User talk:KainanJoubert

December 2017

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for editing for compensation without proper disclosure, in blatant violation of our Terms of Use.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 18:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

T

H KainanJoubert (talk) 18:24, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

{{unblock|reason=I know CHH artists and collaborators personally}

I was blocked for not citing sources that should be common knowldge based on tweets and Instagram posts made public by rapper Lecrae. I have edited pages before with the knowledge given to me by many of those musicians via text message, phone call, DM, or even face to face conversation. I can’t cite that as a source. The fact that I was blocked because I know these things and have explained myself on numerous occasions and because I posted something out of context two years ago is asinine.

I would like to keep editing, but the tyrannical actions of Walter Görlitz and user Coffee keep me from helping Wikipedia readers be exposed to the correct information. The information may have been directly gotten from billing and crediting, but it could still be wrong. Humans are not without error. Only Christ Himself was.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! KainanJoubert (talk) 18:28, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock Walter Görlitz and Coffee

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

KainanJoubert (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I know many Christian rap and R&B artists, executives, interns, and collaborators personally and can’t cite text messages, phone calls, DMs, or face to face conversation. If there is a way, show me, and I can change that. Otherwise, I will find new ways to edit and make Wikipedia a better place. This violates my free speech and First Amendment rights. It is not slander or libel, obscenity, hate speech, or misinformation. It is correct informationKainanJoubert (talk) 18:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

You are blocked for terms of use violation -- specifically, undisclosed paid editing. You'll need to address that in any future unblock request. You might want to read WP:FREESPEECH while you're at it. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 22:22, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 18:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC) KainanJoubert (talk) 18:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You were not blocked for "slander or libel, obscenity, hate speech, or misinformation". - FlightTime (open channel) 18:43, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an admin and couldn't unblock you if I wanted. Have yourself a merry Christmas. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock

You have the time to comment FlightTime on what I was not blocked for but not to try and help find sources I could credit when I had information that was not citeable. Tell me how cite a source that is a DM, text message, phone call, or in person conversation, and then you won’t get the “bizzare” edits you all have been getting when I add something I found out from a specific person. KainanJoubert (talk) 18:47, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You can't. All those situations fall under WP:OR and is not acceptable content in an Encyclopedia. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock

And anyways, I didn’t say I was blocked because of what was listed by FlightTime. I said it didn’t take away from a Wikipedia reader’s experience and give them misinformation like what is often cited because most Christian Music users don’t have the connections like I do to the music industry and the musicians themselves. KainanJoubert (talk) 18:49, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock, please

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

KainanJoubert (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I was blocked for placing information that I got via direct, provate communication with musicians, collaborators, employees, and other people who have ties to Lecrae, Reach records, and other CHH affiliates. If there is a specific way you want me to edit, show me how then. I have been editing this way for the past two or three years. Why not coach people on a more personal level instead of trying to silence the people that help you do your job correctly. There was misinformation in the liner notes that were adapted and placed on the Lecrae All Things Work Together album page. I fixed it based on the convos I’ve had with some of his collaborators, who I can’t legally reveal for reasons that could affect his future releases with Columbia. Please take what I have said into consideration. Have a merry Christmas and have fun with your families this holiday season.KainanJoubert (talk) 18:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

Only one unblock request is needed at a time. SQL ^{Query me!} 20:52, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Unblock

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

KainanJoubert (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I’ve been using these sources and contributing this way for three years. That’s how I found out the information I did for a number of the songwriters on a lot of CHH albums not released by Reach Records or found in physical booklets. Y’all shoulda said something three years ago and not have allowed my edits. It’s hypocritical to police that way now because others have messed up Wikipedia as a whole. My edits were correct but contained simple errors. They were not mailcious attacks that should’ve been reason for me to be blocked. Why did Coffee actually block me? I didn’t threaten anyone nor did I do any malicious hacking or editing. Malicious editing would be deleting all information. KainanJoubert (talk) 19:25, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

Only one open unblock request is needed at a time. SQL ^{Query me!} 20:53, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

There was no terms of use violation

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

KainanJoubert (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Jpgordon you stated the reason for me being blocked from editing any further documents and articles on Wikipedia was because I broke the TOU is the fact that I partook in undisclosed paid editing. You are in fact, wrong. I did no such think. All of my contributions were unpaid, there was no movement of any funding from one party to another involved in any of my time as a contributor to Wikipedia’s slew of pages surrounding the subgenre of Christian Hip-Hop. It seems that Coffee doesn’t know the difference between a citing error and paid editing accusations. I have been a contributor since the age of 15. I am now 18. I will not stand for this ignorant accusation against me. I did not participate in any paid editing. Just because I know a number of business men and women in the music industry doesn’t mean I’m on someone’s payroll. I am a self-employed small business owner located in Grand Prairie, Texas. I am a senior in high school. Do you really believe I am on someone’s payroll to publish propaganda in an online Encyclopedia? I sinply made minor edits that were incorrect based on the work of the executives in the music industry. If I was on anyone’s payroll, do you really think I would edit the articles adapted from items they have published and declare said items incorrectly cited? I would have caught those edits in the process of album creation and there would be no need for any of my contributions in the past three years. I simply am in a strategic area where many CHH affiliates are located. Please take all of this into consideration in lifting my indefinite block from being a contributor. Next time, I will most definitely cite my sources, all of which will forever be considered pro-bono contributions that do not violate Wikipedia’s terms of usage. I actually take the time out and do my research over long periods of time unlike many of the users accusing me of publishing musical propaganda when they should have checked their own sources and checked what I actually violated in regard to proper terms of usage as a contributor to Wikipedia.KainanJoubert (talk) 01:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

This request has been visible at CAT:RFU for 12 days, and it appears that there isn't an administrator willing to unblock you. If you would like, you can try to make a more convincing unblock request. Please note making the same - or basically the same request may result in losing the privilege to edit this page. On a personal note, comments like "I have your phone number and am willing to speak with you via a recorded phone call" would definitely make me uncomfortable engaging with you. SQL ^{Query me!} 03:47, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

KainanJoubert (talk) 01:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'll need to explain how you are "bound by certain contractual information to not reveal your sources". Why would you be bound by such a contract if it doesn't involve compensation of some kind? (As was pointed out to you, information based on such unrevealable sources, or on unpublished or unreliable sources, violates Wikipedia's policy on verifability and has no place on Wikipedia.) Huon (talk) 02:51, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coffee, beyond that strange "contract" comment I see no indication of paid editing and, after some Google sleuthing, would consider it unlikely. Is there any evidence I'm unaware of? Otherwise I'd unblock, with a reminder to KainanJoubert to base future edits (including typo corrections when that typo itself is based on a source!) on reliable published sources. Huon (talk) 19:34, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Help me out then, Walter

Walter Görlitz Well then review my latest unblock request and at least try and help me. You're edits on my page originally are what sparkedCoffee to block me unfairly. You requested that I add the sources, and I responded that I couldn't because I have to find the tweets, which will take at least a day to do, and he blocked me and accused me of taking paid contributions to publish propaganda when all I was doing was putting Perfekt's birth name correctly, credit Tony Evans and Ekemini Uwan, and fix the John Mitchell link. That is the wrong John Mitchell. The John Mitchell you are looking for is at this link: https://soundcloud.com/johnny_yukon

John "Johnny Yukon" Mitchell is employed as a songwriter for DJ Frank E and previously worked with Lecrae on his song "On My Own" with Leon Bridges. He worked with G-Eazy on a song earlier this year. The page that was linked to the name is technically misinformation.

Help me plead my case. I didn't take any money to edit these pages. I would just start my own CHH encyclopedia and make money. I wouldn't feed the public false facts and fake news. That's tyrannical. Please converse with the admins, Walter. Also, my old post about "white people" was old. I apologize for posting that in my arrogance and ignorance when I was much younger.

Let's Clear This Up Misunderstanding Swiftly and Peacefully

jpgordon would you like to speak over the phone after Christmas in order to clear up this misunderstanding? I have your phone number and am willing to speak with you via a recorded phone call so I can plead my case that way. I'm only 18, so there is no threat. If you want to give me punishment, you could put the expiration time of my suspension until January 01, 2018.

I didn't block you. I declined to unblock you as your request did not bear on the reason for your unblock. I've no further interest in your case. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 05:30, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:52, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Huon

None of the contracts I am bound by involve monetary payment Huon. Most are verbal contracts that are between me and the specific artist or collaborator that I won't reveal any personal information of those musicians or collaborators, just the information I was given if they are my friends. The rest are done through me reporting and doing A&R work to give indie musicians proper credit that they already got paid for. I am in no way benefiting from this financially. That's why I have a job and a business myself. I know when a number of projects in the Christian Hip-Hop realm are releasing over the next year, but I can't divulge who told me what. The only way it would be a contract involving payment would be if I was one of the following.

songwriter
record producer
recording engineer
mastering engineer
mixing engineer
paid intern

I am a musician myself, but none of my monetary contracts involve my contributions to the intellectual community here at Wikipedia.

Please read WP:Paid. Money need not change hands. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so information must meet WP:V and WP:RS. If they are friends, you have a WP:COI. If you are helping out your friends, we are probably pack into WP:PAID. We really don't want and cannot use information given to you by your friends-- see WP:V and WP:RS. My personal take is that you are WP:Nothere. Other admins opinions may vary. Not formally declining block so as to have further input. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you cannot cite who your published, third party sources are, your information cannot be verified and therefore it can not be included on Wikipedia, paid or unpaid. Wikipedia includes content on the basis of verifiability, not truth. "My friends told me" is pretty much the very definition of original research. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:47, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize if I've got the wrong idea, but I have come away with the notion you've mistaken us for Hush-Hush. Nothing here on the "QT", please. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:57, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, looking back at your first unblock request: Wikipedia is a privately-run website; there are no violations of "free speech" or "First Amendment rights" when you are blocked. See WP:FREESPEECH. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Respone

Huon

I understand what I did wrong. If my block is lifted, I will not use information given by my friends via private conversation any longer.

Some of the changes I made were typos like “Wesley Jams” being changed to “Jamal Wesley James” on the Lecrae album page for All Things Work Together. That was something knew off the top of my head after researching for a period of time and asking who was who. I vow to find credible sources if my block is lifted.

No money or payment was ever involved in any of my conversations or edits or contributions. I apologize if my words about contractual agreements and my ties to the music industry caused any confusion or discord. KainanJoubert (talk) 19:14, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disregard my original unblock request

The Bushranger

My original request for unblock was rushed and done out of anger. I didn’t know why exactly I was blocked, so I assumed it was for my errors in citing sources on a few articles, not the editing for compensation accusation based on my words aimed at Walter Görlitz.

The last unblock request was done after reading the Terms of Use for editors and contributors and reading all responses to my posts. I again apolgize for the confusion and having you all doing this on Christmas of all days. KainanJoubert (talk) 19:19, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dlohcierekim

I read through the Wikipedia Nothere link you posted.

My intentions were only to fix errors and provide basic information from a position that is not from a fanatic music listener. This doesn’t give me brownie points or favor with anyone because I could be doing something else with my time, but I would often choose to add factual information that I thought was vital to many of the articles I contributed to.

Most of my recent sources have been reading through album and song credits on specific music posts such as on soundcloud and Youtube artist pages (which the credits are listed in the descriptions for the media posts), but I have been sloppy in the way I had been editing by mot always citing the credible sources I had found to verify my assumptions. I acknowledge that issue and will correct that error in the future and only make contributions that can be verifiable with credible sources. KainanJoubert (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So y’all not gon’ unblock me?

Coffee can you unblock me now that everything has been clarified? Also, Walter Görlitz, the page about Natalie Lauren has incorrect information. The photo and the name of her employers are not correct. KainanJoubert (talk) 18:54, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

SQL

JPgordon put his name and the city he is from on his user page. You can find someone’s hometown and even their phone number in public records. I’m 18 years old. The notion that a grown man is threatened by that is silly. Phone books and friends across the country still exist. I’ve find my grandparents’ information online. Plus, Coffee blocked me. They have yet to respond at all after my unblock request has been reviewed by Huon and a few other admin I have dialogued with and pleaded my case to and they said it was a misunderstanding because of my contract comment, which was just that future info about albums I can’t reveal unless it’s revealed with a citable source. My edits without adding a citation was a one time incident as my phone doesn’t allow multiple tabs to be open. KainanJoubert (talk) 14:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This page hadn't been edited by an admin in nearly 2 weeks - hence my close. If @Huon: or @Coffee: would like to unblock you, they still can - this request will simply no longer be listed at CAT:RFU (Unless / until you make another request). And do yourself a favor - drop the "I can't believe you feel threatened by an 18 year old" shtick. It's ridiculous on it's face. SQL ^{Query me!} 02:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock Request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

KainanJoubert (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I did not partake in any paid editing. My comment about contractual agreements was not related to any edits prior to my block. It was referring to how the music industry works when it comes to crediting musicians and how the information I come upon through casual conversation can’t be disclosed or confirmed by me until the musician or their affiliates does so themselves. Coffee I apologize for the confusion behind my original statement to Walter Görlitz in regard to my rejected edit on the page All Things Work Together.KainanJoubert (talk) 01:12, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Accept reason:

Coffee is still on holiday and hasn't replied, but the above explanation is consistent with the available evidence. I'm sorry it took this long to get this sorted out; I apologize for the inconvenience. I would, however, like to emphasize again that information that cannot be verified from reliable published sources such as newspapers or reputable magazines has no place on Wikipedia. Huon (talk) 03:10, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

KainanJoubert (talk) 01:12, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just got back online here in the states. Thank you @Huon: for handling this as promptly as you could. And thank you KainanJoubert for clarifying your statement. It is highly appreciated. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:32, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]