User talk:Docktuh

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Docktuh! Thank you for your contributions. I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Anarcho-syndicalism vs Communism

I posted this to OnceASpy's talk page but he removed it and some other text that gave context: "{{re:Docktuh}} and anarcho-syndicalism clearly isn't a Communist political ideology, calling him a communist when the two philosophies are at odds shows that you don't know what communism is. Just stop calling people communists. OnceASpy, I've restored the comment I made yesterday, you were asked to restore it but didn't. It shows why Doctuh posted here, shortly after I pinged him. Doug Weller talk 06:11, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As my post saying that isn't there any longer, you might want to point out the difference to him. I'm guessing that he thinks you admitted to being a communist. Doug Weller talk 11:19, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, they're not at odds per se, but they are different ideas. In the name of education I'll speak to him on it. Docktuh (talk) 15:18, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchism

Hi Docktuh,

I saw your work on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to watch our noticeboard for Wikipedia's coverage of anarchism, which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!

And if you're looking for other juicy places to edit, consider expanding a stub, adopting a cleanup category, or participating in one of our current formal discussions.

Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. czar 00:22, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

re anti fascist

You added anti fascist categories for Bela Lugosi and Aline Bernstein, but these're not supported in the article text -- that is, there's no material, and so no refs, indicated that they were particularly involved in anti fascist activity. Naturally, most people are against fascism, so in that sense we could ad an anti fascist category to most biographies. But I think we ought to do this only for people who were especially active in this area, by writings or other activity. Lugosi and Bernstein might well have been, but there's nothing in the article now to that effect, and I think there ought to be to show that the categorization is appropriate. Cheers, Herostratus (talk) 03:37, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish anti-communists has been nominated for discussion

Category:Jewish anti-communists, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. - Mr X 🖋 01:28, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish fascists has been nominated for discussion

Category:Jewish fascists, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. - Mr X 🖋 01:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive editing

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

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Invitation to WikiProject Socialism

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James Mason (neo-Nazi)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on James Mason (neo-Nazi); that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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August 2019

Hello, I'm Bledwith. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Hellenic Socialist Patriotic Organisation have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the help desk. Thanks. Bledwith (talk) 13:19, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. As I pointed out in my reversion, I really don't see a reason to undo any of that. Besides other Nazis referring to themselves and people who were writing about Nazism during World War 2, people don't generally call Nazism by it's full ideological name. Even we don't call it that, the category for Nazi parties is "Nazi parties" not "National Socialist parties". A bit pedantic perhaps, but all the same, it avoids confusion. Especially since, as we know from the history of the subject here on Wikipedia, people like to claim the Nazis as left-wing or as socialists, when the academic consensus is the opposite. Docktuh (talk) 03:25, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Politicians in the Ku Klux Klan

Greetings. I would like to notify you that I have tagged that category for deletion as it contains no articles; if it remains empty for a week, it will meet Wikipedia:C1. If you know of any politicians that are also members of the KKK, please populate the category with them. Glades12 (talk) 08:50, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, please go ahead and delete it. I made the category without noticing that there was already an article with a listing of it, so the category is superfluous. Docktuh (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

April 2020

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. JamesHSmith6789 (talk) 21:57, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Hi, Docktuh, I notice you are particularly active in the "infobox" and "categories" part of the editing of articles about politics. Regarding the former (par excellence, as it seems, adding -isms) you need to be aware that you need to use sources (arguably quality ones) also underpinning a sense of due weight. The best way to convey the latter is citing one or more secondary authoritative scholarly source(s) thoroughly dealing with the issue, while at the same time offering the precious short labels. It's also worth noting that adding labels Ad infinitum to any infobox does not make the latter necessarily better. And the content needs to be primarily developed and (of course) also sourced in the body of the article (in combination with the infobox sourcing or even preferently just in the body of the article). Conversely if your edit is undone, you could go to the talk page to find a consensus. The latter part (the imperative to sourcing the content inline in the body of the article) also applies to the categories. Regards.--Asqueladd (talk) 20:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again, Docktuh. Editing without quality sources is... problematic. The article you linked with this edit is unfocused, and it is not even clear what it is talking about (I'd say your edit is flat out wrong If I were actually 100% sure what the linked article is about). I've undone your edit and I've added another target as commentary afterwards; I invite you to open a talk page talk to decide if that target has a place in that infobox, given the effective subordination of that organization to the military (rather than to the party structure).--Asqueladd (talk) 19:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy. So, with regards to the edit in question, I added it because the Blueshirts (later known as the Falange Militia) were the armed wing of the Falangists prior to the FET y de las JONS coming to power in Spain. When Franco won the civil war, the Blueshirts were renamed the Falange Militia. This is all in that group's page, and there's no in-article evidence on either the Falange Militia or the FET y de las JONS that suggests the former dissolved prior to the transition to democracy.Docktuh (talk) 19:54, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But the issue is that that's not even the case. Camisas azules was just a nickname for grassroots falangists because (since 1935, IIRC) they adopted blue shirts as uniforms (before they used to dress in suit and ties as foppish boys). But (if any) the "militia" of FE de las JONS was the "Primera Línea" or the "Falange de Sangre" . I don't know what "Falange Militia" is (well, I can bet: it might be a common noun plus an adjective someone has turned into a proper noun above their possibilities). And no, the end of the Civil War (1939) has nothing to do. Already since the 1937 Unification Decree, there is a explicit mention to the "Milicia Nacional" as merger or requetés and falangists. Don't take everything you read in Wikipedia for gospel.--Asqueladd (talk) 20:36, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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National Socialist

You say that "The term "National Socialist" is, to the confession of even the Nazis, misleading. Outside of quotes and (in some cases) nomenclature, no one ever calls it that.)" But clearly this google book search shows that you are incorrect: ^[1] Google Scholar contradicts that statement too. ^[2] Hardyplants (talk) 11:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair, the term is used in some scholarly sources. However, generally speaking the term isn't used. Even Wikipedia articles don't say things like "National Socialist German Worker's Party" or "National Socialism and Occultism", it's just "Nazi Party" or "Nazism and Occultism". Regarding it being misleading see this article^[3] as well as the Talk page for the Nazi Party. The use of the term is largely unnecessary, outside of quotations about Nazism (especially from the time period in which the party existed) and in Neo-Nazi organizations, like the National Socialist Movement. As even the article for Nazism points out, the Nazis sought to redefine the word socialist, and their economic program hardly if at all resembles anything socialist (such as the respect for and protection of private property). Docktuh (talk) 11:44, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not used in "some" as you say - the even more specific term "national socialist Germany" has about 928,000 results. Hardyplants (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure I follow you private property argument - maybe it will make more sense after I get some sleep - But see: "Socialist economists are critical of private property as socialism aims to substitute private property in the means of production for social ownership or public property. … In Marxian economics and socialist politics, there is distinction between "private property" and "personal property"."^[4] Hardyplants (talk) 11:59, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That was my point. Socialism is anti-private property, the Nazis very specifically defended it. Docktuh (talk) 11:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, thanks for fixing my articles, I just translated from foreign Wikipedias and for some reason they do use the term "National Socialism" rather than Nazism, and I forgot to fix some of it.RKT7789 (talk) 05:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American white supremacist politicians has been nominated for deletion

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June 2021

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November 2021

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National Syndicalism

As per WP:BRD we should continue this discussion on the talk page. Alssa1 (talk) 17:20, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ray Alexander Simons

Hello. I think you chose the wrong category. I don't think the category was right cause i didn't find any sentence which explains that Simon was a member of ICU in the article. Maybe, you can add the explanation first, before you add the category. I redo your edit cause i just find one book about ICU involvement in this link which just tell us that James Schuba is the member. Thank you.Agus Damanik (talk) 23:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Socialism in National Socialism

Greetings, Docktuh. It seems you're on a sort of mission to extract the term "socialism" from national socialism." And you're offering a fact as justification. Because it is a fact that some opponents of socialism (and I'm not suggesting I'm a socialist, at all) have attempted to denote National Socialism as akin to the leftist ideology, in general, given that socialists are, by definition, leftists. Though, this may be indeed a fact, it is also a fact that the term "National Socialism" is the one used originally by Hitler's party and followers of the Nazi ideology. (The term "Nazi" is provenly a term used almost exclusively by non-Nazis.) But here's the thing: There is, in any case, a plethora of references to both "Nazism" and "National Socialism" in reliable sources. This means that the WP:COMMONNAME policy is inoperable: Both terms are interchangeable and we should be using each one according to context each time. For instance, "nazism" is not found in the relevant texts as much as "nat'l socialism" when denoting the appropriate brand of ideology of Italian extreme-right parties, organizations, or groups. You can check the sources. So, I respectfully suggest you hold back from your mass interventions and dedicate research time in each and every instance for the appropriate term. The attempts at distorting the nomenclature on "socialism" won't go away in any case. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 08:19, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@The Gnome I change the term only when appropriate. For example, in organizational names (besides the party itself), quotes, and reference names, I leave well enough alone. I also tend to leave it be if context demands the use of an "-ist" suffix to describe ideology. Of course trying to purge each and every instance of the term is not only POV, but a waste of time. I do what I do chiefly because the average person doesn't call it National Socialism (though also because, as we both seem to be aware, the term is deliberately misleading) and I'd wage the majority of academic sources don't call it that either. Docktuh (talk) 09:52, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response. Well, personal experience varies, by definition. How people mostly call it does not carry much water in Wikipedia, unless the preference of "the people" is reflected in written, reliable sources. As to the issue of people deliberately misleading others by presenting nat'l socialism as a leftist ideology, that does not count in editors' criteria at all. Our duty is to simply present what sources say. The majority of academic sources studying extreme-right politics, as I wrote above, use the two terms interchangeably according to the issue at hand. Again, the example in the Italian neo-fascist militant groups during the years of lead: some adopted national socialist ideology and for them most academic research referred to their ideology as such. Neither the groups themselves nor research used "nazism" to identify their credo, to any significant extent; but many political adversaries did in their texts. Wikipedia chooses academic research or objective journalism over political tracts any day. This is important to understand. -The Gnome (talk) 10:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You misunderstand me when I speak about it being misleading. As it's been pointed out by scholars, critics, and to an extent even the Nazis themselves, the name "National Socialism" was an opportunistic one, rather than describing anything resembling socialism. Of course I obviously don't care for the odd historical revisionism that goes on by the people who no doubt spam the talk page of the Nazi Party howling about how "Socialism is in the name!!", but that's a problem unto itself. Nevertheless, if the terms are interchangeable and I leave well enough alone on titles, sources, and quotes, I see this whole thing as a non-issue. Docktuh (talk) 00:39, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "National Socialist - Google Search". www.google.com. Retrieved 2020-12-22.
^ "Google Scholar". scholar.google.com. Retrieved 2020-12-22.
^ "No, the Nazis Were Not Socialists". www.jacobinmag.com.
^ "Private property", Wikipedia, 2020-12-19, retrieved 2020-12-22

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Warning

You've been here long enough to know that referring to other users' constructive edits as "vandalism" is a no-no [1]. This is ESPECIALLY true when this edit - that you called "vandalism" - involves sourced information, while the text you are restoring involves unsourced information. Don't do this again. Volunteer Marek 02:01, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2022

Please stop adding unreferenced or poorly referenced biographical content, especially if controversial, to articles or any other Wikipedia page, as you did at Kanye West. Content of this nature could be regarded as defamatory and is in violation of Wikipedia policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Our verifiability policy applies to categories as well. In short, categories have to be substantiated by the article body, where information has to be reliably sourced. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 22:57, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

From your talk page history it appears there have been many issues with your use of categories in the past. WP:BLPCAT and WP:CATDEF apply.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:01, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the case of Kanye West, it is sourced and cited in the body that he is a Neo-Nazi. He is also a politician. He is also a Christian. I therefore added "Neo-Nazi politicans" and "Christian fascists" as categories, because both of those things are apparent and cited. Docktuh (talk) 00:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish fascists has been nominated for splitting

Category:Jewish fascists has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 03:06, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Eurasianism

On the other hand, Eurasianism itself could be considered an ideology in its own right. I know it's not common but I recommend watching this video where they explain it in detail: https:/ youtu. be/5Z98moTOa7Y (I'm sending it here and distorted since the talk page apparently doesn't allow sending links to YouTube) Alfredo18elguapo (talk) 18:03, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Alfredo18elguapo This is not about Eurasianism specifically its about a party which happens to have Eurasianism as part of its platform. Even then it wouldn't change the party's far-right, neo-fascist platform. Please keep this on one talk page, it helps no one to do this. Docktuh (talk) 20:15, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Donald Trump mis-categorizing

[| You categorized] the Donald Trump article as far-right politician. I suggest you read the consensus list if you plan to do further editing. Your edit [| was reverted] because item #59 of the consensus applies. SmileyTrek (talk) 03:07, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] "National Socialist - Google Search". www.google.com. Retrieved 2020-12-22.

[2] "Google Scholar". scholar.google.com. Retrieved 2020-12-22.

[3] "No, the Nazis Were Not Socialists". www.jacobinmag.com.

[4] "Private property", Wikipedia, 2020-12-19, retrieved 2020-12-22

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