User talk:JSFarman/Archive 5

Lengthy protest to my decline of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Marcan Entertainment

   ... Dear JSFarman:

Thank you for reviewing the article of Marcan Entertainment. We've made an adjustment to the language of the article to be more on the side of neutral point of view as you pointed out with some key words.

I would like to convey two things to counter your objections in regards to showing music release (in which you’ve mentioned it wasn’t necessary to show all the release) and notability of Marcan Entertainment.

First, I would like to reference these two music production companies that are published articles on Wikipedia where they’ve listed all of their releases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dsign_Music and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandit

Please note that Dsign Music (Pop music production label) uses the term “Production Highlights” but they are in fact its all of their music release since inception of the company to present. We are fully aware of the company’s release since they are in same K-pop and Asian music market. Also, their website depicts same releases as their Wikipedia page reflects.

Also, Vandit (EDM production label) uses the term “Releases” which shows inconsistent sequences of releases but it’s most of their music releases that were released to the public. It may confuse the reader of the article because release sequences numbers are random but when you go into Vandit.com website, it lists all of their releases in this order, which matches the releases from their Wikipedia article. (i.e. in the beginning of the release article, they start at random but starting towards the middle of the page, it lists its release from “VANDIT 001 through “VANDIT 109” there are few missing releases because they were never released to the public.)

Second, it’s agreeable that Marcan Entertainment’s references and its presence on the Internet may be limited because it’s music publishing and production company that is only over 3 years old. Unless the reviewer is keen and informative on Asian market specifically such as Kpop (Korean pop music), it may be portrayed as less qualified in the qualification of notability.

However, there are two sources to verify the legitimacy of the notoriety in the field of Kpop music. The first obvious reason is CD album jackets that reflect the releases of Marcan Entertainment’s tracks. All the Kpop artists’ album that Marcan had worked on shows the credit of Marcan Entertainment writers and Marcan Entertainment as publisher. (I’m not sure Wikipedia accepts photos scan of CD jackets to suffice the concern of valid music production credits.) But for now, you can verify and match the writers name on the releases that are listed from Marcan Writer/Producer section to the Wikipedia album pages below.

Other source is the sales number of physical copies of CD albums that were sold through out the world that includes Marcan Entertainment's releases not including digital downloads. Total volume of sales are over 3.5 million records worldwide. Here are some highlights.

Hyori Lee – H-LOGIC (4th Album) – Sold 31,756 copies (As of 2010) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-Logic
f/x - Pinocchio (1st Album) - Sold 128,179 (As of September 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio_(f(x)_album)
SHINee – Lucifer (2nd Album) – Sold 250,180 copies (As of 2010) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_(Shinee_album)
SHINee – The First (Japan Release) – Sold 100,000+ (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_(album)
SHINee – Lucifer (Japan Single Release) – Sold 62,193 (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_(Shinee_song)
SHINee - Why So Serious? (The 3rd Album) - Sold 155,941 (As of May 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_So_Serious%3F_%E2%80%93_The_Misconceptions_of_Me
Super Junior – Bonamana (4th Album) – Sold 403,000+ copies (As of December 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonamana
Super Junior – Mr. Simple (5th Album) – Sold 551,332+ copies (As of September 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Simple
TVXQ – Tone (5th Album / Japan Release) – Sold 331,320 (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(TVXQ_album)
EXO – XOXO (1St Album /World-Wide Release) Sold 1,712,222+ (As of December 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOXO_(album)

Physical CD's that were sold above has the name Marcan Entertainment as publisher/producer and its writers credited for songs and tracks that were produced and written inside the CD jacket. Lastly, please bear in mind that Dsign Music and Vandit whose articles are published in Wikipedia doesn’t have much presence on the Internet as you can even see on their Wikipedia page. These two companies are serving the general public in similar capacity as Marcan Entertainment, except Vandit's productions are mainly in Electronic Dance Music (EDM). Also, please note that Marcan Entertainment’s publication of music volume sales (3.5 mm plus and on going) mentioned above alone out paces by far all of Vandit’s catalogue release sales volume up to date.

I hope I was able to clarify some of the questionable notations you made in this regard. I’ll wait for your favorable reply.

-freefive Freefive (talk) 22:17, 25 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Freefive (talk). Thank you for taking so much time with this, and also, thank you for editing the article and removing the non-neutral terms. Marcan may well be notable based on the amount of music that's been sold, but that needs to be highlighted and demonstrated. Maybe start with explaining what Marcan Entertainment is, and say that the catalogue has sold more more than 3.5 million songs/albums/etc? Then you just need to reference it. (It needs to be verifiable through an independent, reliable source.)

Re: Vandit and Dsign Music: Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.

Re: Full catalogue listing - it's less onerous now that you've removed the promotional language from the article. But it would be helpful if you wikilinked the releases that can be wikilinked, as you've done above. A reader should be easily able to access information about the music if it's available. See WP:LINK. Also - it's not incumbent upon the reader to do the research necessary to track down the affiliation between the records/artists and Marcan Entertainment. Anything (reliable, independent) that you can reference? Consider also just including "notable releases" that can be verified. See WP:VERIFY as well as WP:MOS for alternative formatting options.

The fact that the company is only three years old and that coverage doesn't yet exist isn't relevant. See WP:NRV. Also - neither a reviewer nor a reader should need to be "keen and informative on Asian market specifically such as Kpop (Korean pop music)" to understand why the subject of the article is notable. It needs to be evident to any reader, regardless of his/her expertise.

The references you used in the original submission don't demonstrate notability: the Marcan website, Facebook, and Twitter aren't independent, and the remaining references are about artists, not the company. You need references that are specifically about Marcan Entertainment.

The article as it currently stands is much better than it was! Feel free to hit me back after you've added the references, and I'll be glad to take a look at it again. Thanks! Julie JSFarman (talk) 01:55, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ms. Farman:

Thank you so much for your sound advice! I apologize about editing the talk constantly. I didn't know that you were being notified every time I made a correction. I've taken your advice and updated the page with references. Some of the references are in Korean language but they are from reputable sources. I've also updated with appropriate links from outside sources as well as wikipedia pages to its subjects and context. Please review it at your convenience and let me know what else might be needed to better the article. Thank you again and hope you had wonderful and safe holidays.

-freefive Freefive (talk) 00:41, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again Freefive (talk), and happy new year! The article looks much better; what you've done with the wikilinks is perfect. I'm still concerned about the lack of references, though. I'm not saying that Marcan isn't notable, but according to WP policies, notability needs to be demonstrated by independent sources covering the company in-depth. That means articles (or books, journals, etc) that are expressly about Marcan. It may just be that it's too soon. (I know you said that the company is young.) Please resubmit the article when you feel confident that you've added the necessary sources! Thanks. Julie JSFarman (talk) 05:41, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ms. Farman,

Thanks for your reply. I’ve delved into the guidelines of notability stated by Wikipedia and found applicable rules that help Marcan Entertainment article to be published. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

Under the general notability guideline it states:

• "Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media, and in any language. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability. • "Sources"[2] should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected.[3] Sources do not have to be available online and do not have to be in English. Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability.

This guideline states “published works in all forms and media, and in any language” is also a common factor determining the notability of the subject and “availability of secondary sources covering the subject is good test for notability”.

Under the guidelines and definition provided by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Published

CD and DVD format available to general public that is accessible for review in some manner is defined as accessible source and published works.

'• A film, video, CD, or DVD distributed to theatres or video stores; a radio program including its contents actually broadcast; a television broadcast; a streaming video or audio source on the Internet; a song recording distributed to a public; '

Examples of accessible (defined by Wikipedia)

* An item that is available, in at least one public library, anywhere in the world, is considered "accessible".

* A book that can be bought in at least one store, anywhere in the world, including a used bookstore, is "accessible".

* A live event that was neither recorded nor transcribed is "inaccessible".

* A web list or forum must be both public and archived in a public location to be considered "accessible".

* A radio or television program that is archived by the broadcaster is "accessible" if the broadcaster allows people to visit the studio and listen to the program (perhaps for a fee); it is "inaccessible" if the general public is not allowed to listen to the program.

* Any item that is inaccessible, due to zero copies being available to the public at this time (even if copies were available to the public once upon a time) is "inaccessible"'

Our published works are accessible by general public through all of these methods above. Also, this means the reference source doesn’t necessarily have to be “books, scholar, JSTOR” to be qualified for independent sources.

Since Marcan Entertainment is a music production and publishing company, having a verified source such as CD imprints that contains “Marcan Entertainment” as publisher and producer for mentioned releases that are available through public libraries, itunes, other publicly available internet music merchants and sites, and music record stores world-wide, alone should be sufficient for notability criteria defined by Wikipedia.

Hence, if anyone who is reading the article of Marcan Entertainment can verify the notability by accessing CD albums that contains Marcan’s releases and there will be no doubt in any reader’s mind that Marcan is music publishing and production company (in which that’s exactly what the article entails nothing more.)

As in regards to verifiability and its notability requirement:

Notability requires verifiable evidence

The common theme in the notability guidelines is that there must be verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability. The absence of citations in an article (as distinct from the non-existence of sources) does not indicate that the subject is not notable.

No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity, nor is the topic unsuitable for any other reason. Sources of evidence include recognized peer reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally.

Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation. Wikipedia articles are not a final draft, and an article's subject can be notable if such sources exist, even if they have not been named yet. However, once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface. If it is likely that significant coverage in independent sources can be found for a topic, deletion due to lack of notability is inappropriate.

This policy indicates subject has to have significant attention from independent sources (published works that includes all forms of media) to support the claim of notability. I believe this policy is sufficed through already sold 3.5 million and on going published material (CD albums) that reflects Marcan Entertainment as publisher and producer for claimed works. And also, the availability of these works to general public in the world is surely accessible through stated medium by Wikipedia.

This policy also concludes “Notability requires “only” the “existence” of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation”. This further supports that Marcan Entertainment has met the criteria of notability. When you click on the “existence” from Wikipedia:Notability page, it leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Published which I’ve demonstrated with afore mentioned.

Another policy by Wikipedia you might want to look at is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)

Under this notability guideline, it states

Criteria for musicians and ensembles [edit]

A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, instrumentalist, etc.) may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria:

* 1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself.[note 1] This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries[note 2] except for the following: Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.[note 3] Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.'

* 2. Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.[note 4]

* 3. Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.

* 4. Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.[note 5]

* 5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are notable).

* 6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably-prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.[note 6] This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses.

* 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

* 8. Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammy's award.

* 9. Has won or placed in a major music competition.

* 10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E for further clarifications)

* 11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network.

* 12. Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network.

Even though, Marcan Entertainment isn’t exactly a musician, but I believe it fits the criteria of musician since Marcan produces and publishes music. It also meets more than one criteria mentioned above in terms of music that was released through Marcan Entertainment. (1-3, 5, 7, 10, 11 for these criteria, it is absolutely applicable in Asia (Korea, Japan, & Southeast Asian countries)

In conclusion, your mention of “cover in-depth” about a company through independent sources omits other reliable source as stated by Wikipedia:Notability policy.

It clearly states that “Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation. Wikipedia articles are not a final draft, and an article's subject can be notable if such sources exist, even if they have not been named yet.”

I believe above statement from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability explains other sources such as published materials (All other forms of media including CD imprints) should be considered as reference for notability even though they’re not cited immediately since Wikipedia articles are not final draft but on-going public article.

I hope I was able to justify Marcan's notability according to the guidelines of notability provided by Wikipedia. Thanks again for your input and I'll look forward to your favorable and thorough response in accordance with notability guidelines I've mentioned above. Freefive (talk) 17:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again Freefive (talk). Thank you once again for your thoughtful response. That said, Marcan isn't a musician or composition. You yourself described it as "music production, publishing and management company" in the article. I don't believe you've established notability -- see WP:CORP. However, You've made significant improvements to the article, and you should resubmit it -- I've certainly made mistakes in assessing notability previously. Another reviewer might interpret the guidelines differently, and you'll have the favorable result you're looking for. Happy editing, and thanks again for your efforts! Julie

Dear Ms. Farman,

I appreciate your encouraging feedback. Please forgive me if I sound like as if I'm trying to step on your toes for this. But even in WP:CORP, it clearly states, "This page is to help determine whether an organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services, is a valid subject for a separate Wikipedia article dedicated solely to that organization or product. The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose, although people gathered for more specific purposes may be governed by more specific guidelines. For example, people gathered together for the purpose of making music are covered by WP:MUSIC.

According to this rule, it even states that the company (that has formed by people who gathered together for the purpose of making the music) is specifically covered by WP:MUSIC. Marcan Entertainment's article never deviated from the fact that company is music production and publishing company. In this case, I'm not sure what kind of impression you got from Marcan Entertainment's article other than that company is set up by music producers that publishes K-Pop music worldwide. So in retrospect, this article should have reviewed in accordance with correct notability criteria as mentioned in WP:CORP WP:NMUSIC.

I will resubmit this article as it fits all criteria that is mentioned by Wikipedia WP:CORP WP:NMUSIC. Thank you again for your review and precious time. It was quite a learning experience.

Freefive (talk) 18:40, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Freefive (talk): Let's agree to disagree. No need to continue leaving me messages -- my assessment won't change unless you're able to add references that establish the company's notability. Your article will be reviewed by someone else, and, as noted above, he/she may feel differently. Thanks. JSFarman (talk) 19:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Patrice M. Regnier page, Edits

Hello! Thank you for your suggestions about the Patrice M. Regnier page. This is my first Wikipedia submission, so I appreciate the feedback. I've made the edits that you suggested and am going to re-submit. If you could look it over, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samanthacarmean (talk • contribs) 23:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Samantha! Samanthacarmean Apologies for the delay. I'm sorry to say -- as you know I think a page on Patrice M. Regnier would be a great addition to Wikipedia - but sources are still lacking. Can you find references that cover her life/career more extensively? Thanks, Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Julie, I have found a few print sources that are not online - how would you suggest citing these? The majority of her work occurred in the pre-internet world. I apologize for all the questions, thanks so much for your help. - Samantha — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samanthacarmean (talk • contribs) 22:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Samanthacarmean (talk! Glad you found more sources - ! The basics for citing from publications online aren't too much different than the usual:

Newspaper articles[edit]

Citations for newspaper articles typically include:

byline (author's name), if any
title of the article within quotation marks
name of the newspaper in italics
city of publication (if not included in name of newspaper), in parentheses
date of publication (the "cite news" template places the date after the byline if there is one)
page number(s) are optional

No need to apologize - happy to answer questions if I can - and psyched that the article is getting closer to publication! Cheers - Julie JSFarman (talk) 00:03, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly unfree files

Some of your uploads may be unfree. See Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files/2013 November 15#OTRS pending since July. --Stefan2 (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stefan2 (talk)- I have just resent the permission to permissions-en@wikipedia.org.JSFarman (talk) 22:34, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Articles_for_creation/Plumbee

Hi there JSFarman,

Thank you very much for your constructive comments on my first wikipedia submission. I have added additional citations on the points you made, as described below:

2 is about the coalition - I have added a link to the official membership page for the iSGA showing Plumbee's membership as well as the original link to the information on the coalition.

4 is a press release - I can't find a way to link direct to that game and the official website doesn't seem to have an informational page on individual games. I am happy to remove this information until a better citation is available if that is preferred?

5 confirms only that the company won an award - I have added a second link to the shortlist of nominees which shows that Plumbee was indeed nominated for four awards before winning one of the four nominations.

Is there anything else I should do before re-submitting?

Again, thank you for your guidelines, helps me to understand the process a lot more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grepus (talk • contribs) 09:58, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grepus (talk). I'm amazed that this is your first submission - incredible job with the formatting and tone.

The problem with the submission, though, remains that the references need to be more significant. There should be in-depth coverage of Plumbee -- articles that are specifically about the company. While it's cool that they're a member of the coalition -- and cool that Plumbee has won awards -- those citations don't provide enough coverage to establish notability. Check WP:Notability for the specifics. If you can find more coverage of the company, resubmit -- otherwise it might just be WP:Too soon. Best regards! Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the compliments and the advice. I've been tracking news on Plumbee via Google Alerts and there is finally a news piece on Yahoo Finance regarding some investment they just received. I have also edited the article in order to fix some of the other issues you mentioned. Once I've finished, should I just resubmit within Articles for Creation or simply submit the page at /plumbee ?

Thanks again

Grepus (talk) 13:22, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grepus (talk) and sorry for the delay. I only just saw your message. You should resubmit the article through AfC -- I think it still needs some work, but another reviewer might feel differently. Happy new year! Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:02, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article for Creation/Appthority

Hi, JS,

I understood why my first submission was declined. What helped the most was spending about 2 hours reading the interactions between authors & editors on the Help Desk. To make certain that the second submission improved on the standards required, I searched Wikipedia for a company of similar size, offering similar services, and in the same mobile security industry. I then “matched” its entries, i.e., types of statements, types of sources, etc.

Basically, I used Veracode as a template for writing an acceptable article, which is the article you recently reviewed & declined. Can you also help me understand why the Appthority article fails to meet Wiki’s standard, while it closely matches the tone & notability of the article judged acceptable for a similar company.

Thanks, JS,

Ross IASGAIR2014

Oh, and I’ve been using the 3 links below… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JSFarman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Appthority — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.213.69.110 (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ross (talk). The tone is good, but you haven't established notability. You need to add references - citations that are independent, reliable, and non-trivial. (Veracode has listed 19 sources.) Check out WP:Notability. Hope that helps! Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Julie,

Yes, now is 121913, and I do see that I no longer exist, so I hope this reaches you. Several other methods I've used to respond to your ~121613 message seem to have placed me into a "loop" that never allows me to "Send" you a response. So, if you do receive this message, would it be okay for me to send you the original submission? Because the original submission did include Sources [about 20, which were all rejected]. I'm ok if you also reject all of them, but I think I'll be more likely to resubmit a more suitable text if I understand what part of the original article meets Wikipedia standards - and what Statements or Sources fail to do that. Basically, will you judge why the original submission - with Sources - was rejected? Thanks, Julie...Ross...or FromTighCalan (talk) 01:52, 20 December 2013 (UTC).[reply]

Article Creation / Submission: Appthority, A Company

Oops, my cat "Pup" just landed on the keyboard again, and he's done what I have no idea of how to undo. So there's lots of space between this text & my original response, below. Hope that's created no problems!

Thanks, Julie, this helps a lot. I just need to look at my first declined submission to see how many resources I used in it. I do remember that most were rejected as being "sources within the industry," and therefore lacking the standard of using second-source material. My memory also recalls that many of the Veracode sources are in the same category as those rejecyed in my original submission. But I'm sometimes wrong regarding memory, so I'll be back in touch once I know what I remember is correct. Or not.

Thanks, again, Julie, Ross — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD54:56E0:F830:7202:16:97CE (talk) 02:53, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again 2602:306:CD54:56E0:F830:7202:16:97CE (talk) Ross - ! Glad I could help. Not sure why I reference would be rejected for being "sources within the industry" - trade publications, etc, are considered independent/reliable. Maybe it was because the sources were papers/articles were published in a journal/publication related to Appthority? (There are so many areas that don't get covered by the mainstream media -- without trade journals a lot of worthy people/companies etc. wouldn't be able to establish notability.) Look forward to seeing the revisions, and say hello to Pup. (I have dogs. Thankfully they stay away from my PC.) Julie JSFarman (talk) 00:07, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, JSF,

I understood why my first Appthority submission was declined. What most helped to understand submission guidelines was spending 2+ hours monitoring the interactions between authors & editors on the Help Desk.

After that session, and to make certain that the second submission improved on the standards required, I searched Wikipedia for a company of similar size, offering similar services, and in the same mobile security industry.

Basically, I used Veracode as a template for writing an acceptable article. I then “matched” its entries, i.e., types of statements, types of sources, etc. My second submission, based on this approach of matching a similar entry, and already accepted entry, is the article you recently reviewed & declined.

Can you now help me understand why the Appthority article fails to meet Wiki’s standard, while it closely matches the tone & notability of the article already judged acceptable for a similar company.

Oh, and the first Appthority article submitted, but initially rejected, also listed numerous [20] sources. However, these sources themselves were among the reasons for rejection, because they failed to meet the third-party requirement, were industry-related reporting, were videos and/or interviews, etc.

So, I remain confused as to what is acceptable as an article, given the following examples of the 19 sources [listed below] that validate the Veracode entry…and which closely resemble the Appthority sources considered to be unacceptable.

16 of 19 VERACODE RESOURCES THAT FAIL TO MEET WIKIPEDIA STANDARDS

Sources 1, 5, 6 , 7 & 18 are “industry publications” Sources 2, 15 & 19 go to pages that read: “Unable to find/open this file ” Source 3 goes to: “Page not found ” Sources 4, 9, 10 & 11 go to: “Veracode website” Sources 8 is a a WSJ article and, therefore, probably noteworthy Sources 12 is an interview with a Veracode officer Sources 13 & 14 − as published texts − easily meet Wiki standards Sources 16 is a company-produced PDF Sources 17 is a video My understanding of Wikipedia’s standards is that I would need to provide more than 3 of 19 Resources for establishing the notability of my subject, and its resulting acceptance on Wikipedia.

I’m hoping that you can understand my current confusion. Thanks, JSF Ross

Oh, and I’ve been using the 3 links below… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JSFarman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Appthority

Hi, I tried to leave a message on the User page associated with the article, but it no longer exists, so I left it on what I hope is your reconstructed talk page.

Take a look at the article as it now stands. I don't see any references at all, and the formatting makes it difficult to read. Re: Veracode, please see OSE. Thanks, Ross. Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:13, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, JSFarman. You have new messages at Talk:Greg Kurstin production discography.
Message added Chihciboy (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

I addressed your concerns on the talk page. Thanks for your comments! Chihciboy (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 2013 - January 2014 AfC Backlog Elimination Drive

I noticed that you have signed up for the drive. Please note that the AFCBuddy script does not appear to be functioning at this time. Therefore, user Backlog Elimination Drive log pages will need to be manually updated. Northamerica1000^(talk) 04:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Articles For Creation/Dynasty (Hip Hop Artist)

Hi JS,

Thank you for the feedback on the article. I understood your notes, made the changes, and resubmitted. I am hoping that it will now meet the guidelines as everything else seemed to be okay. Would you mind taking a look at it when you have a moment?

Thank you again for your time. Dreampusher (talk) 14:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good morning (or afternoon, or evening) Dreampusher (talk) - It's definitely better but it still needs some editing. I'll do what I can when I have some time, but in the interim, can you fix the formatting on the references? I did The Tampa Bay paper so you can see what it should look like. (Ref #4.) Just use the pull down menu in the tool bar and select "cite web" - a template will appear - fill in the required info. (Last name of writer, first name, title of article, URL, date the article ran, name of publication, date you accessed it.) Also, punctuation goes before refs - it's an easy fix since you'll already be reinserting the cites. Thanks! Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:04, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Julie,

I appreciate the prompt reply and the example of how to properly format the citations. I went ahead and corrected all of them.

Thanks for any assistance that you can offer in getting this article up to par!

Dreampusher (talk) 21:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again Dreampusher (talk) - and thanks for the thanks AND for fixing the cites! I did a copy edit - added an infobox, another ref, and moved BET to the top of the article. But when I did a search, more articles on Dynasty appeared. Can you give it one more shot and see if you can pump the entry up a bit? She's cool - seems like there may be more to the story! Thanks! Julie

That's awesome of you. Thank you.

I have been searching for more articles on her and trying to decide what more I should add. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. In the meantime, I will do a bit more research and see what I can do to contribute a little more. It's looking really good!

Thank you again.

Dreampusher (talk) 15:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Julie! I can see why you got into this, it is pretty exciting building this thing. I may try my hand at another article in another time. You really learn a lot when you go digging!

I was able to find some more information and added a career highlights section and a personal life section. Please take a look when you have a moment.

Dreampusher (talk) 17:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hiya Dreampusher (talk) - TOTALLY ADDICTIVE! I hope you do contribute more!

Notes below:

In 2009, after opening for Krs-One, she was pulled back on to the stage by the world-renowned artist (WORLD RENOWNED ISN'T APPROPRIATE) to perform with him. When she was done, KRS proudly proclaimed (PROUDLY SHOULD GO - "STATED" WOULD PROBABLY BE A BETTER CHOICE BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION). "THIS is a real emcee."[12] In 2010, she was once again called out on stage to perform with a major headlining ("MAJOR" NEEDS TO GO.) act. This time it was Smif-n-Wessun of Duck Down Music Inc. during their 15th Anniversary Tour. [13] She went on to do three more stops with them on this tour.

Dynasty has been featured on hip hop culture and music websites including 2DopeBoyz.com,[14] BET.com,[1] HipHopDX.com,[15] and Centric. [16]

Personal life[edit]

While Dynasty tends to address a wide variety of topics in her music, (YOU NEED TO REFERENCE THIS THROUGH RELIABLE INDEPENDENT SOURCE) one of her main causes is developing and mentoring youth.[17] She frequently mentions this in interviews, encouraging young people, and adults alike, to discover and hold on to their dreams. (REFERENCE THE FREQUENT MENTIONS.) She says "figure out what your dream is, chart your course and work on it every day. One more thing, expect no one to be as passionate about your dream as you." [18] She frequently visits a variety of youth programs and for the last two years, (WHAT ARE THE YOUTH PROGRAMS SHE FREQUENTLY VISITS? DOCUMENT THEM.) She has volunteered as a part of The Great American Teach In

Just watch the tone - remember encyclopedic, neutral. Great job though - write on! Julie

Hey Julie!

Thanks for the feedback. I think I've got it! Check it out. :)

Thank you.

Dreampusher (talk) 20:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at AfC Julie Chaiken was accepted

Julie Chaiken, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Laun chba ller 07:16, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Julie Chaiken

Sorry about that - I operate a lot of tabs, and the one on Julie Chaiken got a bit lost. I've accepted it.--Laun chba ller 07:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are a superstar, Laun chba ller! Thank you! Julie

Knowmad Adventures

Hi there, it has come to my attention that you declined the submission of the Knowmad Adventures wiki page. I am just looking for a little direction to make the correct edits and move forward with this article. Thanks so much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1:9C80:426:5470:EAE9:82D4:E11B (talk) 06:36, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 2601:1:9C80:426:5470:EAE9:82D4:E11B (talk)- Can you send me a link to the Knowmad Adventures submission? I can't seem to find it. Thanks! Julie

Hi Julie. Of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Knowmad_Advnetures . As you can see this link says Knowmad-Advnetures at the end, which is a typo and was changed, but I think for now this is still the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.65.132 (talk) 20:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. When I declined the article, I did it on the basis of the references; I didn't dig into the content too much. That said, getting the article to the point where it'll work for Wikipedia will require more than referencing.

As for references, they need to be independent of the subject of the article, and non-trivial. Two of the five references you've used are from Knowmad; I couldn't find a mention of Knowmad via the "Sustainable Travel" link, and the remaining two references don't provide in-depth coverage. (They can be used to confirm that the company was in Frommer's and recognized by T&L.) So, essentially, the entire article needs to be referenced. Every statement of fact about the company and the programs need to be confirmed via a reliable, independent source.

There's also an issue with tone. It needs to be neutral, and the content must be encyclopedic. For example, Knowmad Adventures is a travel consultancy and trip operator that focuses on active, authentic, and sustainable travel to South America. They offer private and custom trips to some of the most sought after destinations in the Southern Hemisphere...' "active" "authentic" and "sought-after" aren't neutral terms. If the company offers sustainable travel, you need to prove it through an independent source. I could go through the entire article and come up with similar examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. My advice is to find the sources first, and write the article based on what you can substantiate.

Finally, the article reads lik advertising in some place - please read WP:NPOV in addition to WP:CORP, and WP:V. Also - if you happen to work for or be associated with Knowmad, check out WP:COI and proceed accordingly.

Happy to answer further questions when you get through the essential fixes! Thanks and good luck. Julie