User talk:HeikkiHerttuainen

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Uusikuu (August 24)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

The sources cited are primary and/or provide only passing mentions. The one exception to this is Finntastic.de, but it may not be fully independent and reliable, and in any case is not alone enough to satisfy WP:GNG. There is also nothing in this draft to suggest that notability per WP:BAND is met.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Uusikuu and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, HeikkiHerttuainen! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DoubleGrazing! Thanks for your messages and the feedback. In terms of "notability" I understand that this is more about the sources used than the standing of the band within the music industry etc. - there are plenty of newspaper articles about the band too and radio programmes etc. Would that be more preferrable? I was going simply for "factual" references for the collaborations section, for instance, just to provide detail of when and where the band has done collaboration with these other artists and bands but perhaps that is missing the point? HeikkiHerttuainen (talk) 13:00, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, first and foremost you need to show that this band is notable, as that determines whether the article can be accepted or not. Notability per WP:GNG requires significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable secondary sources. Passing mentions, press releases, tour/gig announcements, interviews, etc. don't count, as don't any primary sources. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:08, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! So, just to be sure, I have now removed the "factual" primary links and replaced many of them with links to independent sources, mainly to newspapers and other media outlets. Before I resubmit, can I check if interviews really don't count. We have, for instance, multiple interviews by national radio stations or major newspapers and even being interviewed by, say, German national radio, could be considered as evidence of notability. But perhaps it isn't? HeikkiHerttuainen (talk) 13:42, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's a good point, interviews can be a bit of a grey area. It basically depends on the quality of the media outlet in question. Some, eg. the likes of DW or Yle, are likely to fact-check what the interviewee says, and edit accordingly. Others (and I've no particular examples to give here, but you can probably use your imagination!) will just accept anything at face value, which means that the interview becomes an unverified, non-independent and potentially non-reliable primary source, ie. the interviewee and whatever agenda they are pushing.

Even then, I wouldn't want to rely on interviews only, no matter how solid the source, because they are likely to be challenged at review. But if you have, say, 3+ non-interview sources, then adding one or two interviews on top shouldn't hurt. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:09, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Superb - that's very helpful indeed! Thanks for your support. I had a slightly different understanding of what the purpose of the references in Wikipedia articles were but I now understand the logic behind this a lot better. I might start contributing more often though I can see how this could also be a rather time-consuming hobby! Once you start, it might be difficult to let go... HeikkiHerttuainen (talk) 14:15, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It can get quite addictive, indeed. :)

Still on the topic of referencing, I'll just add that sources serve two main purposes, which are related but separate. The first is notability, as already mentioned: Wikipedia mainly exists to summarise what other, reliable sources have already said about a subject, and that is taken to such an extent that if no sources have said anything of substance, then the subject is deemed non-notable, and an article on it won't be accepted. For this, you need significant coverage in independent secondary sources, per WP:GNG.

The other purpose is to verify what the article says, ie. that the content is factually correct. For this, the source doesn't need to provide significant coverage, or even be independent in some cases, as long as it is reliable (WP:RS). For example in your case, if this band's website says that they were set up in Tübingen, that is quite an uncontroversial fact, and can be taken more or less at face value even though the source is the subject itself.

Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:35, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hi HeikkiHerttuainen! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

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Happy editing! DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:59, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

Hi HeikkiHerttuainen! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Notability criteria for entry, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

You can still read the archived discussion. If you have follow-up questions, please create a new thread.

See also the help page about the archival process. The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} on top of the current page (your user talk page). Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Uusikuu has been accepted

Uusikuu, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thanks again, and happy editing!

DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]