User talk:Erutuon/2020

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Wilson Phung

Hello Erutuon. To this pronunciation, we should write [fʌŋ] or [fɒŋ] ? 138.229.19.202 (talk) 23:49, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This soundfile is in an odd tone of voice, which I do not understand. Why are you asking me about it? Are you the same person who keeps asking how to spell various words in IPA? Did you record this sound file? I refuse to answer your question until you answer my impertinent questions. — Eru·tuon 11:09, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm Fête. I would like to know how should I transcribe it, but the intonation is not important, I would like to know only the last vowel. 205.237.30.149 (talk) 18:57, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. Well, it sounds like a typical General American-ish /ʌ/ phoneme, as in but, which is natural because it's spelled with u rather than o. (I'm not saying whether it's phonetically [ʌ], an unrounded back open-mid vowel.) — Eru·tuon 20:59, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In American English, this vowel can be [ɐ] or [ʌ], but in this recording, it sounds like between [ʌ] and [ɒ], so can I trancribe it [ɒ̈]? 138.229.19.202 (talk) 21:29, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno. It just sounds kinda like [ɜ] to me. — Eru·tuon 21:55, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

orange

Hello Erutuon. This pronunciation is recorded by a French-speaking woman, you heard [ˈɑɹind͡ʒ] or [ˈɑɹeɪnd͡ʒ]? If the pronunciation is wrong, we should remove from Wiktionary. 138.229.19.202 (talk) 15:13, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's fine. It sounds like a typical RP pronunciation. — Eru·tuon 18:52, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

British people never pronounce [ɑ]. 138.229.19.202 (talk) 20:22, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't hear [ɑ], I hear my more-or-less RP pronunciation with [ɒ]. Peter coxhead (talk) 20:53, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

grammar

Hello Erutuon. If someone knows that he must say thank you, but he refuses anyway, can we say "he knows that he must say thank you, but no action"? This grammar is acceptable? 138.229.19.202 (talk) 15:09, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reversion

Why have you undone my edit on the Galician IPA section of that article?? The pronunciation given is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Redfield (talk • contribs) 21:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jack Redfield: I explained in my edit summary: "the transcription is correct; see Galician phonology#Vowels and Help:IPA/Galician". I mean the transcription is correct according to these articles; perhaps the articles are wrong, in which case they should be corrected before the transcription in Voiceless dental fricative is changed. — Eru·tuon 22:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I tell you again it is wrong. In the chart of the article you mentioned it's clearly stated <o> makes [o] or [ɔ]. I myself am Galician and I can tell you cero is pronounced ['θe.ro]. The transcription is wrong. Besides, check here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cero#Galician

Jack Redfield (talk) 23:18, 25 April 2020 (UTC)Jack Redfield[reply]

@Jack Redfield: The table in Galician phonology#Vowels shows five stressed vowel phonemes, but we are talking about phonetics. Lower down it discusses the phonetics, when it says "In Galician the vocalic system is reduced to five vowels in post-tonic syllables, and to just three in final unstressed position: [ɪ, ʊ, ɐ]". The o in zero is final and unstressed, so according to Help:IPA/Galician, it's pronounced as [ʊ]. The sound file in the Wiktionary article has a more open final vowel than [ʊ] (and the final vowel is also strangely lengthened), but the Forvo sound file has something more like [ʊ].

I don't claim expertise in Galician, but the transcription in Voiceless dental fricative should remain consistent with Galician phonology and Help:IPA/Galician. If these articles are wrong, please start a discussion on Talk:Galician phonology or Help talk:IPA/Galician. — Eru·tuon 04:49, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the phonemic description in Help_talk:IPA/Galician is wrong too. Galician doesn't have the [ʊ] phoneme; it belongs to Portuguese.

This is the official site of the Galician Culture Council: http://consellodacultura.gal/cdsg/loia/gramatica.php?idioma=3#g21. Look at the second chart—[ʊ] isn't listed there.

--Jack Redfield (talk) 17:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jack Redfield: [ʊ] isn't a phoneme, but an allophone – that's why it's in square brackets [] rather than slashes //. — Eru·tuon 17:36, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quebec accent

un passeport [œ̃ʏ̯̃ ˈpɑːspɒːʁ] :

Hello Erutuon. I already wrote that /ɔ/ changed to [ɒː] before /ʁ/ in Quebec French, but some people don't believe me. In fact, have you heard [œ̃ʏ̯̃ ˈpɑːspɒːʁ]? 138.229.19.202 (talk) 22:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Kotschy

Template:Kotschy has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. TheImaCow (talk) 08:15, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Trees of" categories

Hi, I share your sigh when editing Fagus grandifolia‎ over the "Trees of" distribution categories. There are two serious problems with this set of categories:

They are randomly incomplete, so a plant that is native to a number of regions ends up in "Flora of" some and "Trees of" others, which does not aid navigation. Yet they cannot be made to match the "Flora of" categories without creating many very small categories.
"Tree" has a fuzzy definition. We've had arguments over bananas, for example, which botanically are clearly not trees, but which are often called that in common use. Bamboos and tree ferns have also been problematic. Genera like Cornus contain herbaceous plants, shrubs and trees, and so get split up, making cross-checking difficult.

I'm not sure that there's anything that can be done now, but I note that the editors who created the "Trees of" categories don't appear to be members of WP:PLANTS and there's no evidence that any consensus was sought for their creation. So I join you in sighing. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

footnoteCleanup.js

Hi Erutuon, I tried using User:Erutuon/scripts/footnoteCleanup.js on Operation Giant Lance to no effect. Am I missing something or does the script not work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk • contribs) 08:33, August 9, 2020 (UTC)

@Coffeeandcrumbs: Yep, I don't use it. I tried loading it and there's an error that makes it crash. Try User:Erutuon/scripts/cleanup.js; it has a button for moving footnotes after punctuation and I actually use it so it has a significant chance of working. — Eru·tuon 18:01, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What else does the script do? I want to update Wikipedia:User scripts/List. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's a huge list of tasks that I've wanted to do automatically at some point, but I'd rather not have the script as a whole on the user script list, because that would commit me to some kind of guarantee that it works out-of-the-box, when I haven't been using it much lately and you can't just save the edit but have to look over the diff in case the script made any mistakes. It's a personal script really, and comes with no guarantees, though some of the buttons would probably be useful to others if they were split into a separate script. But you can figure out some of the tasks by looking at the addSummary function calls. — Eru·tuon 18:35, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dental sounds in Old French

The symbols in the Old French phonology section do not represent the dental sounds; a dental fricative would be represented by /ð/ or /θ/, whilst /s/ is only indicative of an alveolar fricative.

Apologies for undoing your undoing of my edit by the way; I'm relatively new to editing Wikipedia and was not aware that you had added a note. 1tome2 (talk) 23:09, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please disregard this message; I have realised I was incorrect, and I have undone my edit on the Old French section. My apologies; I will try to be more accurate in the future. 1tome2 (talk) 23:31, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@1tome2: Oh, okay. I had written a long reply so I'll just post it here in case it's interesting.

It's true that /θ/ and /ð/ are dental; however, /s/ and /z/ can represent dental sounds as well, though typically not the same sounds as standard English dental fricatives. See the notes to French phonology § Consonants and Italian phonology § Consonants for instance; /s/ and /z/ here represent dentalized laminal alveolar, which sounds quite different from English th. /s/ and /z/ are most likely to be used when the sound is sibilant (higher pitched, sharp), and /θ/ and /ð/ when it's fuzzier and lower-pitched. Maybe a dental /s/ or /z/ would usually be pronounced with the tongue near the base of the upper teeth, because, at least for me, making a sibilant on the tip of the upper teeth is a bit harder and doesn't come out as well. I don't know what evidence there is for the exact articulation of the Old French consonants, but maybe it's supposed to have been similar to Modern French dental /s/ and /z/. — Eru·tuon 23:44, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Module:Language/scripts

Hey, are you still interested in Module:Language/scripts and its sub-modules? Asking as they aren't used so wanted to get your input first. --Gonnym (talk) 10:30, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: No, it's fine with me if they're deleted. The Unicode script part of it is handled by Module:Unicode data now, and the Wiktionary script part (in Module:Language/scripts/data) doesn't belong on Wikipedia. — Eru·tuon 20:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, good to know! Would you mind tagging it with G7 just so it doesn't have to wait 7 days in TfD? --Gonnym (talk) 20:16, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: Done. At least, I marked the top level module and added a note that submodules should also be deleted. Let me know if I should put the template on every subpage as well. — Eru·tuon 21:56, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Mount Kosciuszko

I know it's old, but way back in Dec 2015, you changed the pronunciation of Mt Kosciuszko from the correct, documented and cited /kɒziːˈɒskoʊ/ to the incorrect /kɒziːˈʌskoʊ/ with your reasoning being the speculative "I can't access Macquarie, but it's highly unlikely the u is pronounced /ɒ/ and not /ʌ/". It has taken five years for someone capable of accessing the Macquarie, reading the IPA and with the energy to care to restore this to the correct pronunciation (if you care about the statistics and the legibility of the IPA spellings, it only took seven months between someone adding a respelling with the incorrect pronunciation and someone trying to bring it in line with the community pronunciation). A lot can happen in five years, and you may now already have independently concluded that changing sourced material without accessing the source based on a hunch is not a reasonable action, but if it hasn't, please don't change sourced material without accessing the source based on a hunch. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mount_Kosciuszko&diff=697044792&oldid=696904709 2A02:8108:4CC0:14D4:3B63:5707:2D59:3D89 (talk) 22:20, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No hard feelings 2A02:8108:4CC0:14D4:3B63:5707:2D59:3D89 (talk) 22:20, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for correcting the article. It was an ill-considered edit on my part. I checked Forvo and can hear the -osko. — Eru·tuon 22:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I wouldn't have thought to use such tools in 2015 but a good resource today! 2A02:8108:4CC0:14D4:3B63:5707:2D59:3D89 (talk) 23:46, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]