User talk:Elatu

Elatu, you are invited on a Wikipedia Adventure!

The

Adventure

Hi Elatu!! You're invited: learn how to edit Wikipedia in under an hour. I hope to see you there! Ocaasi

Play The Wikipedia Adventure

This message was delivered by HostBot (talk) 17:33, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A belated welcome!

Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Elatu. I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page, consult Wikipedia:Questions, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there.

Again, welcome! HighInBC 19:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Coined Phrase??? Try the Western Style Dressage Association of Canada, it is NOT a coined discipline. http://westernstyledressage.ca Check out http://www.USEF.org Both cite WESTERN DRESSAGE as a discipline SEPARATE from Dressage Elatu (talk) 20:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright

I have deleted your draft article, Draft:Western Dressage and your edits to Western Dressage as they are almost a direct word for word copy of this website. Wikipedia can not accept material copied from other places unless that information is released under a compatible license. I saw no indication on that page that the indicate the material has been released under a compatible license. -- GB fan 19:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I WROTE that Article! So, What do you mean about license??? Elaine Ward aka elainewardwesterndressage.blogspot.com So much for due diligence! Seems like Wiki is a waste of time. I can point you to several individuals who love to plagiarize these pages and use them for profit. What are your thoughts on that????

if you wrote it then the way is clear. All you have to do is add a compatible license to the page and I will undelete everything. This page, Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials, gives instructions on what to do. I personally do not like that people make money off of Wikipedia, but it is legal as long as they comply with the rules. -- GB fan 20:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, will look into this donating copyrighting materials. As for the plagiarism, no, there is never any credit to Wikepedia. There should be correct? Elatu (talk) 20:17, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I hereby affirm that CHOOSE ONE: [I, (Elaine Ward), am] OR [I represent (copyright holder's name), ] the creator and/or sole owner of the exclusive copyright of CHOOSE ONE: [elainewardwesterndressage.blogspot.com] OR [attached images or text].

I agree to publish the above-mentioned content under the free license: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported and GNU Free Documentation License (unversioned, with no invariant sections, front-cover texts, or back-cover texts). (THIS IS THE STANDARD CHOICE; YOU MAY CHOOSE ANOTHER ACCEPTABLE FREE LICENSE, IF YOU WISH TO)

I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws.

I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites.

I am aware that I always retain copyright of my work, and retain the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed to have been made by me.

I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project.

[Elaine Ward] [Owner/Author of Elaine Ward Western Dressage/Elaine Ward Clinician and Teacher of Western Dressage contact email elaine.ward@rogers.com] [November 24 2015]

It also looks like you may have coined the term "Western Dressage" for what you teach and write about. The only source cited is your own blog. But articles on Wikipedia need to have *independent*, third-party, reliable sources to show their notability. See WP:V. So in order for this article to remain, even with the copyright permission, you'd need to cite other sources that use and define "Western Dressage". NawlinWiki (talk) 20:27, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And I ask you again.....what is your policy on Plagiarism of Wikipedia??? Elatu (talk) 20:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The policy is that anyone who reuses Wikipedia needs to provide attribution. If they don't they aren't following the copyrights. -- GB fan 20:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Coined Phrase??? Try the Western Style Dressage Association of Canada, it is NOT a coined discipline. http://westernstyledressage.ca Check out http://www.USEF.org Both cite WESTERN DRESSAGE as a discipline SEPARATE from Dressage Elatu (talk) 20:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC) Elatu (talk) 20:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC) I can provide more information on one person that had continually committed plagiarism of Wiki than you can handle. Then what is the recourse really? Elatu (talk) 20:41, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The recourse is for the editor(s) that wrote the material to use the legal system to have them provide proper attribution. They can't ask for damages as there are none. I wouldn't feel it is personally worth my time. None of this has anything to do with Wikipedia using copyrighted material. We remove it when we find it like I did with the information you added. -- GB fan 21:25, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, GB fan, way to bite a newcomer! You are making a mountain out of a molehill here. It's better to try and gently educate a new editor about WP:SELFPUB and WP:V issues, and in this case, the slightest iota of Googling would have clearly established notability for the topic. Montanabw ^(talk) 21:56, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GB was very reasonable, I don't see any biting here. There is a simple explanation of our requirements. Potential copyright violations must be deleted on sight to protect the project, simply deleting a contribution is not biting. Copyright violations are not "molehills", Wikipedia(like all publishers) must be able to prove that it takes reasonable efforts to avoid copyright infringement or it can be shut down.

GB took the time and effort to explain things to this user. Notability is not an issue since the deletion was due to copyright, at no time was the subject itself denied. HighInBC 22:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The deletion might have been necessary if it was a blatent copy and paste, but the CCI tag that covers the page and a more polite explanation would have been good, and, yes, see above, notability WAS raised - and poorly done - knee-jerk deletionist behavior really does discourage new editors. Montanabw ^(talk) 22:06, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have read everything GB said on this page and I don't see mention of notability. It is mentioned by another user. The explanation seems plenty polite to me, they even offered a way forward. User:NawlinWiki did bring up notability, but not GB. HighInBC 22:12, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But, Elatu, the copyright notice would have to be on your blog, not here (after all, we have no way to prove you are really that other person here, and besides, even if you are, it really isn't a great idea to reveal your identity until you know the ropes). And even if you released it, it's still a blog and we generally can't use blogs as sources on wikipedia anyway (see WP:BLOGS) Also, I personally think it's a really bad idea to put your own real-world work into the public domain because then everyone can use it for free without credit to you... but that's just my opinion. Montanabw ^(talk) 22:06, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Montanabw, I am not sure what you believe I did wrong here. I found some copyright violations and deleted them. I then came here and let Elatu know what I had done and why. Then tried to explain how to fix the problem after she explained who she was. I tried to answer all the questions she asked about others using Wikipedia to make money. I don't believe I was disrespectful. I am not sure what molehill I made into a mountain. Can you please explain that? -- GB fan 22:43, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It was the bit, above, where you said that Western Dressage wasn't a real thing. Montanabw ^(talk) 06:51, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Montanabw, I never said Western Dressage wasn't a real thing. I only discussed copyright concerns, both for the text that she submitted and then in responses to her questions about others reusing articles from Wikipedia. If you re-read the conversations on this page you will see that the question of notability and being made up was brought up by NawlinWiki not me. -- GB fan 10:53, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! You're right. My apologies. I do think the bit you added about using the legal system may have been a little overkill too, but I did blur your comment into the one previous, so my error. Sorry. Montanabw ^(talk) 11:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The one about using the legal system was a response to her question about what recourse there is against people who plagiarize Wikipedia and do not give credit. Using the legal system is that recourse. There was nothing against her in that comment, just an expression of my opinion to answer her question. -- GB fan 11:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Western dressage

Hi, I noticed that your western dressage article got redirected. I don't doubt that the article is needed, but you can't copy and paste stuff without the copyright (if you have the copyright, as you said above, that's OK!). If you are interested in recreating the article, please read WP:Your first article and consider joining WP:WikiProject Equine. They/we (I'm a member) can help you write horsey articles that meet Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. I would be willing to help you out with this if you'd like to colloraborate with somebody used to Wikipedia, as I had had it in the back of my mind to do a western dressage article. Let me know what you think. If you have questions, you can come ask at my talk page, (click on 'Neigh' after my name) or I'll come back here to see your reply. Hope to see you at WPEQ. ☺🐴White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 00:05, 25 November 2015 (UTC) Add:I have recreated the article. Please read the comments on the talk page and look at other articles to see how riding discipline articles are usually structured. I look forward to working with you on the article! White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 16:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, sorry we folks from WikiProject Equine arrived late here! Consider this an invitation to join us at WP:EQUINE. As far as the above problem, even if it's your own article, it is going to be altered and edited by others, and it has to be cited to outside, third-party reliable sources... you might be willing to put your blog into the public domain (which, IMHO is actually not a real good idea because people can then just copy your stuff for free without credit to you) but it still is a self-published work, so we can't cite to it here. I know that's a bummer, but there's a lot of kind of nutty people who want to publish their own tinfoil helmet theories and so wikipedia had to have rules about verifiability from reliable sources. But both WAF and I are willing to lend you a hand to help you get started as an editor around here. Montanabw ^(talk) 21:53, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mountains and Molehills

I don't have time for rhetoric and personal cat fights between admins and mods. How can you prove it's me? What would you like? Google elaine.ward@rogers.com to find my connection to my name and western dressage and then email me. Seems like even the remote attempt to publish information about this new sport has spurned a discussion about nothing but power and control over who is politically correct. IMO not much different than the computer chair professionals of the horse world. Elatu (talk) 23:07, 25 November 2015 (UTC) Elatu (talk) 23:07, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you want the information that I deleted back in Wikipedia all you would have to do is edit your blog post and add "Released under CC-BYSA 3.0" to the bottom and I will restore everything I deleted. -- GB fan 23:25, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your identity is not an issue to us. While the content of your blog can only be used if it is released to a compatible copyright that won't help because we don't use blogs as sources. You are correct to disregard any internal squabbling you see. We have no objection to the subject itself, it is just that we have standards for the content of our site. HighInBC 23:26, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have to say that I think this is partially happening because we have to deal with a lot of people who try to use Wikipedia to publish their own original research (and yes, I've dealt with a lot of the computer-chair pros as well). Now. Let's all go edit some articles and quit fussing about copyvios. The issue is resolved. Elatu, I'm glad you're here and editing. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 00:37, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The blog can't be used anyway, because it's self-published with no third party citations. Western Dressage is real, and it's not about the discipline, it's just that people can't use their own original research here. You wrote a nice essay, but without footnotes and citations, it's just "original research" (see WP:NOR ). Bummer for those involved, but even highly notable people have the same issues. WP:COI and WP:NOADS and WP:COPYVIO are not "politically correct" issues, they are drop dead policies here. Trust me, it's not about you and it's definitely not about western dressage. Montanabw ^(talk) 06:59, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]