User talk:Jbhunley/Archives/2016/May

Thanks for advise

I'll admit that I was not as careful as usual on my last batch of reviews--I've been busy with a lot of things lately, so I didn't give it as much time as I should have. I'll take more care form now on and read up on your recommendations. Thanks. Garagepunk66 (talk) 15:20, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Garagepunk66: Thank you, we all have those days, me as much as anyone. Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Those scripts/tools I mentioned on your talk page are a great help. You may also want to co sider "unreviewing" any marginal articles after yoy tag them - the NPP Tool automaticly marks anything you tag as reviewed. Enjoy your weekend! Jbh ^Talk 15:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your understanding and advice. By the way, I'd like to use the tools you've recommended. Where can I go to find these tools--I'd love to know how to access them. Garagepunk66 (talk) 16:04, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Garagepunk66: WP:User scripts has lots of useful scripts which you add to your Common javascript in Preferences one importScript('User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/deletionFinder.js'); will place a prev del in the page title if the page has been deleted before. WP:Hotcat can be enabled in Preferences/Gadgets. A couple others should be in the menu bar at the top of your page Page==>Tools==>Copyvio detection tool and Page==>Tools==>Expand bare references if they are not there you may need to enable them by importing a script from WP:User scripts. You can look at my configuration at User:Jbhunley/vector.js and User:Jbhunley/common.js. Those configs are kind of sloppy because I just cut/pasted things but I do not know javascript. Jbh ^Talk 17:21, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Garagepunk66: You may want to check out User:Kudpung/NPP mentoring it looks like someone else is asking for an NPP course and you may want to join in. Kudpung is kind of the Eminence grise of NPP on Wikipedia and does a good tutorial. Jbh ^Talk 20:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Garagepunk66 (talk) 00:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Look who's back...

Hey JBH, have you noticed that Ankit Love has once more graced us with his presence? The article is just as bloated as last time, I've been watching and trying to muster up the energy to do something about it, don't exactly relish the task though. Just thought you might get a laugh out of it - especially all the more recent coverage about him running for mayor of London! Fyddlestix (talk) 16:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyddlestix: hey! long time no see! .... That article will always have a special place in my heart

At least this time no one is claiming he is royalty or a race car driver or whatever... If you decide to dive in ping me and I will help out. There are a couple of decent sources in that pile. Jbh ^Talk 18:02, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyddlestix: Nice job cleaning up the article. It looks much better. Jbh ^Talk 14:17, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I can't take much credit for it though, Drmies did most of the cleanup. Fyddlestix (talk) 16:17, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NPA concepts

From WP:NPA: "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence."

Being "not congruant with their past statements" is lying? Really? In that case, I probably lie at least weekly at Wikipedia. And yet, I've never been accused of lying.

I've seen people blocked for less blatant PA than that. Does this Fram person have some special status I'm not aware of?

Perhaps you could give a hypothetical example of something you would consider a personal attack. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:03, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise we end up with a community where no one can be held to their own past statements/promises or even to a common objective reality.

I disagree. You can do that without ever using the word "lie". The difference is AGF or no AGF. Until we develop the ability to see into others' minds the word "lie" should be a bright line. When used against people who view themselves as being honest, it's a highly offensive accusation. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:27, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked at the thread at the Village Pump now, and what I read there, promising to do something and then not doing it, and apparently never having intended to do it, is IMHO lying... Thomas.W ^talk 13:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Look, believing that someone is lying and accusing them publicly of lying are two very different things. I really thought that at least some of Wikipedia was better than this. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:42, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) You claimed that accusing someone of lying is a personal attack according to WP:NPA and raised the matter at WP:ANI, obviously seeking some form of sanction for Fram (why else would you post at ANI?), and I'm proving you wrong on that point. Which isn't the same thing as me saying that putting it in bold letters in a section header at WP:VP was a nice/proper/collegiate thing to do, or something that I would do myself, all I'm saying is that it isn't sanctionable. Thomas.W ^talk 13:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) As I said I personally prefer to avoid "lie" just as a generally avoid using "fuck" on-wiki. The way our "content-not-contributor" ethos is there is a big difference between "you have told lies; you are lying; that was a lie; etc." and "you are a liar". Just like with Sockmasters we are not required to AGF in all circumstances. AGF is the starting point when one is examining the actions of others - this is enshrined in the oft quoted, and often overquoted, "AGF is not a suicide pact". Jbh ^Talk 13:43, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Question about Dhananjay gangal

Hi Jbhunley,

Thanks for your comment on Dhananjay_gangal page. What sort of biographical sources should I add? Would be grateful if you can let me know.

Prashant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prashant P Karhade (talk • contribs) 08:02, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Prashant P Karhade: Wikipedia's notability guidelines require significant coverage in independent reliable sources to demonstrate the notability of an article subject. What this means is a source must be published by a third party with a solid reputation for fact checking and accuracy. We need this to be able to verify the information in an article. For a living person we have a high standard of referencing. Every substantive fact you assert, especially one that is susceptible to potential challenge, requires a citation with a reference that is about them, and is independent of them. Please also see WP:PRIMARY which details the limited permitted usage of primary sources and WP:SELFPUB which has clear limitations on self published sources. (You should never place unsourced information in an article in the first place though.) While there is no requirement for sources to be in English, this is the English Wikipedia and most people will not be able to judge non-English sources, particularly if they are recordings rather than text.

In the case of the videos you placed in the article they were obvious copyright violations. Wikipedia's external links policy forbids linking to copyrighted material. The other source was written by the subject of the article rather than being written by someone else about the subject. What you need to find are articles about the person and to trim away all of the claims which are not supported by the sources.

Because there is so much information in the article and no sources to say where that information came from I need to mention Wikipedia's guidelines on conflict of interest which say people who are the subject of an article or know the subject of an article should not be editing the article. Rather they should use the talk page to suggest edits or use the Articles for Creation process to have the article reviewed. Wikipedia also has a very strict policy, WP:PAID, if someone is being paid to write an article. Anyone who receives compensation for writing an article must disclose they are being paid, who is paying them and on whose behalf they are being paid. Once the disclosure is made they should edit as I described for editors having a conflict of interest.

Please click through the blue links. Those terms are used in particular ways on Wikipedia and the links explain in more detail and please remember to sign your talk page posts with ~~~~ which will insert your user name and a time stamp. Jbh ^Talk 13:42, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]