User talk:Headbomb/Archives/2020/October

I hate Wikipedia! The technology part is awful and I need help.

So I am working away on a new article and finally find after days of searching with help from my friend Sue, the Ebony piece I need. I formatted the reference the same way I always do and it will not let me save it with the EBSCO permalink. So...what has changed? Why can I not input this link? I have always been able to before. I keep getting some message about a proxy link but there is nothing in the link that indicates that it is a proxy (to me anyway), unless that is technobabble for you must sign in with a subscription. I write, I do not program. I do not understand why the help screen is unintelligible or why as a writer I should have to know all this technical coding stuff. So, I go to take out the link and try to save it and it tells me I am not logged in. Not wanting to lose all of my work, I go to another WP page I already have open which clearly shows I am logged in. I go back to the one I'm trying to save and nope, it wants me to enter captcha info and tells me I am not logged in. I go back to the other screen, type in my file name hit edit and just copy and paste the whole thing over what is already there. It saves. So...what the heck just happened? How do I put the permalink in the Johnson ref on EBSCO? Sorry to bother you, but this is beyond me and you are a lifesaver to me when I get in over my head. SusunW (talk) 22:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@SusunW: Not sure what caused that exactly (if I knew what the link you were trying to add was I would be more certain, you can post it here, using spaces like so https:// www.ebscohost.com/...). But you're likely tripping edit filter 892. If so, that probably means you are using links that cannot be used by anyone but you or the institution through which you have access to EBSCO. Those links are a user-hostile plague, and they will not work for 99.9% of people, even those with access to ESBO, because proxylinks only work for people from that specific institution. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

So, you cannot see it above in the post? No matter http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=f6h&AN=48968860&site=ehost-live ... I don't have access to EBSCO, but have always been able to input the links before that Sue sent. But the whole you are logged off thing was completely bizarre too. I even made my husband come look at it to tell me I wasn't crazy. If it doesn't cause a problem to just leave it out and show the Accession Number and that it needs a subscription, I guess I can just leave the link out. But I think I need the notice that it requires a subscription (Google only digitized from November 1950 and the only place you can get 1945 to October 1950 is EBSCO). SusunW (talk) 22:28, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

If that's the actual link you're trying to add, it doesn't look like it's trying to force access via a specific institution. It could that the filter is overly aggressive and needs tuning. I'll do a bit of digging. Either way I won't even be able to see what's on the other end of that link, and so will 99%+ of readers, so omitting it doesn't hurt anything. I would even argue it encourages someone to upload a free full version of the article somewhere. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I am sure you will be unsurprised that I have no earthly clue how to do that. But, you did make me laugh. I could e-mail it to you ;) SusunW (talk) 22:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

@Beetstra:, any insights here? You're the one that added EBSCO to 892. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:39, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for you help and for having the skills to fix things when I am clueless. I will be off for the night, but will check back in the morning to see if there is any update. I truly appreciate you. SusunW (talk) 22:44, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, if you are talking about your Mary Dee piece, it's a very interesting article. Good luck with it. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:11, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, I tried the link, it is completely useless for anyone who does not have a login. No information, nothing, just a login window. And it is a search result? I have no clue what you want to add there.

There is no publicly visible information page? Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 05:02, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Beetstra, as I said above there is no publicly visible anything for issues of Ebony from 1945 to October 1950. I wrote to them and they advised the only way to access those years is through EBSCO or a library with a hard copy. I had a really hard time figuring out what issue she appeared in, so I figure anyone else trying to find information will have the same trouble. For those who have access to EBSCO, that permalink should take them to the article, but I cannot input it as it 1) wouldn't let me save and 2) apparently logged my active screen off when I tried to save. Why any of those 2 things happened is beyond my understanding. SusunW (talk) 05:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, the logout event is unrelated, I am being logged out continuously, as are my bots.

Ebsco is a problem. It allows to link to anything without us knowing what one really is linking to (unless you have ebsco access). People link through ebsco to material that we explicitly exclude (blacklisted material). As far as I can see however, you should be able to link to a record, is this what you need? Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 06:21, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

That's the same article - is there a way to convert the search.ebscohost link to that one by bot? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Nikkimaria, if ‘AN=< number >‘ is in the url then anyone with AWB/JWB can do it (I adapted the filter message accordingly). But I am not sure if all have it. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 12:40, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Regarding filter 892 - Citation bot is now de-proxying proxied links (see, for example, this edit). Would it not be preferable to let editors add whichever link they have access to, then have the bot make it accessible to everyone else afterwards? Sam Walton (talk) 08:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Samwalton9, are you sure that it also does http://search.ebscohost.com.mxcc.idm.oclc.org/login.aspx?direct=true&db=n5h&AN=200109152091287313&site=ehost-live and https://ezproxy.rcc.edu:2078/ehost/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?vid=5&sid=89cbbdb7-1124-4bd4-b261-81c9fb396c58%40sessionmgr4006 ? Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 11:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

(I agree, IF the bot can do all of these; some proxy links have a DOI and are ‘decodable’, others are just a sessionID, where I don’t think anyone can recognise anything once the session is gone). Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 11:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

And, seen the link is there, it may not one be that was targeted by the filter. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 11:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@AManWithNoPlan: would need to clarify - the former should qualify since it's a simple idm.oclc.org address. The latter maybe not so much. Sam Walton (talk) 11:22, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@Samwalton9 and AManWithNoPlan:, feel free to adapt the filter to fit either needs. Lets remove the ones that can be extracted (some ebsco can it turns out, like the first one), leaving the ones that are ‘useless’. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 11:55, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

wikimedia asked us to clean up the idm.oclc.org urls, since almost no one can access them. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 12:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Beetstra That is the correct article and I appreciate knowing it was just coincidence that I was logged off. To me, it seemed as if it was all one related event, so good to know they weren't. I do know that it is very disconcerting to not be able to save the page and my work and think that it is expecting too much of the average content creator to require them to know how to convert a link to some other link. I would not be able to do that and I do not understand any of the conversation beyond your query, so I am still confused. I do really appreciate the help but have no idea how you found that link or how I could possibly have acquired it. Can I use the link you provided? If I run across this situation again, will I be able to add the link, or I should just never add a link to EBSCO? And Headbomb, thank you for helping me. I truly appreciate being able to have your help to sort out technology issues. SusunW (talk) 14:12, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

The key part is being familiar with URLs syntax recognizing that &AN=48968860 probably has some meaning. Then if you dig around EBSCO, you find that AN probably stands for Accession Number and then see if there are publicly viewable pages featuring accession numbers in there URL (e.g. http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/48968860). It's not the most obvious thing to do. But if you have EBSCO links to add in the future, those from http://connection.ebscohost.com should certainly be fine to add. The search engine doesn't seem to be very good though. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:39, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, I think the accession number at connection.ebscohost.com is the way to go (http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/48968860 for this article). I have update the edit-filter warning with this information in the collapsed box. That being said, I think I should exclude ebsco-links with 'AN=' in it in the filter, and see if some interested bot-operator is willing to follow up and rewrite the URLs that were added.

We come across a lot of really useless 'proxy' links, many via ebsco. Links like https://ezproxy.rcc.edu:2078/ehost/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?vid=5&sid=89cbbdb7-1124-4bd4-b261-81c9fb396c58%40sessionmgr4006 work for the editor, but that link literary does not exist anymore as soon as the editor logged out from ezproxy.rcc.edu. We never can know what they linked to. We therefore stop those links from being added and ask for a permanent link. Until now, I did not know that ebsco had, for some links, a workaround in taking the 'AN' (others don't, e.g. http://eds.a.ebscohost.com/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=3b0113ac-a812-4a0e-bd73-ee932d111b24@sessionmgr4005&vid=30&hid=4102 is utterly useless for everyone). Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:02, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you both. I was able to add that link. I will see if in the future trying to find an EBSCO link at connection.ebscohost.com eliminates the problem. I'd love to not use them, but when they are the only source, it is difficult to avoid. SusunW (talk) 15:22, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, there is no problem with hat link, or material on ebscohost as far as I can see, just that most of their links render to be rather useless. I think that ebscohost would do good in offering more friendly links within their system. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 20:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Alternative Views

Hi Headbomb

This edit[1] to Template:WikiProject Alternative Views has left the template populating lots of non-existent assessment categories, e.g. Category:Stub-Class Alternative views articles instead of the extant Category:Stub-Class Alternative Views articles.

Do you want to revert that edit? Or you are going to move and update the assessment categories? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'll revert it for now, but I'll likely move everything soon. Just don't have the time to do it right now. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 06:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Moving assessment cats is a bit of a pain. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:49, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

A History of the Theories of Aether and Electricity

Hi Headbomb, I know you are busy, but if you have some spare time at some point, would you mind re-evaluating A History of the Theories of Aether and Electricity in light of all the work I have put into it since its initial evaluation? I think it is much closer to a good article (at least it is more exhaustive) now and was wondering what you think about it and how you think it could improve. Thank you for your time.Footlessmouse (talk) 00:37, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Vixra isn't the source

In your revisions to Hash Table, you have deleted useful correct information, and therefore left the article incomplete and misleading. This is not appropriate.

Vixra is not a source. Vixra is a repository for papers; the paper's author is the source.

So ... You want me to track down an author/categroy combination for an arxiv deposit; then track down Wiki editors; and ... Whatever? Life is too short.

But out of curiosity, do you have even the slightest reason to suspect that the useful text you DELETED is incorrect? Do you even know anything about Hash Tables? Jamesdowallen (talk) 13:39, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jamesdowallen: viXra papers are not peer-reviewed, and do not constitute reliable sources. In the words of Gerard 't Hooft, When a paper is published in viXra, it is usually a sign that it is not likely to contain acceptable results. It may, but the odds against that are considerable. See also Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth and WP:SELFCITE/WP:SELFPUB. If your results are valid, submit them to a well-regarded peer-reviewed journal like Combinatorica or Combinatorics, Probability and Computing. Then they will be suitable for Wikipedia. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:05, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Critical Criminology (journal)

Hi Headbomb. You reverted my change of name for this journal. While it is usually cited under its short title of Critical Criminology, the subtitle is clearly shown on the cover, and the National Library of Australia has catalogued it under its full name, including the subtitle. Also, if you google, you will find a May 2013 Facebook post by the Critical Criminology page that clearly cites the journal as Critical Criminology: An International Journal. I believe that the Wikipedia article title should concur with the library authority. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

P.S. Also, Worldcat. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

@Laterthanyouthink: An International Journal is a subtitle, and pure fluff. Some catalogues will include subtitles, most won't (e.g. [2], [3]). WP:JWG says to omit fluff subtitles, mostly because when the journal is cited, it is usually cited as Critical Criminology and WP:COMMONNAME applies. See also the actual journal. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:14, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I was unaware of that rule - which goes against library cataloguing rules, where subtitles are always included. (Citing sources, as in your example above, uses different rules different from an authority record for a title in a library.) But if that's what Wikipedia does, then I accept that different rules apply here. Thanks. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Repeated edits to highly-transcluded templates

When you're editing templates with a lot of transclusions (like Template:DYK talk), can you try to batch up your edits, to avoid unnecessarily adding millions of jobs to the job queue? mw:Extension:TemplateSandbox (and optionally User:Jackmcbarn/advancedtemplatesandbox.js let you test changes on real pages without having to save anything, which may make that easier. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I'll look into those script, but for this specific bunch of edits, there was namespace logic issues which made things look fine when they weren't in preview, and was hard to nail down in a sandbox. And since this looked for errors, it was hard to anticipate all cases. There's still more changes to come. And this didn't add millions of jobs to the job queue, it added a most ~90,000, which takes less than a day to clear. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Didn't each of your 25 edits add 90,000 jobs? If so, that does indeed work out to a bit over 2 million. Also, I'm curious what kinds of problems TemplateSandbox can't catch; I thought that it was basically perfect by now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:22, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

It's not additive. If the job queue goes down from say 90,000 to 89,000 over 20 minutes, and I make another edit, then it resets back to 90,000. And the sandbox is in the template namespace, which means that the ... part of {{#ifeq:User talk|Talk|...}}, which was what was being tested, doesn't ever come up in the sandbox. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

By using that extension, you can preview what a real talk page looks like with your changes, so {{NAMESPACE}} would then evaluate to "Talk". Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Please tag

Please kindly tag Singer-songwriters to my contribution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:BJ_Sam Rubiesar (talk) 18:53, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@Rubiesar: I have no idea what it is you're asking of me. I suggest you review the "Where to get help" section in the brown box the top of the page if you have questions about your draft. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Brief comment on Bach's organ music

As you are probably know, I have written a lot of content on Bach organ music. Apart from BWV 552 (part of Clavier-Übung III), I have only edited works on sacred music (chorale preludes), so have avoided the preludes and fugues. I have a lot of experience of how to access jstor for music. (Most recently I used the Musical Times for the biography and obituary of John Troutbeck; he provided the English translations for the text of BWV 8.) I usually the url of jstor to access references, although sometimes subscription is required. The same is true for mathematics; but I use it far more links through mathscinet, but assuming availability by subscription. I am unable to understand the tagging. Mathsci (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand your question, if you have one. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:24, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I was just pointing out that I know how jstor works. A url is usually adequate. I also gave an example from Musical Times from 1899, freely accessible:

"The Rev. Dr. Troutbeck", The Musical Times and Singing Class Circular, 40 (675), Musical Times: 297–301, 1899, doi:10.2307/3368809, JSTOR 3368809

So there was no question, just a brief comment. In this case I used the jstor number and the link to the pdf file. Mathsci (talk) 22:59, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

October 2020

Please stop trying to edit simultaneouusly. You don't have the material and seem to be involving yourself in some knd of childish competition. Please stop this. Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 06:14, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

How about you stop trying to legislate who can or can't edit the page. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 06:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Please don't edit at the same time as me. That creates edit conflicts and does not help in redistributing in-line refrneces where you seem to have no particular knowledge. The mis-spelling of Morricone as a subheading was also not helpful. Mathsci (talk) 01:15, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Or, how about you don't edit at the same time as me? It takes two to edit conflict. You do not have monopoly on article editing time. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 02:24, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Your editing, particularly on matters concerning Reger, seems to show very little knowledge about this material. In the case of the "Alpha and Omega" quotes, three references are needed to clarify the material. There is commentary by Anderson, Frisch and Rollings where a more nuanced commentary concerning "German nationalism" is discussed. Two English translations were combined, but Frisch was the main source. The edits made by you while an in-use tag place was there did not to be carefully considered. Mathsci (talk) 03:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I changed diddly squat in article content. And frankly, I tire of your WP:ABF snobbish attitude here. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Frontiers Media

Hello Headbomb! In June, I suggested updates to the list of journals in the Frontiers Media article. In our discussion on the article Talk page, you made a couple suggestions to improve my suggested update. Given that feedback, I adjusted my proposed text. Are you able to revisit that request?

Best, JBFrontiers (talk) 14:56, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

ec at Home Army

I think I undid your edit as I removed some other content and yours was in between. Could you restore your edit? I am having trouble doing it myself easily. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:34, 30 October 2020 (UTC)