User talk:GourangaUK/Archive 5

Vegetarianism and IQ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm

Gouranga: Pls show/point to me where you have added this link in the topic vegetarianism. I guess this is a very important subject and needs to be added in this topic.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Arun.blue, 16:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

It wasn't added into the article in the end. See discussion on talk page, Regards, Gouranga(UK) 19:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Award of a Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		The Barnstar of Diligence is hereby awarded in recognition of extraordinary scrutiny, precision, and community service. Awarded by Addhoc 21:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disciplic Succession Table?

Hari. I was just considering how we could implement a system that shows the chain of disciplic succession (along with various splits) and have this on the page of each person within that chain. Thoughts? Ideas? I think it would be beneficial for understanding 'lineage'. Chopper Dave 19:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there

Sorry about removing all the links on the Bhagavad Gita page, I acted too hastily. May I ask your opinion as a neutral observer about the following statements made about me at here and here. I'm deliberately leaving my question broadly open ended. Do you share the sentiment that my deletions were the act of a vandal? Any thoughts you might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.TheRingess (talk) 01:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply on my talk page. I agree with the sentiments that you expressed. Have a good day.TheRingess (talk) 14:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just an FYI, I am currently attempting to involve a fellow editor, who continues to make very serious allegations about me, in an informal mediation process. Following the advice of another editor, I have brought it up on the administrative noticeboard here. This editor mentioned my edits to the Bhagavad Gita page. In order to show that I am actively seeking 3rd opinions about my actions I am including a diff to my question and your reply. I hope you don't mind, but should you, I will be more than willing to remove the statement and the links. Once again, thanks for responding.TheRingess (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:1Gouranga1.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:1Gouranga1.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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Re this edit summary

We both know that the move from animal sacrifice was motivated by the Buddha and Mahavira. I had tagged the line giving credit to the writers of the Upanishads earlier, but was reverted with a strange rationale, so I thought more drastic action would be needed. Arrow740 21:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it refers to the Upanishads being the first Hindu text to identify Ahimsa. In all likelihood, the concept probably arose before Buddha and Mahavira. Gizza^Chat ^© 11:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that's it probably much older DaGizza - comments made on talk page here. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 19:51, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

Thanks for the good wishes and the compliments. It's been a while since I have been on wikipedia and I'm happy to check it to discover good wishes from fellow wikipedians.
I appreciate your impressive ongoing contributions towards a wide range of subjects and hope to work with you in the future.
Regards,

_{Freedom skies| talk} 17:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Ganesha

I believe the article is ready to go through the WP:FAC process. What are your thoughts? Gizza^Chat ^© 12:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Omnivore chimps drink with lips

How come it doesn't fit in. It looks to me to fit in well, since it covers the exact theory that is proposed by some vegetarians. it is contradictory evidence that should be ignored?Halbared 21:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

reply to post on 'People from Mathura' category

Dear VJDChauhan, I have noticed that you added the category [Category:People from Mathura] to a number of articles wherein the subject actually came from elsewhere such as Bangladesh or Orissa (even if they spent some time in Mathura later on). Please could you watch out when adding this category in future. All the best, Gouranga(UK) 19:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Gouranga, 'People from XYZ' doesn't means that the corresponding person is native to that place/born there, it also means the concerned person had spent siginificant time at that place. Check entries of some other notable people on Wikipedia and you will notice thet they belong to more than 1 'People from XYZ' category. Vjdchauhan 20:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC).

Ethics

The (reliable) source is saying that the Buddha thought of it first. I'm not currently aware of the idea in non-Buddhist Indian thought, though it probably does exist. Arrow740 09:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you haven't read the line you removed carefully. It says that it was a Buddhist innovation that ethical behavior leads to a deeper understanding of spirituality. Arrow740 09:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request to add updates on WP:HINDU

On the new-look WikiProject Hinduism page, there is a "Recently updated articles" section where updates and creations related to Hinduism can be listed which will bring its attention to other Hinduism editors. I encourage using it as an effective and efficient notification tool. Thank you Gizza^Discuss ^© 22:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vaishnava-Sahajiya

Please do not delete the Vaishnava-Sahajiya section as it provides a valuable point of synthesis of Tantric and Vaishnava elements and is referenced and sourced. B9 hummingbird hovering^{(talk • contribs)} 09:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strange Edits

Dear B9 - please could you take some time to consider your edits in regards to Pancha Tattva. I agree with creating a disambiguation page, but you then replaced that with information already in existance on Panchamakara. It might be an idea to discuss bold changes on talk pages first, before moving articles around in such drastic ways? Regards, Gouranga(UK) 10:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The edits are not strange... they are strange to you. Panchatattva has about 10 meanings that i am aware of throughout different traditions. In addition, how can u say that a sourced citation and referenced paragraph to Vaishnava-Sahajiya is not warranted on the Vaishnavism page?

B9 hummingbird hovering^{(talk • contribs)} 10:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have posted a request for a discussion of recent edits to Mantra and the insertion of Bucknell et. al. on multiple articles at: Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Multiple_disputes_involving_B9_hummingbird_hovering. The Wikiquette alert page is an informal place where opinion can be had about disputes without opening a formal mediation or other conflict resolution process. The page notes that "This page is not part of the formal dispute resolution process, so it can be a good place to start if you are not sure where else to go." Buddhipriya 02:42, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hdeity infobox

Here it is. I don't know how to confidentally change anything however. Ys, Gizza^Discuss ^© 23:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Would you take a look at Shiva?

I would appreciate it if you would read over the current version of Shiva and assist in locating any remaining disputable or POV materials by fact-tagging the problem sentences in the article. I appreciate your prior help with earlier versions of the article. At this point I think most of the unsourced material is gone, but your independent review of what is still there that is dubious would be much appreciated. Whatever you flag will be given prompt attention. Thanks in advance for your help. Buddhipriya 20:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your editing pass. Can you tell me if you see anything specifically that justifies the remaining POV tag? I am unsure what remains to be done to get the article free of the nag tag completely: [1] Buddhipriya 02:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article candidate?

I'm wondering about doing some work on Reincarnation to try to bring it up to GA status. I think the main thing needed is to add some more references and/or delete a few short unsourced sections, such as this:

"The Druze (also known as Druse; Arabic: darazī درزي, pl. durūz دروز, Hebrew: דרוזים) are a distinct religious community based mostly in the Middle East who are an offshoot of Islam and influenced by other religions and philosophies, including Greek. Considered to be part of Islam, they believe that after death they come back as Druze again.[citation needed]"

Please let me know if you have any interest in helping with this. -- Johnfos 04:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seeking opinion from regular editors on reference pattern

References: Notes and citations section; change in reference and notes temporarily ceased; WP:FOOT says I am not doing wrong; Separate Notes and Citation sections

Opinion is sought from regular editors of the article Hinduism regarding the splitting of Notes and references section. This is a short gist of the discussions going on in the above mentioned talk links: Having a separate "Notes" (for explanatory remarks) and "Citations" (for direct citations), although permitted, is relatively rare in Wikipedia, and also in academic journals. The main rationale behind doing this is to distinguish a series of explanatory remarks from the series of citations (please see Rabindranath Tagore, Demosthenes for examples).

This sandbox gives a glimpse of how the article would look if we split the sections (the sandbox is under work, so may not be perfect). This link shows how the article looks with combined section. This may give an idea how it looked when I started working on references. I converted many references to Harvard format, apart from splitting the sections.

Opinion for regular editors are sought regarding the application of splitting of two section for this article. Please do so in Talk:Hinduism in the section Talk:Hinduism#Seeking_opinion_from_regular_editors_on_reference_pattern. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sarangapani Temple

One of the recent articles I created on Sarangapani Temple has been appeared today on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column. Because someone doesn't understand about the article, they have tagged for the tone. You have commented on my articles before. So I was wondering if you can help me in this article? Thanks. Giridhar Prasannan 02:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basil

Hello Gouranga. I made those changes to the article on holy basil for the following reasons. Since the article is now called Ocimum tenuifolium, it is about the species, which includes Thai basil. Incidentally, some people will also include Thai basil under the name tulasi, as I have known in Britain. Hence, placing the statement in the intro that it (i.e. Ocimum tenuifolium) is different from Thai basil is saying that it is different from itself. Also, common names of plants in English are usually not capitalised if they originate as plant names, even if they are also used as names for people, etc., e.g. rose, lily, basil. The exception is if the plant name includes a personal name (e..g rose of Sharon) If the subject of the article is to be about the use of the plant in Hinduism, then perhaps that subject should have its own article. Imc 09:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, it seems that my understanding of Thai basil is different from the one used here in Wikipedia. (Note that I avoided saying that I was wrong!) Imc 08:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Consciousness

Dear Gouranga, please reconsider your edits about consciousness. That page is neuro-scientific and is going to be moved/disambiguated. Take for example Bhakti. This concept is not dealing with the neurological aspects of consciousness, per se... it includes that but also ties into nirvana, and other divine notions. Thus higher consciousness is the more appropriate link. We can talk about this some more if you like, but please understand that I'm working really, really hard to improve the complete mess of consciousness on Wikipedia. The word in English is far too imprecise for one wikipedia category. Thus we are heading toward many forms of consciousness on wikipedia. --Dylanfly 18:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:PrabhupadaManor.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:PrabhupadaManor.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Abu badali ^(talk) 00:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Prabhupada_14.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Prabhupada_14.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Abu badali ^(talk) 00:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Prabhupada75.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Prabhupada75.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Abu badali ^(talk) 00:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HK in Popular Culture

Think this is worth saving? I checked over the reason, it's fair. However I was thinking of replacing the page with an edited condensed version, that is actually about the direct influence of Hare Krishna's on popular culture. Currently obscure influences, and small mentions are flooding the page. I have created a condensed version here. Check it out, and if you think it's good, perhaps you can swap it into the page and vote oppose (just incase I don't get online in time to do so, provided you agree). YsD. Chopper Dave 05:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, and a question

Thanks very much for the star. I have a great deal of respect for your ability to consider multiple points of view on things. I have been meaning to ask you, have you ever considered being nominated as an Administrator? If so, it would be my pleasure to make the nomination. Buddhipriya 20:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand your reluctance. However you may want to keep it in mind for the future. I value our dialog on various matters. Buddhipriya 09:49, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

can you take a look

Can you please take a look at anon contributions. Seems like everything will have to be reverted.--nids (♂) 11:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nara-Narayana.

Dear Gouranga,

Though i firmly believe that idol has no negative connatations in Indian english, i have replaced the word "idol" with "image".

The negative connatations in the west are due to Islam and some sections of Chirst's religion. No dictionary says the idols are false god, though this meaning may be prevalent in the west. In the east, idols, be it of Ganesha , Buddha or Mahavira are venerated.

Also, the English translation of Murti would be idol and not deity. Deity refers to the god . There can only 1 diety say Krishna but there are 100s of idols of the diety.--Redtigerxyz 12:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to Apte (p. 768) the translations of mūrti include "A form, visible shape, body, figure", as well as "An embodiment, incarnation, personification, manifestation." The latter terms refer to the fact that under some circumstances a mūrti is considered to be the deity, just as the transubstantiated host is considered to be the body of Christ in some Christian sects. Apte continues on with defintions and in (4) lists: "An image, idol, a statue." These refer to the physical objects, not consecrated ones. Buddhipriya 23:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will keep the word "image" to end the issue.--Redtigerxyz 12:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indian Astronomy

Please see the talk page of this article. -Vinay Jha 16:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'm simply not interesting in becoming involved. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 08:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. But keep on reading and advising. -a semi-Shyāmānga, Vinay Jha (UK) 10:11, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Off wiki question

Hi Gouranga, This is about as far off-wiki as you can get, but here goes. Do you know where I can get an mp3 version (first choice) or CD version (second choice) of the chant Prayer to the Spiritual Masters? It was part of the original Radha Krishna Temple album but isn't included on the re-release CD. I bet you know what I'm talking about. Thanks, ॐ Priyanath talk 05:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that link, I just bookmarked it. But it doesn't have that one chant that was on the original('Sri Gurvastakam' isn't it). You can see the track listings for the two versions at Radha_Krishna_Temple#Track listing. The CD listing shows "Prayer to the Spiritual Masters" as #8. But the CD re-release actually doesn't have it, at least the one I've seen that's called "Chant and be Happy!". I've heard that an earlier CD version may have had it, but I haven't seen it anywhere. I heard the original on cassette, long ago. I'll keep looking. Thanks, Hare Krishna ॐ Priyanath talk 16:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I'll look into that. They're a Russian site, so I'm leery about using a credit card there, but it may mean it's available elsewhere. ॐ Priyanath talk 23:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Straight Edge

http://www.krishnacore.com/contents.html ; Google finds quite a lot too[2] Chopper Dave 05:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hinduism = Law or Religious Law ?

In introductory para of Hinduism, I found a lopsided meaning of Dharma as "law", which I improved as divine (religious) law, because Dharma is distinct from secular law. But Buddhipriya reverted it on 19 July because I had not sourced it (I was hurrying for an international monsoon conference). Yesterday, I linked Dharma in the opening line so that readers might not be misled by the lopsided definition of Dharma given in the end of this para(=law), but you reverted it. There are three alternatives :(1) link Dharma, it will save words because you want to trim Hinduism, (2) improve the definition by replacing law with something like religious law (or cite MW : "law, religion, etc"), or (3) remove this definition in introduction (it will save bytes, but I do not recommend it). In any case, a balanced definition is needed, or at least a link. If you want to view my edits, here are some of my recent edits : Rgveda, svadhyaya, Hinduism,utpala, brahmarshi, etc. You may look at my recent talks with DAB on Talk:Rgveda . Regards. -Vinay Jha _{Vinay Jha} 14:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I too have responded to this question on my talk page. Regards. Abecedare 14:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't misunderstand me. Before postng any talk to a user, it is my habit to make a survey of that user's user and talk pages and some of his/her edits. I have a high regard for you on account of the information I could gather about you. As fas as your suggestion about "comments being made by other editors" , this is what I meant when I said that I was being projected as a vandal (not by all of them). You are being misled by others' comments . You will be forced to revise your views when you will know the truth, for which you will never find time. But you may find some time to look at the latest instance of my "inappropriate approach" in last para of Talk:Rgveda. -Vinay Jha _{Vinay Jha} 16:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Vamanadeva.jpg)

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A small gift

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Your countless edits to Hinduism- related articles and your active particpation in WP:Hinduism deserve a barnstar KnowledgeHegemony 14:49, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Swami Bhaktimarga

I came across this religious figure while reading this article on how a Sadhu is walking 7k miles. I also asked chopper to help out, but I wanted to know if you think he merits an article. Also a prominent rugby player joined ISKCON in NZ.Baka man 00:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Chain Barnstar of Recognition

		The Chain Barnstar of Recognition
		For making a difference! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 3-5 others with 500+ edits but no barnstar. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Chain Barnstar of Merit

		The Chain Barnstar of Merit
		For your hard work! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 4 others with 1500+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Chain Barnstar of Diligence

		The Chain Barnstar of Diligence
		For shaping Wikipedia! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 3 others with 2500+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedian's Chain Barnstar of Honour

		The Wikipedian's Chain Barnstar of Honour
		For building Wikipedia! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 2 others with 5000+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Thank you, Gouranga - Hare Krishna, ॐ Priyanath talk 01:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vishnu

Hi, Gouranga Can you replace the new image for the old image (Lord Visnu holds mace, discus, lotus and conch in his four hands) by the previous editor? It looks better.

Thanks,

Raj2004 01:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for helping

Dear Gouranga, Thank you so much for your excellent editing of the Food for Life page. I really appreciate it. ys Priya —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul168 (talk • contribs) 04:25, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Yoga poll

Hi! There's some discussion on whether using "asana", "yogasana" or "yoga asana" as the article title. If you are acquainted with the subject, you are invited to drop your opinion at Talk:Yogasana#Opinion Poll on this article's name. Davin7 09:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Krishna's discourse to Arjuna - Abridged and short

Hi! Can you tell me where can I find info on Shree Krishna's discourse (abridged and short) to Arjuna at the time of war of Mahabharata. KnowledgeHegemony 08:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Krishna&Peacock.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Krishna&Peacock.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thanks

Dhanyawad for your message. Simpledevotion 17:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Gouranga, Did you go through these articles? Good series of articles about Sri Krishna I just noticed that you removed this link (added by me few days ago, which was accidently removed in some update) saying it is blog like website. I do not know what does that exactly mean. I do not know about the complete website but the articles are excellent and highly circulated. These aricles are provided with reference.

As a devotee, I know value of this information. Please let me know your views. Looking forward for your help. Stay blessed. Gratitute Simpledevotion 17:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gouranga, appreciate your response. There are no advertisements on the page, I think those are links to other sections on same website. I gone through the wiki links policy. I am quiet new to understand and comment based on these policies. Because the implied meaning of rules may be different for different readers/editors. I would recommend to keep the link. Gratitute. Simpledevotion 11:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gouranga, for time being I am restoring the link in the article. Looking for your ongoing help. Simpledevotion 09:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dhanyawad for your message. 05:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simpledevotion (talk • contribs)

Prabhupada and India

Dear GaurangaUKji, Dandavats. Of course no offense is taken because none was given. Because you are devotees and Prabhupad admirers editing I personally have no complaints. Its obvious you guys recognize his worth. That is the most important issue...is his legacy being presented nicely. As far as I can tell, in my humble opinion, it is. Thank you.

Historically, Prabhupada clearly stated the lack of interest in India was a major motivation for his preaching in the west. He stated repeatedly that if the Indians see the westerners following Krsna consciousness it would inspire the Indians and reawaken their natural krsna culture. he also is on video stating that India is the most important place in the universe to preach. So its not my opinion that was Prabhupada's direct statement.

That said I however completely agree that your point about Bhaktisiddhanta urging to preach was the initial impetus. My understanding is that when he began the League of Devotees in Jhansi it was to be the world HQ for preaching in the West and the world over. So even if he succeeded in gathering thousands of disciples in India, he would not have stopped there.

I also agree that its more effective to recognize the universal appeal beyond any national considerations in a public forum. My intent was in regard to Prabhupada and India thats why I put it in that section and I feel there is no harm to highlight the special relationship Prabhupada had with India in the India section. As a child in his gurukula Prabhupada chose his old friend Dr Sharma to run his school despite Dr Sharma being a Shankarite. asked why, he stated,"I want these boys to learn some culture." He was obviously refering to Indian-Hindu culture since Dr Sharma was not a practicing Vaishnava.

However if that were a page dedicated to Prabhupada and his relationship to India, his admiration for India, his experiences in India, his statements regarding India's unique place, it would be denying the public the historical reality that is easily verifiable by his repeated statements in this regard.We also may consider that Caitanya's Lila, Krsna's Lila, Rama's Lila all the Vaishnava Tirtha sites are all in India. There is no doubt something unique about India.

Is that important? It is as a historical point. is it in terms of preaching? Not really I guess.

Again, for me, the most important point is that Prabhupada followers are at the helm so all the above is just in the mood of sharing not an attempt to reinstate my edits. YS Vrndavan Parker

Prabhupada: India,the most sacred place within this universe etc

Haribol GourangaUK, I have been thinking about this issue and realize that you are not treating the subject of Prabhupada and India with historical accuracy. Beyond that it is woefully inadequate and by no means does justice to the issue. I also do not understand why you removed my referenced quote from Prabhupada about his experience with the Indian Govt?

I do not know all the rules of wiki, as of yet, but from my understanding if I have references than it is suitable. Then I must ask why you removed the referenced quote from Prabhupada about his experiences with the Indian govt in the section 'In India'? You also clearly suggested that I put my own feelings rather than Prabhupada's own words on the subject. you stated,"Also I felt it best to avoid giving opinions on which country we believe Prabhupada felt was the "most important" (if any)..." This is your opinion that is verifiable incorrect. Based on that you edit? I ask you Prabhu are you not editing based on yr own opinion instead of fact?

To me this shows a lack of familiarity with Prabhupada's views on India. As a Wiki newbie, I felt intimidated but now realize that as long as I have references, I have a duty to make the case as it is. In my earlier message about preaching and history I realized I had it backwards. Wikipedia is for historical facts and not for preaching. Below are direct Prabhupada quotes...some of many that clearly highlight his view that India is the most important place in the universe and other alleged opinions of mine.

I urge you to go to http://www.prabhupadavani.org/ and research Prabhupada's views. These are direct recordings, unedited and uncensored so you cant go wrong. Prabhupada also repeatedly stated that he intended to inspire Indians to revive their Krsna consciousness by making western devotees. I am actually surprised that this info isnt well known to all devotees and that Im even spending time defending it. The examples below are only some of many. 3 points you question directly or indirectly.

1)That Initial failure of his mission in India was a major impetus for his attemtps in the West.

2)Prabhupda's identifying India as the most important place to preach in the universe, Which he directly states on Video.

3)That He had a major goal of inspiring Indians thru the example of his Western devotees.

Below I attempted to use sources that confirm the above 3 topics in their historical context.

"So especially in India, the atmosphere is very good. It is especially meant, within this universe, this plot of land known as Bharatavarsa, India, is the most sacred place within this universe. And of the whole land Bharatavarsa, in Bengal, it is very sacred. And the whole of Bengal, this Nadia is very sacred. And in the whole Nadia, this part is very sacred, Mayapura Candradoya Temple. So by Krsna's grace, you have got this opportunity to live here. Take advantage, full advantage of this opportunity, spiritually fortunate. This is the statement of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Not that I am manufacturing. We cannot manufacture anything, but we can repeat the words of our predecessors. Bhaktivinoda Thakura, in his Jaiva-Dharma, or in Caitanya-siksamrta, he has stated like that. In the Bharatavarsa, Bengal is the most important place, and in Bengal, the district Nadia is most important place, because Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared. Don't take it leniently. It is very serious thing that Bharatavarsa is meant for cultivation of Krsna consciousness. Unfortunately, the present leaders, they are misleading them. Anyway, you are fortunate. You take advantage of this cult of Krsna consciousness which was spoken by Krsna Himself, in this land of Bharatavarsa, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah [Bg. 1.1]." http://www.prabhupadavani.org/Caitanya_Caritamrta/Text/014.html

"Just like when you go to India, they're surprised how these American boys and girls have become so mad after God. Because that, that teaches them that: "You rascal. You learn. Because you imitate from the western countries. Now see here, the western country boys and girls are dancing in Krsna consciousness. Now you imitate." That was my policy. So it is being fructified now. Yes." http://www.prabhupadavani.org/Bhagavatam/text/158.html

"Indians would be inspired in their own faith and culture by seeing the “dancing. white elephants”, his affectionate reference to those young westerners...."In Every Town and Village: Adaptive Strategies in the Communication of Krishna Consciousness in the UK, the First Thirty Years http://scp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/47/2/153

"So Srila Prabhupada, when he brought us here to India, he had a term for…I'm looking out today, I'm seeing all these very happy, bright, brown faces and I'm thinking what Srila Prabhupada, when we came here, what he called us. You may know. What did Prabhupada call us? Dancing white elephants..... So Prabhupada had to micro-manage everything. And why? Just so the white elephants could attract the brown elephants now. But this was Prabhupada's mission. When he came to India…Prabhupada went to America in 1965-66, then he came to India in 1971. When Prabhupada came to India in 1971, then he made India his base, he stayed in India. From India, then he would go out and visit the West. But he stayed from 1971 all the way through in India was his base. So the mission was to have the Indian people become devotees. When Prabhupada was here, he used to tell everyone, "I am the only Indian who is practicing Krishna consciousness," and it was a fact. He said, "Look what I have done, I am the only Indian." He used to tell the other Indians, "If you join, how much we can do." So I'm very happy today to see so many happy, bright, enthusiastic faces here fulfilling Prabhupada's desire. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna." Brahmananda http://www.prabhupada.com/bombay25th/pushya.html

'Regarding the Jhansi incidence referred to by your Guru maharaj I may inform you that the donor of the house did not like to hand over the estate to any individual person. I therefore registered a society (The League of Devotees) and I invited your Guru maharaj to join it as the head man. But he, as he was with the then Kunjada desired to have the property in the joint name of him and Kunjada. So I became silent and I left the whole scheme. Let us now forget all these past incidences and go forward with present responsibility." Prabhupada July 16, 1966 http://sangalog1.blogspot.com/2004_07_11_archive.html

"When I was at Jhansi, I was provided with a big palatial building to live in association with 40 workers who are being trained up for itinerary preaching work. The expenses were about Rs 1000/= per month. I approached the Gov't for help but even after one year no definite decision could be arrived at by the Govt and the matter is still pending. Jhansi was a poor place + I shifted to Delhi." Prabhupda http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Letters13.html

"Prabhupada decided to create his own movement, the League of Devotees, in 1953 in Jhansi, India. After only two years, however, the organization collapsed, having made no full-time members." http://www.bookrags.com/A.C._Bhaktivedanta_Swami_Prabhupada

"The 1950's were a difficult time for Abhay Charan. He had to leave his "League if Devotees" building because the governor's wife insisted it be used for a "Ladies Club". With no place to stay and no real support, he left Jhansi - but not his plan for a world wide association of devotees. He moved around from an 'ashram' in Delhi, stayed with different Godbrothers, now he knew he was on his own." http://www.salagram.net/SP-lifepage.htm

So I personally do not take offense. You dont know me so that is not an issue. I dont know you but if you are acting as a Wiki acharya on Prabhupada, you have a duty to watch all his videos and listen to all his lectures first. In regards to the authentic history of Prabhupada and India I am standing on well researched fact, life long training and personal experience with this issue. I plan to research wiki's rules more and will do my part to put Prabhupada's India experience in the correct historical context. As fellow devotees I look forward to your good advise in providing the public with accurate info beyond a stamp, a former PM's quote and the practically irrelevant fact that Iskcon is a legally recognized body in India. And I havent even got to the topic of the Impact of Prabhupada on India which you seem to dismiss for some reason. (Vrnparker 14:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]