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Archive: Hayford Peirce Discussion #1

Vance page

Hayford, what about Arvin Sloan's defence of that article he claims is yours? If I am not misunderstanding the dissussion, you seem to disaprove of it's prolix speculations as much as I do (with respect to wikipedia standards). If so, can we get together on this? Can we not get together on the Vance page in general? I also know David Alexander (and Vance).--PaulRhoads 20:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Riggs Edit

Hi Hayford - My first edit ever to Wikipedia was to point out the unequal terms of the Riggs-King match, an edit I made first at the King article. The Riggs article went deeper still into the details of the match, but still without mentioning Riggs' "spot" to King. I'm just afraid that my attempt to balance out the record was clumsy, and that someone more invested in the article as a whole might be able to integrate those facts a bit better than I did. I guess I hope that's you. Rob Hunt


Hello Hayford, welcome to Wikipedia. You might like to start by reading the tutorial and introducing yourself at the new users page. I noticed Wikipedia has an article on you. You might want to check out the Wikipedia:Auto-biography page and be aware that some Wikipedians take a dim view of people writing about areas they are too personally involved with, so you may want to take this into account before editing the article about yourself, or your own works. If you have any questions, you can ask at the help desk or on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian. :) Angela. 20:51, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

A quick hint. Can you make it explicit that fictional characters are fictional characters please? Dunc_Harris|☺ 20:53, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Geez, I thought I had. But I'll check again on this.Hayford Peirce 20:55, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OKay, no problem, I wasn't trying to bite you - what I have done though is listed Hayford Peirce for cleanup. You can write your own autobiography in you user area at User:Hayford Peirce, but generally it is regarded as poor form to write your own autobiography (see Wikipedia:autobiography); I think you merit inclusion, but that article is far too long and contains far too much irrelevant information. Hope that helps, ask me if you have any questions.

Cheers, Dunc_Harris|☺ 21:00, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sure, I'll clean it up, no hoohah, cobber. Just as a general idea, what's a maximum number of words for a minor writer like me?Hayford Peirce 21:20, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi Hayford. Wikipedia isn't running out of space, so there is no limit to how big or small an article can be. It is a general rule that articles shouldn't exceed 32k in size, because some older browsers cannot edit a page larger than 32k. If I were you I would ignore the suggestion that the article on you is too long. BTW Napoleon Disentimed is one of my favourite books I've read it several times, I remember laughing out when the real Napoleon croaks. From time to time I have wondered whether you published any books after Phylum Monsters, but I have to admit that I seldom read Sf/Fantasy anymore and I haven't looked out for your name for quite a while. Mintguy (T) 22:19, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi Mintguy, Thanks for the kind words! I've already cut my article drastically -- maybe later I can go back and fill in a little bit. It's very hard to know precisely what to put in or not when writing about oneself, so an autobio either tends to be a little too short or much too long! But I *do* think that Wikipedia ought to be encouraging living people to writing about themselves in a substantial way, however, even though this may seem like vanity to others. For instance, right now, the American author Allen Drury, who wrote the famous (and wonderful) Advise and Consent and a *ton* of other books only has a 1-line entry about him. He died a year or so ago at age 90, more or less. It would be nice if someone like him had written several thousand (or more) words about his career, as seen by himself. Now that perspective is lost forever. I think that most people who actually *have* a career, or achievements, worthy of writing about will tend to be over-diffident about themselves if anything. I think that the "vanity" factor that a lot of Wikians worry about is overstated.

Glad to hear that you liked Napoleon. I wrote a sequel that was paid for both by Tor in the U.S. and Bantam in England -- then never published by them. Tor had decided that my books weren't making enough money, grrrrrr. Anyway, it finally got published a year or so ago, after having been published in Germany years ago. If you go to this Amazon site where all of my books are listed you'll see that I wrote a comment about each. "Burr" is actually about my favorite book, by the way -- I hope that someday you might enjoy reading it!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/24T8V2KW0SB5T/qid%3D994444296/sr%3D5-3/ref%3Dlm%5Fb%5F1/104-4034002-4119945 Hayford Peirce 22:39, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome. Could you clarify your addition to Wikipedia:How to use tables regarding column width? I presume you are referring to the limitations on what table elements can be used, in particular the fact that the colgroup and col elements are not supported in wikitext. It is possible to specify a fixed column width using the width attribute of the td or th elements, however:

A cell of width 200 A cell of width 100 A cell of width 50
Some additional text to fill the first column Some additional text to fill the second column Some additional text to fill the third column

Here (at least in my browser, Mozilla Firefox) the longer lines are wrapped to within the specified width. A column width is probably determined by the largest cell for which an explicit width is given, or, if no explicit widths are given, according to the amount of content in the cells. Images can force a cell to be the width of the image, but text can wrap. Anyhow, in an indirect way, it is possible to specify column width. The same also works in the new table syntax. I think this should be clarified somewhat on Wikipedia:How to use tables. Cheers! -- Wapcaplet 03:51, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

p.s. - I just saw your note on the talk page that you were having troubles with column width on Professional Tennis Championships. I'd be glad to help! Let me know what adjustments you were trying to make and I'll see what I can do. -- Wapcaplet 03:58, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

    • Well, I'm glad to know that it can be done -- but I still don't see how! Well, now that I'm writing this, I see above what your codes apparently are -- I'll grab one and take it over to the article and see what happens....
    • It sure ain't intuitive, though....
    • And I typed in a message at what I presume is your talk page when I clicked on Wapcaplet....
    • All the best,
    • HayfordHayford Peirce 04:14, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Having done many years of web development, I understand and can sympathize with your frustration! Unfortunately, it's not terribly easy to force a particular appearance in an HTML document; the end result is often quite different from browser to browser, and from user to user depending on their font preferences and available screen space. I have already touched up the Tennis Championships article, removing the superfluous fourth column and converting to the newer table syntax (which I think you will agree is considerably easier to read and edit). The current version looks fairly good in my browser; I would suggest, if you are looking for a specific column width, to try something like the following in the first row (after the heading) of the table: 

| width="100" | [[1934]] || width="200" | [[Ellsworth Vines]] (United States) || width="200" | [[Hans Nusslein]] (Germany)

(replacing the widths with those you prefer). If absolute values do not give you the desired results, you can specify widths as a percentage of the entire table, i.e. width="25%". Tweak them a bit, and use the "Show preview" button to see how it will look. I hope this helps! -- Wapcaplet 04:21, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)


  • I think that we were both tweaking it at the same time! Right now I think that it looks great! I think that I set the columns at 50, 225, and 225....

As you say, the Web is a strange and mysterious thing!

Many thanks again for your invaluable help, I really appreciate it!Hayford Peirce 04:25, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Tables (still)

I've tidied up Professional Tennis Championships still further, using the Mediawiki standards. I've found that tables are a pain in the neck, as well. A couple of further points:

  1. It seems to be Wikipedia policy that plurals are not used as titles of Wikipedia articles, and so Professional Tennis Championship may be preferred. In which case, the plural could be made into a redirect (using #REDIRECT [[Professional Tennis Championship]]). When you create a link to the main article, you would create it like this "[[Professional Tennis Championship]]s", but it gets displayed with the 's' highlighted as if it were a part of the wikilink.
  2. Discussions with other users are usually carried out on their Talk pages, so when you get to a User's page, you should look for the 'Discuss this page' link, and make your comments there.

(Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs. :-) ) Happy editing! Noisy 09:52, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your compliment about my very minor edit at A Canticle for Leibowitz. :-) I just read it for the first time last week (after seeing it recommended by Eamon Duffy, of all people), and enjoyed it thoroughly, laughing of course as others noted, but also being on the verge of tears at the end (hence my desire to describe the novel as something other than comedy). Glad to know authors in the field share my impression. :-) I hope you're enjoying your time here -- keep up the good work! Jwrosenzweig 19:38, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

John O'Hara; a) nice, b) NPOV?

I like the improvements you're making in the John O'Hara article.

When writing about an author, one wants to include, and I think it is appropriate and important to include, well-accepted consensus judgments about the person's life and works, when they can be buttressed by facts in a reasonably objective way. I feel strongly that encyclopedia articles should not be lifeless, safe, Gradgrind-facts-facts-facts. But whenever possible, the buttressing facts should be mentioned, and the judgments should be stated as "X said Y about Z," where X is recognizable to the reader as someone who ought to know.

To your comment about the epitaph, "it is a remarkable statement," I can only say, "Indeed!" When I added the note about his epitaph, I was strongly tempted to comment on it... "in a literally monumental piece of egotism, his epitaph, written by himself, says..." But I didn't want to present my own opinion, so I just gave the facts without comment, leaving readers to make their own judgement. Actually, now that I think about it, I think perhaps Brendan Gill says something about this in "Here at the New Yorker," I'll have to look and see whether there's something usable there.

Similarly, the paragraph about his snobbery, his prickliness and difficulty, and envy of people who had gone to Ivy League schools, is important and I think factual, but should be buttressed--if preferable, by replacing it by quotations from biographers or obituaries or whatever.

Just my $0.02. [[User:Dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 12:32, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How about a list of notable O'Hara stories?

Just to make your task harder...

By the way, I'm sure there were many more published story collections than are now listed. For example, wasn't there one called "The horse knows the way" or something like that? And "The hat on the bed?" Two things to try in assembling a list: look him up in abebooks, the used-book dealers' site, http://www.abebooks.com. And, of course, library catalogs, many of which are available online, one being http://www.mln.lib.ma.us/ which is of no significance other than being the local library network's combined catalog.

Anyway, rather like Jack London, O'Hara was probably at his best in his short stories, and an ideal article would probably list some of them by name... [[User:Dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 19:56, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I know what you mean. I haven't read any O'Hara in some time, and, as a matter of fact, not one single solitary story comes to mind. However, several of the chapters of Pal Joey, which are really short stories, do. Oddly enough, my favorite O'Hara novels are The Big Laugh and The Instrument. Oh, and Pal Joey.

I think you'd have to say I am not a fan of New Yorker stories. I disliked every Salinger short story I've ever slogged my way through. Some of the Dorothy Parker stories are good, though.

I'm a fan of Jack London, which probably tells you something about my tastes... [[User:Dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:51, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"To Light a Match????!!!!" You mean, of course, "To Build a Fire." A good example of a case where the best-known work is actually, in fact, one of the best and reasonably representative of the author's work. However... I think my personal favorite Jack London story is Samuel, which still sends shivers down my spine. "Moon-Face" to me bears comparison with Poe's "The Tell-tale Heart." You might take a look at an anthology of Jack London stories the next time you're in the library. Although as I say "To Build a Fire" is pretty representative and if it didn't rate more than a shrug, the rest probably won't either. Are you aware that Jack London wrote a goodly number of stories and novels which would probably be classified today as science-fiction or fantasy, had the terms existed today? And Orwell's biographers acknowledge The Iron Heel as one of the influences on Nineteen Eighty-Four. But I am letting my enthusiasm run away with me. [[User:Dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:10, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Modern Library 100

It would appear that an anon 64.228.30.118 must have made it his business to systematically add a line to the article for every book appearing on the Modern Library's list or lists, and it would appear that Simonides is now on a personal crusade to eradicate them all. I think both maneuvers were annoying and stupid. The descriptions 64.228.30.118 used do seem to me to be a bit overly promotional for the Modern Library. But the Modern Library is a pretty distinguished publishing house and their opinion is worth something, I think, and as you noted it's a pretty good list and there aren't a lot of better ones around.

I do happen to be a sysop, by the way but am not sure how far I want to go on this. 1) Sysops are not supposed to protect pages if they are personally involved in a dispute about them and maybe I'm starting to be involved; 2) I don't really think it's all that important; 3) There's a proposal to include the books in a category, a relatively new feature of Wikipedia, which would result in their all being clearly identifiable and listed without including any actual text in the article itself, and that might be a good compromise; 4) I don't have any feeling yet for whether or not it's possible to work with Simonides on this issue.

Unfortunately O'Hara suffers from the problem other authors have suffered from--big popular successes tend to get snubbed by the literary establishment and thus tend to get underrated, and his charming personality probably didn't help.

I do feel strongly that the mention of Appointment in Samarra's being on the Modern Library list should not be removed until and unless someone comes with a better, succinct, objective, neutral indicator of its importance. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 17:34, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Re Simonides.

(Incidentally, be aware that anyone can read what's on this page...)

I don't know exactly how to deal with this sort of thing, but it's not rare on Wikipedia. I haven't had much experience with it, I'm glad to say. If you encounter someone energetic and unreasonable, any sort of resolution is lengthy and problematical. Wikipedia doesn't have any good answer to the problems of bad behavior. In theory there are various procedures; as you've seen you can ask a sysop to protect a page, there are procedures for arbitration and mediation and so forth, but as nearly as I can tell, like lawsuits in real life, they're long, arduous, not very satisfactory, and not to be engaged in lightly. A determined and unreasonable person can simply impose their will for a very, very, very long time, and the ultimate effect of this on Wikipedia is yet to be determined.

So, speaking solely for myself:

Eventually, I'll ask 172, who protected the page, what to do next. You can do so now if you're in more of a hurry than I am. I agree that it doesn't appear that the discussion on the talk page is reaching any resolution yet.

Point number 1: I have to keep firmly focussed on the fact that a) fortunately this is a point I don't care deeply about, and I must not let myself get trapped into thinking I care deeply about it. Simonides has a point. Simply letting him have his way is a perfectly viable option. I care about whether Wikipedia articles are good, and I enjoy writing articles. There are plenty of ways I do this that don't involve inserting mentions of whether a book is on the Modern Library 100 list. I must not going to let myself get distracted by what I think of Simonides' behavior.

If the outcome is that Simonides simply wins on this point because he's willing to spend more of his personal time and psychic energy on it than I am, well, OK. I think he's wrong that the articles are better with the Modern Library mentions removed, but I can't say I think they're much worse.

What I will do when somebody behaves in the same way on a matter that I think is really important is a separate matter; I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, not before.

One option about what to do with the John O'Hara page is: nothing at all. Let it stay protected indefinitely. It's an OK article. No reason why it can't stay like it is for six months or a year. If I think of new things to write about John O'Hara I'll assemble them on the John O'Hara talk page or in my own user space. If I want to add something I'll ask Simonides for permission (yes) to unprotect the page for the purpose of adding that specific material. If he says no I'll just keep assembling it on the Talk page. Yes, I'll be keeping my eye open for relevant material on the importance of "Appointment in Samarra." Not that I really liked that book myself.

Point number 2: Dealing with this probably involves changing Simonides' opinion and behavior. Too bad, because that doesn't appear as if that's going to be easy to do. He removed a Modern Library statement from the Jack London page. I replaced it with citations of two other "best of" lists and he promptly removed both of them, saying basically that he didn't like those lists either.

You may regard this as caving in, but I prefer to think of it as being very, very, very patient. I like cooperating with people and watching articles grow collaboratively, and I'm good at that. I don't like politics and power struggles, and I'm bad at that. One way I cope with this is by seeking opportunities for the former and avoiding the latter. Wikipedia has 300,000 articles, I ought to be able to do quite a bit without ever colliding with Simonides.

John O'Hara page proposal

What do you think of this proposal? (Leave comments there). [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 00:20, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Plunk plunk vs. boom chicka boom

I've always heard the characteristic Luther Perkins / Tennessee Two sound described as "boom chicka boom," rather than "plunk plunk." As Cash even put out an album with the title Boom Chicka Boom, I reckon that might be more appropriate than "plunk plunk." This is splitting hairs, but I think it's important, given that the phrase appears in the overview paragraph.

Karl Ward 16:20, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

O'Hara, etc.

My "E-mail this user" link works, or should work, anyway, if you wish to exchange email addresses.

I've now gotten the bit in my teeth re O'Hara, and have gotten two biographies (Woolf's and, um, um, um, the other one) out of the library, and the Kazin book coming via interlibrary loan. The first goodie that jumped off the page at me is that when Steinbeck won the Nobel prize, O'Hara sent him a congratulatory message--exact wording is in the book--but, approximately, "There is only one other writer to whom the awarding of the prize would have pleased me more." Will use it to replace the current vague sentence about his yearning for the Nobel. Oh, it also mentions that he begged a Random House editor to lend him some matchbooks from some exclusive New York club that O'Hara didn't belong to; O'Hara wanted to leave them around his house to impress people. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:31, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Zoophilia vs. Bestiality

Since you seem to be wondering why I've been changing the wording on several articles - it's all about NPOV. "Zoophilia" is a neutral word, while "bestiality" is not; you don't call gay people "fags", either, for example (or at least not in Wikipedia articles). -- Schnee 00:54, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Napoleon Disentimed

I wasn't aware that Napoleon Disentimed was on VFD and got deleted. I'm going to list it on Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion, what else was deleted? Mintguy (T) 08:58, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

  • Hi Mintguy, thanks for reverting that stuff. I dunno what got Wily so obsessed with poor little me. I should have fought at least the Napoleon deletion, I suppose, but decided to let it go. If you put it up for undeletion this time I'll mention the fact it was published in the U.S. by a major publisher, in the U.K. by a major publisher, in Italy ditto, in Germany ditto, and in Russia ditto. I dunno what more one wants for inclusion, short of being a best-seller. In any case, he also undeleted my novel Blood on the Hibiscus and short articles about two series characters, Commissaire Tama and Joe Caneili. Also a mention in the Bangor, Maine, article about famous Bangorians -- geez, aside from Stephen King, Hannibal Hamblin, Bill Cohen, my uncle, and me, who the hell is from Bangor? And finally a comment by me in the Moon is a Harsh Mistress article (Heinlein's book), in which Heinlein said it was his best book. This annoys me: when I first wrote the comment someone deleted it on the grounds that there was no verification. Then when I put my own name in in order to provide verification this character deletes it on the grounds that it's a vanity plug for me -- it was a bit of info about Heinlein, nothing more. If anyone else in WP knew Heinlein and wants to put in a direct comment from him, let them do so.... In any case, thanks for the interest and all the best, Hayford Peirce 16:35, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hi. This has now been undeleted. Mintguy (T)

See Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion. Mintguy (T) 21:34, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nice edit on Barry Bonds. Bbpen 13:51, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Redirects galore

Hello 'Hayford.' Please don't turn nonexistant articles into redirects to another somewhat related article just because you don't like red links. I'm refering to the many redirects you've made of nonexistant articles of tennis players to Professional Tennis Championships. Red links are ugly, but useful, because they tell the community which articles need to be created. —Cantus…☎ 03:07, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)

Redirects/articles

Hi, regarding your comment at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Hans Nusslein: what I gather you meant is that you still wanted the Hans Nusslein article to contain a link to Professional Tennis Championships, is that correct? Each article page can be either a redirect, or an article, but not both, so leaving the redirect thingy there is not an option. I tweaked the text slightly to include a link to the PTA article. Noel (talk) 05:02, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

PS: I don't usually check other User_talk: pages (so that I don't have to monitor a whole long list of User_Talk: pages - one for each person with whom I am having a "conversation"), so please leave any messages for me on my talk page (above); if you leave a message for me here I probably will not see it. I know not everyone uses this style (they would rather keep all the text of a thread in one place), but I simply can't monitor all the User_talk: pages I leave messages on. Thanks!

  • I just want to affirm what the last two entries said. A redirect page is nothing but a page that automatically sends you drectly to another page. There can be nothing else on the page. Also you should only use a redirect when the only place that a subject is covered is on the redirected page, because the redirect can send someone only to one specific page. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try to walk through it with you. DS1953 15:58, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea. I am most definitely not a lawyer nor an intellectual property expert.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/okbooks.html#whatpd is a good crib sheet. I read it as saying that in the UK the term of copyright is "life + 70" and applies retroactively (yes, works that were in the public domain can become covered by copyright again). I'm not sure why you think the rights expire after fifty years.

You could upload the image, state very carefully the source and date and exactly why you think it is in the public domain (give the source of whatever you read that made you think it was only 50 years) and do NOT tag it. Eventually the image tagging people will be notice that it is not tagged and will get around to asking you about it.

You could even go further than that. Upload it, put it in the article, and then list it yourself on the WP:CV page with a careful explanation. That way, nobody could say you were being underhanded, it would come to everyone's attention, and it might elicit informed opinions.

User:JamesDay seems to know a lot about copyright, but he doesn't always answer questions. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:57, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Moving articles

Hi, if you have an article with a mis-spelled name, or for whatever reason you want to change the name of the article, please use the "Move this page" button. Under no circumstances should you start a duplicate page, or (equally bad) cut-and-paste the text over to the second article. I have moved Karol Kozeluh to Karel Kozeluh, thereby keeping the complete history (such as it is; in this case it not that big an issue, but on another page it might be) at the correct article name. (I know it's still missing the diacritic mark - see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Character set differences - Latin-1 for why.) Noel (talk) 22:46, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sure, no problem; thanks! Noel (talk) 22:54, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Karel Kozeluh

Oh, one other thing about the Karel Kozeluh article. In the new one you started, you called him "a fine amateur and professional tennis player". However, the article currently says that he had "almost no background in amateur tennis". Huh? They can't both be true! Noel (talk) 02:53, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Federer

I appreciate it. I'm a great fan of him, but.....sounded too much like a press release, as someone said on the talk page. We don't need to fawn over him...his achievements can speak for themselves.--Etaonish June 30, 2005 16:36 (UTC)

Vinnie Richards

No, I had no plans for anything like that.

As far as Richards goes, what happened was that I referred to, and linked to, "Vincent Richards" in some of the other bios I did recently, because that was the name given in the sources I used - without realizing that it was the same person as "Vinnie Richards". Those links, needless to say, showed up as red links. I happened to notice on one of the sources I was using that he was referred to as "Vincent (Vinnie) Richards", and that's when I made the connection that it was the same person. I only switched to Vincent because it seemed like a lot of the sources I saw referred to him that way (see, e.g., the History of the Pro Tennis Wars, the excellent online series I just added to Professional Tennis Championships), so I did a quick web search and it seemed to confirm that that form is now more common. But if the Vinnie form is really the way everyone in tennis knows him (I'm not that much of a tennis person), I could be persuaded to change it back - but I have to wonder, that guy who wrote that series would seem to be pretty clued-in to that world, and he used "Vincent" - so I don't think it's an unreasonable choice. Noel (talk) 1 July 2005 15:21 (UTC)

What a "redirect" is

Ummm, a "redirect" is a page that contains nothing except the text "#Redirect [[Some other page]]". So your new Butch Buchholz page is not a redirect, and so shouldn't have been listed on WP:RfD - which is for deleting the page completely, along with the history, so that going it to it gives you the same kind of message as you get when going to This page doesn't exist.

The Butch Buchholz page did contain a {{rfd}} notice on it, which I deleted - but you could have done that, you didn't need to list it on RfD for that. I'll delete the inappropriate listing on RfD. Noel (talk) 23:09, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

When you say "delete a redirect", I assume what you mean is "edit a page which contains a redirect to turn it into an article", which is what you did with Butch Buchholz. Anyone can do that. To actually delete a redirect (i.e. make the page go away completely, see above), just like deleting any other page, is a capability restricted to Wikipedia:Administrators. This page may help make this all a bit clearer. Noel (talk) 23:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

'flavor profile'

re: mayonnaise 19:46, 11 July 2005 Hayford Peirce (changed "has a flavor profile" to "tastes". geez....)

I used 'flavor profile' to suggest a different balance of flavor. Mainly, it is not as sharp tasting, and perhaps sweeter than Western mayonnaise. Perhaps I should add that to the article. Dforest 06:42, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

L. Ron Hubbard reference in John W. Campbell article

Please note that I merely moved the sentence to the Talk:John W. Campbell page and said it was for the time being. I have also put several other references I have found on the talk page. Please don't feel that I am trying to revise history, just trying to achieve NPOV with all the facts. ~ WCFrancis 17:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your response (now at User talk:WCFrancis). You found my change while I was looking things up on the net (and wondering where my copy of the book collecting John Campbell's editorials might have ended up in the last move). A new user had entered a comment that Campbell had later regretted his involvement. This was in a form that should have gone into the Talk page and I moved that. At the same time I moved the reference to the Talk page, knowing it was potentially controversial. Then I found a couple of references which I have put excerpts and source URLs on Talk:John W. Campbell. Talk pages are intended to be used to attempt to reach consensus on how the article should read. I suspect that DGOQ felt that the sentence as it stood did not tell the whole story. ~ WCFrancis 19:55, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Your edit on Pederasty

Hello, Can you say why you think that we cannot use the picture of the Pakistani hostage under the fair use doctrine? Haiduc 00:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Your knowledge of the topic exceeds mine. I was under the impression that two-dimensional works of art were freely photographable, and that even the photos have no protection (as opposed to pictures of sculptures, which are in themselves original works). If you are right, then what are the limits of "fair use"? Haiduc 10:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Ty Cobb Edit

How was Ty Cobb the "first elected" to the Hall of Fame? Getting most votes doesn't mean being first elected. This wiki is the first time I've even heard of that claim. Dysepsion

Microsoft article

Hi Hayford,

You mentioned in one of your edit summeries that it was "the wordiest damn thing I've ever seen" - do you have any suggestions on improving it? What makes in weird in your opinion? Thanks --Ryan Norton T | @ | C 23:48, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Maris

I do get carried away sometimes. I was not a Yankees fan, but I'm a midwesterner and was a Roger Maris fan, and I always felt like he got a bum rap from the crusty New York press. Thanks for calling me on it. Sometimes my POV overrides the facts, even if I'm right. d:) Wahkeenah 18:23, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

You make an outstanding, astute point. In 1956, I think it was, Mantle was threatening Ruth's season record, and there was some kind of traditionalistic sigh of relief when he didn't break it. Then in 1961, when it was pretty clear someone was going to break it, Mantle was getting the support because he was a "real" Yankee as opposed to Maris, the "outsider" as you say... as if Maris or Mantle had any control over all this... or over the 162 game schedule which the Lords of Baseball concocted. Also, something else kind of irks me... the revisionist press still likes to paint it as if the fans didn't like Maris. It was the press who didn't like Maris. The fans were fine with him, for awhile. Just listen to the audio of him hitting number 61. He got a huge cheer. It was the press who forged the fans' eventual negative attitude about Maris. One of Bill Veeck's books took the Yankees and MLB to task for screwing up a good thing in 1961. As he said, you can only break Ruth's record once, and they really dropped the ball on this one. While I'm on the subject, Ruth was an "outsider" also. He didn't ask to be traded (well, in a way he did, but that's another story). But the Bambino was good copy, so the press loved him. Anyway, by 1974 baseball had gotten a little wiser and Henry Aaron was pretty much embraced by the media, despite being about as exciting a personality as Maris was. But they had a better sense of promotion by then. In 1961, the game was basically run by idiots (as opposed to nowadays). d:) Wahkeenah 19:04, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

And since I didn't quite answer your actual question, YES, I think there should be something in the Maris article pointing that out. Feel free to add it. Or I can say something about it, if you want me to. Wahkeenah 20:54, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I added some verbiage. Take a look and improve upon it as you see fit. Sometime I should go back and re-read Maris' book, My Turn at Bat, and actually get re-informed instead of just recalling stuff from memory, which is always risky. The 1961 season almost merits a separate article, for someone with the time to delve further into it. Maybe I should have added something about Billy Crystal's TV-movie 61* which had the ring of truth to it. Wahkeenah 22:56, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks good! I made one minor change. The contrast between 1961 and 1998 struck me as I was writing it earlier, how much smarter the coverage is now than it was then, a much better marketing sense. For the fans, both of those years were great fun because of the individual race. Maybe that's why Bonds in 2001 was kind of an anti-climax (plus he wears the surly jacket that Maris wore). Wahkeenah 00:55, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Image:Tartiflette in Preparation.jpg

Image deletion warning Image:Tartiflette in Preparation.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Image:Tartiflette in Preparation

It looks like you uploaded Image:Tartiflette in Preparation.jpg to both Wikipedia and Wikibooks. The image in Wikipedia is not being used and thus a candidate for deletion. The image in Wikibooks should not be effected. Also, none of these issues have a copyright source. If you took them, then they should be tagged as GFDL (See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags) or let me know and I'll do it for you. Thanks Nv8200p 01:56, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

knock knock: :) See my response to your analogy on the list of homosexuals and bisexuals, see what you think. 70.57.82.114 00:25, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Image woes; John O'Hara

I don't have time to look into this in detail right now. I'll just say one thing. At all times in general, and when Wikipedia is under heavy load in particular, there can be various weirdness, particularly with images, in which changes don't seem to "take." What's especially puzzling is that some kinds of changes "take" faster than others. So, just like the standard PC advice ("Did you try rebooting?") the standard Wikipedia advice is always to wait about fifteen minutes and see if the problems are still there.

Also: purge your browser's cache. And purge the Wikipedia server's cache. The only good way I know to do this is to click "edit this page," then go to the URL field at the top of your browser, and replace the word "edit" with the word "purge," i.e.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Foithboinder&action=edit to

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Foithboinder&action=purge

As for the John O'Hara article, the first paragraph ends with the sentence "He also a keen eye for, and wrote about, social status and class differences, particularly among the well-to-do." And it has been that way for a long time. What do you think it should be saying? Dpbsmith (talk) 21:55, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't see "Image:Waldo, Hayford, and Respective Wives" in so I guess you must have eventually straightened this out yourself? Dpbsmith (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Toy photos?

I noticed you took a couple photos, among them a double dildo... Any chance you have any Vac-u-lock harnesses or accessories? I just wrote strap-on dildo, and used my own photos for most of it, but as I don't have any vac-u-lock toys, was forced to use non-free images... GFDL images of vac-u-lock toys would be great if you could take any! Thanks, Bushytails 21:51, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Which or that?

At 04:41, 5 August 2005, you made a change to Grammar - changing 'which' to 'that'. I think this is a difference between British and American usage, but I'm unfamiliar with what the American usage is. Please could you give me any explanation or point me to any info about what makes it wrong? I'd like to update American and British English differences. Gailtb 14:00, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Yes, in British English they are completely interchangeable. Gailtb 04:39, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Heinleins' pic

I wanted to thank you for providing the pic of Robert and Ginny Heinlein in use on his page (the Tahiti pic); of the pics that I've seen, that one best captures the people I think I know (from reading his works).
--Baylink 03:58, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

File:U1187.jpg
The Thirteenth Majestral, Italian edition.

An Italian reader of yours

Ciao. It was a surprise to see that one of my favourite sf writers was also a WP user. i've read all books of yours published in Italy, by Urania. Here are the links to the editions of your novels:

Did you know them? The last two can boast impressive covers by who I consider the greatets sf cover artist of this age, Oscar Chichoni. It's a pity that in my country you are no longer published. I can't really explain, if one consider the boring stuff that almost always I'm obliged to read. Are there contractual or economics reason for this austracism of yours in Italy? Best greetings. Attilios

Big Bill Tilden

I wondered if you had any genealogical information on Big Bill Tilden. I'm guessing his father's name was WIlliam Tatem Tilden, Sr. (1855-1915). His mother seems to have died in 1911; do you know her name? - Nunh-huh 22:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks! - Nunh-huh 23:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, this seems approximately right (though there's conflicting data on census forms, for example, regarding birth places: 

[?] Tilden (a doctor)
& Willamina Tatem
|  William Tatem Tilden, Sr.
|    b. 8 March 1855, St. Georges, Delaware
|    d. 19 July 1915
|    bur. Ivy Hill Cemetery, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
|  & Selina "Linie" Hey
|    b. about 1855
|    d. 11 May 1911
|    bur. Ivy Hill Cemetery, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
|  |  “Big” Bill Tilden
|  |    b. 10 February 1893, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
|  |    d. 5 June 1953, Los Angeles, California
|  |  Herbert Tilden
|  | & [?]
|  |  |  Miriam Tilden
|  |  |  William Tatem Tilden III 
 - Nunh-huh 01:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the update (and the marriage date). I keep a lot of "famous folk" on file in case they link up with known ancestors. - Nunh-huh 04:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Zombie cocktail

You've reverted the Zombie cocktail article a few times, saying that you couldn't find the link to the wikibartending recipe for it within the article. The link is right there in the article, it says "Wikibooks Bartending has more about this subject: Zombie cocktail" click on the "zombie cocktail" at the bottom right side of the page. --Xyzzyplugh 02:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

204.169.120.9

204.169.120.9 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) This IP belongs to a school, which are constant sources of vandalism. If it keeps up, I'll make a quick 1-hour block until lunch is over. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC) P.S. Ah, my previous block was for 12 hours. Yeah, 12 hours seems more appropriate if it vandalises again, though the anon seems to have stopped now. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

hahaha... yeah, as if life weren't complicated enough. Check out this recent example. Unfortunately, this is pretty standard for school IP talk pages. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Phillips Exeter Alum Category

You may want to reconsider the "Phillips Exeter, Class of 1959" category. More appropriate may be a general "Phillips Exeter Alumni" (similar to Phillips Academy alumni), as the number in the class of 1959 specific category is limited and unlikely to grow all that much. 82.83.61.198 10:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Daniel Dennett's Page

Hi there! I just wanted to thank you for the picture of Dan in Tahiti you put on his page (I'm his goddaughter :)). I don't think of him really as looking anything besides the way he does now, so it's fun to look at older pictures. Kinda like looking at older pictures of your parents. I take it you're friends with him, then?

I note you're also a sci fi/mystery/spy thriller author - fantastic. I like to read and write in those genres as well. And I love Ellery Queen - I wonder if I've ever readanything of yours?

Anyway, I apologize for the unorthodox use of your talk page, but I really liked that picture you posted. I'll have to send it to Dan and see if it's good for a chuckle! :)

Hope you're having a good day, and say hi to Maine for me - it's been awhile since I've gotten up there. Emilyt 09:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The "The"!

I beg to differ, kind sir! "The" is part of the legal name of The New York Times - even when they shorten it, as in "Jonathan Landman is taking reader questions this week about Web journalism at The Times." ([4]). And it is part of The Kingston Trio's official name, as the group's own Web site shows, so it should be capitalized, no matter how odd it may look. There are some newspapers which don't have "the" as part of the official name, although I can't think of one at the moment - in those cases "the" would be lower case. - DavidWBrooks 13:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Interesting discussion! I've replied on The Kingston Trio talk page, since somebody else has gotten involved. - DavidWBrooks 19:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


Heinlein

I see you have reinserted the statement about Heinlein "Known as the "dean of science fiction," he set a high standard for science and engineering plausibility that few have equaled." I find that problematic for a couple of reasons. Firstly you say that "dean of science fiction" was a "book blurb deal". I would not consider a book blurb to be encyclopedic, which is what Wikipedia strives to be. Secondly Heinlein's science verges on the ridiculous, with insects hurling rocks across galaxies! What is the basis for the statement "science and engineering plausibility that few have equaled"? Regards Jayanta Sen 23:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

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Hola, Hayford--I think my wife Cezarija and I met you and yours in San Francisco a decade or more ago--we were visiting the Vances back when my book on Jack was still a live project. I seem to remember dinner at your place and some talk about living in Tahiti. Do I recall correctly, or is it time to start looking into nursing homes? Russell Letson, AKA RLetson 06:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Is this how this phone works?

Not sure about chatting protocols in Wiki-land, but I'll keep up with this one until told to do otherwise.

C. did accompany me on one of my last visits with the Vances, and she recalls the dinner at your SF place--we were both impressed at your cool trans-Pacific lifestyle (and the nifty apartment). Thanks for the kind words about my editing. The Wiki stuff I've been doing is some sort of neurotic displacement behavior--I should be finishing my book on Hawaiian music, but instead I'm cleaning up fannish burbles and explaining the obvious to the strangely-socialized. Sort of a cross between Worldcon and grading undergrad essays.RLetson 20:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The Hawaiian music

I'm writing about is slack key guitar, so it's medium-old but (like me) alive enough to have a few kicks left in it yet. I've had the contract (first with String Letter Press and now Hal Leonard) for more than five years, so it's well & truly overdue, but my excuse is that what was originally a 40K-word monograph has growed into an 80-90K-word Actual Book. I've spent a good deal of the time chasing down the life histories of the important guys who are inconveniently dead (Gabby Pahinui, Leonard Kwan, Sonny Chillingworth, Atta Isaacs). Now it's the living I'm finishing up with. One more crucial interview (need to update my 10-year-old data on Led Kaapana) and I'll be on the final leg of the trip. I've left my fingerprints on some of the Wiki articles on slack key, just to keep my hand in. RLetson 00:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I think what your Tahitian uncle was playing with the water glass would be a variant of steel guitar, where instead of fretting the strings with the fingers, they're stopped by a steel bar--or a bottleneck or anything smooth, like a metal comb (which is supposed to be what the inventor of the technique used in the 1880s). He probably held the guitar flat on his lap, right? That glissando-dominated style is what most people think of as "Hawaiian guitar" though there are other styles (like slack key) that never got the attention. Steel came over in the 19-teens (along with the uke) and started the first pop-music craze of the recording era. Also probably influenced blues slide guitar and certainly worked its way into country music by way of the Dobro, lap steel, and pedal steel guitar. More than you wanted to know, eh? Ask a nerd, get an info-dump. RLetson 05:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Word Perfect? If it was really a Bay Area person, that couldn't be me, since I've been a midwesterner for four decades (and was a northeasterner before that). Besides, you specify a "gentlemanly type scholar," and only the last word of that phrase is likely to be applied to me. RLetson 04:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the only times that C. and I have been in the Bay Area together has been for a Worldcon, which probably means the dinner was during/after ConFrancisco in 1993. That feels about right--13 years ago. I know that we did visit the Vances together once (I'd stayed with them a couple times before starting to write for Locus; after that I'd stay with Charles when visiting.) And in any case, I doubt that I would have had a copy of WordPerfect about my person. (Probably left it in my other pants.) RLetson 18:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Do a Google Images search on my name and you'll have your choice. The Locus archive also has one from Chicon that includes C. (and Eleanor Arnason). RLetson 20:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

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Like What You Are Doing!

You have been really updating George Jones' page and I like what you have been doing. I have also do alot to this page. So keep on doing the great work. - Alakey2010 23 May 2006 1:48 PM

Simon Templar

Thanks for setting the record straight regarding the date of Meet the Tiger. My best guess is the 1929 date is used in the 1980 Charter Books edition because Charter was an American company and thus used the US copyright date. If you click the external link to the book review page, you'll see the site gives the date as 1927 - weird. Incidentally I just finished reading Tiger and between you and me I have no idea why Charteris hated the book so much. After reading his intro to the Charter Books edition I was expecting a train wreck, but I thought it was great and while I admit I've only read a few Saint novels, it's presently my favorite. I'm planning to read Last Hero next since I managed to find a vintage paperback copy a few weeks ago. 23skidoo 04:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

If it was a typo, then we can remove it. I didn't know where the reviewer got the information from, so I left it in there just in case. I plan on buying Burl Barer's somewhat expensive but apparently exhaustive history of The Saint from Amazon one of these days and that should also help to clear some things up. Please go ahead and scan your cover. For reasons too complex to go into I am no longer contributing images to Wikipedia, but if I were I'd probably have scanned the Charter books edition which had a rather nice cover. As far as the quality of the book, I thought it was a fast-moving book with some good dialogue and great characterisation of Patricia Holm (quite progressive considering it was 1928). Perhaps as I read more Saint my view will change. I can't really do much by way of comparison between the novels and the short stories. I've actually found it hard to get into the short stories I've tried to read, but have had no trouble when it comes to reading the novel-length stories like Avenging Saint; one possible reason is I've never been a huge fan of the short story format. 23skidoo 18:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. By the way I'm not emotionally attached to that review link - I just stuck in the first substantial one I could find to stave off any accusations of the book being non-notable when the article appeared on the New Pages list (some folks have knee-jerk reactions to this sort of thing). If you know of or can find a better page that references this book, please feel free to replace the link. 23skidoo 18:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Eek. Yeah that cover is pretty sad. Interestingly right after I left the above note, I went to a couple of local bookstores and literally hit the Saint motherlode. I just did an accounting and I have all but 4 or 5 of the Charteris canon and several of the post-Charteris books as well, including several sweet 1940s-vintage pulp paperbacks of Saint Intervenes and Saint Goes On. I also found out (thanks to the books being retitled now and then) that I have several doubles, though in most cases the doubles are collectable paperbacks and the others are "reading copies" so I don't mind. I believe I now have a complete set (or virtually complete) of the Roger Moore photo cover editions. What is nice is I am now able to read the Saint from the beginning (I never realized that I had the first dozen books in order). The first missing title on my list isn't until Prelude for War/Saint Plays with Fire ... and I think I saw that one in a bookstore not too long ago... 23skidoo 23:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I was just about to start reading The Last Hero as I thought (based on website sources which I'd used to compile the booklist on the Simon Templar article) that it was the second book. However according to two editions of Enter the Saint which I have, Charteris indicates it was published first (in fact in the 1960s Roger Moore photo cover edition he says Enter the Saint was the very first Saint book, obviously choosing to disown Meet the Tiger). 23skidoo 01:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, Saint.org appears to have goofed by putting Last Hero second. That said, perhaps they were listing in chronological storytelling order. Last Hero (having flipped through it briefly) appears to feature Patricia Holm and be something of a follow-up to Meet the Tiger, while Man Who Was Clever, the first of the Enter the Saint stories I'm now reading, makes no reference to her (at least not that I've encountered yet). I bit the bullet and ordered Barer's reference book ($45 Canadian) from Amazon but it'll apparently take 6 weeks to arrive. Maybe it'll clear up some of the mystery. 23skidoo 19:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I stand corrected. Having just finished Man Who Was Clever I see Patricia does make a cameo appearance and there's a very oblique reference to the events of Meet the Tiger. 23skidoo 05:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Honorifics

The rule is set out at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) under the "Subsequent uses of names." No Mr. or Mrs. You could also point the revert warriors to Use of courtesy titles and honorifics in professional writing which shows that, with some notable exceptions, they aren't used in professional writing. 23skidoo 21:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget about the Three revert rule. If the reverter does more than 3 reverts in a 24 hour period, he can be blocked. Bear in mind the same rule would apply to you, too, so be careful. 23skidoo 22:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Enter the Saint

Just FYI I have now created an article for Enter the Saint as well as a category for Charteris' short stories. 23skidoo 17:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Anti-hero

I notice that it's a somewhat controversial term, and in fact someone deleted the category Anti-Heroes. I read the article before using the term and I feel it does work, as Templar at least early on is a character who uses methods that are clearly outside the law, albeit on the side of good. An excellent example is in "The Lawless Lady" which I just read, in which he actually kidnaps a crook from Teal (by using a trick cigar to knock Teal unconcious), and later returns the man in a coffin, not dead but horsewhipped. That's not exactly playing according to Hoyle and Templar's later rationalization that there was nothing Teal could do about it wouldn't work at all in today's day and age. Also in the same Enter the Saint collection, you see Simon basically authorizing Roger to kill the villain in "Policeman with Wings" and he guns down the bad guy in Lawless Lady without batting an eye. I think the basic definition of anti-hero in the same way that it's applied to Batman does work with Simon -- at least in the early books (in fact his explicit desire to use "The Saint" image to scare criminals is identical to Batman's motivations and makes me wonder if Bob Kane might have been inspired by Charteris when he created Batman). Now, once you get later in the canon when he starts resembling Roger Moore's character, then that changes a bit and perhaps it isn't accurate to call him an anti-hero by the time you get to, say, The Saint on the Spanish Main (I've yet to read it so I don't know). 23skidoo 21:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

  • It happened gradually, I think, mostly due to popular fiction. James Bond, Mike Hammer, and Matt Helm are examples of popular anti-heroes. More recently it seems that so any heroes on TV are considered anti-heroes, from Jack Bauer of 24 to Jack Bristow of Alias, and pretty much the entire cast of the new Battlestar Galactica. I have seen Number Six from The Prisoner described as an anti-hero and I don't agree there. He was more an anti-establishment hero.23skidoo 21:30, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
    • By sheer coincidence I went out to my local Wal-Mart after leaving the previous note and found a DVD for some cartoon series about a group of loners and "slackers". They're referred to as "anti-heroes" as well even though they definitely don't fit the definition I'm going by. So the term is definitely being used in many different contexts, for better or for worse. 23skidoo 22:31, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:3_Musketeers.jpg

put IFD template because no article links to, basis for the cropped version. A wepage screenshot from http://bmarcore.club.fr/tennis/Mousquet/mous-01.html Don't you think individual images for each mousquetaire will be cleaner? the tag HistoricPhoto isn't adapted. --Marc Lacoste 22:50, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Saint in New York

If your cover looks better than the paperback version I have up, by all means, please. I spent about an hour last night scanning all the books I have so I have images ready for the book articles. Some of the old Avon Books pulps are fantastic. You might have noticed I replaced the main image on the main article with one of these. 23skidoo 14:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

I have no idea how PROD works. I still default to AFD whenever I come around to this. I'm not sure if an administrator can delete the article after X number of days or if there's a 'Bot that goes around doing this. Maybe check WP:PROD and see if there's any information there. 23skidoo 18:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Prelude for War

I just created an article for Prelude for War (I also did one for Follow the Saint but for some reason Wikipedia didn't save it so I'll have to do it over again). Prelude for War/Saint Plays with Fire is one of a very few Charteris Saint books that I do not have a copy of. Do you have one that we can use for illustration? 23skidoo 18:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks. I reformatted the image to fit in the infobox and all that stuff. What a strange looking cover! There are a few others that I'm missing, but I'll let you know when I get to the articles in question. Cheers! 23skidoo 19:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

For some reason the image you uploaded has been deleted. I don't see why this would happen unless there was a Wikipedia glitch somewhere. Could you upload it again? Thanks! 23skidoo 16:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you've uploaded the file again, but everything seems back to normal ... even the added comments I had with the original image. Must be Wikipedia having a brain freeze again. Cheers! 23skidoo 17:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Other books I don't have

I just looked ahead and I see that there are a number of other Saint books for which I do not yet have covers. I haven't created the articles for any of these yet (though I imagine I will soon) so you don't need to upload anything yet, but do you have: Saint Errant, The Saint Around the World, or Senor Saint from the Charteris canon? I'm also looking for cover art for most of the non-Charteris books (namely Vendetta, Saint Returns, Abroad, In Pursuit, People Importers, Hapsburg Necklace, Send For, Templar Treasure, Count on, Salvage, and the Burl Barer Capture the Saint). As always, any help is appreciated! 23skidoo 20:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

  • If you could scan the two books you mentioned, that would be wonderful. But you don't have to upload them yet until the articles are created. I'll let you know when I get to them (it won't be today as I'm calling it quits for the night after The Saint Sees it Through. Thanks again! 23skidoo 21:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for updating Saint Errant. I did the last of the solo Charteris books this morning and will do Vendetta for the Saint next (at present it redirects back to the TV series article.) PS. The article has been created and is ready for an image whenever you get the chance. Thanks again! 23skidoo 21:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Novels Wikiproject

I should join - I haven't gotten around to it yet. Incidentally I've now gone ahead and created Saint Errant. Don't worry about the formatting for the image -- I can adjust it later to fit the infobox. 23skidoo 01:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels

Hi thank you for joining the WikiProject. There is still plenty of scope for influencing things and making your contribution count. We are about establishing standards for Novel based articles and writing articles that meet our own and others high standards, and to improve Wikipedia's diet of articles on Fiction books, otherwise called Novels. If you have any questions, do ask. Please be very welcome. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 08:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Response to your question

Can be found here - as I moved the comment to our general forum. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Novels/GeneralForum#foreign_editions Regards :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Last Hero cover

Thanks for the tip. I realized the scan was a little crooked, but unfortunately the cover on the vintage paperback I have actually was printed a little off-center so I didn't think there was much I could do about it. I'll see if perhaps there's a better copy online somewhere. 23skidoo 20:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Modesty Blaise

In case you're interested my next job is going to be creating starter articles on the books in the Modesty Blaise series. A few articles already exist so I'm going to take the Saint model and get the rest started. Luckily I have a full set of the books (except the very last one) so I was able to scan covers for them all. 23skidoo 22:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There were only a dozen books in the series, so it didn't take me long. Next I have my sights set on Matt Helm, another interest of mine (and yes I did see your article on him on the webpage). Have you heard whether or not Hamilton ever got that last book of his published (The Dominators)? In other news I scored a couple more Saint books during a quick bookstore outing this morning - I now have Prelude for War and Vendetta for the Saint, as well as a few reading copies of a few of the collectable books I've scrounged up. I'm reading The Avenging Saint right now (2nd time reading it) and I'm enjoying it a lot more now having read Last Hero, which wasn't a bad book at all. 23skidoo 20:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Matt Helm

I'd forgotten that it was you who added that image to the main article! I've only read a few of the books but I enjoy them. There's a bit of deadpan humor that appeals to me, plus I like the fact there's a bit of continuity between the books. I only have 15 Helm books, ranging from Death of a Citizen to one of the late 80s books. Unfortunately I have the same problem finding those books as I (usually) do trying to find Saint books -- many used bookstores don't bother buying old spy fiction anymore and the university student employees they hire generally give you blank stares when you ask for Hamilton or Charteris. (I'm sure you've been directed to the religion section more than once when looking for Templar books, I know I have!) Anyway, so far I haven't had a chance to create any real book articles, however I am in the process of converting the film articles on The Ambushers and The Silencers into book/film articles (like those done for the James Bond books). I added infoboxes and cover scans for those two this morning and I'll probably do something for Murderers' Row and The Wrecking Crew later. At the very least I expect to be able to create Death of a Citizen pretty soon. 23skidoo 21:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I think there's more of a demand for these books than may be believed by bookstores who think all people want are copies of DaVinci Code or Tom Clancy. I had a similar situation. After I hit the Saint motherlode at one bookstore (and after I'd worked out which books I needed to finish my collection), I knew of another store that definitely had at least 5 books from the later period. Why I didn't buy them before I don't know -- I guess I wasn't into the thrill of hunt at that point. I'd last seen the books about a month or so ago. Of course when I went to get them all the Saints were gone. Still, you'll never know where you'll find a goodie. That vintage "Saint Goes On" from the main article, and the fantastic 1943 copy of The Saint Intervenes that I scanned were both found piled under some other stuff in a back corner of a shop in a small town north of Calgary specializing in collector comic books and cowboy movie memorabilia! 23skidoo 21:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Saint covers complete

Thanks to a fellow in Australia who runs a Saint website, I've now been able to match up covers to all the Saint books. The next step will be to start expanding the articles, but it'll take me a while. I have Burl Barer's book on the history of the Saint on order from Amazon, which will help, but it's not expected to ship until the end of July-early August because it's a special order... 23skidoo 19:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

According to the http://saint.org website there was some fellow named Dickerson who had been commissioned by Charteris' estate to write the authorized biography. He was also supposed to be writing a new Saint novel called Son of the Saint based upon a movie story treatment by Charteris (the storyline would have featured Templar sharing an adventure with his son by Patricia Holm). Unfortunately saint.org hasn't been updated in years it seems so I have no idea what the status of either project is. I sent them an e-mail a few days ago in hopes of finding out if any more copies of Barer's "Capture the Saint" novel are still available but haven't heard back from them. (Technically, under Wikipedia's rules for fiction notability, Capture the Saint is almost disqualified from having an article because only 500 copies were made; I skirted the issue in the article stub and I figure it should survive as it's part of a notable series and the author has his own Wikipedia article. 23skidoo 19:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This is too funny. I just now for the first time looked at the article for Hodder & Stoughton, who of course published all the UK first editions of The Saint. I never realized that up until only a few years before Meet the Tiger came out, they published exclusively religious books! I can't help but wonder if The Saint got a leg up with them because of the name alone! 23skidoo 13:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Wimbeldon

So, now you have to convince me that Wimbeldon is the world most prestigious tennis tournament. First, descibe me what do you mean by prestigious. Then, how do you compare the prestige of two different sporting events. And why Wimbeldon would be "more prestigious" that the other 3 grand slams.

Thanks for your answers.

In a general manner, I don't like those kind of superlative as they have no place in an encyclopedia.

JeDi.

Novels WikiProject Newsletter June 2006

Here is a new initiative for our project. You are recieving this as you have at some point signed up as a "member" of the project. Have a look at the newsletter via the link and see what you think. The June 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The Crime Club

I just created a stub article for The Crime Club, which published all of the first US editions of The Saint. I figured it would be a good way to get rid of all the redlinks on the Saint articles. I could have just redirected to Doubleday but I did a quick Google and apparently TCC also published the first Fu Manchu and a bunch of other mystery books, plus they had a radio show. That said I don't know a lot about this company; if you happen to know a bit more about it, please feel free to add to the article. Cheers! 23skidoo 15:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Campbell article

Hayford, I don't know if you're still interested in the John W. Campbell article, but it failed GA and to meet the critique I have taken out half a dozen unsourced sentences. Do you happen to have sources for any of them? If so, it would be great to put some of them back in. I think it's ready to go back into GA, but I'll hold off for a bit in case you can add some of those cites back in. Thanks-- Mike Christie 22:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, anything you can source would be great; otherwise we can let it go. I'll go ahead and renominate it for GA; if you find the sources we can add the stuff back in. Mike Christie 23:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

One more Saint

For your interest I have created an after-the-fact article for the compilation Wanted for Murder. Although I don't think we should create articles for all the omnibus editions featuring Templar, as I read up a bit about Wanted for Murder I realized it was a special case as it was the first (and for awhile only) US release of the stories from Featuring the Saint and Alias the Saint. Speaking of which, I just finished Featuring the Saint (boy, ol'Simon could be bloodthirsty when he wanted to be!). By sheer luck I happened to have a DVD of some Roger Moore episodes including an adaptation of The Wonderful War and I found it interesting to compare the two side by side. Next up is Alias the Saint though I was disappointed for find the Charter Books edition (which I scanned for the article) has only one of the three stories in it for some reason. Luckily my good fortune in finding Saint books continued and I stumbled upon a complete version of the book just today! (I also found my own copy of the first edition Saint in New York for the surprisingly low sum of $12 over the weekend). 23skidoo 22:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Nah, this is fun. Plus I'm enjoying reading the books. I haven't even thought about doing Matt Helm yet, though I suppose I could create a series of stubs quickly enough. I only have about a dozen of the books, though so I'd need to track down scans for the others. It's on my "to-do" list! 23skidoo 00:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Death of a Citizen

Now you've got me started! I've just created Death of a Citizen. I probably won't be able to do any others for awhile (though I have scanned the covers). The covers (and books) I'm missing are: Removers, Devastators, Terminators, Retaliators, Terrorizers, Revengers, Annihilators, Detonators, Vanishers, Demolishers, Threateners, and Damagers. 23skidoo 01:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I just created The Wrecking Crew (novel). The next one is The Removers which, as noted, is one I don't have. I probably won't create the article until the weekend, so I'll let you know and you can plug in the cover. After that I think I pretty much have the complete 60s series (except for Devastators) until about 1975 or so... 23skidoo 22:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I know where you're coming from. I guess the key is to make sure the information provided is specifically about the book in question. For some things regarding Helm's character and the like (not necessarily what you've added), it should be considered whether it would be better to include it in the main article. But, needless to say, that shouldn't mean individual book articles should be eternal stubs. For example, see Thunderball which started out as a simple article on the book and film and was eventually awarded Feature Article status. Incidentally I haven't had time to put the other Helm book articles up, and it's possible I might not be able to for a couple of weeks as I'm about to go into a string of family visits, work-related stuff, and a holiday. Of course there's nothing stopping you from creating more if you want to go ahead -- you can use my work on Wrecking Crew or Citizen as a template, just cut-and-paste and make the appropriate changes. Otherwise I'll probably jump in and finish of the remaining articles later in July. 23skidoo 19:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

That said, I have just created The Removers, which needs an image. Also, do you have a first edition cover for Death of a Citizen that we can use instead of the one I have? 23skidoo 23:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I considered using Fawcett Gold Medal, but when I did a Google search, etc everything pointed me back to Fawcett Publications, which was the parent company. If we were to use Fawcett Gold Medal it would just redirect back there, anyway. 23skidoo 15:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe the key is to create an article on Gold Medal. After all, there are articles about other imprints. For example, I created one for The Crime Club because of the Saint connection. Target Books is another example. 23skidoo 17:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Tennis

Your comment regarding my edit as "dumb" is unprofessional; there was an ancient city in Egypt called Tennis hundreds of years before the sport; perhaps the whole Tennis should be a dab link given the 3 other dabs already there. Carlossuarez46 22:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

George Clooney

I'm surprised you haven't heard of him as he's one of the bigger movie stars around. He's best known for his role on the TV series ER. In film he took a little longer to achieve stardom as he got involved with dubious projects like playing Batman a few years back. Over the last few years, however, he's gained considerable equity for his work on Syriana (for which he won the Best Supporting Actor Oscar this year) and for writing and directing the Best Picture nominated film Good Night and Good Luck about Edward R. Murrow. He's in his mid-40s now and I think he's the right age for playing Helm. 23skidoo 17:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Robert Heinlein

Hi Howard. Firstly I would like to remind you to not revert edits without making a comment on the appropriate talk page to explain why you did so. Secondly, I'm not really sure that inappropriatly is a POV term, but I can see where you are coming from. Consequently i have edited the page to use more NPOV language.

Morgan Leigh 05:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC) Also posted to Talk:Robert Heinlein

Wikipedia:WikiProject Country Music

It seems like you know alot about country music! I have seen your work on the George Jones page and it is just great! I thought that I would ask you to join Wikipedia:WikiProject Country Music. I'am a member and we do alot with country music and we are currenty work on the Hank Williams page. We would like to see the Hank Williams as the featured article. So if you know any info on Hank Williams we would like any more info! And if you have any other knowledge on country music that would be great.

Thank you, Alakey2010 05:25 pm, 03 July 2006.

Thanks for the Silverberg compliment

Any time anyone compares me to Robert Silverberg it's likely to make my day. Thanks! Mike Christie 02:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Novels WikiProject Newsletter July 2006

Here is the new edition of our monthly newsletter. The July 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 14:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

"Attested" in Grok

Just FYI, attested in that context is a term in linguistics, approximately meaning "appearing in the wild". However, that's not a terribly useful place for linguistics jargon, so I agree with your rewrite. :-) — Saxifrage ✎ 04:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

George Jones videos.

I think the videos should be included. I'm not sure if you can buy these videos but I do know a video called "George Jones Live in Tennessee" and you can buy it at his website (www.georgejones.com). - Alakey2010 01:55 pm, 14 July 2006.

More Saints found

I'm just back from a week's holiday in Vancouver, BC where I managed to complete my collection of the actual Charteris canon -- as in the last remaining solo books by Charteris; I still need to track down a number of the later "collaborations". I also found a few Matt Helms as well; I believe I now have a complete set of the 1960s-era books at least (I need to check). Now all I need is to find time to read all of these! Cheers! 23skidoo 00:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

It'll probably be awhile before I really get into reading Helm again as I'm very much in a Saint mood these days, having just started She Was a Lady. Although I didn't actually have any time to do any real reading on the trip, I did take along with me a CD with a few public-domain recordings of Vincent Price's Saint radio series which was actually quite good as well. Yeah, Vancouver has some great shops. Sadly a few of my favorite bookstores were gone this time around, but I did get to a few of the better ones. There's one on Granville Street called ABC Book and Comic Emporium which is where I got basically all the Saints this time around (save for a couple of odds and ends). I mostly paid around the $5 mark for each though I allowed myself to "overspend" a little and pay $15 (Canadian remember) on an old British edition of Saint Errant to finish off the Charteris canon, plus I found one of the collaboration books, The Saint Abroad. No sign of the later ones which I think I may have to special order through Bookfinder or ABE. My main Helm find was a copy of The Removers which as I mentioned filled a gap in my 60s-era books. 23skidoo 02:57, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of scans, I hope you don't mind but I replaced your scan at Saint Errant with one of an earlier paperback edition by the original publisher. This was the book I paid $15 for but it's in pretty good shape, I think. 23skidoo 15:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I've just replaced the dull MacFadden cover for Señor Saint with a better-looking one from Pocket Books. 23skidoo 23:20, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I chose that cover for the main Saint as I thought it was a cool vintage cover to use and a bit more appropriate than the Roger Moore book cover that had been used previously. I'm not that fond of the Senor Saint cover, personally (though it's still better than the MacFadden), and I'm hesitant to use any of the latter-day reprint covers from Charter Books although I like the vintage feel of their 1980 reprint of Meet the Tiger. I have a cover taken from a 1980s omnibus that I think will do the trick. Check out Simon Templar now. 23skidoo 23:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

My copy of the Burl Barer book on The Saint's history arrived today and I'm a little disappointed. I definitely was overcharged for the size of the book, but moreso I was hoping he would have included things like plot synopses and the like for the books and stories. Instead he mostly focuses on the TV, radio and film series in this regard. That said there's some interesting information here, like the fact a number of Saint stories were rewritten from rejected stories Charteris had written early in his career and that the idea of using a ghost writer for the Saint books was first proposed in the early 1950s. I look forward to reading it in more detail. 23skidoo 15:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe someday I'll write a more detailed look at the stories themselves! There's a lot of interesting info in the book so I'm not saying it's a bad book by any means. I never knew the comic strip version of Simon had a beard! On a completely different subject, I have created Template:Matt Helm to go on all the Helm-related pages. One of these days I'll get around to creating starter articles like I did with The Saint but it's been a busy few weeks. I plan to create separate articles for the Silencers and Ambushers movies, as well as a separate article for the TV series so that's why they have their own entries on the list; I may also create an article on the unpublished novel. I also created Category:Matt Helm novels as a sub-category of Category:Spy novels. Back to the Simon Templar article, I actually ended up putting back some of what that fellow had deleted because although I could only watch the first few minutes of the Kilmer movie, it does make it clear that Simon doesn't take his name from Charteris' books, but rather from an old book on the Knights Templar. 23skidoo 03:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Red/Blue

Yes, they were originally red but I made redirect pages for those particular forms of their names. --Dantheox

George Jones songs

George Jones sang a song with Dolly Parton called "The Blues Man" (written by Hank Williams, Jr) they put a video out for this song and I think it may have been a single but I'm not for sure??? The "The Blues Man" came out in 2005. Also George Jones made a video for the song "Funny How Time Slips Away" (written by Willie Nelson) and like I said I think it may have been a single but again I'm not for sure??? The video came out in early 2006. - Alakey2010 08:44 pm, 17 July 2006

Snarky?

I took a lot of time to write the article you edited, only to see a snarky edit summary: (cur) (last) 21:25, July 17, 2006 Hayford Peirce (Talk | contribs | block) (speaking of grammar, it's "that" not "which"....) I won't lie, I found it rather insulting. Try to be a bit more civil to other peoples' work. Just because it says it can be edited mercilessly doesn't mean you have to ACT merciless. I didn't find it cute. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 02:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikibreak

I'm going to be taking a "wikibreak" for awhile. There have been some very annoying developments in the Wikipedia world and I don't really have the time or energy to deal with them, so I'm stepping away for a bit. I wanted to let you know that my copy of Burl Barer's massive history of the Saint is en route from Amazon as we speak (I was a little worried they didn't have any copies available) so I'm looking forward to learning more about the character. I finished "She Was a Lady" on the weekend (I quite enjoyed it) and am taking a breather from non-stop Saint reading to finally read The Da Vinci Code. I actually like The Saint a lot more! Cheers! 23skidoo 18:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Before I take my break I've created a new infobox for the Saint book articles. Watch for it. 23skidoo 19:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Image uploads

Your images wouldn't be a problem is you included source informatiotion - which is a requirement for all fair use images.--Peta 00:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Helm work

I've done a bit of work on the Helm world tonight. I created The Ambushers (film) and The Silencers (film) to finally separate them from the books. Unfortunately the result is the book articles are now quite brief -- please feel free to expand them! I've also created a Murderers' Row (novel) article to fill that gap. 23skidoo 06:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Related to the above, something I noticed is the novel infobox says the books were published in hardcover. Do you know if this was the case? I've never heard of any Helms being issued in hardback. 23skidoo 17:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm to blame for the infobox being wrong. I'm not sure where I heard about Helms being issued in hardcover, but as I did more reading I realized I must have been wrong. Regarding the bearded Saint, there is actually an illustration in the Barer book, but unfortunately I can't scan the page because the book is tightly glue bound and the spine would pop if I tried. The Saint looks rather like a pirate in the image in the book -- I wonder if the artist wasn't inspired by Vincent Price, who of course was playing the Saint on radio at the time. 23skidoo 20:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Always the brave soul, I jumped ahead and created The Dominators (novel) based on the unpublished book. If you have any info to add to this, please do as it's a little shaky as it is. 23skidoo 21:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
One of the news links on the Dossier website has a quote attributed to Hamilton in which he says his type of fiction doesn't really sell anymore. Sadly that seems to be the case - not just for him, but also Charteris and others. Even Agatha Christie is fading -- there's a stereotype that only grandmothers read her books anymore, and sadly as we're losing them to time there doesn't seem to be a new generation rediscovering her works, either. Thankfully we'll always have a secondary market -- I found a batch of Saints and Helms in just a few hours in Vancouver as I mentioned -- but it's shame when what will likely be Hamilton's last book may never be published. (Of course we don't know if the publisher has decided it isn't good enough, but you'd think there'd be some effort to get the Dominators out there.) 23skidoo 22:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I hear you. There's no reason why a Hamilton or Charteris reprint shouldn't sell any moreso than a Max Allan Collins or Elmore Leonard book. Used book stores are getting bad too -- one supposedly "comprehensive" store told me outright that they no longer were buying any old fiction dating back before about 1980 because no one was interested in buying it, exceptions being stuff like Bond, Agatha Christie, Sherlock Holmes, and recognize "literature" which always makes me wince. I mean, why does "On the Road" (for a random example) get to be called literature and "Death of a Citizen" isn't? And what do you do when you get authors of so-called "literature" like Kingsley Amis throwing a spanner into the works by writing a James Bond novel? 23skidoo 22:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Novels WikiProject Newsletter August 2006

Here is the new edition of our monthly newsletter. The August 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 11:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

"an" before a vowel or "h"

Hayford, thanks for your input on the dreaded indefinite article; it's nice to get a bit of feedback from someone (unlike me) who actually knows what they're talking about! :)

I have to say I was a little suspicious about the 'always use "an" with h' rule. What would the point be of having two separate versions of the indefinite article if they neither reflected pronunciation nor played a syntactic or grammatical role? I know English isn't the most sensible of languages, but it's not quite that silly!

I see from your user page that you're a science fiction author. Are any of your short works available online by any chance? I'm always on the look out for interesting new authors.

Cheers, Cmdrjameson 23:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Template

The Saint template can be found at Template:The Saint. Alternately, scroll down past the edit window and the edit page should have a list of all templates used on the page. Click on any of them to be taken to the template page where you can edit normally. 23skidoo 21:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Note that I've changed how I'm handling the Simon Dutton TV movies. According to Barer's book they were actually part of a syndicated TV series so I'm adjusting things accordingly. When I have time I'll create an article for Mystery Wheel. By the way I'm about midway through The Holy Terror, aka Saint vs. Scotland Yard. I'm glad to see Patricia Holm back in action. It'll be interesting to see what Barer's book has to say as to why Charteris went sour on the character. 23skidoo 22:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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