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The Signpost: 5 August 2017

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:20, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Hastings, Michigan and Thornapple Arts Council Jazz Festival

I saw your comment about my addition of the Thornapple Arts Council Jazz Festival to the entry on the city of Hastings, Michigan, USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hastings,_Michigan&action=edit&oldid=793999458

I'm not sure I follow your suggestion that I include secondary sources to show that it's been noticed elsewhere. I'm not proposing the festival for its own entry on Wikipedia. I'm only suggesting that it's a significant cultural event in the community and therefore is relevant for an entry on the community. I can find additional sources to indicate that it does exist, if that's what you're looking for. Thanks for your time.

Jkaczmarczyk (talk) 17:47, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Indiana high school enrollments

Hi John. You left a message on my talk page about me changing enrollments. My actual account is Mlammf; I was just too lazy to log in so I just used the IP when doing some changes (I saw you asked on the talk page for that account so I'm letting you know). I have only edited using this IP and Malmmf, however, so I do not know who the other IP's editing the school pages are. When I first updated enrollments, I saw it was reverted for no source. So, I went back and added a source (IHSAA). I did not realize that the IHSAA was not a reliable/good source for enrollment, which was why I didn't ask any questions. I was simply trying to keep the the enrollments as updated as possible; I apologize. I did not mean for my edits to come across as vandalism. I have gone through and reverted my changes for as many school's I remember updating. However, I would like to update the enrollments with a good source. Am I understanding right that the IDOE is a good source for me to use while updating enrollments? If so, I would like to continue updating. I would do it log in as Malmmf, however.

Another question off topic from Indiana schools- I would like to gradually update enrollments from high schools in California, Florida, Georgia, Texas, and Wisconsin, as well as Indiana. Is the state's athletic association enrollment a poor source no matter what state it is? For CA, FL, GA, TX, and WI, should I use NCES to update enrollments? (Hope I am putting this message in the correct place? Have edited for a while, just my first time writing on a talk page)

70.198.66.124 (talk) 11:49, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

This is OK, but it would have been better to reply on your talk page. Also, please sign in. From what you're said, you've posted to those Indiana pages from 3 separate IP addresses and your account. One of the IP addresses was blocked for not stopping when they were warned. The block has lapsed now, but if you would made edits from your account while it was blocked, your account would have been blocked for a long duration for block evasion.
To clarify what I said on the talk pages you were using, do not use Athletics bodies for attendance. In most states NCES is preferred. Indiana gives the same numbers in their website but a year newer, so I can see the arguments for using Compass. Also, please format your references. I'll leave instructions on your talk page. Thanks John from Idegon (talk) 23:40, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
It's me. OK, I will long in from now on. I only edited from this account and the IP above. So, I am good to update enrollment's using NCES and Indiana's using Compass? I just want to make sure because I don't want to mess anything up again lol. I'll read tips on formatting references. Thanks Malmmf (talk) 07:50, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Newbury Park

Hi, I see you have removed a few of my contributions to the Newbury Park article. Why is that? I wondered if we at least can add the table of historical populations, it had sources from the website of US Census and was good content as far as I could see. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:634E:5E00:81E7:FD24:A225:D28F (talk) 20:52, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Can you help?

Can you help me keep track of this guy's edits here? He keeps messing up the wikilinks so that they go to disambiguation pages and renaming schools to suit his own personal preferences (e.g., Saint vs. St.), which also messes up the links. Thanks for any help. 32.218.35.229 (talk) 18:27, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

You are a good sport

I am also irritated by the length of my talk page and will put it's archiving up a notch on my to do list. How about if I go back to the Idaho town and change the section title to: "Notable living entities from ..." No, that wouldn't be a good idea. What if there is scary patch of mushrooms...you did the right thing. Best Regards, Bfpage (talk) 00:27, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

You are a funny lady, but I already knew that. Interacting with you is always a pleasure. We miss you at Teahouse. Personally, I just cut/paste archive the 1st of every month. The automatic thingies are too much trouble. An aside, yes your squirrel picture is incorrect. We have mostly common grey squirrels here, a few black ones, with a handful of common reds, but no long eared varieties. The little devils do interbreed, and the results can be interesting. We also have a fair number of pure white squirrels, something I've never seen elsewhere. You're probably not going to like this, but I pay close attention to squirrels as for a couple years in my younger days, the little buggers were my primary source of protein. They're really easy to shoot especially in the winter and make a pretty good stew. John from Idegon (talk) 00:54, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Edits on Park Tudor School and Brebeuf Jesuit Prepatory School

I made these edits due to the same type of sentence on another private school's page. Maret School's page has the same sentence. This is not my own opinion. Both of these schools are known to be elite private schools in their cities, and that is something I believe the wikipedia community should know. Otherwise, we are not giving readers the full story, as they could miss this important point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccergy (talk • contribs) 15:44, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

You cannot give an opinion in Wikipedia's voice, period. What is on other articles is irrelevant to any other articles and does not justify your actions. Yes there is a lot of crap on Wikipedia. That in no way justifies adding more. Even with a source, or a few sources, it is likely that you would never get consensus to add an opinion on a school's article, as for every source that states a school is prestigious or notable (a word that has a specific meaning on Wikipedia and should never be used as an adjective), or whatever, there is a source that doesn't say that. It is a violation of one of our most important policies, WP:NPOV, and trust me, if you do it again there will most likely be consequences. Adding opinion is not what this is for and your additions are purely disruptive. Each and every addition you make to this encyclopedia needs to be a paraphrasing of what an already published reliable source says. Everything. No one cares about your opinion, or mine. Please sign all your talk page comments by typing four tildes at the end. Thank you. John from Idegon (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Brian Brushwood Lives in Austin

Hi, John: You and I have been having a little back-and-forth regarding whether or not Brian Brushwood lives in Austin, Texas. I hold no animosity toward you and in fact, respect your efforts to make Wikipedia as accurate and reliable as possible. Rather than repeatedly changing each other's edits on the List of people from Austin, Texas page, I suggest we communicate directly with each other until we agree on what the evidence shows. With that in mind, I submit 2 sources for your consideration: #1 is Brushwood's own Twitter page

[1]

where he gives his location as Austin. #2 is Brushwood's LinkedIn page on which he does the same:

[2]

I hope these references are helpful to you, fellow Oregonian.DaKine (talk) 01:19, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/shwood
  2. ^ https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-brushwood-320b7a62
Those would be fine sources if this were social media or a publicity rag for Z - list celebrities. It's not. Pretty much, if you cannot find a reliable secondary source that has reported he lives in Austin, for our purposes, he doesn't. It isn't our job to disseminate information for the subjects we write about, it is our job to report on what has been written about them. John from Idegon (talk) 01:39, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Thank you John from Idegon, I understand your statement and agree with it. You've clearly put in a lot of time and energy on Wikipedia and I salute you for it. BTW, I am a 66 year old grandpa who believes there is far too much gender bias and mistreatment of females by males in the world (as well as on Wikipedia)and I support and work with efforts to change that. It can only change if men and women both work to change it. I wish you well and hope you have a great day.DaKine (talk) 17:22, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Dyer, Indiana

Excuse me, but I made edits on the town dyer indiana, a town in the Chicago metropolitan area. All the other towns in the region have stats about how close they are to Chicago and what they border in such on the first paragraph but dyer didn’t so I made adjustments but you changed them. I don’t feel like adding things that people need to know is “vandalism”. So if you could please change so I can put what I said or at least change it your self that would be great. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.188.251.156 (talk) 17:03, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

@99.188.251.156: If you had said something about the other towns in the region having stats about how close they are to Chicago and what they border on in the first paragraph but not Dyer in your reason(s) for editing, there would have been no problem. I still don't think that's very encyclopedic but since there's precedent... –Skywatcher68 (talk) 18:59, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't operate on precedent at all. It operates on consensus which is informed by policy guidelines and sources. A LEDE is supposed to consist of an introductory sentence identifying the subject, and a summary of the rest of the article. Geographic relative placement is sometimes included as part of the summary, but it should only be included if it is discussed elsewhere in the article with sources. The term "bedroom community" is a totally unsourced statement. And nothing whatsoever was labeled "vandalism". Since this thread seems to have attracted some attention, I'll be heading it and placing it properly. Further discussion of this matter should be at the article talk page. John from Idegon (talk) 19:52, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Actually, not everything in the lead needs to be in the article proper. If the geographical info is simple and there's nothing more to say about it, and it's the sort of thing that should be in the lead to "orient" the reader, then it might be in the lead only. For example, the lead might say, "Happy Valley is a western suburb of Bigcity, on the southern shore of Limpid Lake and immediately east of Smallville" without any of that being repeated later. (Of course, in this case it would need to carry a cite in the lead.) EEng 20:18, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
EEng#s, the edit in question contained specific distances which were uncited and appeared from my experience as a 21 year resident of that area to be incorrect. The floating IP (see below) also edit warred over the edit to the point the article was protected. And all this belongs at the article talk, including the unsourced edit requests below. John from Idegon (talk) 21:17, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
That being said, I have 0 objection to including copy about Dyer being an Indiana suburb of Chicago. John from Idegon (talk) 21:20, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I should have been clearer that I wasn't talking about this specific article. I just wanted to emphasize that not everything in the lead has to be elsewhere in the article, since this is a common misconception. (It's my female compassion, you see.) EEng 22:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm not going to be allowed to forget that, am I? :D. John from Idegon (talk) 01:33, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Don't worry, I give time off for good behavior. EEng 02:23, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I know. Meant that I would have left it alone and let those more knowledgeable, such as yourself, handle it given that other articles have similar info. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 07:43, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Meanwhile...

Can you please add stats about how close it is to Chicago — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:B:9:0:0:0:7A (talk) 20:53, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Because right now it says nothing about chicago — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:B:9:0:0:0:7A (talk) 20:56, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Provide a properly written and sourced edit request on the article's talk page and please stop posting here. John from Idegon (talk) 21:17, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Listen here John from Idegon. I have been trying to make edits on Dyer Indiana for months now and you keep changing them. How about you just leave this article alone and just move on to another one. And this time actually respond to me like a man instead of telling me to go on the article. Sorry for being salty I just need to get my point accross — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsnovak (talk • contribs) 02:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia! Need a hand?

Teahouse logo
Hello, John from Idegon! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! John from Idegon (talk) 10:23, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Welcoming yourself to Wikipedia... has it come to this? EEng 03:41, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
I access the net via a phone.... missed the button I intended to hit and haven't gotten around to removing the dregs. Although there is a Teahouse invite somewhere waaay back in the archives. I'd have bailed about a week in otherwise. Thanks to Sarah Streich. Not sure what she's using for a handle these days. John from Idegon (talk) 03:57, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

"An affluent"

Hi John, the editor who made this edit has added "affluent" to about 100+ articles. I'd like to leave a note on the editor's talk page. Do you recall a consensus someplace regarding the use of "affluent" in US city articles? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:29, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Appears to be a vandal. I've reported. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:56, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Could have been worse: could have been effluent. EEng 04:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Most additions of "affluent" are "effluent".John from Idegon (talk) 04:19, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

You are cordially invited to join my glittering salon of talk page stalkers. EEng 04:23, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Your kind invitation is yet another display of your feminine sensitivities and warmly accepted. It appears you have already joined mine. John from Idegon (talk) 04:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
You want a punch in the nose, buster?[FBDB] EEng 05:15, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Citing this page

Hi John, I am trying to make an "Athletics" part to the Lee's Summit West article because I think it would make it much better and more superior to other high school pages. I have tried a lot of different things to cite the information but it keeps getting removed. I would like to know if www.mshsaa.org is a reliable source for the information. It is the website for the association that the high school is in. E do JRF21023 (talk) 01:13, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi, JRF21023. First off, Wikipedia isn't a competition. We do give articles a "grade", but that grade is about the quality of the article, not the school. The school's quality is not reflected in any way by the article's grade. It reflects how complete the article is and several objective style criteria. Since the completeness of the article relates 100% to how much has been written about the school, it is not really something that can be improved beyond a certain point. Almost all the best school articles are about schools that have existed for hundreds of years. Keep in mind that the article about this school on Wikipedia is not owned by nor is it in any sense for the school.
Now to answer your question: yes, the state sanctioning body is a fine source for athletic achievement. Keep in mind we do not talk about any of the following: Individual students or staff, achievement less than the highest (ie, state championship), results of individual games, seasons or series, individual achievement, schools kids have gone on to. Please take a look at some other articles for formatting tips. Most of the schools in Northern Indiana are done well.
A couple other tips: if you must, a listing of sports offered can be sourced to the school, although an independent source such as the sanctioning body is preferred. Make sure to indicate what sports are offered to both boys and girls, which are offered to only one sex and any that have coed teams. Limit discussion to varsity interscholastic sports. If any are sanctioned by a body other than the MSHSAA, be sure to name (not just the acronym) the organization and provide a reference link to it. Before claiming a state championship in a non MSHSAA sport, the sanctioning body has to be the only one in the state. Otherwise all you can say is you won "XXX" state rugby tournament. Any other questions, please come back. And you are encouraged to work on other Missouri (or any states) schools. Missouri is quite underrepresented in regular school article editors. John from Idegon (talk) 02:17, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for the help but I have one last question. Is it okay if I include district or conference championships if the sport doesn't have any state championships? For example baseball, they don't have any state championships but they are state runner-ups and have some district titles. Is it okay to include those? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JRF21023 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
No. The school has state championships. We've discussed allowing state runner-ups for schools having no championship banners. But this school does. John from Idegon (talk) 04:00, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Under good judgment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I understand your concern under good judgement but I am asking him and I am not challenging him I just want him to fallow all the rules we do just because he is a administrator dose not mean he might get special treatment regarding the rules 

 Colored (talk) 23:58, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
His username does not violate any rule. Honestly, don't you think someone would have pointed it out sometime since 2009? A user with less than 100 edits should spend 100% of their time editing and no time trying to enforce behavioral guidelines. You're not doing yourself any favors. A better case could be made for objecting to your own username than his. John from Idegon (talk) 00:32, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Barnstar of Integrity

The Barnstar of Integrity
In recognition of your recent courage to raise an issue, that most would avoid. Thank you. An award not to be taken lightly; this is the first barnstar I've given out in my almost 12 years here!

Nfitz (talk) 20:11, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Wow...I am truly honored. Be well. This is the one stretch during the year that I have my darling 5 year old son full time, so I haven't been able to reply to you yet. It will be forthcoming. John from Idegon (talk) 20:34, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
No problem! Mine's about to turn 5. Nfitz (talk) 23:01, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Primary school notability

Hi John. I am wondering if you have any advice on how to best assess the notability of a primary/elementary/grade school such as Yarra Valley Grammar. WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES does mention something about this, but I am aware that there were some recent discussions about this and I am not sure if a change has been made. I've been trying to find some sources for the YVG article using WP:GNG/WP:ORG as my guide, and have found some things about the school in the Sydney Morning Herald such as this and this, but they appear to be more of advertisement/PR piece (perhaps submitted/written by someone connected to the school) than something written/vetted by the newspaper itself. The article has been around for more than 10 years and it has been pretty much unsourced for the entire time. It also appears to have been filled with lots of fluff and other PR type content added by various SPAs and IPs as well (this has been slowly removed over the past few days). Still, the question is whether this school is notable enough for a stand-alone article or should be redirected/merged via AfD per SCHOOLOUTCOMES. Are there approaches to try an establish a school's notability in addtion to simply searching online for articles about said school? -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Marchjuly. I think you are mistaken about this being what we would call in the US a primary school. I believe in Australia, grammar school is sometimes used for multi level diploma granting schools. That is what this appears to be. If I'm wrong, please educate me! If I'm right, of course it's notable. Perhaps you'd be better off asking Kudpung. He's far more familiar with schools around the world. My area is US and Canada. John from Idegon (talk) 02:02, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. I was operating under the assumption that grammar meant grades 1-6/7/8 as in the US. I am not familiar with Australian schools and Kudpung has been cleaning up the article a bit, so perhaps it is indeed a "multi level diploma granting school". -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:02, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi, Marchjuly, a grammar school is the direct equivalent of a high school or secondary school that educates up to Grade 12 (or the final year of secondary education depending on the country). Traditionally in the UK and its Commonwealth countries (former colonies), a grammar school can be either an independent or a government/state school but what sets it apart is that entrance is selective by exam, and traditionally the curriculum focuses on academic rather than vocational education. In the British English speaking word, a primary school is the direct equivalent of a US elementary school - the difference is purely linguistic. Middle School in the US and UK means the same thing although there are very few local education authorities left in the UK that still practice the three-tier education system. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:24, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Understand and thanks for the clarification. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:21, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Birmingham, Alabama

I'm not getting that edit either. The claim is vague and non-specific, and the source is not available. Could I suggest you start a discuss there? Magnolia677 (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Johnny Damon

Why isn't Johnny Damon listed under notable alumni? He's in the sports section as an Outfielder for the MLB?! He has at least two World Series championships under his belt!!

I grew up with and know most of these people and I really think JD deserves more than what's on the Dr. Phillips Wiki page! SoniaMasmoudi (talk) 08:57, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Minnehaha Academy

Recently I added much needed information to the Minnehaha Academy page to bring it into line with the information available on every other page about other Minnesota Prep Schools. These changes were removed by you, without any solid explanation. Additionally, it appears updated information on recent state victories and publication awards were removed. It also seems that you have somehow changed the formatting back to everything being under history heading as opposed to multiple headings like any other page. I realize how one sentence was in error of policy and I apologize for that but the other edits seem like they could have stayed.

Mregan1913 (talk) 17:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


Mregan1913 (talk) 16:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Content is decided on consensus. There are guidelines as to how a school article should be written. These guidelines represent a broad community consensus and shouldn't be deviated from without a solid reason. Encyclopedias are tertiary by nature. That means that all but the most mundane and indisputable information must come from sources independent of the school. Content disputes are to be discussed in the article's talk page. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, this is not like social media. The article about the school on Wikipedia does not in any sense belong to the school, nor is it for the school. As far as the content of the article (it isn't a page - see previous) in question, what exists in other articles is completely irrelevant. If you wish to carry this conversation forward, do so in the article's talk page. By the way, Mregan1913, what is your connection to the school? John from Idegon (talk) 17:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Recent Alumni and student for all 14 years preK-grade 12, served as a student representative for centennial affairs in 2013...now at university studying history and political science...leaving for law school soon. I will move to article's talk page as you suggested, and I just figured I should answer your question.

Mregan1913 (talk) 17:39, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Mregan1913 (talk) 17:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I asked because it isn't uncommon for private schools to attempt to hijack the school's Wikipedia article for publicity purposes, and editing by someone being financially compensated for it is limited by the terms of use for Wikipedia. Some of the content like you have added is promotional. You will find the school article guidelines at WP:SCH/AG. You should read them prior to posting at the talk page. Probably should read WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:ILIKEIT too. It will save you and others time by avoiding arguments that will never go anywhere. Thanks, Mregan1913. John from Idegon (talk) 18:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
One other thing...my connectivity is very limited until Tuesday. I live in a small community in the path of totality for the eclipse and we are flooded with visitors, stressing the cell towers to the max. Please be patient. John from Idegon (talk) 18:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

sorry for that, and thank you for pointing out my mistakes. Minnehaha Academy did not pay me to make the edits, I did it on my own because I felt there was information that could have been added, certainly taking your suggestions to heart for any future changes.

Mregan1913 (talk) 22:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

OHS Wikipedia Edit

Hi! How can I ensure that you and others won't edit out my wikipedia edit? I recently edited this page, adding "Jean Pagaduan: Emoji Movie Activist" under Notable Alumni. It's a popular inside joke among the school. The entire school and staff are in on it and would like to keep it up on that page. Please don't edit it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Revengefortheemojis (talk • contribs) 23:56, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Revengefortheemojis, the only way to ensure the content you've added multiple times is not removed is to not add it. You have a very misguided notion of what an article about a school on Wikipedia is. It does not belong to the school, it is not for the school and it isn't a joke. Don't add it again. John from Idegon (talk) 00:16, 21 August 2017 (UTC)


Procedure for High School Pages

I'm confused about your edits and removal of edits regarding high schools and why I am reverting some of your deletions to Henry Clay High School . Other Wikipedia pages regarding high schools within the state of Kentucky, such as St. Xavier High School (Louisville), the Carol Martin Gatton Academy of Mathematics and Science in Kentucky or Trinity High School (Louisville) have references that site the school itself and to some degree could be considered self-promotional. It does not make sense to remove an entire section about a school that provides factual information. Perhaps the best example of this is the page of Paul Laurence Dunbar High School (Lexington, Kentucky) which provides information about the magnet program there that references the school itself. It is completely arbitrary to remove content from one page for specific reasons and not to do the same for analogous pages. Lessconfusedthanbefore (talk) 05:26, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes it is. Doesn't change a thing. Your image is still a copyright violation, which when uploading you flat out lied and said it was your property. I do not have to edit ANY other article to fix this one. Provide reliable sources independent of the school, leave out your puffery and do not replace it without better sources. I love it how you show up here today and think that you know more about this than I do. We are not talking about any other article than this one. You do not at this time have consensus to make the new addition you added. Content is decided by consensus. Learn how to discuss it then go to the article talk page and attempt to form a consensus. I would not suggest re-adding it until you do. And next time you approach another editor, do not act like you have the right to add whatever you want. There are a lot of policies guidelines presidents and traditions here you know nothing of. How about assuming some good faith that those who have done this more than once do? John from Idegon (talk) 05:39, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Without being condescending or dismissive, what would we need to decide on before we reach consensus regarding this page? There is information that is a core component of the school and it seems that we just need to have a discussion about the appropriate form for this content to appear. In my most recent edit I had removed information from the school website. I think it is important to look at other pages as a guide for the appropriate nature by which to include relevant and important information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lessconfusedthanbefore (talk • contribs) 06:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

You have all the answers. You figure it out. Do not post here again. I'll be happy to discuss this with you tomorrow afternoon in the article's talk page. You've been given plenty of information. Digest it and discuss it on the article's talk page. There's no deadline here. I'm glad to help someone who will listen. Obviously that is not you. Don't replace your content without discussion. I'm an interested party and I'm telling you now I'm not going to miss seeing the only total eclipse of the sun my son and I will be able to share because you cannot bother to listen when someone with more experience tells you something. I'll deal with this tomorrow night. John from Idegon (talk) 06:21, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I will move all of my arguments and proposed edits to the talk page and wait for us to reach consensus. During this process, I would like to make a request. Please cut out the condescension. Calling someone "a kid" does nothing to improve the quality of the content, only to bolster an inflated sense of worth. I personally do not live in Kentucky, despite your assumption, but our personal lives or opinions should have no affect on an individual page. Singling out an individual and ridiculing them does nothing to promote a healthy exchange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lessconfusedthanbefore (talk • contribs) 06:32, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I'm soooooo sorry. I meant to say illiterate adult not from Kentucky. You have a very difftime with simple English. So, I'll repeat it again. Do not post here again. Kannst du English? John from Idegon (talk) 06:44, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Pro-White Supremacy Edits to Robert E. Lee High School

Hey John, your recent edit which used language which violates NPOV policy was not appropriate. As you are not an expert on the topic, it would be appreciated if you refrained from future such edits without first going to the talk page. Sahrin (talk) 23:06, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

@Sahrin: Are you referring to this edit? Ian.thomson (talk) 23:20, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Sahrin, ignoring your WP:ABF comment for the time being, I removed the entire bit. I did not reinstate any racist language, but instead correctly removed the entire thing as a violation of one of the pillar policies of Wikipedia, WP:NOT. Now, what exactly do you think it is I require expertise in? John from Idegon (talk) 23:49, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Hey, Ian, did I miss something here? This blew in the window and right back out the door.John from Idegon (talk) 08:25, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
I was trying to figure out what he was talking about. That was the only edit of Sahrin's at a Robert E. Lee High School article that you've also edited that I could find. I assumed that they were confused, because that's the edit Sahrin reverted, not your actual edit (which bore no relation to Sahrin's accusations regarding your editing). Ian.thomson (talk) 11:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Hastings, Michigan and Thornapple Arts Council Jazz Festival

I saw your comment about my addition of the Thornapple Arts Council Jazz Festival to the entry on the city of Hastings, Michigan, USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hastings,_Michigan&action=edit&oldid=793999458

I'm not sure I follow your suggestion that I include secondary sources to show that it's been noticed elsewhere. I'm not proposing the festival for its own entry on Wikipedia. I'm only suggesting that it's a significant cultural event in the community and therefore is relevant for an entry on the community. I can find additional sources to indicate that it does exist, if that's what you're looking for. Thanks for your time.Jkaczmarczyk (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I would suggest you start a discussion on the article talk page. At least two editors are opposing inclusion of this info, so I am at a loss as to why you keep posting here. We do not write settlement articles for the locals. If there is nothing to indicate it has been noted elsewhere, it doesn't belong. Wikipedia is not to publicize things and we are not a guidebook. These are part of our pillar policies. John from Idegon (talk) 20:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

August 2017

Information icon Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Sb2001 talk page 21:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Gee, thanks Sb2001! Yet another ignorant comment. Referring to your ignorant comments as ignorant is commenting on the content not the contributor. I am not going to be coy here at all: STAY OFF MY TALK PAGE. Leaving twinkle warnings is not required; there is nothing forcing you to demonstrate by action your misunderstanding of the policy WP:NPA. Any further posting by you on my talk page outside of policy required notifications (which your misapplied twinkle warnings are NOT) will be construed as harassment and dealt with appropriately. I do not need your ignorant advice. Anyone who would advise one of our most senior administrators to use AfC has nothing to say that I would waste my time reading. Have a good life; somewhere else. I expect no reply. Tell someone who cares. John from Idegon (talk) 22:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Stalkers

They fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. One would have been good enough, but I didn't quite think I'd kill two birds with one stone. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:49, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Ohio Valley Athletic Conference

I'm looking at Magnolia High School (West Virginia). It has championship listings for both the state-level WVSSAC and the Ohio Valley Athletic Conference. The OVAC includes schools from parts of both Ohio and WV. I'm not sure how they determine who goes to the states' finals when the conference has schools from both states, but it looks like we should treat the OVAC titles as lower lever titles. Have you any experience with multi-state conferences? Meters (talk) 03:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

State tournaments and conferences have no correlation. At least in the states I'm most familiar with, one of which is Ohio. Every team in the state participates in a bracketed single elimination tournament. Wrestling is handled differently in some states, Ohio included. If the school is in West Virginia, it will be in the WV state tournament. The conference championship is unrelated (and unencyclopedic). John from Idegon (talk) 03:40, 24 August 2017 (UTC)


Discussion at Talk: List of cities in Illinois

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk: List of cities in Illinois. See how I reviewed the move. I have reviewed it. Todd (talk) 14:27, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Confused, why did you move it back from municipalities to cities? It's an unusual close (editor participated in the discussion and closed it in favor of what he wanted), but since it's unanimous and hardly a big policy discussion, I don't think it's a big enough deal to revert the merge. Nyttend (talk) 22:59, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Primarily, because the highly over-eager new editor who was involved that closed it didn't even have enough experience to realize he shouldn't be closing it or even to know it was called closing it. Secondary reason the clear consensus was to merge two pages into a third, not to simply move the one page. I'll certainly defer to your greater experience, but I think letting a close made by an editor that clearly doesn't even know how to !vote should be allowed to stand. Dude has less than 100 edits total. Showing my ignorance, isn't there more to be done besides simply moving this page? John from Idegon (talk) 23:21, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Nyttend, all that having been said, I'll be happy to snow close it as a three way merge and leave it to you to carry out. At least I know the difference between a close and a snow close and a merger and a page move. Lemme know. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 23:33, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I see what you mean, and that makes sense; I misunderstood you to be in active opposition to the idea of closing as "merge", which is why I was a good deal confused. I figured that his idea was to move the cities list and then we'd merge the contents of the towns-and-villages list into it; this is what I would have done in his place. I've already added a "type" column to the city table and added a "city" entry in this column for each city. Both the towns and the villages had a different kind of table, so I've reformatted the towns table, making it ready to merge. The villages list, having nearly 1,000 entries, is taking a good deal longer. Would you mind moving the towns into the cities list? It should be really easy, since no towns are county seats, and no towns straddle county lines. Nyttend (talk) 00:07, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
Would if I could, but I edit nearly exclusively from my phone. The earliest I'd have enough time on an actual computer will be Wednesday or Thursday nite. If you haven't done it by then I will. If you can do the deletions, I'll close the discussion again and move it again. My confusion on process involves the histories. Do we just cover them by notation or is there some obscure process you mop holders must perform? John from Idegon (talk) 00:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
I've finished re-tabling the items. Since the collection of municipality name, population, and county is simple facts, and the arrangement is unoriginal, and since I've created a completely new method of displaying it, I'm not moving anything from the towns and villages list (except the towns chart, which I did myself), so there's no need to do any attribution in this specific case. At the moment, there are three separate sections, one for each municipality type; I'll be merging those into one table in a bit. Nyttend (talk) 02:52, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
Merge discussion closed move done again. Sorry if I convoluted this unnecessarily. John from Idegon (talk) 03:41, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

High school football

I noticed you tagging this. I've done some work on the new section but this talk page traffic is turning into a giant time suck. The IP is finally on the talk page but it really seems like a WP:CIR issue. Just no idea about sourcing, OR, Synth, etc. Meters (talk) 05:07, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

The tag was a result of a quick review. Noticed the discussion on your talk which led to the article talk which made my eyes spin in their sockets like an old Loony Toons cartoon character. The section you're in was bad enough, but this is an article where there has been no serious attempt at creating an encyclopedia article ever. Since there is a current discussion in the talk, this isn't an option here, but what I do when I find a school article like that is archive the talk, add a message as to what an encyclopedia is and isn't, and then pare the article down to what the sources support. Which in this article wouldn't even come down to "High school football is a game played by school children with an oblong spheroid." John from Idegon (talk) 15:01, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Criser

Hello John -- I had no intent to let the PROD go to its conclusion. The point of the tag is to get some research and references. Otherwise the article is as useful as my stories of waiting at the school bus stop 1965-66 with a black kid who went to another school. Without some facts, the story is shrugged off. Same here. Your logic, as in Indiana, is not to offend anyone. Here's my prediction: no one does anything. What do you think will get people to bring some references? Rhadow (talk) 17:59, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The purpose of a PROD is deletion. My suggestion would be to write notices on the appropriate WikiProject talk pages. I put it in the category "School articles needing immediate attention", but I doubt that is watched much. I really don't understand your comment here fully. I'm one of the coordinators of WikiProject schools and that's why I removed the PROD. There are undoubtedly sources as I outlined on the talk page. When an editor adds a user box to their user page, most put the user page in a category. Perhaps looking at Category:Wikipedians in Virginia may give you some ideas on particular editors to reach out to for help. John from Idegon (talk) 18:27, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


Oh yeh! Smack me around in front of the class if you think it will help. You are right. The local newspapers don't invest in microfilm or digitization. I desperately want some old articles from the Charlottesville Daily Progress. I'll have to drive there if I want to see them. I found some interesting sources online:

  • Applications for historic landmark designation
  • University library collections[1]
  • First-person accounts given to a newspaper reporter[2]
  • Court orders[3]


References

  1. ^ Gilliam, George. "Interview with Judge Barry Marshall". Virginia Center for Digital History, University of Virginia. Retrieved 26 August 2017.
  2. ^ Keelor, Josette (Oct 17, 2014). "Classmates recall divided schools". Northern Virginia Daily. Retrieved 29 August 2017.
  3. ^ "Griffin v State Board of Education". E.D.Va. March 9, 1965. Retrieved 29 August 2017. 239 F. Supp. 560 (1965)

Thanks for jumping in. Rhadow (talk) 18:49, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Please add them to the article. You might want to look at the VHSL webpage for references to the school. Something about its name sticks in my head, and that probably means they had a powerhouse athletic program. John from Idegon (talk) 18:56, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Recent Edit to Skyline High School (Idaho)

Just curious, why did you revert my edit? It was factual, and relevant information. Plus, i currently attend school here. I think a student is the best reference.Bad1987 (talk) 05:59, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

You thought wrong. If you add it again you will undoubtedly be blocked. This isn't Facebook. No one cares what you know. Content here must be verifiable and conform to policies. Neither is true for your additions John from Idegon (talk) 06:05, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
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