User talk:Krystic1

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May 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Outback Zack with this edit, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. The Helpful One 22:43, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Outback Zack

Please keep Outback Zack a redirect to Zach Heart. Only one page is needed. If a person is searching for Outback Zack, it will still show up in the search and redirect the person to the Heart's page. Bgwhite (talk) 23:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I just saw you created two categories. They are also not needed as they aren't suitable categories... Only one entry in each category. Better categories in Heart's page would be like "Australian Actors" or "Conservationist". Usually, the category you are needing has already been created. For example, there are 8700 Australian categories.

Wikipedia can be daunting with all the rules and ways to do things. I've been here 6 years and still learn new things and forget things everyday. If you have a question about anything, please don't hesitate to leave me a message on my talk page. Bgwhite (talk) 23:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Dear Bgwhite, thank you omg we are really having a tough time with wikipedia and commons. Thanks for the advise. We've now been advised that the page for Zack Heart is an orphan and can't work out what links need to be added and where to de-orphan the page. Was it orphaned because of the categories we created? Could you please advise how we de-orphan the page? Thank you.

Regards, Outback Zack Productions (Krystic1 (talk) 00:00, 6 May 2011 (UTC))

talkback

Hello, Krystic1. You have new messages at Bgwhite's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Outback Zack

Category:Outback Zack, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. LeSnail (talk) 21:35, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Zack Heart

Category:Zack Heart, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. LeSnail (talk) 21:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Zach Hart controversy

I also responded on the talk page of Zach Hart. But I'll say it again... I apologize for neglecting the "controversy" over the past few days. I was not doing my job.

I do not believe you are at fault for anything except deleting the controversy section. I have deleted two paragraphs from the section as I don't see that as a controversy. At the moment, I won't delete the other two paragraphs for now as they are not referenced with valid sources. I'll give time for Urban Terrorist to add some before I delete. I think I should do any deleting and not you to avoid conflict of interest.

Urban Terrorist has brought up a valid concern over the referencing. It does need referencing from valid sources...books, newspaper, tv news stories, etc. If you are not comfortable in putting the references in "correct" format, I can do that for you.

Some of the links in the referencing and external links should be removed as it does sound of promotion. An example would be facebook pages. Facebook links shouldn't be added to the external link section unless Zach Hart doesn't have another web presence... such as an "official" personal web page. I'll delete some and re-arrange.

If you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to ask.Bgwhite (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I've found out that User:UrbanTerrorist is the same person as the blogger Wayne Borean. Wayne Borean is the person mentioned in a couple paragraphs of the controversy sections. I have removed another paragraph in the controversy section. I have given him the same warning I gave you about a conflict of interest (COI)... He can edit the page, but be vary careful to remain neutral and use valid sources. You can view what I said on Zack Heart's talk page. Bgwhite (talk) 07:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Note that the paragraph above is not precisely incorrect. I declared early on in the process who and what I was. I would actually change my Wikipedia editor's name if it was possible, however I asked a while back and was told that it isn't. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 15:58, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but I didn't find out until after I wrote the first paragraph. Bgwhite (talk) 18:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

A public statement does not qualify as a 'discovery'. Now if I have been trying to hid it, like that goof ball politician who was taking pictures of his private parts, tweeting them, and hit the wrong button, that would be different. You are an editor. You know how important accuracy is. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 14:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Another minor quibble. When you make a change to a page, please say something about it in the "edit summary" section... it is just above the "save page" button. It helps other when doing a postmortem on what/when/who added something. Bgwhite (talk) 07:53, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Outback Zack's Australian Animal fire Victims Appeal for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Outback Zack's Australian Animal fire Victims Appeal is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outback Zack's Australian Animal fire Victims Appeal until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Bgwhite (talk) 17:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Please note that I have asked for a one week delay in the process due to a family vacation. I had a choice last week. Be on vacation, or be dead. I choose to be on vacation. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 05:03, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Zack Heart for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zack Heart is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zack Heart until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Mesoderm (talk) 05:12, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear Bgwhite, Im not sure where I am suppose to write this. Im sorry for the late reply I have been away only to return to this horrible mess caused by Mr Borean. He has placed a personal attack on Mr Heart, someone he doesn't even know. It was I that requested Mr Borean remove the article from his blog, not the attorney. The attorneys details were there so he could contact him with any questions and if read correctly there was no threat, it was a request as he accused Mr Heart of stealing a name he made up years ago for his travel show. I am new to Wikipedia as you know and have made plenty of mistakes adding information correctly but I'm doing my best. I am making these points because Mr Borean has placed all the citations on the page and forced it to be deleted. It says personal attacks are not allowed on Wikipedia so why has he been allowed to do this? I'm looking at these warning boxes at the top of Mr Hearts page and it says something about close connection & conflict of interest which Mr Borean also created. I'm just a fan and intern does that mean I'm not allowed to add information about him? Bgwhite, when I created this page my intent was to get it up to a stage where it looked ok and was within all the necessary guidelines. What I don't understand is after asking you lots of questions and you helping me, you said that there were enough references with imdb giving more than two,but the page is now up for deletion? This is all very upsetting as its reflected badly on Mr Heart which was never my intention. (Krystic1 (talk) 19:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC))

Actually you are blaming the wrong person here. I only called into question your actions, I didn't file the Articles for Deletion action, and I've actually abstained from taking a position on it, as I said I would. To take part in the Articles for Deletion talk click here. The person you need to complain to about the Article for Deletion being issued is Mesoderm. In regards to your post on my blog, the way you had worded it, I assumed that you were the lawyer, even though the IP address showed up as being in California, no where near the address of record for the law office. Why I should want to talk to a lawyer who is in another country escapes me. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 01:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Krystic1, you have done nothing wrong. Do not worry about anything you have done. UrbanTerrorist (Mr. Borean) has a beef with the way Heart's lawyers have acted about the trademark of his name. With what he has shown, I would have a beef too. However, there are no reliable sources for this and they have been repeatedly removed. The article is up for deletion because an independent editor thinks it doesn't meat the notability requirements. If you can add some more reliable, third-party references to the article, the article won't be deleted. Reliable references would include newspaper, magazine, tv news, or trade publications. The earliest the article could be deleted is Sunday noon, that is UTC−06:00. So, please add them quickly. I personally put up the Outback Zack TV special for the animals up for possible deletion. The consensus was to delete. One time specials are usually not notable unless they are rather huge... think Live Aid. Bgwhite (talk) 06:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear Bgwhite, I've just read everything by all the editors that have written things about Mr Hearts page and its awful. I asked Mr Borean(UrbanTerrorist) to delete his first article blog because its not true what he said about Mr Heart. He thought it was a lawyer, continued his personal attack editing this page and now this page makes Mr Heart look terrible. Mr Borean(UrbanTerrorist) has nothing to do with any of it and its not fair that this person whose a wikipedia editor is allowed to do that because of there own perceptions on something. He said he only called in to question Mr Hearts actions. Thats conflict of interest isn't it & shouldnt be allowed.

I saw that Mr Hearts Outback Zack Animal Appeal is also up for deletion.. He was the only person that did anything for the animals during those fires and he raised half a million dollars giving it all to a foundation. How is that not notable? I'm trying to add references but am struggling with how to do it. I have a pdf newspaper article, urls to tv news clips, articles, celebrity websites etc but cant understand the format they're suppose to be in so they come up in the references area. Could you please show me an example of a url reference? I think its different from just putting a url link after a sentence so it comes up numbered in references is that right? Thanks for your help (Krystic1 (talk) 20:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC))

OK, so let's get this straight. Taking away someone's Facebook and Twitter accounts that they had been using for years is all right. Questioning the right of someone to take away someone else's Facebook and Twitter accounts is not fair. Pretending to be a lawyer and leaving a threatening message on his blog is all right. Having him respond by writing more articles, and then adding those articles to Wikipedia isn't fair. Finding out that the person in question loves fighting with lawyers probably didn't make you any happier. Hell, I don't just love fighting with lawyers, I love fighting with EVERYONE! In this case though I think that I'm leaning towards your side of this. I've been a Wikipedia Editor for a long time, and Wikipedia editors fall into to main camps. I'm what's called an 'Inclusionist', in other words I think we should have as much information as possible. From that point of view I think that Zack Heart, or Nick Simmons, or what ever name he is using this week should be in Wikipedia. However I think that there should be a listing on the page about the Trademark issue. So if you will agree with me on this Krystic1, I will change my vote from 'abstain' to 'keep'. And you should really click here to make your feelings felt as well. My apologies, the first time I made the link there was a minor error :( This one works. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 05:16, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

At this point, don't worry about the format. In the article where you want to put a reference, just do . I can come by later and do the proper format. Bgwhite (talk) 03:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Bgwhite. I have another question;: do I have to put a reference for every piece of information I put on the page? I get the feeling now that I do. I have lots of information about Mr Heart but finding references to a lot of the things is near impossible like his parents and childhood and work he has done around the world. Does this mean I need to delete that which I cannot source? Also, I have a pdf newspaper article about him but the newspapers website doesnt have an operating link to the issue number. Its listed in archives but you cant click on it. What can I do in this situation? Thank you (Krystic1 (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)) :::P.s Could you please vote for this page not to be deleted. Thank you Bgwhite (Krystic1 (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC))

Yes, every piece of information needs a reference. However, at this point adding references to his career is most important. For the newspaper article, what is the name of the newspaper, date written, title of the article and who wrote it? I can add that to the article. Not every newspaper has an on-line version that is viewable, especially for older articles, so putting the article info is appropriate in this case. I do monitor this page when something is written, so you can just write here. I have a conflict of interest, so I shouldn't vote on if the article should or shouldn't be deleted.

I read UrbanTerrorist comments below. I'll copy Heart's article into your userspace. The location will be User:Krystic1/Sandbox. This way, if Heart's article is deleted, you can work on it and re-add the article at a later date. Bgwhite (talk) 00:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Dear Bgwhite, there should be more than enough references now but I will continue adding. The newspaper article details are: The Melbourne Observer, Issue: "Outback Zack" July 15, 2009 - Vol 41 No 1361 - by Di Rolle. Thanks (Krystic1 (talk) 01:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC))

The article was deleted. I saved a copy at User:Krystic1/Sandbox. Add more reliable references and we can see if it is good enough to come back. Some of the references you added aren't reliable or prove he is notable. IMDB and rottentomato comes to mind. BTW, what is Heart doing this year? Is he currently acting or have something planed? Bgwhite (talk) 06:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

As I said, I may have some disagreements with you over the Trademark issue (if you want to see a really wild trademark dispute I'm following but not involved with directly read this one it's pretty insane), but I'm also well aware of how Wikipedia can totally mess over a new editor. There are rules that don't make a lot of sense, rules which it is impossible to find any references to, rule books which apparently don't exist when you look for them, but which are tucked away in odd corners. People like us, who have a life outside of Wikipedia (I'm a writer and publisher) don't have the time to get fully involved, so it tends to get run by volunteers who do have time. They run it any which why that they want, and if it inconveniences us, too bad. I'm going to write about this. In fact this is going to end up in two different articles, one about the Trademark issue which you won't like, and one about Wikipedia which you will like, and which will probably cause another firestorm. Of course I'm used to firestorms. I cause enough of them. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 16:29, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Mr Borean, it is because of what you did to Mr Hearts page that the page was deleted, and now you say you're going advertise that it was deleted with your article accusing Mr Heart of stealing a name... Haven't you done enough damage to Mr Hearts career already?? I implore you, please don't advertise that Mr Hearts page was deleted. This is not for public knowledge and would be further detrimental to Mr Hearts career and saving animals. I now have to build up the courage to tell him that the page is gone.

You need to understand that Mr Heart made up that Outback Zack name years ago for his travel show. As early as 2003 apparently. If you look at that idiots utube channel using the Outback Zack name he didn't appear in or post his first video until 2009. You don't know how wrong you are about that trademark. If anyone stole that name it was the utuber. Mr Hearts company have gone through nothing but hell over it and for them to be called the unethical ones is beyond sad.

All I can say is Im truly upset. If I hadn't written that message to you none of this would have happened. I can only imagine how Mr Heart will feel when he finds out. (Krystic1 (talk) 17:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC))

If Zack Heart did use the name that early the evidence is well hidden. I'm also a trained researcher, and I was not able to find any documentation to back up any use of the Outback Zack name by him any earlier than the date I mentioned in the second article. If the mention was in an off-line publication, then I would not have found it. That is one of the reasons that I added the Zack Heart article to the Australian Television Wikipedia lists, those people would know a lot more about Australian TV and Australian TV personalities than I would, and of course would have access to Australian libraries.

In regards to the page, when you bring it back up, you need to fix the CATEGORIES section. I just took a look at it, and I've added some stuff that looks appropriate based on another Aussie TV actor's page. However you really need to get help from someone with experience in Australian TV actors to make sure that you have the right ones listed. Having the right categories listed will help attract other editors to help fill in the article. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 01:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, just stop it. UrbanTerrorist, please stop writing to Krystic1. You have had an agenda from the beginning and there is no need to rub it in. Sorry but that is what it sounds like. I sympathize with you in the trademark dispute. I don't like it when the small guy in the right and with no lawyer loses every time. I've been in the computer business for over 25 years and see the trademark/patent nonsense all the time. However, the page has been deleted, so please stop bugging Krystic1.

Krystic1, while I don't agree with the tone or tact of UrbanTerrorist, he was not the reason the page was deleted. Lack of reliable reference and what was thought the lack of nobility of Heart. So, don't blame him. Some articles go unnoticed for years that should be deleted and some get caught early, so you will find people that are not nearly as notable as Heart on Wikipedia. (Soccer, musicians and professors are my pet peeves). I've said this before and will say it again, you have done nothing wrong. You did a wonderful job on the article and it was better than 99% of new articles. You have been upfront, honest and as they say in Wikipedia land, acted in good faith. I agree with UrbanTerrorist that "Wikipedia can totally mess over a new editor". It is definitely not easy and there are rules up the ying/yang. You have seen the uglier side and unfortunately it can get uglier. Please contribute to more articles. Please add more stuff to Heart's article. If you feel you have enough in the article that it could be included in Wikipedia, ask me or any editor at the help desk.

If there is one thing I could ask of UrbanTerrorist to write in his blogs, it is how good of a job Krystic1 did.

And to both of you, I apologize for any problems/mistakes/idiotacracy I have done. I have made mistakes. I'm a newbie at this too. While I've been on Wikipedia full time for a year, I've only branched out from my article/janitorial stuff the past three or so months. So please, any wrongdoings I have done and you want to talk about, don't hesitate to leave comments on my talk page. I learn better when somebody tells me why I'm being an idiot. Bgwhite (talk) 06:02, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Far as I'm concerned you did fine. My apologies to Krystic1 if is appears that I've been trying to push my agenda, that wasn't the totally the intention, though I am writing about this. I'm a writer. I write about everything.

Wikipedia is one of the things that I'm writing about now. I think I have enough for five or six articles covering Articles for Deletion, Consensus as a means of building agreements and when it doesn't work, the administration system, Conflict of Interest, the problems that new editors can fall into, etc.

Quite frankly Wikipedia is a mess, and I'll be covering the reasons that it is a mess over the next several weeks. It is going to be fun. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 19:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

What you need to do if you loose the AfD

Considering how mad you are at me I should probably just tell you to go stuff it, but I'm only mad at you over one issue, not everything. So besides the Trademark issue I'm willing to help out a little bit. My suggestions are:

• 1) Keep a backup copy of every version of the page.
• 2) Install a copy of the OpenOffice Office Suite on your computer (it will work with any operating system including Microsoft Windows)
• 3) Install the Sun Wiki Publisher extension into Open Office.
• 4) Keep working on the page. If the page get's killed, keep working on it offline.
• 5) Wait a month or two until you have a lot of stuff added, and bring the page back with a LOT of detail added.
• 6) See if you can get other people involved in Australian TV involved in editing the page.
• 7) Make sure you check in here every day and check your watch list.

As you may have gathered, I have been involved in a similar situation in the past. If the page get's deleted, don't worry about it, just work on it off-line, then bring it back in a bigger and better version. I had to do this three times to get one page to stick. Damned good thing I'm stubborn. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 19:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Krystic1/Zack Heart

User:Krystic1/Zack Heart, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Krystic1/Zack Heart and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Krystic1/Zack Heart during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ricky81682 (talk) 20:36, 3 November 2015 (UTC)