User talk:DriftingSunWeb

Your submission at Articles for creation: Drifting sun (November 8)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by MatthewVanitas was:

This submission's references do not adequately evidence the subject's notability—see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing, so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia.
What you can do: Add citations (see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners) to secondary reliable sources that are entirely independent of the subject.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:DriftingSunWeb/Drifting sun and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
You can also get real-time chat help from experienced editors.

MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! DriftingSunWeb, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

MV reply

Hello, DriftingSunWeb. You have new messages at MatthewVanitas's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

MV reply 2

Hello, DriftingSunWeb. You have new messages at MatthewVanitas's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Your recent edits

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment; or
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This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 08:24, 9 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of User:DriftingSunWeb

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on User:DriftingSunWeb requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. This article or image appears to be a direct copy from http://www.driftingsun-music.com/the-story/. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website or image but have permission from that owner, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Whpq (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Drifting Sun

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Draft:Drifting Sun requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. This article or image appears to be a direct copy from http://www.driftingsun-music.com/the-story/. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website or image but have permission from that owner, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Whpq (talk) 21:19, 13 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

MV reply to your question on my page

Hello, DriftingSunWeb. You have new messages at MatthewVanitas's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, DriftingSunWeb. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Draft:Drifting Sun, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:

Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies. Note that Wikipedia's terms of use require disclosure of your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 04:43, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment; or
With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button ( or ) located above the edit window.

This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 09:18, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, DriftingSunWeb. You have new messages at Whpq's talk page.
Message added 12:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Whpq (talk) 12:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended for publicity and/or promotional purposes. If you intend to edit constructively in other topic areas, you may be granted the right to continue under a change of username. Please read the following carefully.

Why can't I edit Wikipedia?

Your account's edits and/or username indicate that it is being used on behalf of a company, group, website or organization for purposes of promotion and/or publicity. The edits may have violated one or more of our rules on spamming, which include: adding inappropriate external links, posting advertisements and using Wikipedia for promotion. Wikipedia has many articles on companies, groups, and organizations, but such groups are generally discouraged from using Wikipedia to write about themselves. In addition, usernames like yours are disallowed under our username policy.

Am I allowed to make these edits if I change my username?

Probably not, although if you can demonstrate a pattern of future editing in strict accordance with our neutral point of view policy, you may be granted this right. See Wikipedia's FAQ for Organizations for a helpful list of frequently asked questions by people in your position. Also, review the conflict of interest guidance to see the kinds of limitations you would have to obey if you did want to continue editing about your company, group, organization, or clients. If this does not fit in with your goals, then you will not be allowed to edit Wikipedia again.

What can I do now?

If you have no interest in writing about some other topic than your organization, group, company, or product, you may consider using one of the many websites that allow this instead.

If you do intend to make useful contributions here about some other topic, you must convince a Wikipedia administrator that you mean it. To that end, please do the following:

Add the text {{unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason here}} on your user talk page.
Replace the text "Your proposed new username" with a new username you are willing to use. See Special:Listusers to search for available usernames. Your new username will need to meet our username policy.
Replace the text "Your reason here" with your reason to be unblocked. In this reason, you must:
- Convince us that you understand the reason for your block and that you will not repeat the edits for which you were blocked.
- Describe in general terms the contributions that you intend to make if you are unblocked.

If you believe this block was made in error, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

--Orange Mike | Talk 18:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok this is silly, I only wanted to add an article about Drifting Sun because they are a band which makes music and releases it to the public.

That, in my opinion (but obviously not the opinion of the Wikipedia admins who deemed the article unsuitable), justifies an insertion in your encyclopedia.

Yes, it is an article about my own band, and yes it was submitted by me.

Does writing an article about my own band make it less real? We still bring an active participation to the current music scene as artists; to what degree does it matter who wrote what, as long as it is based on real facts about the band, which my article was?

if you take, or took, the time to check the links I included of album reviews etc to support my submission, you will see, or would have seen, that these were truly independent and unbiased contributions which did support the submission I made...

What difference would it have made if I'd asked my friend Michael or my aunt Betty to submit the article on my behalf? It would still relate to content about the same music band which still does what it does: making music and releasing it to the public.

And yes again, I made the mistake of linking the page to the band's official website (what band does not have an official website where they talk about themselves?) Obviously, any info about a band mentioned in any site will somehow match the info about the said band in any other site... we are playing on words here, and again, the info mentioned in the official website tells the story of the band, which in my book is real information and not the fantasy of some twisted individuals making up facts about themselves, since it is the recount of how a band started and what they have done so far, nothing more.

I removed the official website's link so as to comply with your rules, after it was brought to my attention that that was the main sticking point, or rather: after you made me believe that that was the reason why you were keeping my submission on hold). I offered to modify the content so that it didn't match that of the website mentioned above (or in other words, I offered to rewrite the same information using different words, so you wouldn't think I was trying to plagiarize... myself). I can't honestly see what more I could have done to show that I was genuinely trying to add an insertion based on facts and not fiction... how many different ways are there to talk about the story of a band, how the project was created, what albums they have released and on what label they are signed, what their plans are etc?

Those were genuine newbie mistakes, and forgive me for making those mistakes, as I am a musician not a journalist or a writer. You guys could have given me the chance to rectify those honest mistakes instead of taking the entire article out and banning my username, which has now resulted in me being back to square one, and judging by the response I received from the moderator who took town the article, square one is where I now am most likely to remain for all times due to my fatal error.

The point I am making here, if anyone cares to give it some thought (as I have given it a lot of thought myself since I started this whole creation process and spent so many weeks struggling to meet your requirements and battling with the contributors to try and justify the worthiness of my article) is that we, as new (and obviously inexperienced) people attempting to include genuine information about topics which relate to the public domain inasmuch as the said topics are about facts on people, organizations or whatever else - a musical band, in this instance - are faced with an extremely discouraging wall of criticism when trying to contribute to the encyclopedia, and not really given much chance to fight for our cause.

I am not going to make another attempt to write a different article about Drifting Sun via a different username (as one of your contributors suggested I should try and do) because I find the very idea sneaky, if I'm totally honest. However, I am still eager and willing to be given the opportunity to modify the original article I attempted to post, so long as the sources I provide (I am not referring to Drifting Sun's official website link here of course, but to the links from independent magazines which have posted genuine and impartial reviews of Drifting Sun's records, more to come as the band's new album is out in a couple of weeks and it will generate plenty more exposure from the media in the next few months) are actually being genuinely verified by your moderators in an impartial way also. If you decide that Drifting Sun should be given that opportunity to be included in Wikipedia, then we can work something out on that basis; otherwise if your decision is final then it will be a shame but I will respect that decision and accept that Wikipedia does not see Drifting Sun as the real active band they are, thanks.

Best regards

Pat

DriftingSunWeb (talk) 11:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Pat. I've just seen your note on my talk page and was stopping by to talk to you, but I see things have changed a bit since you wrote.

There are a couple of issues here that might do with additional explanation.

First, Wikipedia is a pretty popular website, as you know, and unfortunately this means that a lot of people try to use it for promotion. Since our goal is to be a source of neutral information based on reliable sources about notable entities, our community tends to watch out for this pretty diligently. It is because of this tendency of external entitites to want to use Wikipedia for promotion that we have certain policies about editing articles related to you or your business.

Backing up a bit, though, a key word in our goal is "notable" - a long time before I got here, seven years ago (roughly), the community decided that Wikipedia couldn't cover everything. They came up with the concept of notability to help determine what content we should have - where notability is generally defined as broad and deep coverage in unconnected, reliable sources. Basically, if reliable sources think a subject is worth writing about, Wikipedia does, too. There are subject specific guidelines as well, developed later, such as Wikipedia:Music, that can help determine when a subject is ready for inclusion here. These guidelines do, obviously, tend to prioritize trendy and popular topics. Less covered genres of music may get short shrift. I myself have enjoyed working on articles related to the old jazz classics. Occasionally I encounter an album I know is important, but I can't find sources to verify that it is notable, so I can't include it here. It's frustrating, but it's the best system we've come up with for trying to keep content in Wikipedia generally relevant, encyclopedic, as opposed to individualized and specialized.

We consider newspapers, magazines, books by major publishers, and established industry websites reliable sources. User-generated content (like Wikipedia) or fan pages are not reliable. For most things, commercial sites are not reliable. WP:IRS can help establish some of the things we look for.

Linking to your band's official website is not a problem. Copying content from your band's official website (or from any other source) is. Basically, the US copyright law that governs Wikipedia reserves the right to that content to the creators, and because we do not have any way to verify your identity on registration, we do have to ask people to verify license through external means. This can be done through sending an email proving you own copyright and licensing it appropriate or by putting a note on your website licensing the content. (See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. In the absence of verification of license, we have no choice but to delete the content, even if you tell us that it is yours and that it's okay for us to use it. Since this is a legal matter, we have to comply with the formalities. :)

That doesn't address the conflict issue, though. Basically, we prefer that your aunts and uncles and friends not write about your band, either. Ideally, an article about your band will be written by somebody who has no connection with it at all. (See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest). However, submitting drafts in the way that you did and being transparent about your connection is a good faith approach. It's not an easy one, but it's good faith. If you do create another account, in your own name (or any colorful, personal username that appeals to you), I would request that you do keep that good faith transparency. If you go through the draft process, either licensing the material on your website or putting the content in new language, the reviewer can determine if the material accords with our policies and guidelines.

I'm not sure that the list of links you provided will quite fit the bill, however. It's not a question of whether the band is real, but whether it is "notable" as Wikipedia defines notability. And, again, I have had to refrain from creating articles about a number of albums I believe to be important (even though I am experienced here and a volunteer administrator) because I can't verify it. If your new album generates more media exposure, then it may provide the kind of sources we need, although with non-mainstream music this can remain a bit of a challenge.

Here are the links you provided:

I would recommend evaluating these against the reliable sources guideline and determining if your band meets WP:MUSIC or, alternatively, the general notability guideline - if there is broad, deep coverage about it in the kinds of sources we are permitted to use. If not, your best bet is to wait until it does. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 16:25, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]