User talk:Cast/Archive 2

Archive 1

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Archive 5

Wow

I award this Comics Star to User:Cast for his great efforts on the article Anarky.

That's impressive work there. Just a few more points. The images need fair use rationales, and they also need shrinking. Copyrighted images shouldn't be any bigger than they would appear in the article. Also, the trivia section needs to be worked into the article somewhere, trivia sections are frowned upon. I think if those happen, a peer review would be a bloody good idea, and then maybe if that goes well take it to featured articles. Steve block Talk 21:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I thank you for your appreciation of my efforts, and for presenting me with my first wiki-award. I've made all of the corrections you noted. All images now have fair use rationals, and have been reduced in size. However, there were panels which held text I felt a reader could benefit from reading, so as to understand the context of the panel. These panels were not fully shrunk. I have also deleted the trivia section (I never knew how to integrate that last note, and to be honest, I never felt it should have been added. I just kept hoping I'd eventually get some citation to validate its inclusion.) Your suggestion that it might be FA worthy seems optimistic, but I only hope that now that these adjustments have been made, nothing stands in the way of the article at least receiving GA status.--Cast 00:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I've just encountered your work on Anarky and I'm very impressed. This is just what I like to see in a comics article: emphasis on publication history, thorough citations, ulitlization of creator interviews to backup article content. Excellent contribution to Wikipedia. Thank you. ~CS 07:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks and congratulations for all the work you've put in on Anarky - it's great to see another WP:CMC article make GA! --Mrph 20:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

List of anarchists.

Greetings, SwitChar. As of a few minutes ago I only just learned of the proposition, debate, subsequent deletion of the Anarchists list, and thought to commend your arguments in its favor, and your creation of a sandbox version. In my opinion, your version is superior in various ways, not the least of which being by far more coherent and organized, and hope that you will eventually be able to use it to recreate the list.

I would also like to add a few to this to help you, but being your project, I hesitate to do so without your permission. I shall simply explain my additions and allow you to consider them. Note that all of them have self identified as anarchists to the best of my knowledge, as I would not wish to repeat the same mistakes which killed the previous list. The first would be John Cage, an avant guard composer (I sadly cannot recall my source, and so I would not add him immediately, but he is known to have written a book comprised of poety inspired by Anarchism, as well as to have composed music intended to be "non-heriarchial" in the sense that there were no dominent instruments/performers;) Grant Morrison, an author who wrote The Invisibles which explored anarchist themes and featured multiple anarchist characters; and Bob Black, an author and lawyer, (I noticed that your list lacked anyone in the "politics and law" section, and while he might be best placed in the authors section, I thought to suggest him. He is also a highly controversial figure, but I do not doubt he is a self-identified anarchist;) and lastly, Shusui Kotoku, Sakae Osugi, and Noe Ito, all three important japanese authors and publishers.

I hope your project continues steadily, that these additions will help along this long process, and that you will eventually be able to restore this list. Until then, you have my thanks for your efforts. --Cast 07:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm a little worried about the recreation of the list because some admins will delete recreated articles out of process regardless of content difference. If the list is well cited, organised and tidy though, I think there will be less problems with that. As it is, once the sandboxed list is big enough I'll move it to article space and defend it if anyone tries to delete it again.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's in my namespace, but it isn't "my" article, so if you have a suggestion or addition, feel free to make it. As I mentioned, I'm not especially worried about finding citations for people known mainly for being anarchists (though it always helps), but people known in other fields who are anarchists need citations as soon as possible. That's part of what got the first list deleted. Ideally, all entries (even Proudhon and Bakunin) should be cited by the time it's moved to article space.

I'll look into the people you mentioned; thanks for bringing them up. I hadn't heard of some of them before. I did briefly look into Morrison a while ago, but only to the extent of seeing if there was already a citation in his Wikipedia article, which there wasn't at the time. There's also someone whose name I can't remember; he was a filmmaker who deals mostly with LGBTQ issues in his work and identifies as an anarchist. Know of him at all?

There's also a copy of most of the original list in the talk of the sandboxed version, so anyone can try to go through that and add any missing entries.

I'm also not yet sure whether I want to add musicians to the list, because there is currently a list of anarchist musicians. I think eventually I'll try to organise it into musicians who are also anarchists (Like Lemmy or John Lydon) having a section in the List of anarchists, and bands or musicians who are anarchist in their music (Like Crass, Emcee Lynx etc.) having an article of their own, something approximating list of musicians with anarchist lyrical content. For the time being though, I'll leave out musicians and add them all to the list of anarchist musicians.

Anyway, thanks very much. Feel free to contact me about it or contribute any time. Cheers. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 10:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

(PS - I see it was you who improved the Anarky article so much. Very good job. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 10:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC))

I am also of the mind that a recreated list, should it be a large improvement over a deleted original, should be preserved. I feel that your list qualifies for this in several respects. Once this project has neared completion, I suggest contacting other editors who would be interested in preserving it and asking them to argue in its favor should problems arise.

I am also glad that you are not possessive of the article, but I would still defer to your opinion, as you clearly have an idea of what direction you wish to take the process in, and I respect that. I will however continue to make sourced suggestions in the future and hope it will prove fruitful. Unfortunately, I cannot help you with your first request, as I am utterly unfamiliar with most film makers, but should I hear of one which matches your description, I'll alert you immediately. I'll also take note of your recovered list and make use of it in my future suggestions. For ease of use, I would advise striking out any from that list once they have been sourced and added to the sandboxed version. This will become increasingly important as the project progresses.

I can see your point regarding musicians, and would suggest a compromise: the include a subsection listed as Musicians, which would provide a link redirecting the reader to the main article, the list of anarchist musicians. This will make searching for such people more user friendly. I would also suggest the inclusion of a Military subsection, for anarchists who are well known for their work during militant anarchist uprisings, such as Nestor Makhno, Buenaventura Durruti, Francisco Sabaté Llopart, and Kim Jwa-jin

At any rate, I'll make an effort to aid you in the future as best I can, though this cannot be my top priority (I am currently making an effort to improve Osugi's article,) and will certainly encourage the preservation of this list once it is properly uploaded.

And finally, thank you for noting my efforts on the Anarky article. What can I say? Anything for a fictional comrade! --Cast 18:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

(PS - I only just noticed that your list does include a link to the list of anarchist musicians, and so I retract my suggestion that it be included. --Cast 18:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC))

---

Hey, SwitChar. I'm sure you've noticed that I've been editing the List of Anarchists. I was just doing a little more editing to it today when I thought to suggest a new section for Former Anarchists, as there are two of people in the list of self-identified anarchists who later declared themselves to have retired, given up, or moved on from the anarchic cause. These include Kanson Arahata and Murray Bookchin. At the moment they are the only ones on the list I know to have stopped being anarchists, but it could come up more as the list grows in the future.--Cast 00:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Anarchism in Cuba

Hey, so I figured since I keep seeing your activity around, I may as well invite you to contribute whatever you can to this article. I've started it in my sandbox, and could use any advice towards improvement or whatever. In particular, making paragraphs flow into each other a little better, at the moment it feels like a big glorified timeline. Cheers! Murderbike 19:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I couldn't figure out what the original source for that drawing of Roig San Martin is. Do you know? Murderbike 06:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

In response to your question, I do not know the source illustrator of the image, but I am aware that it is based upon this image of Enrique himself. A source or date for that photograph, however, is beyond my grasp.

Further, I thank you for inviting me to take part in the creation of an article detailing the history of Cuban anarchism. I've been holding on to this particular image with a similar intention myself. I had first planned on completing the article on Sakae Osugi, before creating an article on Anarchism in Japan, before tackling a Cuban article. I do wish this project the best of luck.--Cast 07:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the photo would have to be at least fair-use (historical figure), and maybe even PD, since he died in, uh, I think 1889, so the photo would have to be at least that old. Wow, Anarchism in Japan will be an interesting one. Is there much in the way of English sources for that? Anyway, I appreciate anything you can contribute. Oh yeah, It was you that added the note about Blackbird RAUM in the Raum article, right? Do you know them? Cheers! Murderbike 07:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

There are actually more english language sources on Japanese anarchism than you might at first suppose. Japan had a very vibrant anarchist movement at one point in history, with international ties to western, Korean, and Chinese anarchists. At one point, January was a memorial period as important as May Day amongst anarchists, due to the execution of japanese anarchists following the High Treason Incident. However, anarchists were crushed by brutal repression in Japan in the years just before WWII, and have still not yet recovered fully. There is a modern anarchist movement which is now slowly growing, due in part to the obsolescence of leftist alternatives, and with the aid of networking through the internet. English sources for early 20th century texts and post WWII incidents are also available through the Kate Sharply Library, which has several pamphlets available on the subject. Further, there is an english language biography of Sakae Osugi in print, and which I have in my current possession. It details a great deal of the events surrounding Osugi's life, and is also a valuable resource for information on Noe Ito. Japanese anarchist websites are also of use. Three of interest include Cira Japana, a japanese equivalent to the KSL; and Anarchy in Nippon, which provides an excellent timeline for anarchism in japan (although it is in need of an update); and perhaps of very rare importance is this image gallery, which contains pictures of items owned by famous anarchists, including the first japanese anarchist himself, Shūsui Kōtoku. With these sources, I hope to put together a fair article on the subject matter.

As for Blackbird ROUM, I was not the anonymous poster who first placed their information on the Roum article, but I did wikify it I am aware of the band, and know that their CD is presently available online, through Quiver Distro or Little Black Cart.--Cast 08:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's great. I'm kinda surprised I hadn't heard more about it. Western education, ugh. As to Raum, I just asked 'cause the band I play in is going on tour with them (again) this fall. Good friends, it was funny to see them get mentioned. Anyway, good luck on that article, I'm excited to see the finished product. Cheers! Murderbike 17:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sherman Austin

Hey, if you're not too busy, would you want to keep an eye on this article? There's been some slightly contentious editing going on. Cheers! Murderbike 07:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

It is inappropriate for an editor to simply post content in the "external links" section and then invite others to use it as a source to expand the article. This is known as "source solicitation". Please avoid this in the future. Factchecker atyourservice (talk) 17:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Anarchism; template and category

RE:Labadie Collection, just wondering about the rationale you're using to include/remove Template:Anarchism sidebar and Category:Anarchism – shouldn't both go together? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skomorokh (talk • contribs) 13:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Please allow me to explain my reasoning. The Anarchism template includes a number of subsections, the most pertinent to this article being History of Anarchism, as this article describes a collection of historic anarchist texts. However, the Anarchism category is not specific to this article. More appropriate would be the History of anarchism category, a subsection of the Anarchism category. This same rational would remove Emma Goldman from the Anarchism category (she is located under the Anarchists category subsection) but keep the Anarchism template located within the article pertaining to her (she is significant to anarchist Schools of thought, Theory and practice, and History.)

I hope this explanation is sufficient.--Cast 16:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

So, the template should go on all pages related to anarchism, whereas Category:Anarchism should be removed in favour of subcategories wherever possible? Skomorokh ^incite 16:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

This is my estimation, yes. But if you have an alternative that may serve better, I'd be more than happy to hear it out and implement it.--Cast 19:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Would you mind looking at this recent comment on my talkpage re:anarchism template and category? I'm afraid I don't quite know what the fellow is getting at. Thanks again, Skomorokh ^incite 00:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

---

Need your help. Any idea how we can make text to wrap around both Template:Anarchism sidebar and Template:Forms of government on Anarchy page? As a side note: I have included Category:Anarchism on Template:Anarchism sidebar but now think it was a wrong move since category has many more sub-categories, and some articles where template is present may better fit into respective sub-category than just generic Category:Anarchism. Maksdo 22:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your initial question; is it that you want Template:Forms of government to automatically hide its contents like Template:Anarchism sidebar? Or rather that both templates have text that overlaps their boundaries? In either case, and with the template/category questions, User:Cast is the most knowledgeable and experienced Wikipedian; I'll direct your question to them and see if we can sort this out. Regards, Skomorokh ^incite 00:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

...how to make article text to wrap around both templates (it has nothing to do with any text inside of templates). When I use IE 6.0+ there is a gap between "For other uses..." and the intro blurb. Text "Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχία anarchía, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following..." doesn't wrap around Template:Anarchism sidebar at all. Text wraps just fine in Firefox. Maksdo 03:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd hardly consider myself an experienced wikipedian, but being the user who reverse engineered the Scientology template (which doesn't seem to exist any more) to create the Anarchism template, I'll accept the description on this occasion.

I have checked the Anarchy page on both FireFox and Internet Explorer, and found the problem you're referring to. After a bit of experimentation, I found that the bug takes place if two templates, any two, are included above the first subsection. Placing either Anarchism or Forms of Government in the intro alone causes no problems. Placing them both together in any order causes that gap. However, by placing one under the first subsection title, Anarchy after state collapse, fixes the bug. I've taken the initiative to do so. I'm afraid I don't know how to fix the problem completely, as it seems to be a script error I cannot correct.

As regards Template:Anarchism sidebar and Category:Anarchism, I can see where you added the category, but it doesn't seem to effect the template page -- or the template itself -- in anyway. Perhaps you haven't formatted it as you intended? That said, I don't think the template goes in the Anarchism category itself. I think, if anything, the Template should be included in an Anarchism Task Force page, which has not been created.

I've been thinking about assembling such a group, as there seems to be a fair number of wikipediens such as ourselves who are interested in maintaining Anarchist related wiki content. But then, I remember that would require organization, and we all know "organized anarchist" is a contradiction in terms, am I right or am I right?--Cast 03:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It goes without saying; that would be order, when of course anarchy means chaos. Sign me up! Skomorokh ^incite 11:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations - Anarchism in Cuba

Congratulations to you, and those who assisted, for your work on Anarchism in Cuba. The article has turned out rather wonderfully, and is a great addition to the general collection of anarchist related wiki articles. Do you think you will be moving on to any new wiki-projects, or will you be taking a break for the time being?--Cast (talk) 15:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! for the kudoes! It was a long time coming, and I'm glad to be done with it. But also excited about finding something else to work on, though I've always got little things I'm working on (lot of photography lately), or planning on starting. How is Anarchism in Japan coming along? Oh, and to the discussion above, I believe that it is ALWAYS preferable to use subcategories when possible. This way, something is automatically in Category:Anarchism if they are put in Category:Anarchists and whatnot, Category:Rivers in Washington instead of Category:Rivers, etc. Murderbike (talk) 01:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The Anarchism in Japan article is coming along slowly. I have created the bare foundations for it within my sandbox, which can be accessed here. Feel free to contribute to it at will. I would prefer to first complete the Sakae Osugi and improve the Noe Ito articles first, but that is merely because I will not always have access to information on them, and must take advantage of what I do have right away.--Cast (talk) 04:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

anarcho-project

Hey, so Skomorokh mentioned y'all talking about trying to get some sort of thing together to organize the interested-in-anarchy folks around here. I know there used to be a WikiProject Anarchism, but it died before I came around. I was thinking that if nobody had the time/energy to do a whole new project, we could just create an anarchism task force at WikiProject Philosophy, much like the commies have done here. What do ya think? Murderbike (talk) 02:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

That would be correct, I am indeed interested in creating a small organization for editors interested in organizing anarchist related wiki-articles. To be entirely accurate, a Task Force was my exact suggestion, having already noticed the creation of the Marxism task force. Below is an extract of the recovered conversation.

...I think, if anything, the Template should be included in an Anarchism Task Force page, which has not been created.
I've been thinking about assembling such a group, as there seems to be a fair number of wikipediens such as ourselves who are interested in maintaining Anarchist related wiki content. But then, I remember that would require organization, and we all know "organized anarchist" is a contradiction in terms, am I right or am I right?--Cast 03:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It goes without saying; that would be order, when of course anarchy means chaos. Sign me up! Skomorokh 11:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I've briefly researched the requirements for creating a Task-force, but have found myself with little time to prepare the foundation for it immediately. Perhaps you ought to follow through on your initiative. I would be prepared to join such a group.--Cast (talk) 04:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Awesome. I moved the Marxism Task Force page to my sandbox, and started replacing all the marxist stuff with anarchist stuff. Now I'm gonna make a userbox, and check in with the philosophy project to make sure there's no weird hoops (bureacracy, ahhhh!!!!) we have to jump through to make it official. I'll let ya know when it's all sorted out. I'll be busy all weekend though, so I may not get much done after tonight, until monday or tuesday. Cheers! Murderbike (talk) 04:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I can understand your anxieties concerning The Bureaucracy. This was the exact reason why I had to stop my initial foray into the task force creation process.

I'll contribute as much as I can to this process, within reason. I've already provided several userboxes, back-engineered from the Marxism box. I naturally chose symbols over a portrait of a Vaunted Anarchist Leader. Of course, we love our fallen comrades, but they'd blush to think we'd put them at the head of such a project. Each user box has a symbol taken from the Anarchist symbolism page, and one is in black, just to provide an examples of potential options. And of course, we should not neglect the possibilities offered within this collection of images.--Cast (talk) 05:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, ye headed me off at the pass! I'm definitely partial to the black box, but not picky. Choices are what makes capitalism great, right? For some reason, the one box is sitting in a weird place on my screen, and I couldn't figure out how to make it drop down. It's the fourth one in there, and I was trying to make it so there would be two rows of three, but it wouldn't do anything. Alas. Murderbike (talk) 05:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It's now taken care of. Hope it's pleasing to you. Of course, I would not expect that we will keep all of these as options; perhaps we might want to whittle it down to just one or two. But you know anarchists. Each one just insists on being an individual. It's crazy.--Cast (talk) 05:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Splendid work, chaps. I'll just sit here by the pool mixing Margarita's; let me know when the work's done! Skomorokh ^incite 09:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Emma Goldman changes

Hello there. Thanks for your attention to Emma Goldman, which I'm rewriting to bring to FA status. I reverted the inclusion of "Suddenly" to the blockquote about her first public speaking experiences, since it's not part of the original text. I would also like to undo the change you made to the position of the image of her gravestone; the extra space currently between the end of "Death" and the beginning of "Philosophy" looks rather unsightly to me. I hope this is an agreeable reversion? (I didn't want to make it on my own without discussing it, since – unlike the quote – it's a matter of preference.) Cheers. – Scartol • Tok 16:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I've now corrected these matters myself. When a sentence is quoted, but does not make sense out of context, words can be substituted or included, but must be placed in parenthesis. When a sentence is abbreviated, be certain to use three period points to note the cut words. I've substituted the word "Suddenly" with the abbreviation note. No further addition is necessary, as the text is understandable out of context. Alternatively, it could have been written as:

:(Suddenly,) something strange happened....

Again, this addition was unnecessary. Abbreviation will be enough.

As for the space added to the end of the Death sub-section: I made this addition because the image of Goldman's grave was conflicting with the Anarchism template, causing bleeding in words in the Anarchism sub-section. As the template has been lowered, this problem is resolved and the space can be removed. I have resolved this myself.

I thank you for your consideration and hope you will have ease in future improvements to the article.--Cast (talk) 19:50, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Anarchism in Japan

Hey, so I randomly found a book at the library called "The Japanese Communist Movement: 1920-1966", and it's got a bit of stuff about anarchists in it. Do you have it? If not, I was gonna transcribe all the little sections mentioning anarchists, to have available for this article when it gets rolling. Interested? Murderbike (talk) 01:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Most definitely! Please do this at your pace, as I will not likely have anything written immediately. And of course, when I do, there will still be ample time to rewrite as many drafts as are necessary.--Cast (talk) 02:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool, I'll type some of it up tonight, some more tomorrow. I'll put it on the talk page of your sandbox if that's cool with you. Murderbike (talk) 02:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

After lengthy debates on Talk:Anarchism

I'm not sure if you were around for the debates, Cast, but for most of last year the main point of contention on the Anarchism page was the relationship between anarcho-capitalism and the (rest of the) anarchist movement. RJII — and his various socks — regularly contended the point that most anarchists (or something similar, the exact phrasing was very often controversial) are anti-capitalists, whether social anarchists or mutualists. It was one of these accounts that first introduced the citation from the Oxford Companion to Philosophy. After borrowing the book from a friend a few months ago, I noticed that it contained itself the assertion that most anarchists reject capitalism. Given that these were the accounts that alleged "intellectual dishonesty", I'm advising a heads-up from any more socks. I've included the citation in the article, but I'll also be raising it on the talkpage. Now that the vast majority of active anarcho-capitalist editors are reasonable and mostly NPOV, and the anti-partisan consensus has been established, the importance of the issue should diminish greatly. If not, this is just a warning of what may be to come. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 12:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

List of @ musicians

Hey, just wondering if the dispersal of band members is because of the concern about the title of the article, or it being easier to cite individuals, or some other reason I can't think of. Good job either way, gotta keep violet/riga at bay, eh? Murderbike (talk) 07:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The dispersement is useful for both of the reasons you point out, but also because individual members of "anarchist" bands may not be anarchists, but merely sympathizers, or close friends of actual anarchist band members who just needed to fill out a space for a few months between gigs. Also, listing individual musicians gives an opportunity to give more information on each, by providing information on the instruments they use (they may play instruments other than those used in a particular band); the music styles they performed (as individual members may experiment independently of their band mates); and which bands they performed in (bands come and go, but anarchists are eternal... unless they're traitors.) All of this makes the list a viable and useful tool for researchers interested in finding out more about anarchist musicians of any stripe.

Further, not all members of a band may be musicians. For example, Crass has two "members" who's activity was mostly supplementary in nature. One was a film producer who made tapes of band performances; another was an artist who primarily created album art for the band (although she occasionally played the piano.) The film producer was not included in the list, though the pianist was primarily recognized for that contribution.

As for violet/riga... it's hard to not believe at this point that this person isn't just trolling. I mean, this administrator was very punctual about this deadline. I still don't buy into accusations of "systematic deletion" of anarchist articles, but this is silly. There are other articles that we're trying to give our attention to as well. We can't be expected to drop our lives just so we can clean up a list on the spot, or see it nominated for deletion. At a certain point, if Violet wants to see the article improved so badly, violet should just take care of it on his (her?) own. --Cast (talk) 07:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there a two month break between deletion nominations or something? And agreed on everything else, well done! Oh yeah, know anybody handy with photoshop that wants to make an anarchist barnstar, the three folks that did the majority of the work on promoting Emma Goldman to FA would be good to get one. Murderbike (talk) 07:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

There isn't always a two month deadline set after AfD nominations. This was a special case, which took place off the AfD discussion. In the Deletion Review, there was a second discussion held by just a few editors.

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

While I accept that there is certainly no consensus for deletion here I do feel that the keep voters haven't provided a decent opposition to the arguments for deletion. The key points are:

1. There is no reason why this can't be a category and it would be easier to maintain if it were
2. The title implies musicians and not bands - it mostly consists of the latter
3. There are very few sources for most and this could be a BLP concern
4. Despite suggestions of sorting out inclusion criteria and looking into a categorisation system other than alphabetical nothing has progressed during the nomination.

The arguments for keep seem to comprise:

1. "I'd rather fix the problems", "Afd is not cleanup"
2. Claims of a "systematic attack on anarchist"
3. "This list may be improved" (emphasis mine)

I believe that a category would be better than a list and that the main arguments for keeping the article ignore that suggestion. violet/riga (t) 18:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

* Endorse - No consensus seemed to be the consensus. If things haven't improved in two months as promised in the AfD, list it for deletion again with focus on purpose of lists, the lack of criteria for inclusion and the failure to adhere to that criteria, and Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations. -- Jreferee t/c 18:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
* As the closer of the AFD, I don't see where the problem is - in my opinion, although a category would be a good option, there were few supporting it in the AFD explicitly (say two others). GDonato (talk) 19:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
* Endorse closure. The arguments weren't the strongest, but neither was there consensus to delete, so that defaults to keep (this is a feature, not a bug, despite a number of recent DRVs that have been essentially second-chance AFDs). I will take you up on the category question. A category should represent an inherent quality of a topic. I'm not sure that the political stance of a musician/band at a given point fits that ideal. Also, a list can be fully documented and structured, whereas a category cannot. Categories are too easy to add to an article without adding real support and bands are a really good example of where this is frequently abused. --Dhartung Talk 19:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

— Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 November 3, (emphasis added)

I read this when it was first decided, and which is why I made this particular post in the anarchist musicians talk page. You can literally see that this was the point when the Anarchist Task Force was conceived, even if it would take several weeks and your participation to see it born. I was already aware of the Marxism Task Force, but reading this deletion review discussion take place while we weren't looking just cemented the sense that we had to have a space to communicate with each other and organize our efforts.

As for photoshop; well, I am myself a little skilled with it, which is why I created the Anarchik Star. But as I am still unable to properly translate Roberto Ambrosoli's comments on the character, I can't tell if his comment about Anarchik not being copyrighted is correct (he seems to imply that he has not copyrighted the character, but placed the copyright symbol on it to discourage use he did not approve of; use by other anarchists should be okay). I'm feeling very confident about that translation, so I would be prepared to gamble and upload the Star, but I know that won't hold up before scrutiny. I suggest asking Switchair, as he seems to be experienced in creating .svg files for articles.

But if you'd happen to know some way we could get an Italian translation of a website, we could potentially get that Anarchik Star set up very fast.--Cast (talk) 08:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Man, that's the first time I looked at the star, it's hilarious. I wonder, if copyright can't be determined, some other image of a "bomb" thrower would be just as funny. As to the creepy sideline discussion, that's really dissappointing that that would go on behind the scenes, but I suppose it makes sense. Well, more reason to jump on making the list less deleteable, though at this point, even though it obviously still needs help, feels fairly beyond all the presented arguments. Murderbike (talk) 08:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)