User talk:ChuChu

Onegai Teacher

You keep adding Onegai to the seinen list on the basis that they are seinen, however both were serialized in shounen magazines. Don't mix fandom into this. Seinen/shonen/shojo has all to do with target group and nothing to do with genres. Explain exactly why you think Onegai are seinen titles? I think you misunderstood something (otherwise your edits are vandalism). (I hope you check this and either reply on the seinen page or here). == Thank you for clearing up what I misunderstood and the very useful link. I fixed the error. 80.198.55.105 17:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

El Cazador

Hello, from what I gather, you know something on that topic. Have you also read the latest Newtype article? I may be jumping to conclusions but you seem to understand Japanese, so I was wondering if you could translate that for the sake of El Cazador article? ^^; --Koveras ^☭ 20:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

El Cazador respond

Hmm, my source about the El Cazador manga was from this MoonPhase's diary post; mentioned that it will be a comic adaption (comic-ization) of the bishoujo action anime El Cazador.

Its starting serialization in May's issue of Champion RED magazine.

As to translating that newtype article, sorry, maybe someone else will voluntere to translate it, hopefully someone with much better japanese than mine. --ChuChu

Oh, OK, I'm sorry to have bothered you. %) --Koveras ^☭ 21:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Light novels

Never use the terms shonen or shojo. They simply don't match the target audience -- the age group that reads light novels is older than shonen and shojo, but younger than seinen and josei. Occasionally the term well end up being used for the manga adaption of the light novel, but in the case of Missing, the manga runs in Dengeki HQ, which is an otaku magazine and doesn't use either label. I think what we're seeing here is an overextension of the terms in the English speaking fanbase, which general seems to view the terms as far more important than the Japanese audience. Doceirias 22:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Light novels and target readership

Most light novels are aimed at teenagers, some are aimed at shounen and some are aimed at shoujo. but that doesn't mean that there aren't light novels that are aimed at young men and young women. there's for example the GA Bunko label which is aimed at males between the ages of 10 to 20+ according to the publisher. but still any light novel published under the GA Bunko is considered a shounen light novel (thats how things are), and the same with Dengeki Bunko label.

You mean Dengeki HP, right? yeah thats a magazine aimed at the otaku, the male otaku of course, every light novel serialized in that magazine is published under the shounen label Dengeki Bunko.

The new label HJ Bunko aims at teenagers to 30+, but still its a male oriented label and every light novel from it is considered a shounen light novel (don't ask why, thats how things are).

Male oriented light novels that aime at teenagers and above (even including young men) are always classified as for shounen light novels.

Female oriented light novels that aime at teenagers and above (even including young women) are always classified as for shoujo light novels.

Light novels are always classified as the following:

For males:

Shounen light novels

Adult light novels

For females:

Shoujo light novels

BL light novels

For material read the following:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ライトノベル

Of course the light novel labels for boys that are mentioned in the wiki are not all the labels for boys, there are more.

Important Links were here...

Links have been removed :P

I'll be deleting the above links in a day or so (I use the above links for my work :P)

Someone (on some blog) mentioned that over 2/3 of female oriented light novels are BL, thats not totally wrong check the female oriented light novels each month and you'll see that thats how things are.

There are also new light novel labels from Shogakukan that are starting soon:

Gagaga Bunko, a label of light novels for boys

Lululu Bunko, a label of light novels for girls

ChuChu 10:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you Japanese then? I translate light novels for a living, so I tend to assume I know more than most people, but I certainly don't know everything. I've never seen the words used with light novels the way they are used with manga, even in the Kono Light Novel wa Sugoi! guidebooks.

The links you provided above do use the words shonen and shojo, but I'm not convinced they use them in the same manner -- from that usage, it could be simply being used to distinguish between male and female oriented lines, without the age factor at all.

I admit that I think shonen and shojo are classifications rather than genres, and shouldn't be in the infoboxes under genres, doubly so when they clearly are stretching the normal definitions of the terms. This might be coloring my opinion a little, but ultimately all I can say is that in my experience, these terms are almost never applied to light novels. If you're a native Japanese speaker and have more experience with this than me, I'll obviously give way to your superior knowledge, but if you're in the same position as me (trying to make an educated guess from outside the culture) then I think it might be worth asking for a third opinion from some native speakers.

You've obviously put a lot of work into adding the shonen and shojo labels onto many, many pages, and it's not my intention to undermine that in any way -- I just want to make sure the terms are actually accurate. Like I said, they felt wrong to me, but that's not a guarantee of anything. Doceirias 10:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

There's no need to live in japan or to be a native japanese speaker to know what are male oriented manga/light novels and what are female oriented manga/light novels. most light novel labels are targeted towards a certain readership just like manga is.

"The links you provided above do use the words shonen and shojo, but I'm not convinced they use them in the same manner -- from that usage, it could be simply being used to distinguish between male and female oriented lines, without the age factor at all."

Yeah exactly, these classifications are used to distinguish between male and female oriented labels, shounen for males and shoujo for females. most of these labels aime at teenagers and above thats why the classifications shounen and shoujo are used. for example: GA Bunko for males 10-20+ and HJ Bunko for males 10-30+.

Shounen and shoujo are terms that are applied to light novels just like they are applied with manga, just because you don't hear the words shounen or shoujo associated with light novels doesn't mean they aren't shounen or shoujo light novels, for example the new light novel label for boys Gagaga Bunko is mentioned by the publisher as "for shounen" here: http://gagaga-lululu.jp/gagaga/about.html and the new light novel label for girls Lululu Bunko is mentioned by the publisher as "for shoujo" here: http://gagaga-lululu.jp/lululu/lululu_bunko.html

I only add shounen/seinen, I have little to no interest in shoujo/josei manga/light novels, I'll make sure no one adds shoujo/josei to any male oriented manga/light novel.ChuChu 13:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this is my point. These labels are used in a very different sense than the are with manga. I'm going to post this for discussion on the anime and manga project. We should be sure. Doceirias 20:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

ChuChu, I feel that one shouldn't ignore helping just because one doesn't have interest in it. If you know which series are shoujo/josei also, please don't let people state them as shounen/seinen just because it's not the demographic you are interested in. For Doceirias, please refer to WP:CIVIL. If the comment does not discuss a question, answer, or statement that has been given, please do not post it. This comment appears to be an attack, rather than a serious question. I wish though that you could speak more about belief you have that shounen and shoujo are used differently in light novels, as it does seem a bit hard to believe.

Dengeki Bunko

I have no idea why you want the article the be less accurate. Dengeki Bunko has a strong female readership, and frequently attempts to increase female readership - look at the shojo manga for Ballad of a Shinigami. What about "a primarily male readership" did not work as a compromise? Certainly, Dengeki started out as a male oriented label, but they also started out doing mostly video game spin-off novels. They've come a long way since then. I just don't understand what is driving you to make these edits; if you had a user page so that I knew something about who I'm debating, it would be a lot easier. Doceirias 18:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah they have come a long way, but the label be it a shounen label has not changed.

Cobalt Bunko also has a strong male readership, but its not a male oriented label, nor does it become less female oriented just because there are males reading light novels from this label. Cobalt Bunko has a strong male readership but still its a female oriented label.

A label that started as a label for boys, does not bocome less for boys, just because there are females reading light novels from that label. the same with magazines like Shounen Jump, it does not become a shoujo magazine or a less shounen magazine just because there are females reading it.

Making a shoujo manga based on a light novels for boys does not make the light novel less for males just because there's a shoujo manga adaptation of the light novel. There are shoujo manga adapatations of male oriented light novels to try to attract female readers, but these labels in which these light novels are published under does not become general labels just becuase there's a shoujo manga adaptation of these light novels. ChuChu

I entirely agree, but none of the changes I made in any way contradicted this.

"Dengeki bunko has a primarily male readership" is an entirely accurate statement that better reflects the reality of the readership than what the article currently says - without in any way deny that it is a (mostly) male oriented label. (I also don't think adding mostly in any way denies the basic facts, but just allows for the fact that they do sometimes court a female readership as well.) Doceirias 19:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

There are still differences between those two statements. One statement is about the target readership and the other is about the readership. does "primarily male readership" mean its aimed at males? Prince of Tennis manga has a "primarily female readership" should I conclude from that that Prince of Tennis is a shoujo manga? "primarily male readership" does not mean its aimed at males.

This is not a mostly male oriented label. females reading light novels from the Dengeki Bunko label, does not make it a less male oriented. just like males reading light novels from Cobalt Bunko label won't make the label: mostly female oriented label. ChuChu

So why is target readership more important than actual readership? Doceirias 20:23, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

There's no difference of importance between the two. If you as a publisher have started a label for boys, you should be sure that what you are targeting does appeal to boys.

But there's still differences between who you are targeting, and who is actually reading. so if you take for example the "Prince of Tennis" manga, it does have a mostly female readership, but still its a shounen manga. There's a difference between who's reading and who's the actual target readership. ChuChu

Everything you say makes perfect sense, but still doesn't explain why you'd prefer the article to say that Dengeki Bunko is a label aimed at a male audience instead of a label with a primarily male readership. The latter statement acknowledges the female readers without denying the primary focus of the label, which, to me, makes it more accurate. Doceirias 20:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Acknowledging the female readership is good but not mentioning the target readership is not. not saying its a male oriented label will allow some people to disagree on many light novels from this label being male oriented. the excuses like it has romance in it so it can't be for males or the illustrations are so cute so it can't be a light novel for males or it has a female protagonist so it can't be for males or its written by a female light novel writer so it can't be for males, or the infinite number of excuses that will be used to deny that any certain light novel from this label to be male oriented.

Not mentioning the label's target readership just not to deny there's a female readership, that doesn't make sense to me. Should I start an entry for the Cobalt Bunko label and call it "light novel label with primarly female readership" while in fact it is targeted at females, so why should I say its "primarly female readership", just to satisfy the male readers of this label?

"light novel label aimed at males with a primarily male readership" is the best statement that I can agree with. ChuChu

Nah, that would just be redundant.

I see where you're coming from, now - certainly, there are lots of people out there who love to call Love Hina shojo.

We could probably handle all of these arguments but just pointing out that these people are wrong, though.

And the terms shonen, seinen, shojo, and josei aren't used with light novels, as I already pointed out.

Still, it isn't like the article is wrong, and I gave up caring one way or the other several indents ago - was just trying to understand. I finally do, so yay us. We proved it is still possible to communicate. Doceirias 21:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ultra Jump

I've been wondering as to why you edit my specific entry. The second I showed my statement that Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto isn't seinen, you edited it. But if you look at a few of their manga's respective articles, you see that Shounen has appeared a few times, yet no edit to those. Please don't just edit only mine if you are going to say it's a seinen magazine, or else it seems like a personal attack. While I've been told that the anime itself is closest to shoujo, that if anything the series is shounen for it's lack of realism and seriousness. Even the anime's title uses furigana; why would they do this for a seinen anime? I've heard time after time after time that furigana being used is a sign that it is for children. So why does this no longer have any effect? You state that it's a seinen magazine, but there are articles of other series in this magazine that state it is shounen, so why is it that you can't be mistaken, and that it is truly a shounen magazine? You can't have it both ways. Either it sticks to 1 demographic (which means since Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto uses furigana (and thus isn't seinen by statement I mentioned above) one comes to the assumption that Ultra Jump is not a seinen magazine), or it has more than 1 demographic, which then you can't state something is seinen because it is in what you consider a seinen magazine. --AjaaniSherisu 05:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are taliking about o.O Ultra Jump has more than 1 demographic? what are you basing that on? your own opinion?

According to the publisher, Ultra Jump is a Men's Comic Magazine, and according to many japanese sites including the publisher's site, Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto is a seinen manga. ChuChu

I'm not stating that Ultra Jump has more than 1 demographic, but you are stating that the magazine is seinen, even though it has shounen manga in it (please don't state Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto "Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto" is seinen, as it uses furigana, which is to help people who don't know the kanji. 18-30 year olds (the age seinen is for) should know by now the kanji for magic, girl, and cat). This proves it is not seinen, but rather for an age which needs help knowing what the kanji means. Seinen is more of a realistic, more serious subject type series. Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto, which features magical cat girls does not fit this description. I also searched the page you said stated it was seinen, and I couldn't find it at all in the seinen list. I went through the list about 10 times, and still couldn't find it. And yes, I checked the part that said seinen to make sure I was looking at the right list. Please can you state these other sites that state it's seinen? --AjaaniSherisu 11:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but are you japanese impaired? can you even read japanese? do I have to hand feed you the data myself?

ok lets go to the Shueisha's site for manga magazines and manga tankoubon: http://www.s-manga.net/mens/ in this link you'll find links to Shueisha's manga magazines, and on the site you'll also find a link thats titled Seinen Comics where all the seinen manga that has been published by Shueisha can be found. its this link: http://www.s-manga.net/mens/comics.html on this site you can go navigate back and forward in time (two links are provided: <-- a link to navigate ahead --> a link to go back) to see what seinen manga has been published. lets look for the last volume of Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto which was published on 18/7/2003 so you'll have to navigate back till you reach 18/7/2003, and you'll find the last volume (volume 3) there, yes its a seinen manga. ChuChu

I am half Japanese, so I am trying to learn as much as I can. While I can't ask my family to teach me due to them being busy, I have learned a bit by teaching myself and getting help through a teacher. I see you yourself are also not 100% knowledgeable in Japanese, so please don't talk in such a condescending way. Just because I didn't choose your way of finding out, doesn't mean I don't know the language. I just chose to look at the list of the seinen manga by clicking on the link for and looking at all the links to their pages. Now that I did it your way, it does state that it is seinen. But now I wonder what 18-30 year olds wouldn't know the kanji for magic, girl and cat, that they would need furigana to help them. If you have seen the title of Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto, you do have to admit it does use furigana. Why would a college age boy need help with such kanji? Also why do people spout on and on about how to tell a seinen from a shounen is if it uses hiragana above/to the side of the kanji (furigana)? Since it says that Mahou Shoujo Neko Taruto is seinen, then is the whole "furigana is a hint towards if it is seinen or not" thing a lie? Or the belief that seinen has more depth and seriousness than shoujo or shounen? Or is the seinen demographic at a younger age group than we think? --AjaaniSherisu 04:58, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Please check out WP:CIVIL. If your comments are not helpful to the discussion nor part of the discussion then please refrain from posting them. This appears to be an attack.

Furigana is usually used with manga for boys and girls (shounen and shoujo manga), but in the end its the publisher's decision to decide what titles to add furigana in them (even if its a seinen manga). furigana is just a hint, its not always correct. if you look you'll find seinen manga that have furigana in them.

Seinen manga is defined by japanese publishers as manga serialized in seinen anthologies. seinen manga is very diverce, it can be serious, it can be very silly. seinen manga is very diverce in stories and art style. what defines a seinen manga is only the publisher, and thats by publishing it in a seinen manga anthology.

This is also mentioned in the wiki entry for seinen manga: "Sometimes it is classified as shōjo or shōnen" I have no idea where they came up with that, but manga thats published in japan and the publisher is aiming it at young men (seinen) is never classified as shoujo nor shounen. seinen manga is seinen manga, not shoujo manga nor shounen manga. ChuChu

But does that mean that shounen and shoujo don't necessarily need furigana as long as it's contains no kanji that the reader of that age wouldn't know? I guess my grasp is to find out what makes seinen what it is; as a lot of the manga and anime I've seen called as seinen don't seem to shout for boys. If seinen was for both genders (although then it would be confusing because there is josei) then it would make more sense. A lot of people state Yotsubato! is a seinen because it is in Dengeki Daioh, but confuses me a lot as that would imply it was aimed at boys, which I don't understand why. I've been told it's about nostalgia, which I guess could appeal to older people but not mainly to boys. I never understood how a 4 year old girl's way of life is aimed at boys, rather than at both genders. It's realistic, but not serious, things that both genders can enjoy. Maybe if someone could further explain what constitutes as a seinen (such as mecha is usually seen in shounen anime and manga) then I could grasp the reason as to why a lot of anime and manga I hear about being called seinen. --AjaaniSherisu 09:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Seinen means Young Man. with that the publisher tries to publish different manga that appeals to different young men, there's nothing that constitutes as seinen manga. seinen manga as I said before is very diverce.

Dengeki Daioh is the type of magazine that aims at the male otaku reader. with that type of reader as the target readership you'll certailnly find that type of manga serialized in that magazine and aimed at that readership. ChuChu

I know what seinen means, but what I was asking is what are the rules that say "this is not josei, but rather seinen"? Stating that it is for boys alone states that when creating the manga or anime that they did it with boys in mind. What I'm asking is, what is in seinen manga and anime that you could consider saying "yea, that would most likely be for boys". Kind of like how fighting anime are usually shounen, seeing as how beating people up tends to be more of a guy thing. While seinen may be diverse, it isn't aimed at girls. So what I'm asking is what is it about Yotsubato! that would make the creator say "this is for boys"? I can see the age group that seinen says (as people have stated it can be seen as nostalgia), but not specifically for boys. Would it be ok if you mentioned some of the criteria that seperate seinen from josei? --AjaaniSherisu 13:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The difference between a seinen manga and a josei manga is: if the publisher says its a seinen manga then its a seinen manga, if the publisher says its a josei manga then its a josei manga. thats the difference.

If you are going to analyze how seinen manga should be like then unfortunatelly you won't be able to find that. there are just so many seinen manga being published every month by many many many japanese publishers, you won't find a common trait with all these manga. ChuChu

That is not valid. The creator of any anime/manga would never call a series a demographic that would not fit the demographic it was aimed for. While seinen and josei are diverse, they can't really be called that without the creator actually making the series appeal to them more. If I created a series about a cyborg who is getting revenge on the person who tried to kill them and made them a cyborg, would me calling it shoujo really attract the gender that it would appeal to more? No. Therefore no creator would ever just call something seinen without it actually being created with young men in mind. I'm a girl and I like some action anime, but that doesn't mean action is more focused for girls than it is for boys, nor does it make action anime shoujo on the basis alone. So while seinen and josei are diverse, the same principles that make shounen shounen and shoujo shoujo make seinen seinen and josei josei. --AjaaniSherisu 03:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me for jumping into the conversation while starting my own argument, but ChuChu is definitely right here. Ultra Jump is clearly a seinen magazine, and manga that run in it are therefore seinen. Pretty cut and dry. The terms do not define any genre or categorization other than target audience, and each of them can represent a broad range of styles and subjects. Doceirias 18:48, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for buting in..... but have you guys ever even read Ultra Jump? The person above me is exactly right. I do not think any time soon some parent will let their kid read it. If you think that Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto is for kids, then you can start thinking that Koukoku no Shogosha and NEEDLESS are for kids too. Jump Guru (talk) 19:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Baccano demographic

See the project page for related discussion. I'm not trying to destroy the work you've been doing; I just think you've been applying the terms too broadly. Doceirias 18:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

WAIT

You and User:Laughlikecrazy42 have been engaged in an edit war and are both violating the Three revert rule. Please stop editing either W Wish or Final Approach (visual novel) and try to resolve your dispute by going to WP:RFC or WP:AC, thank you.--十八 19:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

What exactly do you want me to do? have you ever seen such a discussion as this? putting the target demographic of two bishoujo games to be shoujo. ChuChu

That's not the point. I am this close to reporting both of you at WP:RRR, but since I've workded with both of you and know you two are good faith editors, I am warning you both now, so please stop it.--十八 19:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Lucky Star (manga)

You didn't break the three revert rule on that article; the history says you reverted the demographic only twice. Either way, there's no way to lock out that kind of edit without adding a semi-protection to the article, but I don't think this kind of dispute calls for that since it's not vandalism, just different views on what the audience for a particular series is. I agree that it is a seinen series, and generally now frown upon excuses like "it was serialized in a seinen magazine, so it must be seinen" and such arguments since that's not always the case. The series should be examined under the given definitions of seinen or some other demographic, and therefore only those familiar with the series can accurately offer up the correct demographic. Either way, even if we don't revert it, I am confidant that someone else will, especially considering the popularity of this series. And even if they don't, we could just as simply try to revert it again sometime next week with an added entry on the talk page to direct anyone else to talk first before they edit.

On a related note, with W Wish and Final Approach (visual novel), I believe the demographics for those series should be chosen only by those familiar with the series, as I stated above. If niether you or Laughlikecrazy have seen either series, then I would recommend go with the demographic of the original material (the visual novels). Depending on the companies that produced the games, it can be very easy to discover the original chosen audience, especially if it's an eroge.--十八 10:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Trust me, I was as surprised as you were that Laughlikecrazy was trying to push the issue since I looked at the maker of both games, PrincessSoft, which according to thier official website has a girls and boys side of the site (the girls side has the games aimed at males, and vice versa). If you go to the girls, side, you can find both games listed there. Just go here, and you can see that Final Approach is ninth from the top, and W Wish is 14 places under that. Also, notice the URL of that page where is says "seihin" twice: an obvious mis-romanization of seinen.--十八 10:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

If looking at the types of games featured on the girl's side of that website did not pursuade Laughlikecrazy, then I must say, he/she needs to read the bishōjo game article and make the distinction.--十八 12:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to interupt, but Seihin is the romanization of "製品" which means "Products". It is still not confirmed that the game is Seinen. As for the girls side, it says "通常" which means "General". So in fact, it is not confirmed that it's a seinen game.--殺人事件 | talk 22:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, I lose. I do say I think it is pretty much of a Seinen game considering it's a 美少女 game. Can you please change the Anime News Network article then? Anyhow, do as you like. I won't touch demographics anymore as for they seem as the center of dispute.--殺人事件 | talk 22:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

First: Sorry for my bad english. Second: It's no solution to lock a part of a article because someone else isn't the same opinion as you. It's neither clearly seinen nor clearly shounen and since there is no source for one of them, I changed it to male although I think my removal of the demographic box was much more reasonable than continuing a revert-war about a non-essentially information that can't be cited. 62.47.179.241 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.179.241 (talk) 02:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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Re: Girls' Life and Girls' Revolution

Whether the label is male oriented or not, I think we can generally assume that these novels were written for a male audience. It's like how a bishōjo game (or rather an eroge with female characters) is always going to be male oriented, so a yuri title is generally going to be targeted towards males, just as a yaoi title will be for females. And yes I realize Marimite is a shōjo yuri series, but I'm speaking generally.--十八 22:23, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

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Yuri manga magazines

I've tried to look into other yuri manga magazines that don't currently have articles (Yuri Shimai, Yuri Hime, Comic Yuri Hime S), but of the research I did, I could not find any other magazines, other than two others listed at List of manga magazines that don't have articles currently: Mist, and Yuri Tengoku. When I went to the Japanese Wiki page on Girl's Love, I only found the three magazines we have articles on listed there. Does this mean there are only five yuri manga magazines in existence, or what? Can you perhaps try to look into it and tell me if you find anything. It would be a shock to me if there were only these five that were ever created exclusively for yuri manga (even if it is a niche market, you'd think that other companies may have tried it in the past).--十八 13:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I can say, (and very proud to say LOL), that I love yuri manga. I keep up with the japanese news, if there was any other japanese yuri manga magazine I would have heard of it. sadly other than those 5 magazines, I haven't heard of any other :( --ChuChu (talk) 20:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

That's too bad, but I guess there will always be the manga serialized in the few magazines that are still active (I'm a little skeptical if either Mist or Yuri Tengoku are still active for lack of articles on the Japanese wiki). As for yuri manga, I too am quite the enthusiast, though have not read many. I recently started the Kuchibiru Tameiki Sakurairo article; the translation is found here, and if you haven't already read it, I would recommed it.--十八 22:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Champion Red

Can you confirm that Champion Red is a shōnen magazine? I believe it is seinen.--Nohansen (talk) 03:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Josei

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Josei. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution.

Re: Josei et al

I think this should be taken to WP:ANIME and start a discussion on it. Remember, if there's a dispute, it's better to talk now, and edit later, especially since you were edit waring.--十八 18:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, I might add, that if you were going to move them, it'd be to Shōnen manga et al, not Shōnen Manga et al like you did.--十八 19:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hyakko

Hi. On an article you created, Hyakko, there are two different dates for the start of the manga. Did you make a mistake on the one on the infobox or am I missing something? Greetings, --Cattus ^talk 21:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. Greetings, --Cattus ^talk 18:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Dear (manga)

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March 2009

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April 2009

Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to The Vision of Escaflowne, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 17:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

May 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on List of manga magazines. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Demographic

I've noticed that you've added the demographics to several light novels. Do you actually have sources that these are the correct demographics? Because without sources, or that the publisher/imprint specializes in a particular demographic, the demographic field shouldn't be field in do to lack of verifiability. —Farix (t | c) 13:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea why you removed the target readership of these light novels, the labels these light novels are published under are KNOWN male oriented light novel labels. --ChuChu (talk) 13:40, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I removed them because there were no imprint or magazine listed in the infobox. So the correct demographic is unknown without a reliable source. So how can you verify that these are male oriented light novels? —Farix (t | c) 13:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I know the labels they are published under, I just don't add them. That's no problem I'll add the male oriented light novel labels these light novels are published under. --ChuChu (talk) 13:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mayoi Neko Overrun!

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Ping

Dropping this here as you created a lot of article related to upcoming anime series:

• Otome Yōkai Zakuro at Anime News Network
• Lily Hoshino's Otome Yōkai Zakuro Manga Gets Anime (Updated)
• Official Anime Website

--KrebMarkt 08:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

September 2012

Welcome to Wikipedia. I have noticed that some of your recent genre changes, such as the one you made to Sword Art Online, have conflicted with our neutral point of view and verifiability policies. While we invite all users to contribute constructively to Wikipedia, we urge all editors to provide reliable sources for edits made. When others disagree, we recommend you to seek consensus for certain edits. Thank you. Not actually genre changes, but demographic changes. Nevertheless, I felt it would be good to leave you a note. Thanks. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

May 2013

Regarding light novel demographics for Sora no Otoshimono, please cite the reference that attaches the demographic to the publication, whether it's "Male", "Shonen", "Seinen" as it's not something self-evident like Shonen Jump. -AngusWOOF (talk) 20:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

List of manga magazines

I made a section on the talk-page regarding demographics. I do not think they should be included as it lends WP:UNDUE weight towards one particular sex. Unless you can properly source the magazines as being exclusive just to male or female it is also against WP:V. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:48, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

These magazines are aimed at a certain readership. Yonkoma, mixed, yuri, ... are not target readership, these are content of the magazines. Target readership of these magazines can be found on various publishers websites and/or Japanese online stores. --ChuChu (talk) 13:15, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

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Demographics

{{Infobox animanga}} defines the demographic parameter as: "Target demographic of the work. (ex. Children, Shōjo, Shōnen, Seinen, Josei, Salaryman, or General Interest). This is established by the Japanese magazine in which the work was originally published." Gender does not fit into this because it is much too general. How do we know the magazine is targeting males or females, while the demographic category is more often known? How are you even determining this? We cannot base this on personal feeling or else it is original research. If you still feel gender belongs, it must be sourced specifically to a gender rather than a subgroup. Demographics are usually not sourced because they are clearly stated in the articles for the magazine. Opencooper (talk) 05:26, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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Hummus

Hello. What's your reason for removing Category:Israeli cuisine from this article? The body text describes it as "a common part of everyday meals in Israel". --McGeddon (talk) 19:25, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I added Lebanese, Jordanian, Palestinian, Syrian cuisines, which hummus is a cuisine of these countires, but was reverted because of the reason mentioned in a comment in the article that says this:

Category:Levantine cuisine --> Levantine cuisine subsumes Lebanese, Palestinian, Syrian, Jordanian, (northern) Iraqi, and Israeli cuisines, so those categories should not be included separately per WP:CAT

So from this I understand that I can't add these countires, and hence also Israel can't be added according to this comment. Talk with the guy that reverted me... ChuChu (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, right, got it, I can see the hidden comment now. Thanks for clarifying. --McGeddon (talk) 19:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

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The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the Arab–Israeli conflict, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

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Doesn't matter to me, just corrected the page according to that comment. Thank you. ChuChu (talk) 20:08, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

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Undoing of edits to 'seinen' classification of Manga Time Kirara Carat

Hi, I noticed you undid my edits to the article Manga Time Kirara Carat, e.g. [[1]] & [[2]], without giving any reasoning/evidence. I gave reasoning in my edits. The classification of manga is based on the source magazine's label, and the Kirara Carat publisher and magazine specifically does not use the label "seinen" (unlike seinen magazines). Japanese Wikipedia's page on Houbunsha (the publisher) classifies Manga Time Kirara Carat as 若年層向け（萌え系）4コマ誌 "Young-oriented (moe-type) yonkoma magazine", and classifies two other magazines as "seinen". I don't think there's evidence that Kirara Carat should be considered a "seinen" magazine (although some online retailers might classify it as such, I'm not sure about them). Given this, I've taken the liberty to change the label to "yonkoma magazine" again. However, if you have some evidence that the magazine is officially labelled "seinen", please let me know. -- Creamyhorror (talk) 21:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Japanese wikipedia is not a source, but these are male oriented 4-koma manga magazines. ChuChu (talk) 12:25, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Sure, that's what the Publisher's Association classified them as. Glad we've come to an understanding. -- Creamyhorror (talk) 18:50, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

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Hummus

Just an FYI, the Israeli cuisine cat was included because it is not part of the Levantine parent cat, same as Egyptian and Cypriot cuisine. Therefore there is nothing under Levantine cuisine to get to Israeli cuisine. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 14:32, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

September 2018

Hello. Please refrain from injecting personal opinions to the article Azur Lane. Nowhere on the Ichijinsha's homepage, Twitter page and Japanese WP entry ever indicates or mentions the magazine's category to be seinen. Google News yields no relatable results. Azur Lane's twitter doesn't state the manga's category to be anything other than 4koma either. Your addition of Azur Lane: Very Slow Advance! being a seinen manga, therefore, appears to be unsubstantiated, and has been removed. Additionally, adding "shonen manga" before the magazine name appears to be unnecessary, but I will keep the category:shonen manga for now.

However, your user talk page seems to suggest that you have a extensive history in adding unsourced category into WP:A&M pages over a very long period of time, despite numerous opposition from other editors. This might constitute disruptive editing, and further similar actions may result in you being reported by other editors. Please be noted. Thank you. --Tsumikiria (talk) 01:12, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

You should also refrain from inserting personal opionion to the article. Checking pages from the official website and official twitter is not always enough to find the target readership of any magazine or label. Many of these sites might mention the target readership upon magazine/label startup but the site changes and things get removed. To find the target readership sometimes you'll need to check the magazine on Japanese online book stores.

I'm not afraid of you, report me if you want to, I always add sources when actually needed, and not for known magazines/labels.ChuChu (talk) 18:32, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for clarifying your source. I guess this would be enough for the inclusion of seinen category. Additionally I should have realized that a manga adaption of a young adult oriented game should have its corresponding demography. My bad then.

I'm not going anywhere as to report you, and I shouldn't have accused you of anything. Again, my bad. On the other hand, to prevent potential disputes, it would be helpful in the future if you supplement a source on your first category edit to an article, or add link to the source to your edit summary, since the magazine in this case, まんが4コマぱれっと, is rather obscure as it does not have an English WP entry. Thank you. --Tsumikiria (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

If Kotaku doesn’t satisfy, would these work?

These should replace the tvtropes source since it’s not reliable. In fact, these should be sourced in different areas since being aimed at young adult men is easily supported in google searches of other sources. I do also agree that seinen doesn’t exactly focus on violence, but the point there was that its depictions can be more graphic than shonen. Which is true to some extent. Barely made one (talk) 23:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

@Barely made one: I myself do not like generalizations, there's a very diverse themes, genres, stories, and art styles in both shounen manga and seinen manga, many english sites depicts shounen manga as manga like Naruto, and seinen manga as manga like berserk, which is funny and uninformative at the same time. Here's a seinen yuri manga for you: Konohana Kitan, shounen yuri manga: Bloom Into You, and seinen 4-koma moe manga: New Game!, Anima Yell!, Hidamari Sketch, and the countless others.... Where do these titles fall with those generalizations? they fall no where, and then those uninformed people reading those generalized statements will hence deny that Konohana Kitan is a seinen manga since it's not like those generalized statements.

To be really informative, something like shounen manga are manga serialized in shounen manga magazines, and seinen manga are manga serialized in seinen manga magazine. That would be informative and exactly to the point, since in the end that's the actual definition of all shounen and seinen manga. Content/art style/theme/story/genre of these titles does NEVER matter, it can be whatever. ChuChu (talk) 21:51, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, late reply, it seems my notifications aren’t working. I certainly agree with your stance, but unfortunately Wikipedia only reflects info found in “reliable” sources. I was looking to replace the tvtropes citation with a more acceptable one, since anyone can edit that site (much like this one) and if you read their entry, it is mostly generalizations, too, that are probably worst than in the ones I have. I think even though mine may contain questionable statements, it should probably be okay to switch it in as long as some editor later doesn’t add them to the Wiki page. I’m wary of just removing the source because like here, it seems overly easy to get reverted. I’m also ok with switching in just one source, whichever’s the lesser of the evils. Barely made one (talk) 22:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

@Barely made one: Actually after checking the tvtropes site (I never accessed it before), while I found quite a bit of mistakes on the tvtropes seinen page, but I was quite amazed that it describes correctly many works, even those works that you'll find other uninformative websites either not describing them as anything, or trying to make these works be "general" or "for everyone" type of works (no, these are not general works, and no, they are not aimed at the general public), or even much worse, describing them as being shoujo or josei manga. One of the nice finds on the website, is that it describes Sakura Trick and all other works that appear in all Manga Time Kirara magazines as seinen manga... which is pretty good from my point of view... all the Kirara magazines are aimed at the seinen audience after all. Though I can see some mistakes here and there, but much better than any other site that I have seen so far. I wouldn't mind replacing tvtropes, but if possible please find a source as good as it. ChuChu (talk) 20:16, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, compared to my sources above, there are certainly more generalizations. It states how seinen emphasizes realism, story, and character development rather than action in shonen, is more pragmatic in relationships than shojo, and graphically sexual (this may be true), mature, and sophisticated than shonen. And that's without going into the anime "classification". I assume the problem is with the violence comparison in my Jappleng source. Although I think both of them are solid, I'll replace Tvtropes with just the google books one if that's ok with you. Barely made one (talk) 22:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Barely made one: This one? I don't mind, but text there looks like a copy from wikipedia. ChuChu (talk) 22:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Damn, after checking the 1st page it is. I guess this is where the conflict is. I think “graphic violence & sexuality compared to shonen manga” in that Jappleng source isn’t harmful since the overall article is pretty solid and the statement is true to an extent. It’s near-impossible to find other sources: these are the only ones left aside from it. Maybe best to take your pick. Barely made one (talk) 00:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Barely made one: this one does not mention that it's aimed at 18-30 males, but a general "18-30-year-old demographic" is mentioned. Though 18-30 is also wrong. and this site has Yotsuba& (which is a shounen manga) as an example. The second one is much better than the first though, I guess. Though truthfully I dislike both.ChuChu (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

And this one? Whether 18-30 is wrong isn’t relevant though. You can find Japanese sources to dispute it if you want, or just let the Wiki status quo of 18-50 stay since I’m fine with that. A general 18-30 year demographic is probably accurate however, with ‘general’ being the keyword. Some magazines could be aimed at older than 30 readers, but they seem to be in the minority. (Also, looking at the references in shōnen page the same websites I gave you are used there, so...) Barely made one (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

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Link provided. Next time please do a simple search to find that the light novel label is aimed at males. ChuChu (talk) 06:11, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, please remember to be WP:CIVIL. You added the information yourself, so the onus is on you to provide a source. Your source was a retailer that in no way mentions that the imprint was specifically geared towards male readers and I can only find the Japanese Wikipedia stating such, which can't be used as a source. lullabying (talk) 06:39, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Added citation from the publisher. There's a reason why almost all Japanese online shops mention the label as aimed at males. If you are not satisfied, please do your own research. ChuChu (talk) 19:54, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

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