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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Archive
Archives
  1. January 2006 – July 2006
  2. August 2006 – December 2006

Archives:

Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4

Image:Wollomombi Falls.jpg

I have added the date for that photo. That is about all the information I have except that it was taken from the closest lookout (not sure of its name) facing east around midday. Shiftchange 11:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Samuel McCaughey

Text in the public domain can't be a copyvio. --Peta 10:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The template is ugly and unnecessary - and if it put on a page, should be added at the bottom. All that really needs to be added is

==References==

*{{Dictionary of Australian Biography|First=1stName|Last=lastname|Link=dictionary article link}} --Peta 02:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

TriPod vs. Tripod

Thanks for the suggestion to clarify the different bands :) I'll do that now! Tint 23:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Tint

Mt Druitt

Garrielrons, I would like to help where I can but my knowledge of Mt Druitt is limited as I'm not from that area. but I admire your efforts. good luck! Steven Fitter 06:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Unity Party

I think I'd just go with the same colour as the independents - a lot of the microparties aren't really associated with any particular colour. Rebecca 06:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Sevo

I am for the new layout on the seven hills page pehaps ask the other main editor and post in the discussion topic for seven hills. Brent01 10:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The Hills

I've had a look over the maps, and it seems to have been partially cut up. Much of the territory has shifted to the new Castle Hill electorate. Castle Hill was in the old The Hills, and has taken with it Carlingford and West Pennant Hills. Most of Cherrybrook seems to now be in Hornsby. Glenhaven is now in Hawkesbury. It's not on this map, but I'm assuming Pennant Hills has been moved to Epping. Hope this helps. Rebecca 03:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Loyola College, Mount Druitt

suburb - done. Jpeob 04:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

i'm in the process of doing it - next couple of days...i've started. Jpeob 09:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip

Thanks for the tip about some pages to check out for WikiProject Sydney. I have created an article today, as well as adding to some existing ones.

Whats new? 08:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


Shopping Mall articles

I posted this on quite a few user talk pages who voted to keep Macarthur Square. It's a really bad article about a non-notable shopping mall. I would really like to know, why this place NEEDS articles about shopping malls. We argue about the need for notability for school articles, and they have students with hopefully some amount of school spirit. They endeavor to build pride and a sense of culture. Shopping malls exist to make money. The only thing that can make them notable, is being

the first to implement something;
the biggest, at a given time in history; or
the most profitable

And all of these things are easily overtaken.

Here is what I posted on the talk pages, please if you are replying put something meaningful. I'm not after a flamewar and I am happy to update Macarthur Square even though it's nothing to do with me. I will apply the same logic to as many Westfields articles as I feel up to.

Hi, you recently voted to keeep the article Macarthur Square. Could you please suggest something that could be added to the article to make it notable compared to all the other articles for shopping malls on Wikipedia?
I ask this because I cannot see what makes one shopping centre notable compared to the one in the next suburb. Not every house has an article, why should every shopping centre?
Thanks, I hope to implement some of your suggestions. I am happy to conduct a reasonable amount of web-based investigation to implement some of your thoughts.
--Garrie 06:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

--Garrie 06:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Your comments are noted

Thanks for the pointers you left referring to my articles. I shall keep them in mind.

Whats new? 06:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

re aboriginal origin of words

I've just got my hands on copies of Macquarie Aboriginal Words (which is reliable) and Aboriginal Words and Place Names (which isn't), so I'll try to supply both what the word means and what people think the word means where possible.

BTW, don't you think the translation of Murrumbidgee as "big water" or "plenty water" is a bit racist? I mean, it would have been perfectly grammatically correct in the original language, so why is translated using such poor English? --Ptcamn 10:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


Wagga Wagga Marketplace

Hi i have seen the idea on what you want to do to Westfields and thought whether if it would be possible to do the same for the Marketplace since i know of at least 4 other Malls that go under the same Marketplace brand and logo. Just a thought. -- RobertM 21:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I haven't found any on Wikipedia however i have found 4 more on the net but information about them could be hard to get. -- Robertmyers 02:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Rebecca's Talk page

Nah, it was protected before I posted - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=protect&user=Rebecca&page= My post was August 4. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

how-to on a template you created

Hi, it seems you created the template:merge-multiple ? I want to use it for a whole series of articles but I don't know how to use the optional Discuss parameter. Strangely enough, when I try to simply specify a talk page as the last parameter it doesn't work ;) but I don't know how to specify the "discuss" parameter name. I looked around to see what articles linked to the template but I couldn't find one with a long list of articles which specified a single talk page. TIA,--Garrie 00:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Use {{merge-multiple|Article 1|Article 2|Article 3|...|Article X|discuss=Talk:Article 1}}, for example. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 00:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks that was far faster than I had hoped! Garrie again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GarrieIrons (talk • contribs)

No problem. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 00:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of Wagga Wagga

You said on my talk page that That's what the GNB were told "wagga wagga" means. But they accept whatever anybody tells them.. On the referenced page, the GNB gives a source 'wagga wagga' is probably a Wiradhuri term for 'many crows'. It should be noted that 'waggan', for one type of crow and 'waggura', for another have been recorded. (Appleton; 1992). Also: reeling (a sick man or a dizzy man); to dance, slide or grind. (McCarthy; 1963). implying they are not merely accepting what anybody tells them but have eferenced their assertions. A McCarthy is cited on the Wikipedia at Woolloomooloo, New South Wales for "Anthropolgist J.D. McCarthy wrote in NSW Aboriginal Places Names" - I assume it is the same one based on topic. I think your judgement of the GNB is too sceptical - why wouldn't they research?. Also you stated on the Wagga talk page I think they cite the city of wagga city council - they don't! The council may have used the same source hence the congruence.

You refer at Talk:Wagga Wagga that The same arguments are going on on the talk pages of several locations. I perceive that they are in the main from a particular editor who is subject to a Request for Comment (raised by me). She also firmly believes that the Dog on the Tuckerbox is a symbol of an aboriginal massacre[1][2] - undocumented apparently by anybody else but she feels that textual analysis of a poem is a sufficiently reliable source.[3][4][5] After that (and the abuse) I cannot take her seriously without a reliable source on any subject whatsoever. I am also not engaging in any discussion she initiates. At present she is blocked for a number of reasons and may even have left the project [6] but she has threatened that before [7]. For my actions regarding this editor, including lack of engagement on talk pages and reversion of unsigned comments and/or comments made by a person while under a block, a statement can be found here.--A Y Arktos\talk 00:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


WP:Rural NSW

You asked do you know, is there a WP:Wagga / Riverina / Rural NSW? - not at present - I think it would be a good idea. I am not the only editor in that space and I suspect there would be some interest. There is of course Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian places but rural NSW would have different and specific characteristics - might overlap here for directions but content focus would be more specific. I'd be interested. Shall we progress? --A Y Arktos\talk 00:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

  • My stamping ground is mainly south-eastern New South Wales though sometimes I feel that I've Been Everywhere :-). I think rural Australia (or some subset) very meaningfully includes regional cities - why did some settlements flourish (Wagga) and others not (Gundagai or Wantabadgery). We could of course classify by boundaries of Aboriginal nations eg Wiradjuri (that was tongue in cheek and that nation probably coincides with the Riverina :-) ).
Wiradjuri correspionds with the Riverina, does it???? Given the Riverina is largely south of the Murrumbidgee and the Wiradjuri goes to way north of the lachlan, how bizarre. The bizarre bit is the editors reasoning.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.54.9.232 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 15 August 2006

NSW regions eg South-West slopes, Riverina, .. possibly seems reasonable but maybe too limiting.

My preference (because of where I hang out) is to divide NSW into 1/4s - south east, north-east, south west, north west - not too broken down and some relatively distinctive characteristics. I feel that our current geography efforts are not good and to develop regional geography articles would be useful, as well as LGAs, towns and cities, highways and rivers. Consistency in look, feel and referencing would be a real plus. References can sometimes be useful for more than one article.
This 'editor' does not know why Wagga 'flourished' while Gundagai didnt. What is 'flourished"? This editor has no knowledge of geography, human settlement, history, this area, or much else etc etc etc then shows his ignorance here. Ooooooh dear! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.54.9.232 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 15 August 2006


The Dog on the Tuckerbox debate for example covered the Hume Highway, the Murrumbidgee River, the Wiradjuri people and language, settlements at Gundagai and Coolac, the monument itself. It also went to (on the fringes) the Bunyip and Tom Wills the cricketer/rugby player (family involved in another massacre - came from Gundagai; "A copy of this book is in the Gundagai Museum if anyone is going through Gundagai or would like to ring them ... Tread a bit lightly as a local may spook if any query gets too close to other stuff re this area that is still being hidden."!) That is in part a side issue but it illustrates the overlap that geography can have on a number of topics.
So how about Wikiproject:south-eastern New South Wales?--A Y Arktos\talk 01:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

A lot of people think Penrith is in Western New South Wales (such as, national news presenters on the commercial television stations). Using this approach, south-eastern new south wales = Bondi! which is why I prefer to go with regions which are defined within wikipedia such as the Riverina. Do you still want it to be south-eastern new south wales? I'm not against that but if that's the way it goes, then get somebody else's verifiable definition of south-eastern new south wales... --Garrie 01:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

  • No problem in conversing here.
  • The Bureau of meteorology uses regions (just like we learned in school :-) ) but groups these into districts at [8] with South-eastern NSW (which does not include the Riverina :-( ). 15 regions is probably too many; one you have suggested is too few; four as per definitions of BoM with one already covered by a project (Metropolitan) might be about right.
  • NPWS has 17 bioregions [9] but I think as above 17 is too concentrated a view.
  • NSW has 16 visitor regions [10] - once again 16 probably too many.
  • The regional break-up I like is the health one [11] - it corresponds with how I perceive the state - ie my south -eastern region = Greater southern health service.
  • There are differently defined districts for state emergencies [12] but 18 of them.
  • NSW Police has 6 areas [13], 3 of which seemed to be covering Sydney. The southern region seems to cover much the same area as the health department. [14]
  • There seems to be a variety of definitions, I think as long as we explain why we are using a definition, and are clear that it suits our own project purposes then no problem. We are not proposing an article on south-eastern New South Wales but do want the bio-regions, the vistitor regions, the LGAs, towns, cities, rivers, highways, national parks ... within that area covered better than they are at present. I would like to see the Riverina included. I would prefer that the eastern boundary did not stop at Tumut and Gundagai (within Riverina)
Gundagai IS NOT in the Riverina and has never been in the Riverina. To understand that editors would need to understand where the Riverina is (and who named it that and why) but as the editors here are too dumb, that would be beyond them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.54.9.232 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 15 August 2006

as I would be less interested (but not totally so), and so I think would a fair few others - it is the nature of things that there are more editors in Canberra and Sydney - they are perhaps prepared to extend themsleves outside their metropolitan boundaries but perhaps not too far. If the project gathers momentum perhaps we can reconsider the geographic scope.--A Y Arktos\talk 02:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC) I thought the BOM put Wagga in "South-West Slopes & Plains"? My lexicon seems to divide NSW along the watershed of the Great Dividing Range: Anything that drains into the Murray-Darling basin is in Western New South Wales (and I'm from Wagga, I just live in Mount Druitt (which locals call Western New South Wales ;) ). If we are going to launce a project it needs an "instinctive" name which people can latch onto. Is WP:Outback New South Wales suggesting too far northwest for you? I don't really see the need to encourage editing for the area covered by WP:Sydney (which extends to Golburn Police Academy), or WP:Canberra. The name will encourage participation. Once an article is pulled into the project coverage nobody will dispute it but some participants will work on it simply because it is on a project they are contibuting to. We can define the outback by reference to the article - the term colloquially can cover any lands outside of the main urban areas. If we proposed a family of projects, with a parent WP:Outback then if it's not in

  • WP Sydney
  • WP Brisbane
  • WP Melbourne
  • WP Darwin
  • WP Perth

etc we can "claim" it, but coastal issues pretty much won't be relavent? (response from Garrie)

  • Let's give WP:Outback New South Wales a go and see where it takes us :-) I will draft something up and notify other potentially interested editors once a draft is commenced - see Wikipedia:WikiProject Outback New South Wales
For the moment let's make Australian places the parent, noting that there might potentially be a project called WP:Outback
I can cope with the coast being treated separately
BoM do put Wagga in South-West slopes (on the border) but still in the larger Western-inland division - not my preferred south-eastern view :-( We here at the Wikipedia think Wagga is in the Riverina!?!--A Y Arktos\talk 00:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I do have a problem with Wagga Wagga labeled as an Outback City as it's isn't. Griffith is an Outback City and Leeton is a Outback Town. In my opinion Wagga Wagga is on the edge of the Southwest Slopes. -- Robertmyers 05:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Draft WPONS

I think why they say Wagga Wagga is in NSW is due to it being in the Federal electorate of the Riverina and also Visit NSW[15] have a large area which seems to go up into the Tumut area which I find hard to believe as they are more to do with the South West Slopes. So I say trying to get a source who is right is going to be very hard to find. -- Robertmyers 02:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but after five years with NSW NPWS I am not too interested in writing up articles about national parks! I will review them and ensure they are categorised, have appropriate templates, cross link to appropriate articles, etc - but I'm not likely to add significant content.
Having said that the next politician I work on will present me with a bunch of info regarding the work they did to establish national parks throughout new south wales.... ;) Garrie 02:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Understand - I can't get that excited about them either - its more the assessment and where do we go from here - ie what should the focus be - or where could it start. When doing that little bit on Central NSW Nat Parks - I started to think this is too big. However, back to regions - could do the same assessment for regions (as per BoM and we learnt at school), bio regions as per NPWS and Visitor regions - might be a start. 16 or 17 things is probably manageable to concentrate on.--A Y Arktos\talk 02:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I meant Riverina not NSW.. Sorry about confusing you. I'm crook with the flu so my spelling and comments may not make any scents. -- Robertmyers 04:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
[16] I thought that was an unfair comment (Even tho you removed it)! Outback NSW IMO starts west of the Newell Highway which is also stated [17]. Anyone who thinks that Outback NSW starts outside the capital cities and the coastal fringe is wrong

Outback NSW starts on the western side of the Hume Hwy at Gundagai and that is stated by a famous Australian who is acknowledged as defining where it is.

[18] -- Robertmyers 03:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Outback New South Wales starts a little further inland than say Katoomba. The link you cite would be a fantastic addition to the Outback article.
For many people the buffer between Sydney (not the city but Greater Sydney, which goes say almost to Lithgow) and The Outback is The Bush. Wagga is in the bush but not the outback.
But would you rather Wagga articles just not be in the project just to avoid Wagga being "labelled" as an "outback city"? Honestly - the purpose is to provide another tag to put on articles to bring them to the attention of more people, for whom the Australia project is cluttered up with capital city stuff. But other than WikiProject Australia, Wagga isn't in any other projects.
Garrie 04:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
BTW - I removed the edit [19] by mistake. It was meant to go up. Sorry if you think it was unfair. Honestly Dubbo and Wagga aren't that different to people who live in neither place. My brother just move from (sorta) Dubbo to Wagga - no problems with locals in Dubbo but soon after moving he was getting worse issues (from locals) than what people usually talk about Dubbo for, and he lives in one of the "right" parts of Wagga! Garrie 04:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
What has your brother got to do with this? -- Robertmyers 04:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Not a lot. Feel free to disregard it! Was aimed at perception of wagga vs dubbo but it went wide of the mark. See you all next week!Garrie 05:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Regions

WP:Riverina and SW Slopes

I think Outback is too big and there is plenty to focus on in the Riverina and SW Slopes (WP:R&SWSNSW) - I'll have a go next week at scoping that out. It certainly lacks that certain ring about it but is probably better focussed and more manageable. Regards--A Y Arktos\talk 19:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sisi article

O.K. -- just straighten the thing out. That person has to decide what he is writing about. And it's not a mental health or disease term. Mattisse(talk) 01:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Re Sisi Article

I didn't delete the article. I just removed my talk page writings from the front page - and my talk page writings were an acknowledged copy vio anyway. It was copied from the article's reference to demonstrate that what the article was claiming was contradicted by the article's one source. Mattisse(talk) 11:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

External link -> external links

Could you please identify the additional link in the section which was named "external link" on the article Electoral district of Castle Hill? Thanks!Garrie 22:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course. It is this one:

<!-- doesn't exist yet * [http://www.seo.nsw.gov.au/electoral_districts/district_index/the_hills District profile from the State Electoral Office] -->

<grin> Regards Rich Farmbrough 23:57 14 August 2006 (GMT).
Gee, thanks for clearing that up for me. So sometime after the next election, the page will make sense when someone hopefully unhides the hidden link... Garrie 00:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

summernats

It does mention the 2006 winner - "The Summernats grand champion for 2006 was Aaron Fitzpatrick with a gold 1969 Datsun 510 sedan." --Astrokey44 01:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sydney Swans userbox

To be honest, it doesn't look as though it'll be making another appearance anytime soon. There's been a major crackdown recently on sporting logos appearing on the wiki, and it turns out that some users believe that they are totally unacceptable. I've been lobbying for a change in policy but I don't think the rules will change. For the picture that did appear in the userbox, the copyright tag was recently changed from a "self-made" picture to a copyrighted logo, even though the picture is a "derivative" of the original log. If you have any more questions regarding this just let me know. Cheers, --mdmanser 06:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I severely doubt it. As I said, anything including text (which I think is what you proposed) is considered to be a derivative of a copyrighted logo, which is unable to be used in userspace. Don't stress over it though - it's not the first time this logo removal has occurred in NRL/AFL userboxes. Trust me from experience, it's not the end of the world. --mdmanser 06:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Homo erectus

I'm sorry about the confusion. While I did clean up a little bit and add the tag, I was not the original editor to flag it as an article needing cleanup (I didn't write the comment about a 9th grader). I can see how though you could have made that mistake. sorry about the inconvenience. Justinmeister 15:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Prospect Creek (New South Wales)

You're welcome :) Comte0 00:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hum, I think I'm mistaken: the stream west of Alfords Point and Menai appears to be named Mill Creek. Btw, where did you found what you put in the Prospect Creek infobox? I found [20] myself, which lists 26km for its length, not 17. Comte0 01:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Reply is on your talk page Garrie 02:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The Gazetteer of Australia lists 14 Prospect Creeks in Australia! Now I'm confused... Comte0 03:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Reply is on your talk page Garrie 03:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who noticed the copyvio. The url from which it was taken is still in the deletion log Comte0 03:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

CNN not a citeable source

No, I didn't realize that. It was my impression that anyone with a satellite reciever could receive the CNN information, broadcast from satellite. Thus, "published" because it has no limitation of who receives its information. But, I don't know it all and it is possible the CNN only goes to subscribers. Terryeo 02:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure what direction our discussion is going in. But I do feel that any person or organization which distributes to the public without any restriction but who can pay, has produced a publication. Books sold in stores, pay - per - view, plays which are open to the public, movies in theaters, all satisfy the definition of "publish" as I read it. However, Wikipedia requires more than "publication" to be able to use information. "Publication" is the first threshold, but not the only threshold. My main tickle, recently, has been that certain cited informations have never been published and therefore the threshold of "verifiability" need not come into play at all. There need be no challege to produce a verifiable source because the information was never published. I hope you follow this arguement, some other editors don't. heh. Terryeo 02:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

== Norton Street, Sydney ==

It looks fabulous! Thanks for the efforts. Happy editing, Kukini 22:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

A&R

Angus & Robertson - I agree the street number is unusual and I don't know what it means but I don't really want to remove it. The citation is a good source [21]. Needs further research.

Resignation - I was invited to here and felt discouraged thus asked others to intervene [22]. Focussing on editing for the moment as per one sensible suggestion. Regards--Arktos talk 00:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

<after eavesdropping on AY's page> Garrie, it's also referenced here: [23] I find that fascinating...I've never seen fraction street addresses before. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 01:18, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Redirects

From the Westfield talk page

  • I said - Unfortunately redirects can't point to a specific section :-(.
    • You replied - Um - why not ? I just tried it and it works fine (from a technical viewpoint only)
  • I tried it at User:AYArktos/sandbox/redirecttest and at first I though it does seem to work!!! But if you look at this help item and also click on the redirect test I have set up, you will see it doesn't link to the section I tried to point to but to the top of the page. :-( --Arktos talk 11:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • You have just said again Also, the link can be to a section it doesn't have to be to the top of the article. It doesn't work - well not for me anyway! Please see the code at User:AYArktos/sandbox/redirecttest and then try it - clicking from this page. It possibly makes a difference to how you approach the article's layout.--Arktos talk 23:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Saw you replaced "_" with " ". It links beautifully to the right section from the actual page but doesn't when you click that page from here. I am not sure if I am explaining myself correctly.--Arktos talk 00:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, edit conflict when I tried explaining that here just now. But a link to a section is what is being proposed from the list of shopping centres in ... articles. However, I concur that I won't be able to redirect Westfield Mount Druitt to a section :( Garrie 00:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Ah :-) link from list will work!--Arktos talk 01:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks and misleading comments

Hi - your page was edited by the anon from Gundagai see 203.54.9.232 (talk · contribs). In her inimitable style she has used edit summaries that are attacking and also interspersed her unsigned comments amongst the comments f others making it look as though those comments were made by others. Would you object if I removed them? In their present form they are misleading people to think that either I or Robertmyers made them.--Arktos talk 00:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing these out. I have put the unsigned2 template on them. If you wish to tidy up your own previous comments feel free. I would rather leave the displays of ignorance on this page though.Garrie 02:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

To that user who chooses not to sign their statements, this was a clear open opportunity to collaborate and participate. You are not helping your cause by vandalising my talk page. If you look around I have been trying to identify more valid sources than "geographical names board" for quite a few articles. I would like to see improvements that incorporate aboriginal culture into articles such as the Murrumbidgee, Murray, Wagga Wagga, Marayong, Blacktown, Blackett, etc. However when I get issues like this coming up I become a bit disheartened and turn back to other topics which are a bit less meaningful (eg: crap about shopping centres that probably don't even deserve to be included in an encyclopedia). If you want to participate please do so in an open manner and understand that some other people around here have tried to encourage similar perspectives to your own. Calling other people stupid does not make you look smart. Rather than calling me dumb. Please point me to a definative map that shows me where the boundaries of the Riverina are. It would be a welcome addition to Riverina. It seems, Gundagai is inside the federal electoral Division of Riverina. Given your other edits were to WWF events that may be outside of your field of knowledge.Garrie 02:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

What is the above About

I just read the above. I have no idea what it is about. Yes, Gundagai is in the Riverina electoral district but Riverina as a geo district is nmoted as running through the Centre of Wagga, not through Gundgaai. Its pointless using electoral boundaries as boundaries here as electoral boundaries change each few years, whereas geo/climatic boundaries dont. Gundagai is in the South Western Slopes.

For tourism purposes Gundagai is in the Riverina and also in the Southern Highlands. That will get changed next year too probably. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.54.9.138 (talk • contribs) 11:55, 25 December 2006

  • As posted at talk page for above ip address:

Hi a few things: 1. the comment you left was in the middle of my talk page making it very difficult to work out what was going on. As the conversation you were referring to was so old you would have been better off putting a new section in using the + tab on the toolbar at the top of the Wikipedia screen and referring to the conversation by the name of the section. 2. If you actually want to carry out a conversation please get an account and sign in, and sign your name. Your real-world anonimity is better protected by signing in as a generally meaningless user ID - your computers ip address is then not available to the general public and your computers ip address clearly links you to an ISP and usually an ISP's access node. For people who really know what they are doing it can be easy to go the next step of working out what computer had the ip address when the comment was left.

3. I have had several conversations with a wide range of people regarding country New South Wales, Gundagai, the Riverina region, proposed projects, improvements to articles, aboriginal POV in articles.... I really don't remember the context of the conversation (which was back in August) any more. Sorry. As you point out, in Australia, region names mean different things to different organisations (federal vs state vs local government, between government organisations, private businesses). The only things I KNOW about gundagai, geographically, is it's on the western side of the gread dividing range, on the banks / floodplain of the murrumbidgee river, adjacent to the Hume highway. Garrie 01:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Aboriginal massacres

There was never any response, so I dond't move it.--Peta 05:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

RE: Boxing Kangaroo Pen

Thanks for your interest! I was pretty distraught when all those 1337 people ganged up on me and deleted my article. Thanks for saying something constructive! It means alot. *bj* 07:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Refs

I saw your question about using cite.php referencing at the talk page of User:AYArktos. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at an article already using this system. This article is one which I recently edited today to use this referencing system. I often use an already referenced article as a means to cut and paste the code, making the job a lot easier. -- Longhair 10:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, I could have chosen a more neutral topic to use as an example on referencing rather than this particular article. No offence was intended and you do have my sincere apologies. As you know Wikipedia is not censored in any way but I could have pre-warned you. I've got to pop out for a moment but if you need any further assistance with referencing feel free to let me know how I can help. Upon my return I'll check in to see how your work is going. -- Longhair 01:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah as I posted on your talk I have a bit of a conflict of interest with that article and I would rather not have it mentioned outright on my talk page. Rather than deleting it I have piped the reference. I will still show up on special:what links here but I guess I can live with that. Garrie 03:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Just a thanks,

Dear Garrie, thanks for taking the time to read through and offer an unbiased opinion on the Waldorf ed page. I think if we can get some more unbiased folks to pop in now & then we can keep everyone in line...and end up with a page that better represents both Wikipedia and Waldorf. I have proposed that we make the changes you suggest along with some other pages. Wonderactivist 14:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope my contribution leads to an improvement in the article. From what is presented it certainly appears to be a significant and worthwhile topic. Garrie 21:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Erika Sawajiri

"AFAIK they don't have slavery in Japan do they?" Thats funny. The way these agencies treat their talent, it is almost as if they have slavery in Japan. I have made several corrections to this article, including addressing your comment. Thanks Naerhu 08:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope the article no longer says, people are owned by corporations! Garrie 21:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Farm dams

There's a small amount of info and a picture at Dam#Embankment_dams, but I think that's just another place to put a link to the Farm dam article you propose. --Scott Davis Talk 04:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Rookwood

You asked What about some references to verify: what Rookwood Cemetry is, where it is, when it opened, how big it is, why it is (where it is and as big as it is), who is buried there (both generically, (eg, irish catholics but not irish protestants maybe? ) and specifically (surely someone famous is interred here - did you use 5 ~s by accident? Why don't you fix the article? Are you really suggesting a to-do list? see Wikipedia:To-do list?--Arktos talk 11:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

M2 Hills Motorway

I'm not too sure how I can get the exact sources for traffic jams on the M2, but I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the tip. (Don'tblockme 09:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

User has been blocked. But I left a message asking they bottom-post not top-post. If you're back with a new account name, let me know! Garrie 23:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:Bus companies / route information

Thanks for your comments and advice, but I only added this general route information to inform commuters about the routes BusLink provides. I don't want this section of the article to go the way of Sydney bus routes 100-199, which was deleted (and I'm a bit disapointed about that still). Send me another message if need be.

Whats new? 06:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh ok. I understand what you mean now. I should describe general route information. Comments about BusLink#Routes would be great!
-- Whats new? 16:59, 7 September 2006 (AEST)
Thanks for the comments. Truly noted!
--Whats new? 06:08, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Use common names

I know his full name is Anthony, but all the evidence I can find suggests that he is generally referred to as Tony. We use common names on Wikipedia, thus the article should be located at the latter location. I'm a bit sick of having to correct you and Newhoggy putting articles at names that the people concerned rarely, if ever, actually used. I have corrected the link, though, so now it points to the proper title. Rebecca 03:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, give me some credit. All the hits I was referring to were to this particular Tony Johnson. Rebecca 03:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


Cir(c)ular Quay

Hey, are you aware there are two sorta similar articles Circular Quay ferry wharf, Sydney and Circular Quay, New South Wales? My issue on the "ferry warf" article was why is the bus rout information on the ferry warf article, not on "the other one".

I don't know if they maybe should be merged but the bus route info shouldn't be on the article with "ferry warf" in the name should it? Garrie 00:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

They are two different articles - the first is for the locality itself - this article should be expanded to show information on the various buildings around there, eg. the Toaster controversy, the MCA, the Cahill Expressway, etc. The ferry wharf article should have the ferry interchange information - it's quite historic as originally each service was run by a different private company, although I don't know where you could get specific historical information... but the bus information belongs with the wharf information as well as the station information as they show the transport links available. I'm in the process of formatting the bus articles like Brisbanes so all you have to do is type in the bus route in a template and all the information comes up automatically. This can then be linked to every station, wharf and bus station that's relevant. (JROBBO 04:19, 16 October 2006 (UTC))

Re: User:Foo

Unfortunately, the name User:Foo has been taken, and the account has made contributions (Special:Contributions/Foo). (The Talk page was being used incorrectly by a third editor; the account Foo seems to be inactive, but exists.) Historically the bureaucrats have rejected requests to take up the account of even existing users who have never contributed; due to the existence of contributions of the genuine Foo, it is incredibly unlikely that anyone else will be given the account. If you find an untaken name that you wish to change to, you can go to WP:CHU to request a username change (do not create the untaken name if you wish to do this). To summarize: there are three people involved, the genuine Foo (who has not been active since March), a second user who was using User talk:Foo to try to hide warnings, and you (who want to change username); the first user here has priority on the username and will likely be allowed to keep it. For further information, you may wish to contact the bureaucrats at WP:BN. --ais523 07:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Westfield Bondi Junction

There's a ridiculous AfD on Westfield Bondi Junction at the moment here. We would appreciate your input, regardless of your current works to merge all Westfields into one article. JROBBO 12:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. Bad faith is not something I usually allege, because it's not usually an issue. It's just that in this particular case, there is a major ongoing violation of WP:POINT, with a certain user throwing just about every shopping centre article on Wikipedia on AfD regardless of apparent notability, leading to situations like the above with Bondi Junction. I'll keep it in mind, though, for future discussions. Cheers, Rebecca 02:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The Westfield Group

No worries. Glad to help out! --Mhking 03:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

State-level NG Units

Thanks for the input. That article is not principally of my making. I started a very short draft of the thing (see the initial stub of Alabama Army National Guard) and then User:CORNELIUSSEON, one of the members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force. I think he did a great job on making the article better, and so after a discussion with the project leader of the WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force (Kirill Lokshin) about how best to extend that to additional state-level articles, I just volunteered to do some of the grunt work to make it happen. After using CORNSELLIUSSEON's template to create new pages, I have pretty much just made a number of little incremental edits. By the way, there is a thread called National Guard on the WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force page that will show some of the discussion that got it started.

I can see your point about the initial section of the articles being a bit long, but I'm probably the wrong person to have the discussion with since I didn't write it. I will plan to hold off on adding any additional new state-level articles until the great Wikipedia editing-machine-by-consensus decides what to do on this subject. Mvialt 01:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Textbot 05:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC) thanks for comments re Darwin Stubby. I agree some scale would be nice, I see another user has used a US 5c coin (on edge)for a similar pic. I don't have my own camera, so it may take some time to re-take. Pls note tho that a) the size is clearly legible on the bottle itself and b)there is an accompanying caption below the image, xplaining the volumes of the objects ! I'd be so grateful if you could "tidy" the existing link from "Beer Bottle" which I could only do clumsily !

RE: Emerton

Yes, I am looking to find info about him. --Bezking 11:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

At least I'm not alone

Thanks for your comments on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sydney/Railway stations. I thought I was the only one. Joestella 04:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I don't have anything against railway stations. A large proportion of my writing here has been on public transport in Sydney. I just want the stubs that are, in effect, CityRail mirror pages gone. I am inclined to support mergers, but if someone goes out and adds real, verifiable content to them, I'll be even happier. Of course, it won't happen. Joestella 04:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
now, that's just nasty. BTW - what's next weeks winning lotto numbers ;^) you seem to be able to see into the future!Garrie 04:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about schools and Westfields. They're bigger than most railway stations, and employ more staff. On the other hand, I suspect these articles are composed, to a large extent, on the basis of personal experience. Joestella 04:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Top posting on MLR page

I did this to avoid confusion between a current and past merge proposal. Joestella 04:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

That's why there's a date in your signature - you could try a significantly different subject. But looking at what was there - if the articles aren't improved by the time I come back to work after christmas I'll be bold and merge them anyway! WP:RS and all that.Garrie 04:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I saw your comments on Joe's talk page, and I have to say that they concerns me. I'm really tired of AfD being used as a substitute for Wikipedia:Requests for expansion. I find these stations notable and interesting, and I'm not the only one. The material is there to expand them, should anyone take it up. I'd certainly like to see them expanded too. But I, like most people, also have diverse interests on Wikipedia, and I'm getting very sick of having to spend more and more of my time in areas where people are trying to get articles deleted purely on the basis that they haven't been expanded. The unnecessary bitterness brought on by having to fight these sorts of rearguard deletion battles is costing users - I read a couple of academics expressing such sentiments a bit earlier, and I'm sure they won't be the last. Rebecca 04:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

Thanks for your message. My change to The Westfield Group article was just a copyedit. Don't really edit that article. Cheers! --Alexxx1 (talk/contribs) 05:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

RE Khe Sanh

Sorry my man. The reply was not meant to be condescending at all. Maybe just the result of getting wacked in the head with a hammer a few too many times. That's just basically what somebody told me about ten articles ago. You think the Gen-X article is bad, just check out the hippie article!. Back to work! RM Gillespie 13:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Westfield Bondi Junction

I did actually add some references to the article, see [24]. Do you mean that "unparalleled financial success" one I mentioned from Fairfax? If so, it just slipped my mind. Sorry, but I assure you I'm not one to just drop references into AfD discussions without helping to improve the article. --Canley 00:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

ACN 121 239 674 Limited

I think you're being a bit harsh on Joe on this one. Most other student organisations around the country have articles, and all of these organisations were notable for their own articles before they merged, so it rather makes sense that the new, larger organisation would also be notable. I know the title is a bit silly at the moment, but I really don't think there's much of a cloud over the notability of the new entity, and it will have a proper name in a month or two. Rebecca 04:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I hope former student unions remain important enough to be worth writing articles about but I think it's a bit steep to suggest shelf companies - who only people with staff-level knowledge know the trading / legal name of - are notable as an entity. Personally at the moment I would be mentioning the existence on a near-identical section in each of the founding organisations articles.
I stand by my opinion about him creating articles about his workplace though.
Good to see you having something positive to say about someone who you seem to be so opposed to so often! It shows you do look at situations on individual merit (which it seems some find hard to believe about you). Garrie 04:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

ACN blah blah blah

I don't work for these people. What makes you think I do? The place I work in non-notable and has no article. Joestella 06:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Indebtedness

Partner in crime, thanks for your rather throughtful, inspirational advice. Please keep me updated if need be, suggesting articles and different methods.

--DrZeus 02:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Try to engage

Hi GarrieIrons. I have discussed it at Wikipedia talk:Notability. My comment on the Wikiproject Sydney page was to point out that the "guideline" refered to was on quite shakey gound and that people should not be intimidated by a claim of guideline status, and the impliction that it is backed by the community. Comments on talk pages are in direct response to comments on my talk page.

My post to Wikipedia talk:Notability was a day or so before the post to Wikiproject Sydney, prompted by another person trying to use "Notability" to remove stuff (not mine) from Wikipedia that they did not find relevant. That's what is making me very wary of Notability as a guideline: all sorts of people using it in inconsistent ways. What can be deleted under notability seems to be limited mainly by one's imagination. It's interesting that you refer to it as a proposed guideline, as those who apply it seem to see it as a fully fledged guideline (more ambiguity). My point exactly about sources. Article should have sources, but that is a point of verifiability, not notability. John Dalton 04:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your sentiments, that articles need citations. I disagree with your solution (deletion). To my mind deletion is not a positive contribution. A positive contribution is to find some references. There is also the issue of being condescending towards the reader. The reader is intelligent enough to realise that an article without references or with a "citations needed" tag should not be fully trusted. Deletion takes the decision out of the readers hands as to what they are prepared to trust and what they are not. What right do we have to make the decision that an article is not fit for someone else to read? Finally are you sure that deleting marginal article is not about "keeping up appearances"? I agree that it a tempting thing to keep Wikipedia looking "nice", but apart from reducing Wikipedia to an Encarta or Britannica clone does niceness have any function? Keeping Wikipedia too nice is like a "nice" housing estate where everyone lives in identical houses (because the rules say so) only a small portion of the world can afford (or wants to) to live there and diversity (and creativity) is dead. We cannot make Wikipedia nice at the price of diversity. Marginal articles are Wikipedia's version of a shanty town. Improve them, but please don't bulldoze them and evict the residents. John Dalton 23:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Circle Court

I don't think we have anything on this project, though we certainly should have. There are a number of versions in use around the country: Canberra is using a slightly different one to that in use in Sydney, but the general principles are the same. I could try and help with research, but I'm probably not the best person to write the article - a few months ago, I was one of a group of law students who were given permission to sit in on a Circle Court session in Canberra, and it was the most horrifying miscarriage of justice that I have ever seen. Rebecca 13:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the Circle Court idea in principle - I think there are issues that need to be addressed to curb the high rate of indigenous suicide in jail, and so I went along thinking I was going to see something fantastic. What I saw, though, was horrifying.
This indigenous guy had, in a drunken, racist, unprovoked attack, beaten a Sudanese man with an iron bar, permanently depriving him of the use of his right arm and leaving him in permanent pain which was never going to go away. This had removed his livelihood, as he worked as a labourer, and was going to force him into bankruptcy, as he could no longer pay back the loans he'd taken to bring his family out here. The offender was unremorseful, and was still trying to make excuses and blame the victim for the attack in the court session.
Despite this, he got off with only probation requiring him to undergo drug and alcohol rehabilitation. Although he was charged with a crime with a maximum of five years (and the prosecution had gone light on that - with what he'd done, he could well have gone up on a charge with a maximum of 25 years), all of the elders were opposed on principle to sending him to jail at all. None of the elders were familiar with even the basics of the law - including what sentencing options they had available. At least two of the elders were very obviously having trouble following the basic facts of the case, and there was a distinct feeling of bias towards the offender, leading to this really confrontational situation between the indigenous and Sudanese representatives - very bad when one of those sides is making the decision. The victim and his representatives left really devastated - he'd gotten away with this horrifying attack when there were absolutely no mitigating circumstances. I was utterly horrified - there was no way this could be called justice, in any way, shape or form. Rebecca 13:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
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