User talk:Indefatigable2

High Seas Fleet

You may want to ask yourself why the fleet that "didn't exist" had a commander until January 1919 (though even that table in incomplete, as Reuter replaced Harder that month). In any event, the article makes no claim as to when the fleet ceased to exist, so you'll need to provide a source for your claims. Parsecboy (talk) 21:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

There we go, specific dates. We're done here. Parsecboy (talk) 22:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

On 11 Nov 1918, Germany agreed to disarm its entire navy. Whatever else you want to call it, that is not an "active battle fleet." Also, I never used the phrase "didn't exist." Indefatigable2 ^talk 22:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Be that as it may, neither of those dates are correct, as I have established. Your opinion is not what we use to write articles. Parsecboy (talk) 22:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I am not completely sure what you mean, but I have no further input to this either way. I will simply repeat, once more, I never used the phrase "didn't exist."Indefatigable2 ^talk 22:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Star of India

Hello! I hope you are doing well. You mentioned in your edit summary that you could not find sources that refer to the Flag of British India as the Star of India, though I wish to point out a few, such as this one (published by Penguin), this one (published by National Geographic), and this one (published by Cambridge Scholars Publication). I am okay with Flags of British India, but I think that the original title was more precise. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. With regards, Anupam^Talk 18:39, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for these sources. However, this National Geographic book from 1917, which is the only period source of these three, does not actually call the flag itself the "Star of India"—it only says the various Raj flags used the Star as an emblem (E.g., on page 384 it says: "The Governor General of India flies the...union jack, with the star of India crowned," and the "Indian marine flies the blue ensign of Great Britain, with the star of India in the fly"). The only source I have seen that directly says "Star of India" was the name of the flag is this Cambridge Scholars book from 2012, and I think this actually a mistake by the author. Some writers have referred to the banner as the "Star of India flag" in passing, in a paper or book (as, for example, in this paper: "A Symbol of Freedom": The Indian Flag and the Transformations of Nationalism, 1906-2002) but this does not mean this was the official, or common, name of the flag. Yet either way, I think it's worth saying that many of the flags displayed on the page do not even use the Star of India, and the Company flags are from many years before the Star of India was even created, so I think "Flags of British India" is indeed a better title, regardless. Indefatigable2 ^talk 19:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Indefatigable:

Though never official the flag of G-G & Viceroy of India was used for the purpose of representing India internationally (like 1936 Olympics). But there are many instances where the civil ensign was also used (like 1945 United Nations). As for flag that was used within India, it was the Union Jack. There is lot of inconsistency among sources but the collective term Star of India is most suitable for the title of article on Wikipedia.

As per WP:COMMONNAME, the Star of India flag is presently the name most commonly used (at least in India) when referring to the flags that were used during British rule, as the flag incorporated the symbol of the Order of Star of India.

Same could be said about other flags like the Grand Union Flag of the thirteenth colonies, where the name was coined much later in the 19th century, years after it had already been ceased to be used. Same is the case with the British Indian flag, where the unofficial name of the flag had been title of the article in use for well over 15 years on Wikipedia.

Regards Bairagi Ram (talk) 19:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

These sources use the term "Star of India flag," they don't simply call the flag itself the "Star of India." There is a difference. Just one example, of many, of this usage can be found here: (http://inhcrf.org/blogs/the-story-of-the-indian-flag-and-first-stamps-of-independent-india/). I have placed the term in the intro of the article, with three citations and an explanation. Also, as I stated, there are many flags on this page that do not use the Star, or date from many years before the Star was even created, such as the Company flags, so calling the entire page itself "Star of India flag" is not accurate, as there are many flags under both the Raj and Company Rule that did not use the star. "Flags of British India," on the other hand, covers everything on the page. Indefatigable2 ^talk 19:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I am implying that the name of the flag is called so because of the symbol used within and it has become a more commonly used term to call the flag as a whole Star of India (see WP:COMMONNAME). As for the Company flags they have their own article and only used in this article under the History section. Flags without the Star comes under Other flags section. The main content of the article are the flags with the Star. There is no other article for the British Indian flags, so flags without the Star are also mentioned here only. Also if you want we could take this discussion to article's talk page, so it could reach more editors, so that their opinions will help in reaching a consensus. Bairagi Ram (talk) 19:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

This page also covers a dozen state merchant flags, the flag of the Trustees of the Port of Bombay, the flag of the Conservator of the Port of Bombay, the Commissioners of the Port of Calcutta flag, the Indian Local Maritime Government flag, the flags of the Presidencies, Lord Mountbatten's proposed flags, and the Naval jack of the Royal Indian Marine, among others, none of which use the Star in their design. Indefatigable2 ^talk 20:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

And moreover, only some of these are in the "Other flags" section. In other words, there are too many Raj and Company flags discussed to simply call this whole page "Star of India (flag)" either way. Especially if there is no source being mentioned—except maybe one very questionable sentence in a book—that has been cited to call the flag itself "Star of India." Perhaps it is called that, but where is the source? By contrast, the phrase "Star of India flag" is used in a number of sources. But again, either way, there are many designs discussed on the page aside from the Star of India banner. Indefatigable2 ^talk 20:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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