This is an archive of past discussions about User:Jenova20. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hi, Jenova. I'm wondering what you'd think about trying a different approach here. Suppose the several of us who keep finding ourselves drawn into the discussion were to make a conscious decision to stop responding, say, for a month and give the editor in question every possibility of having an unimpeded, undistracted window of opportunity to look for the evidence we keep requesting. If a month goes by and no evidence is presented, I think we can safely label the discussion closed per consensus. Any renewed, unsupported allegations after that time could be dealt with appropriately, should that be necessary. Clearly the way we're going about things now isn't working, and this cannot be allowed to go on indefinitely. I'd like to see something approaching a happy ending for everyone involved, but my crystal ball is forecasting something else entirely the way things are developing. Obviously, my idea could be thwarted by various circumstances beyond anyone's control, such as disruption to the article itself, but I think it might be worth a try. If you agree, we can run this by the other editors who keep responding and see what they think. Rivertorch (talk) 09:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC) (P.S. I'll be offline for the next 6–8 hours, but there's no rush. Please just consider it.)
Hi Rivertorch, i greatly respect your opinion. You work on a lot of articles i have looked over and share an interest in and i've learned a lot just from reading your edits when i find them.
That being said i think you're exactly right on this...but...like you said, we'll have to be careful we don't give them free reign to band together with more deniers to make sweeping changes unimpeded.
I wonder if we can ask an administrator to look at this. I feel like we are dealing with someone who just wants to argue. I want to work on actually improving different sections but I feel it's rather pointless when this is going on. Insomesia (talk) 16:45, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I can support that decision quite easily. He's picking and choosing which policies he understands and wants to follow. I'll support admin action if it goes that far. Thanks and have a nice day Jenova2017:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I'd be surprised if no administrators are aware of it already. Unfortunately, the admin toolbelt doesn't have a magic bullet to deal with it. Since the article isn't being disrupted, only the talk page, and there's been neither edit warring nor blatant personal attacks, there really isn't a bright-line rule to enforce. If we try the "ignore for a month" approach and it doesn't work, then there are two or three potential options, but we'd need to proceed carefully. All too often, there's collateral damage in this sort of situation. Rivertorch (talk) 18:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I'll draft some language to add to the talk page tomorrow. It's important, I think, to be upfront about what we're doing. Rivertorch (talk) 18:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't see what harm it could do. Especially since after 3 months all we've established is that the other side has no intention of providing any references.
I think giving the group a rest and allowing the editor in question to bang away at their keyboard until carpal sets in is a good strategy. But is a month long enough? What about 6 months? – Lionel(talk)23:09, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well the arguing has already dragged on for 3 months and now it's finally subsided...for now. Rivertorch do good! Rivertorch do very good! =] Jenova2023:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Question
You commented on a question about renaming articles recently and used the phrase "slave-name 'homosexuality'". I'm unclear on what that meant. Could you elaborate? -- Avanu (talk) 17:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Oh that was purely personal opinion. If you know much about LGBT culture or LGBT history you will notice that homosexuality is still a negative. It is the scientific name but it's only used in either a medical/science context or a negative one. LGBT very very very rarely use the word themselves because of this.
If you generally see the word homosexual/homosexuality used then it's either news from a non-LGBT source (non-pink media like BBC for example), a religious themed piece, or something negative.
The word has become to LGBT culture through the riots and prides over the decaded what Negro, the other "N" word, and any other racial slurs have become. Terms avoided because they are unflattering, generally used to offend, or just to rant. LGBT have only socially reclaimed the slang terms they can use playfully; faggot, queen, queer, homo, etc. Homosexual is still a rare occurence to hear in a gaybourhood.
Even 250 years after emancipation slavery is still a sensitive issue for Black people and we do not see parallels between it and homosexuality so I would avoid "slave" metaphors so as to not offend us. – Lionel(talk)00:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Then you need some history lessons as multiple people have compared the fight for LGBT rights as the modern civil rights movement and LGB were actively persecuted, enslaved and executed by the Germans in the 1940s, just as the Jews were. They also have the punishment of forced labour and imprisonment in a few countries even today and are still put to death in some, but no that's fine, you are unaffected by that and have freedom to spout nonsense on my talk page.
And your list of concerns aren't really any of my concerns Lionelt. So thanks but no thanks
Look at my talk page I am being accused of posting spam on Tomorrow (The Cranberries song) by posting this link and if notice all the pages we have worked on including Sparks Fly have been brought into this and it is claimed that we posted spam links. LOL! Swifty*talk05:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Never mind I see what the problem is now they were falsely accusing me of spamming when I was actually double sourcing. Swifty*talk05:22, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
They should be more careful. Especially towards someone doing such good work =P
You appear to have made a mistake here - I reverted the edit of an IP which deleted some text, putting it back in. But you reverted me which results in the text being lost again. --112.134.145.118 (talk) 13:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I think we just undid my edit at the same time and so your edit went over mine? Either way though it's fixed now. Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)13:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Notification of Plagiarism
Part of this edit [2] is copied verbatim from a copyrighted source and constitutes plagiarism. This violates WP:COPYVIO. – Lionel(talk)02:13, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
You're clutching at straws Lionelt but i'll bring your accusation to the attention of our friendly local Admin and get a second opinion. Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)08:18, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Well thank you for getting involved and i'm glad you sorted it. I do not see the need for reparative/conversion therapy in speech marks though. Can you explain that? Thanks and have a nice day ツ Jenova20(email)10:08, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Ah, i see. It seemed like inserting a bias, that's all. IT goes under the names conversion or reparative therapy so it's a biased word either way depending on the one you use.
First you edit warred at the Love Won Out section. Then you started edit warring at the See also section. You have passed 3RR at Exodus International and if you continue you may be blocked. – Lionel(talk)02:52, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
And you used underhand tactics including abusing BLP policy to delete and censor information you don't agree with over a couple words. Put it in perspective or you look like a hypocrite Lionelt. ツ Jenova20(email)08:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello again. I wonder if you'd consider rephrasing or striking the "one guy" part of your recent reply there. It could be construed as unnecessarily provocative, I think. Rivertorch (talk) 09:13, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
I think these accounts that show up on the talk page are a sign of a larger force of fear of ... <gasp> widespread homosexual acceptance. We're not here to offer therapy or correct years of misinformation from dubious sources but as you and I have been singled out it may make sense to follow the ignore the nonsense and let others offer up some guidance. If you do interact I suggest keep insisting on <gasp> actual reliable sources! Insomesia (talk) 07:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm not sure exactly what an activist is so i'd like to avoid being called one. I don't picket, protest or march...that's my definition of activist.
Beliefs are different and if we count those then everyones an activist. I'm sticking to the reliable sources argument though Insomesia, thanks ツ Jenova20(email)08:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Jenova, I just wanted to let you know that although we disagree on several of the issues surrounding this article, that my disagreements with are not personal. I'm sure that as an openly gay editor here, you receive plenty of those attacks. I want to assure you that is not my goal is not to attack anyone, or to be disagreeable. Peace. —Maktesh(talk)05:05, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. You have to understand also that you cannot change the meaning of a word using Wikipedia without running into a lot of policy violations as i told you yesterday. You can see plenty of arguments along these lines on Talk:Homophobia, they happen often and they fail often because reliable proof needs to be presented. You might also like to strike your comment containing accusations before an administrator notices it by using <s>text here</s> ツ Jenova20(email)10:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
July 2012
This edit [3] is a blatant violation of WP:CANVASS. In addition, you are maintaining a battleground mentality. This is not the first time you have canvassed at that project. I suggest you self-revert as a show of goodwill to the community.– Lionel(talk)09:08, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
That's not canvassing Lionel, it's bringing an issue of censorship to the attention of that project where it's a watched page.
It happens with every wikiproject, including yours, and that's without mentioning your battleground mentality where you are connected directly to all 3 editors you are attempting to remove verifiable information with through a vote and outnumbering. That is a battleground mentality. Might also want to read WP:NOTVOTE and WP:CONSENSUS Lionel or better yet get some admin involved so we can sort out your weekly accusations and edit warring ツ Jenova20(email)09:23, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
That notice is not neutral under any interpretation. And it is a complete falsehood: I am the only member of WP:CATHOLIC. Belchfire and VQuakr are not members. Misrepresenting those editors in this fashion is a serious violation. Creating a false report that WP:CATHOLIC is disrupting an article for the purpose of mobilizing WP:LGBT is a also very serious. The fact that you have previously been warned not to do this yet you persist is extremely disturbing.– Lionel(talk)09:51, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
The note at the top of Born This Way Foundation said:
This article was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on 13 July 2012 with a consensus to merge the content into the article Lady Gaga. If you find that such action has not been taken promptly, please consider assisting in the merger
Wasn't me - the article came up as a closed but still tagged AFD, so I removed the AFD tag. Since there was a tag saying that the article was to be merged, I left it alone and moved on. The merge tag was placed (here) by the admin who closed the debate - User:King of Hearts. You'll want to discuss the matter with them. Best, UltraExactZZSaid~ Did13:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Or maybe you could work on making the Lady Gaga article less bloated, as I have a bit. I was a bit surprised no one challenged my condensing of some of it, but there's an edit war underway there now in any case. (Sigh.) The BTWF article itself was an example of bloating, IMHO. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 14:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I felt the BTWF article was pretty decent in size before the delete and merging it with the Lady Gaga article destroyed it. The Lady Gaga article will always be huge because there is nothing to compare the subject to. She is frequently marked top of global influences and makes a fortune from dedicated fans. That article will always be huge.
The BTWF is different, it's more about her outreach work and it will only increase in size. As we can see since the discussion there's been 2 or 3 more companies allying with the Foundation this year alone.
WP:CRYSTAL also already has no bearing on the fact that the topic is notable throughout worldwide media. And considering there were morekeep votes there than merge or delete, even though it's not a vote, it's still gonna be unmerged eventually. Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)14:49, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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Firstly I hope I've put this in the right place, its hard to gauge on a phone.
Secondly I notice you cleaned up my edits to the Steve Cross article...
You gave the reasons as deleting advertising etc.
Just to make you aware, i did not intend to advertise anything, I was using the text to back up the edits of him now being a commentator.
... I'm not moaning, just letting you know my intentions etc.
Obviously I'm new here, and I'm still getting the hang of yhese things lol
No problemo, just be careful with which links you add as advertising is a strict no no. It's a good article though from a glance. Thanks and have a nice night ツ Jenova20(email)21:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
WP:LGBT
Hi there, I got your message. There are several things you can do. The first is to clean up the main page for it is a little more up-to-date, and then you can post this on everyone's wall who has signed up and hasn't got it, and that way people know that the project still exists. Maybe with a note that that says that they hadn't got it before because we've been dormant a while.
If you want to write a newsletter, SatyrTN can sort out posting it on all the membership's Talkpages, he is still around. The Wordsmith is also interested in reviving the project. The competitions were never that popular even when we were active, so there's not a lot of point in keeping it going. I think the most important thing you can do to get people paying more attention is to get them the Watch the WT:LGBT page, that when when people like yourself or the others who are posting there for help say something, everyone who's still active knows about it.
I'll start tagging the newer members...or maybe all of them since it's useful really for all of them. I'll work backwards from the ,ost recent but is there a bot that can automatically do this for new members? Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)23:49, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Finished the welcome messages. There was only the most recent who hadn't got one and SatyrTN appears to have got the rest. I'll start talking to him about the newsletter. Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)10:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
We're an island off the continent and thats where it ends. It doesn't make us any more European than it would if America joined the EU. They dont instantly become a different race. I dont consider myself European but theres a minority here who do.
Europe is just a jumbled beurocratic mess being turned into a single entity/country and placing its own version of history and culture over every other. If it doesnt implode from debt it will spread. Im proud of this country and so it's a pain to have the EU grow each year to cost more, take more of our rights and threaten to sue us. ツ Jenova20(email)
Well... I knew that "My Country" was derived from "GSTQ." But I didn't know that Brits don't consider themselves European. However, Americans consider Brits to be European. And that overrides the Brit's non-identification. I guess that settles it.– Lionel(talk)08:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Believe it or not I am a huge fan of the Royal Family--I stay up for all of their weddings, hahaha. And a huge fan of the Bond franchise. That HM-Craig thing was incredible. I was making such a ruckus the neighbors almost called the bobbies.– Lionel(talk)09:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Americans have a terrible knowledge of geography from what i've seen so that's hardly surprizing. I can remember only last year i had to point out RUSSIA to an American i met. Don't your schools teach geography outside America?? Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)09:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
WTF Jenova, we learn all about geography. Where is Mexico? It's where you get tacos. Where is China? It's where you get chicken ala king. Where's Italy? It's where you get spaghetti and meatballs. If you wanna make fun of us, fine. Just don't bother dialing U-S-A the next time you get in trouble with the Huns. – Lionel(talk)09:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
Nope. Birmingham is a bit far from London and i don't intend to miss work and spend a small fortune on tickets. I'm not really a sport person anyway...I suppose i could watch the swimmers but i'd have little interest in the actual swimming itself...You? Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)09:29, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
You're on an island!!! How far can it possible be????? (hahahaa--kidding--I checked---it is far) Well since you ask, I was planning on popping in for the weekend and catching some archery. But seriously, if the Games were 100 mi away I'd go. – Lionel(talk)09:43, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Spot on! =P Although there's a _____(german?) swimmer sporting strange water wings that looks kinda disgusting.
Regarding London, it's not too far really it's just a pain to get to. And archery is just pub darts for people with good eye sight. Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)10:18, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
You've got mail!
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Yeah, it only took me about a year longer than everyone else...I was still editing it just, i thought it was wrong. I suppose to look on the bright side, even though i can't manage the last one and i'm glad that 30 minutes of tinkering paid off. Thank you very much! You're a good teacher! ツ Jenova20(email)09:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
It's enough that you can call templates - you can always try to learn making them at a later date. I didn't teach you that, you did it all yourself! WormTT(talk) 09:12, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I have to credit it to Stepho and the Euro NCAP templates and also fixing tables in Hollywood actor articles. They're still real confusing for me and more time consuming than copy + paste. Thanks though, you are a brilliant teacher ツ Jenova20(email)09:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
You surprize me Ryan! I managed the first 3 even though i couldn't understand the instructions very well. I'm used to minor changes on templates i'm already acquainted with and the dyslexia means i learn better by trying than reading about it, which is why it took so long.
I got three quarters through a game by nuking every other nation out of existence and went back to Civ 3. Civ5 is terrible and buggy and i absolutely hate Steam. They've also disadvantaged the English a lot and destroyed the experience of expansion and conquest. Civ 4 - also crap but was good for adding religion and minor government policy options.
I've gone back to playing Civ 3 with all add-ons as the British and trying to keep the game going as long as possible by not invading others and intervening when China (continually) declares war on America (a possibility in the future perhaps?).
I would agree if not for the wonder known as the AI Entity, which messes up every game to the point where you have to rush to win. I prefer to drag the games out and that's not possible on Civ 2. I assume you've tried Civ 3 then Worm? Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)13:10, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Civ 3 was great, it had some of the best user submitted maps and it's scenarios were awesome. Unfortunately my game had a glitch so I couldn't save a scenario victory. I wrecked the installation disks so when I changed computers I couldn't play it any more. I liked the religion aspect of Civ4, but that was about it. Civ5 is great, except it freezes up around turn 100. It starts taking a minute or so per action and can take 10-20 minutes for a turn. I suppose that is what I get for playing on a laptop. I've always wished that there were "official mods" rather than user submitted ones. It would be great if I could choose to turn the religion aspect back on. In addition, steam changed their system for installing mods and I haven't been able to add any since then. I hate steam. I finally caved in and purchased an expansion pack on Friday and I'm still waiting for steam support to get back to me because it didn't install onto my game. Perhaps I need the disk in? RyanVesey14:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I just asked and apparently Civ 2 was new when people still used an abacus to add up =P
Hey Jenova, you might want to consider moving your userboxes around or moving an image to the top of the page. Currently, File:Backtowel2.jpg appears next to your name when an editor scrolls over it using popups. RyanVesey18:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that used to bother me but i've got used to it. It's not the first image though so i'm not sure why that happens...ツ Jenova20(email)18:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I edited your userpage so that it is the rainbow now, I think it was because it was the first .jpg of a certain size on the page (the userboxes are code for before the text). I could do it without any visual change at all (atm the userboxes are lower down) if you let me create a subpage in your userspace.--GilderienChat|List of good deeds20:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
All done, still the rainbow with no other effects. I've put all your userboxes on a separate page and transcluded them, which isn't detected by the NavPop-ups extension.--GilderienChat|List of good deeds20:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks :) It's been bouncing around at the back of my mind for a few days, and I just realised that it doesn't bring anything up for my name (everything is obfuscatedly transcluded).--GilderienChat|List of good deeds21:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
You said I could always come to you. By the way to reply to what you said on the talk page. See why I want a source? Too many contradictions. I don't have cable so my information is based on what I get and I always check to make sure there are sources for things cause if it had I'm sure something would have said so by now. But even the DVD makes a contradiction as it says on it's back "all new 23-minute episode Spooky Games!." why would it call it all new if it aired is my question but I'm sure something may pop up before the month is up that's why I am giving it that long. ^_^ Swifty*talk04:24, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, i see your point and i have to agree there. I haven't watched Scooby in years as it got too predictable. You're always welcome to bother me anyway and like last time, if you have a question then i'm quite active so just drop me a message. Have a nice day Swifty ツ Jenova20(email)08:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
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Hello, Jenova20. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hi Jenova! I wanted to stop by to share a new project with you that I am developing, called the WikiWomen's Collaborative. I would love your input about the project since you have expressed interest in engaging more women in becoming editors.
On the talk page, you'll find a number of questions I'm seeking input on. I'm especially seeking thoughts about hosting the space off of Wikipedia (in the WordPress section). I hope you will join in on the conversation.
Finally, this project will be developed with volunteers from around the world who want to engage and support bringing new women (and transwomen) to Wikipedia. If you think you'd like to be involved in some capacity, that'd be awesome. We're still working on developing roles, but, you can learn more about volunteer opportunities here.
Thank you for the consideration and I hope you'll participate in developing this exciting new project to bring more women to Wikipedia! SarahStierch (talk) 22:56, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Hey
File:Pikachu volkswagon beetle.jpg, whoever this user is is about to tick me off. I hate people who want to go and randomly pick picture and make excuses to delete them especially after the pics been on there for over a month. Can you say something cause all Pokémon Yellow just says "A collaboration between Volkswagen and Nintendo resulted in the creation of a yellow Volkswagen New Beetle with some features taken from Pikachu." and if you look at the picture there is more then Pikachu depicted on it and I think the guy is..I'm going to keep that to myself. ^_^ Swifty*talk15:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
And it makes it worse cause if you look at Pokémon Gold and Silver it has the Lugia P.T. Cruiser on there but it's not okay for Pokémon Yellow to have VWB? That makes no darn sense. ^_^ Swifty*talk15:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
It was only done for promotion I have never actually seen it personally myself to answer your Dave. ^_^ Swifty*talk15:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Dave is better with the copyright stuff Swifty so i'll step aside here and let you two work it out between you. Nice to see you back though! ツ Jenova20(email)15:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
There couldn't be a free replacement. The car is a derivative work, it needs a FUR. The first image you linked to wouldn't be free, it contains tons of derivative works, the second might be free, but is not a replacement, the third also has a derivative work problem, right? RyanVesey15:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I was thinking about that for a moment too, but since the car is not primarily an artwork but a utilitarian object, i.e. a serial piece of industrial design, I don't think it falls under copyright as such. Fut.Perf.☼15:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I've seen images of buses deleted from commons due to having a design on them, but I also see pictures that exist. If the car is considered a derivative work, the uploaded image should stay, if it isn't, it should be replaced with this. The first image Worm linked to contains non de minimis derivative works. I'll raise the bus question on Village Pump/Copyright at commons. RyanVesey15:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The thing is a moveable billboard, designed solely to promote Pokemon. I'm fairly sure we can only use it under fair use? (I await someone correcting me very quickly) Thanks ツ Jenova20(email)16:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
The olive branch was a very warm sentiment and most appreciated. In return I present you with this bottle of EVOO! It is exceptional with a little balsamic and a baguette. A little Chianti to wash it down with and that's living! – Sir Lionel, EG(talk)06:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations on using manual archiving to archive a talk page for the first time! Do enjoy this copy-pasta, in tribute to the cut and paste job you successfully managed! WormTT(talk) 10:01, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Cool =] I have my pasta, i have my olive oil...All i need is a sauce and some meatballs...And a cook lol. Thank you very much Worm! ツ Jenova20(email)10:35, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
You are welcome! My next door neighbour is a gay couple, very friendly. One works in art and the other works with autistic people :D -- RexRowan Talk 12:41, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Cool. My neighbours are strange and grow weed plants in their garden =P
Ahh, well you're directly responsible for keeping this community alive then and fun for people to stay part of. Congratulations and thanks ツ Jenova20(email)13:38, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello. You have a new message at TheSpecialUser's talk page. →TSU tp* 08:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Fixed - thank you so much for letting me know. Thanks again and have a nice sunday! ツ Jenova20 (email) 13:17, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Doing... it now buddy ツ Jenova20 (email) 17:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
-- RexRowan Talk 13:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
