This is an archive of past discussions about User:CaroleHenson. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Horin Temple - It looks like there's a bit of information that we can use for the 2nd picture (use of dark clouds scud across the moon - which shows agitation). Is there an image in commons?
hototogisu, the Japanese cuckoo - there's not really anything there, unless there's a symbolic meaning for hototogisu, the Japanese cuckoo to appear at night.
I stopped after about the 8th row. I think what would be better is to find a source that describes the 100 phases of the moon - or "One Hundred Aspects of the Moon". It looks like if we find some good written material, we have all 100 images in commons. Can you find something that explains why the series was done? What the significance is? etc.?
Hi Carole, I was a bit confused reading though the Google book as I had to look through the entire book just to find one quote. I wonder if there's an easier approach to identifying vital information? -- RexRowan Talk 09:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
You shouldn't need to do that. You can 1) find a book that seems like it will have the information you need - and then enter the search word or words that you want to find in the place where you search within the book or 2) use the search criteria you're looking for in http://books.google.co.uk/ and it will bring up a list of books. Click on the book title and it will bring you into the book with a list of found places for you to explore.
Places that the search criteria found in one book: places in the book. This one has a lot of places where the search criteria is found. Just click on the first one - and then use "next" to go to the next found instance of the search criteria.
Where you have a specific title you're looking for, put that info in quotes - like "One Hundred Aspects of the Moon" when you're searching for books.
Ok, I popped them open and took a quick peak - good that there's content there!
Do you mind checking to ensure:
1) It's a reliable site - and not a personal webpage, blog, sales site, encyclopedia? This can be done by going to the home page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:36, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
2) The article speaks to the aspect of night in paintings - such as words in the source that say what's in the painting that reveals it's a night painting, how the night aspects are symbolic or significant?
That would be great! The best source so far have been: books, cultural websites (that are not blogs, personal sites or encyclopedic content) and museums.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:36, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
The fist one is an online reference site from a book, the second one is a museum, the third one is a writer's review on Wattpad but seems to have an source, the fourth one is an online gallery run by a person or company. -- RexRowan Talk 20:00, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Number 5 - is about morning, thus does not discuss night
Would you like to find a total of 3-4 images for this section that seem particularly meaningful - or best summarize the "waxing and waning" influence of the full moon? Feel free to swap out the two that I added if you like something better.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Dear Carole, I appreciate all the work you have poured in the recent articles. Don't they look museum quality? I know I keep on giving you rewards because I truly think you deserved every single one of them. And no work you have done is too small to be noticed. I will keep on searching for reliable sources as you mentioned. But mostly I don't want to make you exhausted on this. I want you to take it easy. You are the most polite, efficient and responsible person I've ever met in this place and I truly cherish you. Don't worry if my articles are not perfect or got deleted. I can always write them again once I found enough materials. Have a cup of tea, a bubble bath and a nice walk. Big hugs! Smile! :D RexRowan Talk 09:32, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
There's no need to worry about me, though. At the moment, writing is my relief - it's keeping me going as I'm going through a health issue / pain that keeps me from sleeping and living my life. I'm waiting for the flare-up to die down a bit. Any attempts I've had at getting active have just set me back - even having my grandkids who I'm over the moon about. Until it calms down, this is truly my salvation!--11:09, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I felt that you might have sleeping problems. I have back pain sometimes, it's terrible I couldn't even move. Do you receive regular painkillers? I hope someone is there looking after you! If I was next door I'd be there to cook dinner for you! Feel free to talk to me anytime. I care about the good people behind the usernames :D -- RexRowan Talk 11:21, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, you're so sweet! Yes, I have painkillers to take but I'm very careful about when I use them - for several reasons. But, I have them when the pain gets really bad, and because I've not overused them - they'll help. If that makes sense. I use other, natural forms of pain management - and diversion, like I say, is a huge lifesaver. Although, I think I need to scale back a bit. Thanks for your kind thoughts!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:34, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Here's my two-cents, for whatever that's worth: There was special mention of an effort to make the Infobox use consistent. Adding the other fields could confuse people about what's really supposed to be in the template (but might not be displayed for other technical reasons) and it's not letting the found info see the light of day. If you think the info adds to the article - I would recommend adding it within the body of the article. Again my two cents, I would definitely recommend removing the fields from the Infobox that are not used to avoid confusion for others.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:30, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that much, because it is common knowledge anyway and appear on his relatives' info boxes. I added some more information in the article with a very reliable source from a famous Chinese historian. The book is called Shi Ji. :D -- RexRowan Talk 20:38, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Interesting! I went ahead and removed the three rows that aren't in the Infobox template, just as proper cleanup. You sure have interesting articles that you are involved in!
There was something I was hoping you could translate for me - the translate.google didn't do a very good job. If I cannot find an English version - as you offered earlier, I might have that to run by you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Very pretty! Did you just want to show it to me, or did you think it could be used in the article as an example of a night painting?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:43, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to show it to you but not sure if they paintings have sources or descriptions with them, be good if we can find some though. -- RexRowan Talk 16:46, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
How about if I move it to your spot on the workspace and you can see what you can find? I'm assuming you're sure it's a night painting.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:52, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
No, no night paintings. I went through them, and they were very unique, drawn in a Eastern style with Western themes, people and buildings. -- RexRowan Talk 17:01, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Great!You come up with things that round the article out more! I put them in your workspace. I still have some good sources in my portion of the workspace that I've found to work on the article - so I'll putter along in the meantime. It's looking nice!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:20, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
You are such a star! Beside these art articles, I am also into psychology, moral and justice articles. I personally strive to find the meaning of life all the time, it is funny. I am lack of the theory of mind so I constantly try to figure out why people favour A over B, or what makes people value A over B and so on. This world is very confusing to me. -- RexRowan Talk 17:27, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Funny! I'm very interested in those topics too - particularly the way that psychology and one's family, faith or culture affect justice issues. Like, I'm fascinated about what makes a person like a serial killer truly evil (nature / nurture). I'm very interested in how justice needs to be looked through a cultural lens. And, I wish I knew how to bring greater recognition to the programs in prison systems that bring out people's humanity Support Dogs, Inc.... All very interesting, very complicated! I'd bet we'd have a good talk about this over tea - or whatever!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow, it is such a good programme. We have similar programmes here, and they train the dogs for the autistic people. I would like to have one myself, maybe my dog can sense evil and drag me away from potential harm by using its animal instincts. I think we are heavily influenced by our surroundings, but autistic people like me learn very slowly. Most people think I'm retarded because I do not have the normal understanding and motives like others, when I watch movies I keep on asking people what just happened and why somebody did so and so. And most of the time, I don't get the answers people provided, they don't seem very logical to me but apparently that's how others roll. I remember one funny incident when a relative of us came to visit, the man winked at me when talking about something and I had no reaction because I didn't know what it meant. I later on asked my husband and he told me it meant 'you know what I mean' and I said 'but I didn't know what he meant', hehehe. -- RexRowan Talk 18:19, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Yep, there sure is a lot of subtext that isn't always easy to discern! You seem to be doing remarkably well - and a great sense of humor sure helps in life!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Some years ago, I met a psychopath, thought he was a trustworthy person and my handicape nearly cost my life. The doctor in the emergency room brought me back to life, and from then I kind of don't take life that serious anymore. As some people say, I saw the big picture, everyone dies in the end and competition for personal gain and vanity doesn't matter to me anymore, I just let other win and laugh at me and try not to take it too personally. Anyway, I would like to seek opinion from you on these articles: I wanted to merge Value (personal and cultural) into Value (ethics), but after I read Value theory and Value system, I got confused, what do you think? -- RexRowan Talk 18:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Great attitude! I'll try and emulate that more! Sorry it had to come at a high cost.
Regarding the value articles - It sounds like they're is a distinction from this sentence: "There is a distinction between relative (or personal or cultural value) and absolute (or noumenal) value (not to be confused with mathematical absolute value). Relative value is subjective, depending on individual and cultural views, and is therefore synonymous with personal and cultural value. Absolute value, on the other hand, is philosophically absolute and independent of individual and cultural views, as well as independent of whether it is apprehended or not."
I could see that it might make sense to move the Value (personal and cultural) into the Value (ethics)#Absolute and relative section, but it might make that article long. Personally, I don't think that there's a right or wrong way with this. Has anyone replied yet on the talk page? You might want to touch base with someone who contributed significantly to the articles - by letting them know of the discussion on their talk page. What do you think?--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
It's ok, don't worry about me, I am ok now, on medication too, so I am receiving help. On Value: That's pretty much what I thought, sort in two main categories instead of scattered many sections. Will write on the talk page and take the sticker off for the time being. :D -- RexRowan Talk 19:16, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello! Sure, I'd be happy to work on it with you. It seems right now that it's pretty much an idea submission (I've never been on Wikimedia Fellowships so I'm getting my bearings on the format). The first thing might be to clarify the scope of the work. For instance:
regarding the term "application", is it a computer application?
does it include other autism-friendly efforts (television, film, environments)?
or is it specifically a communication tool so that "autistic people and neurotypicals understand each other better"?
It seems that there's not an article like that already (really surprising) and it would be of good benefit. There are 113 potential articles to link to it when it's completed (really good coverage). One item of interest for me was seeing the The Autism Directory#Autism Friendly Mark that recognizes companies with great autism awareness. I love that!
(PS - I'm taking a bit of a break from the Night paintings articles - both articles are such a large piece of works that it is daunting some times, I needed a break for a bit. I'll get back to it.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:26, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I know. We really need to take it easy and let other editors add some content that they are familiar with. With the idea, yes, it's just a skeleton, I think the app can be used in movies and maybe on iPad too. Basically it offers an suggestion that autistic people may need in order to understand certain context. -- RexRowan Talk 17:48, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Very cool, brilliant idea! Ok, I found some things on it. I can do a bit of editing to get things rolling if you like.
By the way, I am so excited about a general article on "autism friendly" and covering the ways in which people and programs can best serve people's needs, that I might also work on the general, over-arching "autism friendly" article, too. Would you mind looking that over from time to time to ensure I'm on course? I think the term "autism friendly" could make a great overarching article, and your article, of course, could link to it.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:56, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Of course! Start your article, you are bettering humanity for all! I have the first hand experience so we can not go wrong on this! :D And thank you for going over my idea proposal too! Link to it, by all means! :D -- RexRowan Talk 18:09, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I made some edits and added some information. The title should probably be "Autism friendly applications" - since it's a general title for a group of applications rather than something specifically named "Autism Friendly Applications" - but correct me if I'm wrong. I wasn't sure if the article could be formatted in the Wikimedia Fellowship like a Wikipedia article (sections, references section, etc.) since there is a format for "rationale" and other sections. But see what you think. I know that you have something specific also in mind as an iPad application. I just put in one thing to see how that fits for you.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:20, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
It's not a Wikipedia article, more like a project proposal, of course we can find references and stuff. There are other ideas too if you click on the top small blue link to project ideas. Yes, the title probably should be applications as more than one functions may be involved. Tropyfish told me it may be added to the preference options once it's developed. The overall reaction to it is very supportive! :D -- RexRowan Talk 18:28, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm not surprised. It's a great idea! Well, I'll peak in from time to time to see how it's going. That is unless there's more that you were wanting me to do right now.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:34, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Write your article skeleton for the time being and link to it, so people can see the article and be directed to the project. How's that? I will help out anytime you need me. :D -- RexRowan Talk 18:40, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, sounds good. Until it's an article, I don't think I can link to it in the article - but I could add something on the talk page that links to it - and that I'm looking forward to that article providing the content about technology (rather than duplicating it in the main article)... something to that affect.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, it's started Autism friendly. I'm first gathering up all the uses on Wikipedia - adding the link to the article in the process. If there's anything that you see that needs to be tweaked or done more thoughtfully, please let me know. Thanks so much for inspiring me. Let me know what I can do to help with your article. I'm so excited to connect the two!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:15, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Awesome for Autism barnstar
Thank you so much for being awesome for autism! Sorry if I send too many awards. A year ago one of my painter friend suddenly passed away, I came to the realization that I should leave nothing unsaid to all my dear friends in case this happens to me so they know how much I appreciated them. I appreciate all your effort in helping me and the entire disabled community, I am at peace. -- RexRowan Talk 08:44, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, how lovely! I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. What a great attitude you have, though, for living your life. You're an inspiration to me!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I had this idea of writing an article focusing on culture conflicts and the people who are involved in this phenomenon. I want to list all the taboos, misunderstandings and misconceptions as well as the truth that people should take notice of when handling with certain culture issues also when overseas. I'm not sure exactly what I should name it or what kind of structure I should use, it could be a kind of index that direct to certain articles for further reading. What do you think? -- RexRowan Talk 17:14, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
That's very interesting topic - I had an entire college class on just that subject - even down to gestures that have very different means across cultures, and how the wrong name for a product can create the wrong impression (In Spanish "Nova" means "no go" - not a great name for a car when people want reliability in their new car!).
Wow, thanks a lot, you have a very wide vocabulary and knows what to search for, that is very helpful information! I will have a read! :D -- RexRowan Talk 18:32, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Autopatrolled
Hello, following a review of your contributions, I have enabled autopatrolled on your account. This does not affect your editing; rather, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please take note of the following points:
This permission does not give you any special status or authority.
Submission of inappropriate material may lead to its removal.
Sure. Do you mind if I reorder / group the information a bit?
By the way, I read the female Asperger tendencies from the site you told me about - and I had nearly all the characteristics except many of the items in the emotions column. It sure explains a lot about what I experienced - especially in my childhood - if that's the case. There's so much I had to overcome to do well in school and life - so many tricks I've learned to just think about one thing at a time, etc. - it would make sense.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:11, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Like I think you've probably seen I can get overwhelmed by too much information - so if I take it one at a time then I can manage. Otherwise, my head gets in a whirl and I cannot piece anything together.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:13, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
You may have asperger's, I think your IQ is very high. The social part can be learnt if a person's IQ is very high but they still struggle with sensory issues. Maybe check with a doctor, you may well have it, many of the editors on Wiki have it. The list on the other website is not a medical diagnosis criteria, more of a personal experience. There's another type called PDD-NOS. Here is the formal criteria [9] -- RexRowan Talk 11:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Also, regroup them, I trust your judgement! And take your time! :D
Ok, thanks! I'm going through a bit of copy edit on the autism friendly article - and then I'm going to catch some more sleep. I've spent time looking at it and making notes about it - and I'll probably work on it a bit later today. Very impressive insight!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Good sleep is very vital for good judgement so by all means, have a good sleep! The article is raw data from personal experience. I do not want to blame anyone say anyone is wrong, just misunderstanding and different brain wiring I think. Your autism friendly article is going to be very helpful for autistic people! Sleep tight! :D -- RexRowan Talk 17:30, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
Lists of historic places
Hello. Because I know you are working away on the Victoria list, I thought I would draw your attention to the discussion at WP:CANTALK#Wiki Loves Monuments in Canada - Lists of historic places. It seems like there are problems with some of the IDs in some of the lists. benoit is going to fix it, but has warned everyone that some past work might be lost. I am not sure how anything would be lost, but you might want to save a current version on your sandbox just in case. I didn't want something unexpected to happen to the Victoria list midway through your improvements. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
How nice of you! Yes, I'll do that! I'll save a copy to my sandbox right now - finish something I'm working on and then engage in the discussion. I was just about to go and find listed items with articles in a bit - so glad you caught me.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh my, I'm so glad you gave me a heads up! It sounds like the next step is technical - and like it's best for me to wait in the wings until the consolidation and re-synching of IDs is worked out (I saw a number of issues, too, but also know it get's a bit dicey to merge the info). In the meantime I can work on the stubs I created (and I found a backdoor by getting cache to get the Canadian site info). I'll check back from time to time and if there's something you think I could help with, let me know. Much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Some bubble tea for you!
Thank you so much for working on my userpage, it looks fantastic. I suddenly remembered what I did. Maybe I have Alzheimer, hehehe :D RexRowan (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure! I totally know how that goes. When I get frustrated the world is black and white - no shades of gray. I was hoping by reminding you of the great things that you've done -- it would at the very least make you feel better about the good things you've done. I still have a few more things to do, but I'm almost done.
I know if you decide to stay that you'll make it your own - but I thought right now it could be like a little scrapbook of images and reminders (just the kind of think I like to do when I'm Gramma Carole)!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much Carole, really appreciate all the little things you did for me. It's like you can read me inside out! :D --RexRowan (talk) 15:31, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, I suggest you just revert and ignore if you get any more of this stuff - and if you want your talk page temporarily protected to keep him away, just let me know. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm really glad you are helping Weglinde with the Christopher Whall articles. There is a long list of stained Glass artists that could be expanded! If you've got the time and energy.... I'm a bit preoccupied with architecture, so I can't see myself getting around to all those biographies. Amandajm (talk) 14:04, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Just looking at the Lead came article. It's coming on. Some suggestions:
Rearrange the first gallery so that the table is the second pic, the detail of laying out the glass on the cartoon is third, and last, the leading up. And expand the captions to describe what's happening in each pic. Done
Next gallery.
The lead in the Canterbury window is entirely late 20th century restoration. It also shows the rods, which you could mention since you've mentioned the problem of structural failure. I took that pic specifically to demonstrate good new leading, support, and the method of tying the lead to the rods. Done added comment, but you may wish to reword
With the other two windows, It would be good to see if you can locate a window that that appears to have retained its original lead. Some of the windows at York Minster, as far as I know, fit that category, but I don't know whether there are small details on Wiki Commons. CH response I'm not sure what to look for - if you can describe if for me that would help
Your No 3 is a post Restoration job, made up of salvaged bits and pieces. Done - added comment
Next Gallery. It would be good to get a third pic, to complete the set, so I'll keep my eyes open. - cool
The side pics. They don't go together at all. I love the intro pic. I like the yellow lamp shade with the intro pic. The pic with the the caption about drapery glass is a serious distraction because it's right off topic. --CH responsepersonally, I like the one with the drapery glass, because it shows the alternate method of copper foil. (Originally this article had been titled something like "Lead came and copper foil glasswork". I moved it down to that section - and added more to the caption. See what you think. CH update I found a replacement you may like better. See what you think, it's in the copper foil section
I think one tiffany lamp is enough, and the yellow one is great! - cool
Why don't you scrap the Andelys pic and search through several hundred until you find one that's just the right size and shape to look stunning? I know this sounds tiresome, but I do it all the time, and photoshop pics if the size, shape, angle or black border isn't right. if you haven't got the facility to do that, then you can drop pics on my page and I'll adjust them. - CH response I removed that image, but it sounds like we're looking for two completely different things - I was trying to show a range of styles and provide enough detail to get in close to see the came glasswork. I'll try and find another image - maybe a Frank Lloyd Wright image, but it may be that you want to add something that you like betterCH update See what you think of the additons.
I utterly detest that window at St Martin's in the Fields. The artist simply ignored everything about the window's setting. A window ought to represent the artist's response to the building that it was designed for, in this case a building that is of consistent style in every detail. There is no reason why a Baroque building ought not be enhanced by a piece of totally modern artwork, but the artwork needs to respect some of the inherent qualities of Baroque. And I have to look at it, every time I go there for a concert. Grumble, Grumble! CH response Ok, I'll look for another one - I was trying to show a range of works, including something more modern, let me see what I can find
But that doesn't mean it oughtn't be in the article. However, I believe that it's constructed of steel, not lead, so maybe it ought to go! CH response my thought is that if it represents another type of came metal - maybe it should stay and I find info about steel came, but I'm not sure if you're talking about Andelys or another one
One of the best stained glass firms was Lyon and Cottier, in Australia. There is an article on Daniel Cottier. John Lamb Lyon ran the business in Australia, and two designers, Wells and Gow designed the windows... and they are stunning. They are also extremely well made. There's one window, of Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well, which is just loved by everyone who ever sees it. Unfortunately I don't know much about John Lyon and nothing at all about Wells, and Gow. I do know where their cutting table, kiln and tools are. This is Kevin Little and this is Philip Handel. Unfortunately Philip has retired, and Kevin probably won't be far behind him. This window of Philip's is really rather good. CH response Ok, I'll go take a look. It sounds like you're suggesting that as a source of examples CH update Ok, there's a Lyon and Cottier as the main image now - beautiful!
Ok, I've finished making the changes. Yep, I know it can take away to grab images - I think I spent four hours looking for images when I reworked the article, but I was looking for close-ups and actual work in progress to augment was already in the article. This was fun and I like the result - see what you think. Feel free to swap out images, modify the captions. You sound like an expert!!! And because of that I especially appreciate your comments!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow, that Lyon and Cottier window is rather lovely. But I can't help thinking it's a bit big, because it pushes everything else down You could whack it on the Daniel Cottier page instead.
I think that the galleries are looking good. It is rather fun looking through all the windows, if you've got time! i notice you have my pic of Limoges Railway Station as well. That's nice! I try to take some photos of glass everywhere I go. If you keep your eye on what the regulars upload on Commons, you know where everyone has been for their holidays!
Those panels by Theo van Doesburg are really useful. He was such a creative artist. He dabbled in everything- portraiture, cartoons, buildings, book covers, you name it! We were very lucky a few years ago to be in London just when the Tate Modern had a large exhibition "Van Doesburg and de Stijl". My son was in his second-last year at High School, and studying Art. It was really solid introduction to the foundations of 20th century art.
Sounds good! I added the main image to the Daniel Cottier article. I kind of like it on the Came glasswork page. Yep, I've spent hours going over images already for this article - I think it's good enough for now. Feel free to change the main image though - and otherwise I may come back to it later. Hope you're having a good snooze!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:06, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Ah I see, Aymé, Joyeux and Barrière have gone from stubs to footnotes - the problem is none of the 3 were instructors at the school.Also I believe they are notable enough for their own articles, the first 2 certainly. Maybe this isn't a good idea? :) In ictu oculi (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
"French artists who were teachers at school and other art schools in the south of Vietnam include several winners of the Prix d'Indochine and other teachers such as Joseph Inguimberty, the woman painter Alix Aymé (Alix de Fautereau-Vassel, 1894-1989) and Tardieu's predecessor in Vietnam as pioneer of art education, André Joyeux founder in 1913 of the first art school, in Saigon, which in 1971 was merged with Ho Chi Minh City Fine Arts University. As well as lesser known artists such as Georges Barrière."
I thought that meant: French artists who were teachers at school and other art schools in the south of Vietnam include several winners of the Prix d'Indochine taught at the school or other schools.
and the other teachers taught at École des Beaux-Arts de l'Indochine. It hadn't occured to me that it was a sentence mentioning other people (not affiliated with the school) who were teachers somewhere other than the school.
Now, we need to figure out what to do about notability for Alix Aymé and Georges Barrière. I'm just not getting how either of them are WP:Notability, but I could be missing something here. Are they referenced from other articles, for instance?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:45, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
It's not the length that's the important thing, it's the notability. How are they notable? That's a key aspect that's got to get worked out. Otherwise, you'll put a lot of work into something that will be deleted - and that would just be a shame!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:59, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks that looks lovely! I've been eating Thai today - so I'm in an eastern cuisine frame of mind! Looks lovely, thanks. I hope you're having a wonderful day, too.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:39, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if you're interested, but I brought back the User:CaroleHenson/Autism_Cymru article. I had actually fixed it, so it didn't need to be deleted. But, it could use a bit of expansion - and then we could put it back in article space. Are you interested?--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Of course! I deleted it not because it's not good but because I was afraid my rewording might not meet the standard and get Wikipedia in trouble. I think it's a good idea to put it under a user space and then go live when finished! I will see what I can find. In the meanwhile, smile! :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 15:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Maybe we could add a section in this article for the moment on: Holly's Ball and then see if along the way there's enough information to warrant an article on Holly. Taking a quick look I didn't see her last name, but it would likely pop up.
Are you interested in looking at what you can find for User:CaroleHenson/Autism_Cymru - like any books, newspaper articles, or other reliable sources?
I got the newly added information from their Facebook page, I know it's not a reliable source, will try to find other sources for them. Also, I was expressing my humour on my page :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 16:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Autism Cymru
Using Worm's list as a template here are some items for this article to explore:
Topics to write about:
History of the organization, when was it founded? what was it's chief purpose then? has that changed over time? what are they doing now?
How do they interact with the community: conduct awareness events? legislation? research? other?
What are some of their key activities or events - that warrant their own section, if any?
Add an infobox - I recommend {{Infobox non-profit}}. Don't forget to include location information!
Find some free images of the organization or one of it's events. Checking out commons or flickr (looking for CC-BY-SA I don't know what this means but if it indicates public domain or free use, I left it in) might work. Another option is to take a photograph yourself - if they're not to far - or email the organization and see if they have one they'd like to share, understanding it will be in the public domain.
Your minimum character count is 1500, that'll allow you to get a WP:DYK, but I'm sure you can do better than that.
Sources: Focus on reliable sources, such as newspapers and books primarily, before moving on to other websites.
The lead - should be written once you've got your head around the rest of the article. It's meant to be the summary of the article, so you do end up repeating yourself from elsewhere.
I tweaked the second external link to show you how you can show the label and not the bare link. You just need to put the bare link and the label within a single bracket - with the http:// url first + label.
Worm made a great list - so I modified it for this article. There may be a additional items or topics that you think should be included, like Holly's ball. Am I missing anything?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:59, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, cool! I just noticed your name display changed! I like it. If I could figure out how to do it in blue, I'd change mine. Well I think I'll try and find a font color list. Very cool!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:12, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I got the color - but have a hang up on the date/time stamp with an extra display of my name! Do you type in --~~~~ after your name signature, or something else to get the date/time stamp?--CaroleHensonCaroleHenson (talk) 17:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
They say that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". I am proud that you find my work so helpful :) If there's anything more I can do to help, please do let me know. If you haven't gone for Did You Know before, let me know before you put something live and I can take you through it :) WormTT(talk) 08:51, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, I am very happy today as I traced my family name back and found all my possible cousins in China and Japan. This is my ancestral name Yíng (Chinese surname). :D The article of Autism Cymru has pretty much got all the necessary content. I have use a lot of my own words, also rephrased some sentences to make sense but still need rewording to fit copyright criteria I think. If it can pass the copyright test then all it needs is a logo. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 14:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow, it looks like you have added a lot of great content to the article! It really gives a good well-rounded idea of what the organization does and why it was founded! Great job!
One thing that would be very helpful is to put the items from the bibliography section into inline citations. You did a wonderful job formatting the information. If you could copy the source information in the bibliography section into the particular places that they belong, then the article will be properly cited - and I can check for any potential copyright issues.
I don't understand why many Google books don't show page numbers. The content is mainly from 3 different website: politics.co.uk/Autism Initiatives Wales/AWARES. Does it look ok now? --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 15:37, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Regarding page numbers in Google books - sometimes there's not a page number, but there's a PT (I think this means part or section) - and when a page number isn't available, I enter the PT number. I tried to find an example, though, and I couldn't find a google books example in your article but it's in the beginning of the URL string just after the (book) id. Like http://books.google.com/books?id=95hztKqwDxEC&pg=PA80 - the page is 80, but if it said &pg=PT114, then I use "p. PT 114".
I've added citation needed tags where there are no citations. They're only needed in the introduction section if they cite information that is not in the body of the article, just in the introduction, or lede (lead). Done
Question for you: You have such wonderful books listed in the Bibliography, but I only see the first book used as a citation. Are they sources that you used to gather information about Autism Cymru - or are they "Further reading" for individuals who would like to delve further into the topic?
Is it possible for you to format the web page citations for instance, the formula is basically: :[ <http url> + space + title. + ] + publisher of the page (generally up at the top of the page) + Retrieved + today's date.
There were several citations that had the same url - so I just used the one that had already been named and looked complete: <ref name=Politics/> where there was only partial info and needed to be rolled up with the other uses of the politics source.
So putting the last two bullets together, this is a good example of a completed initial citation where there are multiple uses of the same source: <ref name=Politics>[http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/autism-cymru/ ''Autism Cymru''.] Politics.co.uk Retrieved 7 September 2012.</ref>
Note: Generally the publisher name is not an addres, but a company or non-profit or other name. In this case, this is correct: Politics.co.uk--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:06, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
I marked insertion of citations as Done - citation info and consolidating multiple citations to do. The multiple citation part is really easy when you get the hang of it. Like the "Politics" example above where the ref name is established: After that all you need to have at each spot for the citation is the ref name followed by a /. So for the politics citations it's <ref name=Politics/>.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much! I am learning everyday! You are very patient with me so I am very lucky! I found some information from a few of the books and NAS documents, the rest are related but with either repeated information or simply mentioned the organization. I can created a further ready list to separate them. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 16:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, it's looking really good and after a bit of copyediting I will move it into article space.
Kudos!
You did a great job at picking out the most important, salient points from: Autism Cymru's site
You've got really great "Further reading" items
Great job identifying the extent of their outreach for community services through partnership with Autism Initiatives and C-Saw and through AWARES!
A couple of tips. All these tweaks are Done. Just listed these for future use
Regarding use of source material, you've done a good job in many cases so far, a couple of little tricks (which I already edited for):
Intro: If there is a number of things in a sentence that just need to be put into the article, there's no way to reword them, switch the order up. So "Cardiff, Wrexham, and Aberystwyth", which was in alpha order previously and in the source.
Intro: This part of a sentence I just put in quotes rather than moving Wales to the end of the sentence: "to improve the lives of people in Wales with an autistic spectrum disorder and their families." You don't want to do that a lot - but I think calling out the purpose - in their own words is a good thing and it doesn't get watered down through rewording.
If you have a list of items all from the same source, you can group them together, add an intro line, and then put the citation at the end of the intro line that says something like "The list of services from ... is:". Then you don't have to put them at each row and the reader knows ahead of time that they all come from the same place. Like the use of quotations, this should be used sparingly, but sometimes it just makes it a lot easier for the reader to group things together with bullets.
I removed red links for people where there wasn't one WP article that mentioned them. Another test is are they written about in published books, other than their own. Leaving red links in does 2 things, I think: 1) its a bit distracting and serves no purpose and 2) encourages someone to start an article that will not likely pass the notability test - which then was a wasted effort for them.
Somethings to do
Of the items here, this is the only one I think is a must-do: Review the places where AWARES is cited (this particular link / there are two - they seem to be pretty near copyright infringement and very loose WP:Close paraphrasing. Particularly the 1st sentence of each paragraph in the "History" section.
I think we need to get more secondary sources that are from someone not affiliated with Autism Cymru (i.e., other than published books by Feinstein, Plimley, Morgan). I'll work on that a bit. I searched through all the books - and you did a great job of what could be captured there. I found one article in the Archived news. You may want to check those out through this queury.
The activities for community services through partnership with Autism Initiatives and C-Saw and through AWARES are incredible! I'm just wondering how much direct involvement or collaboration is given by Autism Cymru to provide those services. Is there another source for information about that? Or, did I miss something in the cited sources (I may have)? The source says that they've partnered on it - but I wasn't sure how much.
Ok. It's really coming along! Much farther than I would have anticipated. A potential DYK (Did you know) - could be: "Did you know that Autism Cymru may have developed the first autism online community?" We'd need to verify that (since the BBC source was from 2005) - or you may have another interesting factoid - but this is really good! I like it! As soon as the bullet about review of the AWARES info is done, I think we can move it to article space.
Wow, I am so amazed on what you have done with the article! Seriously, the way you tweaked and grouped information is very professional! I adore everything you do! :D RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 10:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
I am very grateful Carole, because I always feared writing articles, when I was in university, I only get excited when I have multiple choices tests, I did pass my assignments but they looked pretty boring and mechanic, most of the time we had practicals in the lab. The assignments are based on our finding in the experiments anyway, I remember I just filled our findings, do some calculations, make some charts and then do a little analysis of the results and then that's finished. Wikipedia really opened my eyes, the articles all look like the text books I used to read instead of the petty little papers I wrote. I wrote more articles in one month than I did in an entire university year! And the most exciting thing is I am breaking my fear and getting better at it because of someone like you! I feel I am overcoming one of my biggest shortcomings and becoming a better person, all because of your patient and selfless efforts. For everything you did for me, I am sincerely humbled! --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 11:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow! That's so lovely! Isn't it funny how life goes? Nearly everything I'm good at now is because it was a significant deficiency in the past - and I just learned tools to focus and get through it. One of my worst was reading comprehension - I could read something dozens of times and not remember one fact from what I'd read. It's amazing what we can do when we put our minds to it. Congratulations for all you've done here so far! That sounds wonderful and I'm so happy to have you as a friend here. You're a very thoughtful and considerate person.--CaroleHenson (talk) 11:30, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much Carole! Managers manage and leaders inspire, I think you are a natural leader! I inserted some other sources and broke the AWARES sections down a little. Hope it helps. Yes, the history part need rewriting. I think your idea for DYK is great! They also started the concept of national autism strategy. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 12:36, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
I think I'm seeing what the issue is of rewriting the history section so that it's not in the same order, making the same points and not sounding like the author's voice: Because it's historical info - and there's not a lot of it - there's only so many ways to write something that flows chronologically. So, I have a couple of thoughts:
move away from telling the information chronologically and create a summary of the work they've done since they've started, focusing on what things they've done to meet their vision and mission statement.
get more information - for instance there's this article that gives more information about them in their initial years.
another way to get new information in there is to answer some who? what? when? why? how? questions:
who started the organization? what was their driving force? was it just one person or several people?
what about the way they worked made them successful at launching the 1st national autism initiative by a government?
when they rolled out training to 500 schools - how did they do that? what was the goal? are there measurable results?
is there more information about the emergency services work they've done
Right now, I think the verbiage is still too close to the information from the AWARes site - but I bet taking one of these approaches will help. What do you think?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Another tips is to break all the information into an outline with just key works - then see how you want to arrange it for the section. For instance, once you get rid of a lot of filler words and just get to some of the main points, it's easier to see patterns and reword in a completely different way.
set up in 2001
initiatives accomplished through AC's leadership and collaboration
1st government to establish a national initiative for autism
first named professional chair in autism
Wales Autism Research Center (WARC)
Cardiff University
funding
brought in over £12 million in the past few years
result of the 2 initiatives
new and ring-fenced (ongoing?)
goes to local infrastructure
services
research
Collaborate with Celtic Nations Autism Partnership
partners Scottish Autism, Autism Northern Ireland and the Irish Society for Autism
foreign organizations, like Autism-Europe
Other initiatives
Wales Autism International Conference in Cardiff - since 2004
annual AWARes on-line conference for autism - since 2006
trained to more than 500 schools
Deis Cyfle project
2009-12
European-funded
proovides educatoin and employment opportunities
served over 5,700 people across Wales and Ireland.
Attention Card
Working with Welsh emergency services
card used to identify individuals on the autism spectrum
improve communication
was implemented by all four Welsh Police Forces
will expand into other emergency services during 2012.
Then, it might be easier to identify where it's good to ask who, what, when, where, why questions to get more info + the items can be rearranged into groupings that make sense to you to be reworded. Hopefully totally getting away from the author's choice of connecting words helps you frame the sentences in your own words - in a different way. I hope this helps.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, one more idea
Autism Cymru takes the view that each person with an autistic spectrum disorder in Wales should receive a service appropriate to their assessed needs, whatever their age and wherever they live. In order to achieve this Autism Cymru actively promotes at both national and local levels the practice of strategic, collaborative, multidisciplinary partnerships and highly focused co-ordination of services to people with autistic spectrum disorders and their families.
It seems like AC's vision is
ensuring people get the right services to meet their needs
promote awareness at local and national level
strategic thinking
collaborative
multidisciplinary partners
coordination of services.
perhaps looking at these items might help figure out a way to bundle them. It's tricky because you cannot come to your own conclusions - it just might help you form sentences based on the info from the sources. For example, you could group a paragraph of items that relate to how they are spreading awareness (government national initiative, AWARes, girl's balls...) How they are working collaboratively with the community... and so on.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, I'm thinking about maybe we can use my experience to write a book. I can provide the raw data in my own words and you can reword it however you can. It'd be a short book I think, basically demonstrate the wiring or logic of my mind because I think I am a very typical specimen and it's my duty to speak for those who couldn't. I wish to remain anonymous and don't want any money. I wish the income however big or small goes to help you with the pain you are suffering. There is a publisher specialize in this area called Jessica Kingsley Publishers which accept script from new authors which is good news. If we can create content that interest them then we can get a book deal. My friend Rudy Simone has publish a few books with them and got translated in many languages too, so it's possible. Maybe we can call it 'The World According to Rex'? :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 19:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
It's an interesting concept. Would some of it be based upon what you've already wrote (which I still have by the way saved in Word). What would be some of your key messages that you'd like to discuss?--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Some of it yes, I am thinking about using real data under a false name so nobody gets hurt. It will be a demonstration of my brain circus. How I see the world, how it is different from the norm, why it cause problems at times and whether the logic is wrong or legit alternative point of view.
The book can be broken down into different sections, about an autistic person's outlook on several fundamental issues, such as socialization, politics, psychology, economy, war, science and other topics. Pretty much most of it is going to be philosophical stuff. An anatomy of my brain's hidden dimensions. I don't know whether you've read Sophie's World. I haven't but always wanted to. It's like looking at the world through an autistic eye. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 09:06, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
better check for copyright issues and close paraphrasing
get my mind in synch (I get overwhelmed by too much info - very quickly - and although this takes time, it helps me organize so I can think more clearly)
keep me from doing the same exercise again - now I will know what's been checked and what doesn't need to be rechecked
ensure the right citations stay with their cited info - same thing, so I don't have to recheck again
It's kind of scarey to get into my mind - especially with all the bits and bytes - but this already makes me so much calmer to know I can check off what's been looked at. (It's what I do in my mind anyway, but I swirl around it many times if I forget I've already checked it - or am not sure how much I checked and where the info came from).
It might not be helpful to you - because it's the way my mind operates, but I hope it's illustrative of how to ensure that information is not written using the same terms, it's regathered an packaged to meet the needs of this article, and how to ensure that we're definitely rewriting the material - not just changing a few words here and there. Make sense?--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
Now that we've got oodles of great content and sources - we can take it a little slower to cross-check we've got the citations in the right places and have reworded content sufficiently.
In the history section - I think I've repositioned the two citations appropriately, but it looks like there are two spots where citations are needed. Do you mind taking a look at that?
If you'd like to tackle the last paragraph to double-check that the verbiage is adequately reworded and that the right sources are at the right spots - that would be great! Then, we'll have the history section done!--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great! Now in the last paragraph - the second part of the first sentence - the speakers are listed in the same order that they are in the article: Professor Christopher Gillberg, Dr Tony Attwood, Professor Digby Tantam and Dr Rita Jordan.
Do you mind changing the order? Sometimes what I do is put them in alpha order by their last names. It does matter how you do it, though, just it's not worked exactly as it is in the article.
Of course, I'm on to it. a little fun about how our brain works:
A bat and ball cost a dollar and ten cents. The bat costs a dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?
In a lake, there is a patch of lily pads. Every day, the patch doubles in size. If it takes 48 days for the patch to cover the entire lake, how long would it take for the patch to cover half of the lake?
Ok, I keep circling on the first one - I keep thinking that the bat should be a dollar - but that doesn't make sense - cause the ball would then be 10 cents and 10 cents plus one dollar is 1 dollar and 10 cents. If the ball is free, then the total cost is 1 dollar. I can't work that out. What's the trick?
It seems like it would take 47 days for the patch to cover half of the lake (since it will double in size to the full lake in one day). Is that right?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Well done Carole, I fell on both of them and had to literately taking out my paper and pen to work them out, it's a psychological trick of the mind, our mind tend to seek short cuts in problem solving.
Ok, the first one. I assumed Bat=X and Ball=Y. Then I layed two simple equations: X+Y=1.10 & X=Y+1, then I brought the second one into the first one which turned out to be (Y+1)+Y=1.10, then I got 2Y=0.10, then Y=0.05, so X=0.05+1=1.05
I think I have no self esteem and always doubt my behaviours due to my autism, which makes me check myself often because I automatically think I must be wrong because of my handicap. Sometimes I can not thank people enough or apologize enough, hehehe. Ok, I thought I'd lay out the maths on how I got the second one: Assume the pond as X. 2^48=X, which means 2's 48 times powered fulfill X. Then half the pond would be X/2, so divide 2 by both sides which is 2^48/2=X/2, then 2^(48-1)=X/2, which means at day 47 the function fulfills half X. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 15:20, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
What is the difference between Dame Stephenie Shirley's role as a patron and that of Lord Dafydd Wigley? Is it that Dame Shirley provided the start up funds and since then Lord Wigley is the patron? Or would both of them be considered patrons?--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:02, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
The only two sections remaining to be checked are this one and education. I'm going to reword this section a bit.
Do you mind checking the education section to ensure 1) the citations are in the right places and 2) that the content is sufficiently reworded (no copy/paste or close paraphrasing)?--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:17, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
There was a repeat about conferences so I moved the section into history section and scrambled the name order. I rewroded the rest, hope it's ok. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 15:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it's looking pretty good! I'll take a look at the changes to the education section, then I'll run the edit program and after than I think we're ready to move it into article space. Yeah!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:53, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
I had to remove a piece about Gray's organization - because it was word-for-word what came from the source - people can read up about her anyway by going to the source. I ran the editor and it didn't find anything, so I'll go ahead and move the page into article space. YEAH!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great! Regarding your edit, I made a copy edit to what you added so that the part about funding is reworded a bit.
You've made incredible progress: you're using sources from books, identifying reliable sources, finding good secondary sources and using care in how much primary sources are used. That's great!
One thing, I think that could be worked on though is paraphrasing. What do you think about me setting up a couple of exercises to work on in user space? If so, do you have a topic that sounds interesting to you - so that it would be working towards adding a bit to an existing article or for a new article?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, cool! you got the logo from the organization! From the way that the file info is worded it sounds like you got permission to use the logo here, but folks should check with the organization for other uses. I think that's Fair Use and maybe the file should be flagged with fair use. Do you know about that?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:34, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
I think this template should be added to the file info:
{{Non-free use rationale
| Description =
| Source =
| Article =
| Portion =
| Low resolution =
| Purpose =
| Replaceability =
| Other information =
}}--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
--Or, maybe you've got it covered - I don't know. In commons I think that there's a fair use message that is visible and I wondered if there needs to be a message - but clearly I'm over my head with this one. Love the logo!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
I remember it in my training about copyright, it is quite complicated. Major journals all have copyright lawyers working in their team. It's a small logo so think it's a fair use. Maybe we can let Worm have a check tomorrow too. I think maybe I can work on close paraphrasing with my User:RexRowan/Turnbull Thomson Park article. I think I pretty much got all the information covered and reworded but not sure if it can pass the copyright test by the robot. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 16:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, that sounds good - having Worm check out the fair use / copyright issue for the logo.
Awesome! I love nature, those pictures and animals make me happy! :D Worm gave me two sources sources [12][13] which give some history of the park, the biodiversity part, I did some research and extracted the main information about the location and relation with humans so they are not a big problem I think. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 17:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I just caught the message before the last one. I'll take a look at the links and the article in the morning (my morning - I think 7-9 hours after yours).--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello, Thank you for the compliment; you have done well to improve the article so much. Even among other Cornish parishes it is fairly obscure and now it has a detailed article. There used to be a railway line through it from Tresmeer to Otterham Station (until the mid 1960s) so I may add that.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! That sounds like a good idea!
I received that from SuggestBot as an article to expand. If there are others that you think would be good to expand, I'd be happy to give it a shot.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
There are two articles about parishes with larger populations which do not conform very well to the usual style for that kind of article. St Merryn (only has a few references) and St Agnes, Cornwall: if you can do anything to improve those articles it would be very useful.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
St Buryan might be a better example though the various articles on places and civil parishes are not very consistent. Some of them like St Buryan and Constantine, Kerrier, are quite good articles while some particularly for the smaller places may only have two paragraphs. The articles for the parishes of Penwith are among the better ones and Bodmin and Launceston, Cornwall, are fairly good. Neither St Agnes nor St Merryn are regarded as towns. Please also see this guideline. This will show links to various articles about Cornwall:
Ok, thanks! Well, I think I've done what I can on the St Merryn article - aside from the geology question that I posted to the person you mentioned - and the questions about the mysterious Merryn on the talk page.
I'll work on St Agnes next - sorry for my Americanized (broad) use of the word town - I was just meaning not a city. I follow whatever descriptions I find for a place (parish, village, etc.) when actually writing an article. No worries there.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:06, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Your work on St Merryn looks very good. I have continued the discussion of St Marina but there is no urgency about revising that. Cornwall is rather unusual in describing towns and villages: a place with fewer than a thousand people may be a town, but then St Agnes with more is only a village. There are also villages or hamlets called "--- churchtown" because that is where the parish church is sited. Best wishes.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:06, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I took a look at two cited sentences, compared it to what was in the source, and made some suggestions for the rewrite. One idea is to create a mini-outline. My outline might not be correct, so you may need to modify it based upon what is correct and what you think should go in the article. I'm out of the notes page now and if you'd like me know when you'd like me to take a peak, that would be great!!!
As I mentioned in the notes page - this is something I struggle with every day, how not to work things so that it's just a minor rewording of the sources information.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much Carole for your generous help! I will work it through! I think once it becomes a habit, everything will become a lot easier. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 16:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I saw that you and Worm have been working on it - made changes to the two sentences we were chatting about - and you two seemed to have a lot of good effort into it. Rather than step on any toes, I'll just take a quick peak - but it seems that you're both really engaged in a thorough review of the article's content.
You're doing a great job. I especially appreciate your openness and willingness to dive in and made the articles "museum quality", as you say!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:16, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Yep, great job! It's much tighter. I miss the gallery pictures - but 100% agree that it doesn't further this particular topic - and see why they were removed.
Do you want me to check for any other close-paraphrasing situations - or do you think you and Worm have that well covered? Whatever works for you is fine! I'd rather not step on toes - but am happy to help as a division of labor since Worm did such an excellent job regarding content comments.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:23, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Worm and me are open minded folks, I tried to trim it down without loosing vital information. I think there's a little more work to be done, so feel free to perform brain surgery on me. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 15:26, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I am guessing that the autism-friendly map is a take on "Social stories" - where individuals can review, prior to their visit, where things are located and what they might like to do there. It's a nice thing to do!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:00, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, the second one is nice, too. The society is so good at managing, communicating, etc. autism friendliness - there's actually more content that I was to take from their official site - but there's already so much cited from them already. I need to find more from other parts of the world. I'm very impressed by them, though! It seems the UK is the place to watch for autism friendly awareness and programs!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
You are such a kind person and good mentor, you gave me the guidance and push to write better articles. I don't know why anyone would want to harass you. In China, there was a story about a old farmer saved a frozen snake and fed the snake food till it recovered, and the snake bit the farmer and killed him in return. The story was to describe those ungrateful pests who have lost humanity. This sort of thing tend to happen to kind and caring people unfortunately. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 19:20, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
That's sweet of you! I don't think it really has so much to do with me personally. I was just the one that took on cleaning up the article - anyone who did that would have received the same responses, I think. And, I do have my moments - but I'm glad you see me that way - it's who I intend to be, even when I'm not always quite there. Thanks.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Maurice Ringot
Caroline
Have finished the first of my French re-writes. See what you think. It is certainly an improvement on my first attempt (I hope).
This is the French version and includes some interesting facts about Ringot's movements to Normandie etc.etc. As you will see the article lacks verification tags so it is not clear where the information came from. Anyway I guess if you add my version to the French one then you will have a comprehensive idea of what Ringot was about.
Weglinde (talk) 16:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Weglinde (talk) 16:14, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, yes, it looks like you did a great job. I'm not doing the thorough job I have in the past, but from what I've seen it looks good.
Regarding the French article - yes, it definitely has some nice family and career background - you have so much more in terms of works, of course. The cited references seem mostly unreliable sources. I didn't find anything in books that delved into his life - nor newspapers - but there's a wonderful site that has a lot of his works: Maurice Ringot. I bet by using some of the words from the french article you might be able to find more information about him. It's up to you if you'd like to do that work.
It doesn't look, though, like we can piece together the citations that are in the article - as you say, they're not inline - and there doesn't seem to be enough information there to verify the information anyhow. Great job finding the sources that you did for his work - if I remember correctly that was the issue with the French articles. You've done such an extraordinary job on his works - you may want to consider posting a note on the talk page of the French article in the event someone would like to leverage the hard work you've done! I would say it would be pretty unique that the English article would be the source of information for enhancing an French article. Great work!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:45, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
St Merryn
Thank you very much for the barnstar; it was a lot easier collaborating with you on St Merryn than if I tried to upgrade the St Merryn article myself. I find it much easier to work from information in printed volumes and even after working part of the time on articles about Cornwall for four years there is information that could usefully be added if time was available. I would find it difficult to work from various sources in Google Books &c as you are so capable of doing. I will give the St Merryn article a proper reading tomorrow as the story of the two confused saints may be hard to follow. Ellis does say much the same as Doble but in a short paragraph rather than a whole page of text with citations.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 18:24, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure - great working with you, too! You shine light into the dark corners that I don't even know are there. Sure, sounds good: If you can interject some brevity - all the better!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:42, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I was trying to edit this and it went away.... funny! I took out the "de" when seaching to see if that helps.
"Part of the British Virgin Islands, Necker was named after the 17th century Dutch squadron commander Johannes de Neckere, although it remained uninhabited until the late 20th century." from Daily mail--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
No kidding! The Government of the (US) Virgin Islands was one of my clients and I used to stay on the St Johns - before it was as built up as it is now - and take the ferry into St Thomas for work - and ferry back to St John for the evening. And I'd either stay over the weekend with someone on my staff - or stay by myself and jeep around the island. It was heaven! I wanted to be one of the mainlanders who quit their life and worked in a bookstore or shop on the island.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:05, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
I live on the seaside at the moment, will move next to a mountain at the end of the year. I like peaceful place. The park article is nearly finished, shame not many photos though. Worm is going to do a check before I move it. I saw this in news today and think it's very good [16] --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 17:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, he's adorable! I bet all the responses on Facebook had a lot to do with him getting the modeling job. Wonderful!
Yep, I love peaceful places too - and what's better than seaside or the mountains! Wow, do I miss the sea - the sounds, how nice! I'm glad to hear the park article is nearly done. Great job! I've got one of my grandchildren, the oldest, that I'm going to pick up from school before too long so I'll just be on a bit longer today. For one reason or another she and I haven't gotten together in awhile, so it will be really good for her and I to have time today and an overnight visit!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:07, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Hey, i think we got off to a bad start the other day. I'm a bit direct in certain aspects so please don't assume i have anything against your work (i'm dyslexic myself) and i do try to be neutral. Have this dove anyway and remember to feed it, these things don't last long...
Jenova20 has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!
Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!
Now off on holiday so putting away my lap-top in favour of a bucket and spade.
Thought I should let you know that apart from Maurice Ringot, I have looked again at Alfred Alphonse Bottiau and Robert Coin and in both cases added extra text and verifications. I would be grateful if you could cast your "eagle eye" over what I have done and I have little doubt that you will find several things to tweak and correct. When you find nothing to correct will, I suspect, be the day that I should start to worry. Only joking. You have been an excellent teacher and as you warned me earlier on would be the case, when I now look at my original efforts they were pretty poor!
I was actually commenting on my original works - not yours - and still find when I do my own writing I miss a lot of very obvious things in copyediting my own works.
I'm glad you've made such progress - you really have a great collection of articles you've worked on! Have fun with the bucket and spade!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
St Agnes
Hello, I am sorry you have lost some work because of my last edit. One thing that needs amending is the Renaissance section which should have === === and a link to Mawla. There is also a separate article on Mount Hawke so I wonder whether some information might belong there. You are doing a very thorough job on St Agnes. I will leave it alone till tomorrow. Best wishes.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 17:59, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, thanks! That's ok - I had been tinkering around with the Roman section for several tries to get a ref name that the program would accept and just assumed that I created my own edit conflicts. Since that's so far been 99% of the time I get a conflict edit, I assumed that's what happened. I'll know better next time.
Yep, I have been collecting the info so far and thought I'd go back and add the links when I got more content so that I only add the link for a place at the first use a reader would come across. Regarding where the info should be placed, well I've wondered about that - since this article is about the St Agnes village AND parish - my search criteria has been the St Agnes Parish. Stuff can definitely be moved around to whereever you think is most appropriate once it's gathered. That will be easy. It's just been a bit painstaking to id the info - and try not to have too much duplication (i.e., places where I grouped things under "search results").
It's definitely taking much longer than I'd expected - but it will be interesting - I think, especially if I can find more background info about the excavations themselves and comments from archaeologists or geolists about the findings. Onward!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
The existence of more than one settlement in the same parish happens all over Cornwall and there is no rule about where information should go. The smaller settlements have no boundaries anyway; it is only with civil parishes like St Agnes or ecclesiastical parishes like Mount Hawke that boundaries exist and most maps would not show the boundaries so it is hard to work to them. Cornwall has so many very small settlements that some do not yet have WP articles. This list of Cornwall stubs gives some idea of the problem. Don't worry too much about getting information into the right article. It looks as if St Agnes will be a longish project.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, sounds good! I'm not too worried about it - I'm a one-step-at-a-time kinda girl. Since you're the expert here, whatever works for you, works for me.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:53, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, we are, like our usual selves, hehehe. My friend is an illustrator with dyslexia, she asked me after she drew the picture then what and I said how about we write a petition to send to the UN General, then she got on with it. She decided to draw the flag and I will write a petition. Autistic people don't quite know what social hierarchy is so we do whatever we think makes sense to us, it is a very unique and hilarious quality, hehehe. I read this article and found out the first gay flag was hand dyed at the parade too. I think you have a good idea, I will ask around when my friend is done with the illustration. Thank you for helping us! :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 14:42, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I could be a detective, hehehe. You have a very symmetrical facial structure, which in the fashion industry makeup artists call a constructable face. I would guessed you were a fashion model rather a proofreader! I am into visual arts, be it painting or photography. I volunteered to style my friend Rudy Simone for a photoshoot for the Asperger Unite magazine published by the National Autistic Society worldwide. I sent the editor my portfolio, he actually reserved a space for me in the magazine whenever I get the photo done. Cool huh? :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 20:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Very cool! I'd love to hear how that goes!
The picture is 2 years old - I haven't looked at it in awhile - I was thinking: why is my face so pink? I must have been blushing or warm. Why are my lips such skinny lines? Why to I look like I'm looking off into nothing?--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
A perfect pose is to show 3/4 of your face, the looking into distance pose is classic in fashion photography. But staring right into the camera is most used in portraiture but preferably in an angle. The lips can be made fuller by using a few small tricks. The light should not be placed on top of the model's head but a soft light towards the face to light it up. The foundation I personally think matt texture is better than gloss. Lip gloss gives the face a polished look and lip stain a more sneaky natural look. I could use a good model like you. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 20:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow!!! That's very interesting! There's a lot of great detail to take in. I like your use of light - and the many ways you set the mood of the painting. Very coool!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much, I painted this one in 2010, still in my house. I like the Caravaggio style. The locals tend to buy land and seascapes and are not very interested in portraiture so I changed direction and painted more local landscapes, I managed to sell some locally and to Sweden and Russia. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 20:50, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I would like to style you myself if I lived next door but it's not possible so I'm sending these fun videos to you from Bobbie Brown [17]. I read her book,[18], it was inspirational and I actually know what to look out for when reading fashion magazines and makeup counter. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 10:09, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! I really like your paintings - there's a very interesting range of subjects, beautiful use of color and light! There's a kind of ethereal quality to many of the works.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:19, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much Carole, you are always very kind to me! :D If you lived near I'd give you some, my neighbours have got many of them from me for free. I even drew their cats and dogs, hehehe. By the way, I wanted to write about a special bus line here kind of like a taxi service where you call in and book it and the bus will pick you up. It's for old people in rural areas. But I'm not sure if it's notable enough, what do you think? Here is the website [20] --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 18:04, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Here are the ways I check for notability:
Is it mentioned in another Wikipedia article? If so, that's a good sign and provides articles that you already know you can link to so that it won't be a lonely orphan. ---> In this case, there are no articles that mention that bus.
Are there other articles where it could be inserted, rather than adding a new article?
Well, there's Traveline Cymru, which might (I haven't read closely enough to be sure) that could be a good place to put info about the bus.
Other potential article topics might be the organisations at the bottom of this about us page
There do seem to be articles (BBC, for instance) and other secondary sources for information for a new article or for inclusion in an existing article.
Oh, missed books - is it mentioned in books - there are 3 sources, it seems for information. So, that's good.
The one bonus about putting it in an existing article is that it is more likely to be seen by other people looking for information about transportation in general. Although you could certainly have a separate article + have information in the transportation related articles as well.
I think it's a bit sketchy whether it warrants a separate article, but I definitely think you should write up about it either for the Traveline Cymru or another article -- or for it's own article.
Yeah, I like it a lot! The park is a protected place, I'm thinking adding biodiversity section in it. People say they had SAS soldier turn up in front of their house and tell them not to tell, I think they play paintball games in there with the SBS guys, hehehe. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 09:51, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Trevithick Society
Hello again, I am sorry you have lost some work again. I should have checked the history to see who had edited the article. I don't know whether you are working in Internet Explorer as I do but there is a way of saving your own work if you don't save it but just go down to the very bottom of the display and copy all the text which has your changes in it and then just save it somewhere else like your sandbox so that you can work on introducing those changes later.
I have revised the Mithian article so the pictures don't go beyond the end of the text. However there is a problem with the references and I can't see why the display has gone wrong.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:33, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
I know. I'm not sure what I did - but I know what I was trying to do - check to see if anyone made changes or if I created my own edit conflict. If I've been working on something for awhile, preview it, edit it again, etc. I made my own edit conflicts some how. That's what I thought happened again - until I realized I had somehow backed out of the edit window at the bottom and just had the latest saved edits - none of mine. I used to save whatever I edited to an Ascii file everytime before I hit save - I may need to go back to doing that for the longer edits. I should have put in use on, too - it has been so quiet that I forgot that in other parts of the world people are waking up!
Luckily I had the pages I looked at for links my the history so I could just use the back button to get the ones I wasn't sure about - and I think I caught most of my edits. Off to bed. Thanks for your help! You give very thoughtful, helpful suggestions.--CaroleHenson (talk) 09:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
St Agnes again: the three Methodist denominations with chapels there united into a single Methodist Church of Great Britain in 1932 so some kind of update is needed. Many of the Methodist chapels of Cornwall belonged to the Bible Christian sect of Methodism until 1901 when the Bible Christians joined the Methodist New Connexion and another Methodist sect to form the United Methodist Church. If you google search for "explore+britain+chiverton" you may get an entry for Chiverton Cross which shows the civil parish. Youlstone in Treneglos is really in Warbstow (but our source says Treneglos). Best wishes.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Methodist denominations, let me see if I have this right:
Bible Christian Church + United Methodist Free Churches + Methodist New Connexion ---> United Methodist Church in 1907
Wesleyan Methodist Church + Primitive Methodist Church + United Methodist Church (1907) ---> Methodist Church of Great Britain (Methodist Union 1932)
United Methodist Church ----> Since it's current church, I'm guess that this has to be the new post 1932 MC of GB church, even though it says "United Methodist
That all looks right; officially the old names would not have been used after the union of 1932though they don't disappear because the name and the date of foundation is very often included in the stonework. The books I have are one about John Wesley's visits to Cornwall and the other a general history of Methodism in Cornwall. These are only going to mention a few of the chapels; when Methodism was at its strongest there were many hundred chapels but large numbers of them have become redundant as there are fewer Methodists and travelling to a larger chapel is much easier. Following up all the chapels in a large parish like St Agnes would be difficult but I will look for any St Agnes information in those two books.
You mentioned you have books on the Methodist faith - do you have citation information for this? It seems like you're keenly interested and aware of this - do you want to take it an run with that piece?
Regarding Chiverton Cross - it seems from Cornwall Council notes that CC is under St Agnes. I never saw a definitive sentence anywhere - it was all in connection with changes to the road. I've updated the article based on the common sense: 1 +1 probably equals 2. Done
No unions of churches have affected them in the UK; Anglican churches have been involved in unions in India and perhaps some other countries. The Roman Catholic Church has not united with any other church in the UK; there have been reunions and also divisions in some other countries.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 12:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, good to know that there are no issues with the other (Anglican / Catholic) denominations! If you can find the info on the Methodist Church, that would be wonderful! I was born into the Methodist faith and had no idea that so much had happened to get to the final church, which I've known as the United Methodist Church.
I think we're good on Chiverton Cross - On the search in the Cornish Council there were a number of documents that referred to it with the St Agnes Parish. The only question I had was if it was on the border of another parish. I've not been able to find a map of the parishes that clearly shows the boundaries. If you find that, that would be wonderful!
I'm going to do some work today on the villages and hamlets. There are some places that are identified as villages - but I'm not sure that's right. So, I'll work on getting that squared away as I add more content to the pages. I am pretty sure that I've located all the articles of St Agnes parish places in Template:St Agnes Parish, Cornwall.--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:40, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Many of the hamlets have only automatically created stubs (due to User:DrBlofeld): it is going to take for ever to alter all the ones which ought not to say "village". I and User:Zangar have done a few already but published population data is mostly at the civil parish level so how do we know how big the settlement is. When there is a "geograph" picture on Commons it is possible to go from the coordinates to OS Get-a-map for a 1:25 000 map. Until more geograph images are added there may not be much more help from that. Occasionally the stub is not even a hamlet but a single house or farm (e.g. Dinnabroad). (FFS)
I don't know if it would be a help, but I could use a find-replace in AWB to:
identify what articles are unexpanded stubs
change the word "village" to something more neutral, like "place"
for contributions by User:DrBlofeld + Category:Villages in Cornwall
I would be able to check each one before "saving" to ensure that it isn't applied to a stub / article that has been worked on. Let me know if that would help. (CH)
There are three parishes at Chiverton Cross; I hope the article can still be understood. User:Zangar is an expert on roads but he has not been editing WP for a while. (FFS)
Oh!!! Ok, it sound like you've made some edits - let me know if you have some specific direction and I'll try and track it down. Whatever you know will help a lot in the search criteria! (CH)
It is interesting to hear of your Methodist background; the United Methodists in the USA must have resulted from a different union. The Methodists in Great Britain and Ireland were very much divided before 1907 but the only Methodist sect not affected by the two reunions was the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Church whose theology was different.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 16:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Ah, that maybe help explains why it's a new concept to me. I've done a lot of family history and never came across the divisions / consolidations on one side of my family that I've found in the more complicated history of The Church of the Brethren. (CH)
I have revised Chiverton Cross, but wonder if it is confusing; without seeing a map at the same time it might puzzle readers. Ideally a date and citn for the redesignation of the eastern part of the B3277 as part of the A390 would be useful. The best map to see the boundaries on would be an Ordnance Survey map, scale 1:25 000; I have used a one inch map from 1961.
It sounds a good idea about the hamlet/village stubs (perhaps "settlement" instead of "place"). What may be a problem is the ones where another editor has decided that "village" is correct and amended the article. It is too late really for this; User:Zangar would probably have understood it better than I do. Now 8.35 pm here; I believe Colorado is 6 or 7 hours behind GMT.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 19:38, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I took a stab at putting in a locator map, grouping the information into sections (not because of volume, but to maybe break it up to ease understanding), and I commented out two items because I think it's a little clearer without them. That could be me, though - it's just a trial to see what you think.
I had to move the picture down (the goofy locator map won't left or right justify - as far as I can tell).
Have added a picture and some more information. The commented out part is hard to understand; maybe the rerouting should just be covered in the A390 road article (until this week that had no citations). The parish boundary must have been fixed more than a thousand years ago (though the St Agnes / Perranzabuloe boundary is recent). Marazanvose is all southeast of the road so in another parish. Blackwater is mainly in St Agnes but has a few buildings in Chacewater parish (another recent parish). The road must have been built long after the parish boundary was fixed: it seems to vary between a few yards to the north, a few yards south, on one side of the road or the other, and in the middle.
Regarding the Cornish "settlements" - I guess it all depends on 1) what you'd rather have the reader see when it's not clear if it's a village or not and 2) where the heaviest volume of discrepancies are / would be. In any event, I would check to see if it looks like it's the short stub format that was implemented or if more content had been added. It's just a though, though.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
It sounds to me as if it would be an improvement but am reluctant to say go ahead with it without consulting other WP Cornwall members. Sadly most of those members are either not active at all or much less involved than in the past. The present situation could stay until an editor decides to improve one or more of those articles; most of them consist of between one and maybe 50 households so perhaps editing effort is best used on parish or village articles.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 11:17, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, yep, there are guidelines in the link I provided you (see that section). There are a number of articles that are very simple and are in fact a great navigation tool to delve into a topic. Sometimes there is some information covered about the bulleted item. See Outline of prehistoric technology that I created awhile ago. In that case there's a formula of
[[ bulleted item ]] — the text about the item
generally there's also a citation for the information. I think an exception to that is if the information is a summary of what's in the article, like what you'd find in the intro section. The wise source of information about outlines is User:The Transhumanist, who helped me out quite a bit on this one to keep my on course.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm going to be tucked away for a little bit - I put an in use tag up on a small article I'm working on - but I'll check back a bit later (hour / couple of hours). Enjoy the day!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I was kind of in a zone! Oh, I see - if it's going to be like the NZ article - it's definitely not an outline. I was thrown off by all of the See also bullets. I bet it's going to be a great article - and I'm very visual, so I love the images of the red kite in particular and the pony.
I wonder if it might be good to put the See also bullets into an outline or a template - where the items are grouped by topics/subject: pollution, sustainability, ecology... and so on. I personally love templates because I think that they make a very easy to read outline of grouped articles. But an outline would be great, too, for the see also info. Let me know what you think.
Sorry Carole, I got distracted as one of my autistic friend wanted me to write some more short articles. I put some stuff on a website so everyone can see, it here: [21]. I am happy either way. I was looking for some evolution information as I think the rest are easy. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 19:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I am so impressed with what you've done! Now everything looks so neat and orderly! Ok, I will tweak the colour a bit and see if you will like it. I can always change it. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 08:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
I see that you're making great strides on the article! It's beginning to take shape.
It's hard to see the lettering for the topics in the drop down lists now, too. Maybe for the moment I'll just return it to a regular background color and see what you think. (I wish I could also remember the color combinations to watch out for - for people who are color blind.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, we should be considerate for others. I am listing all the sources in the further reading part, as I needed to put them together for the evolution part, then I will move some of them to the reference section. The rest is pretty much listing facts. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 14:53, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Not fair! There are other articles with lists! Sorry, my kids were playing lego games. There's another way. You know the drop down menus on the bottom of the article, you know how to make them? I find them easy to navigate and useful. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 17:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Yep, a navigation box! Great idea, too!
We'll see what happens. I posted the item on Talk:Biodiversity page - so that folks interested in the topic that have an opinion can weigh in if it's helpful or now. Maybe it's not, I like it - but that's me.
Yep, that might just be the ticket! I like the greenness of the navigation template frame - and that you've got the connection to the "hot spots" - great idea! I'm still screening to sort out the list of countries - but I'm getting there.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, cool! I finished sorting through which countries cover biodiversity - copied your template to my user space - and added the countries. Here's the link: User:CaroleHenson/Template:Biodiversity Worldwide sandbox. What do you think? If it works for you, I can copy over the updated info into your template.
Oh, one thing that was mentioned is that it's preferrable not to direct to sections. This version has the direction to the specific sections where biodiversity is discussed - and if varied: Flora and fauna, geography, environment, biodiversity, etc. If someone changes the section, it just directs to the top of the article page, so I don't see a big deal. But I'm happy to just make it the article name. Do you have any thoughts about that?--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Wow, I love it! You are so organized and efficient! Yes, I prefer it directs to the biodiversity sections otherwise people may think we mislead them. I will copy it! I seem to struggle on finding overall statistics for the Endemism section of my article, there are bits and bobs lying around but not a systematic figure. --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 19:07, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, my online course with Edx has started so I will be slowing down on Wiki. I will still check in everyday and do some edits if my homework is finished. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 08:34, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Well good luck with that - I hope it goes well for you. Things are going to be slower for me for awhile, too. I have a number of personal life and family things to take care of - so I'll be on here much less over the next 3 weeks or so. Great work on the Biodiversity article! I've done some editing - but I'll check into things a bit more over the next couple of days.--CaroleHenson (talk) 12:35, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, I went through the induction yesterday. MIT gave me permission to publish my study log[22] on their site once it's open on Oct 1st. The biodiversity article is near completion, once done I will move it. :D --RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 14:55, 28 September 2012 (UTC
You're making good progress! I joined the WCC group - and saw that you created the user box that I posted on my user page. Seems like you're involved in a lot of good efforts.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:59, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
Yes, I think that that there are a couple of DYK options, like:
There are also unique species which can only be found in a certain region in Wales and nowhere else in the world. Such as Radnor lily, spotted Rock-rose and a type of fish Gwyniad only can be found in Lake Bala.
The Welsh government works closely with Wales Biodiversity Partnership(WBP) which is made up of key individuals and organizations from both public and private sectors with the support of volunteers...--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! That's very nice of you! It's been a pleasure - it's like I'm visiting there to read about and see such beautiful pictures of the County Cornwall.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello Carole, I see the article got deleted. I'm glad you kept a copy though, thanks! I dont know if you would be interested in making an index page for the country lists with moths and butterflies, if so, feel free to do so, because you seem to be good in creating these kinds of articles. I can use your template and do it myself, but this will probably be sometime in the future, because I am currently working on other articles. Cheers! Ruigeroeland (talk) 06:48, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I went ahead and submitted the request for deletion - I'm going to use a navigation template instead. Wow! You've got an ambitious project to create indexes by country with moths and butterflies!!! I'll look forward to seeing how that comes along.--CaroleHenson (talk) 08:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I have sources for some of the missing countries, but a lot of the Asian and South-American countries do not seem to have check lists of species available. I will have to wait for science to produce those if I ever want to complete the project..! Anyway, I mainly work on creating articles on species. Tons of work to be done still! :) Ruigeroeland (talk) 09:28, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for that! I'm not sure what you mean, there is a link to the sculptor. Do you mean create an article for the red link in the article? Put the wikilink in the caption of the image?--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Cornwall articles
I know you have been very industrious in expanding and raising the quality of articles, but are there any about Cornwall which are completely new? It so it is useful to list them on the "New articles" page within the project. The settlement stubs from DrBlofeld: I suggest leaving these alone for now. I expect User:Zangar will come back to work on WP sometime so you might leave him a copy of the existing discussion so he can let you know what he thinks about your proposal.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 18:59, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I created Trevithick Society, other than that I don't think I created any new Cornwall articles, but who knows - I may have. There's somewhere I can see a list of the articles I created - I'll poke around a bit and see.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I will look at the history of those two and add them to the list as they should have WP Cornwall on the Talk page. This at St Merryn talk: "So that I can update the Doble Saints of Cornwall from 1965 to 2000 Oxford University Press edition, do you mind taking a look at the two #9 citations and see if they match up with what's in the 2000 edition + provide a page number(s)?" I am not sure whether any more is needed here.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
On the talk page, you'll find a number of questions seeking input. I hope you will join in on the conversation.
Finally, this project will be developed with volunteers from around the world who want to engage and support bringing new women (and transwomen) to Wikipedia. If you think you'd like to be involved in some capacity, that'd be awesome. We're still working on developing roles, but, you can learn more about volunteer opportunities here.
Thank you for the consideration and I hope you'll participate in developing this exciting new project to bring more women to Wikipedia! (Invite mostly reworded from original by Sarah) ツ Jenova20(email)11:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the trouble to explain a bit more to an inexperienced editor after leaving a speedy deletion tag (said editor still chewed me out for deleting all his hard work, but that's not your fault!). That was very considerate of you. Yunshui雲水13:07, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
^119. "?". Cornwall Council. Retrieved 6 December 2010.
^120. "?". Office for National Statistics. Retrieved 6 December 2010.
I am guessing that when the Cornwall Council posted the 2010 demographics, the 2001 info was removed. That's just a guess though. Since it's just a footnote anyway - now that we have 2010 info, I just removed the 2001 info and citations.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:51, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
That sounds likely; 2010 is more worth having for now. The 2011 census results are very slow in coming out but part of them have been available since July 2012. It is too late to do much here (9.50 p.m.) but I hope to look through Porthtowan tomorrow.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 20:52, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
The Porthtowan article is a very thorough job. There is a little more in the Todd & Laws book but that information is probably in some of the websites you have used as sources and an encyclopaedia article should be a summary. I am not keen to do very much on mining; an editor doing serious work on it would need access to some of the more detailed books on it which I do not have. (FFS)
Ok, sounds good. At least something has been added for the mines - and someone that knows mining much better can tackle going into more detail.(CH)
The coverage of the economic history of Cornwall is very patchy: fishing and mining have general articles and farming and tourism do not (those would be very difficult to research I think and might not interest general readers very much). (FFS)
The tourism aspect might interest readers. I'll think about that, that interests me.(CH)
You are probably right about the tourism, but how to consult useful sources seems so hard. It is a fairly short period though perhaps from the mid 1870s to say 2000 (more recent could be left for a future editor). F. E. Halliday in his History of Cornwall (1959) has about one and a half pages on the tourism of the late 19th century and three on the 20th. Before the railways came there was hardly any travelling for pleasure though a few writers came like Wilkie Collins (author of Rambles beyond Railways), Lord Tennyson and Dinah Maria Craik. Halliday gives some quotations from Black's Guide (1876). I presume there would be more in Payton's more recent history but I do not have that. It develops partly because of improvements in transport: railways, motor cars and coaches (such the Royal Blue coaches). The Veronica Whall windows are in a Freemasons' hall (though the building was not originally masonic): the hall is linked from the article. Another suggestion: there is an artist called Annie Walke associated with St Hilary. She might deserve an article. I hope some day to write an article on her husband Bernard Walke but have not really started. Best wishes.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 14:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Good pointers and the Cornwall tourism article. I'll probably start that in a couple of days. In the meantime, I did what I could on the Veronica Whall and Edward Woore articles - and there are a couple more stained glass articles that could use a bit of brushing up / references. Does the Best Wishes mean goodbye?--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:28, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It was not meant as "goodbye" (I don't know whether it is one of those phrases that have a different meaning in the US); I'll be happy to hear from you at any time and I am very impressed with what I have seen of your work. It seemed better to express something instead of just ending the message. I have found a description of the churchyard cross at St Agnes (by A. G. Langdon, 1896) so may add a little there. There is an extensive guidebook literature for Cornwall, e.g. the Shell guide (John Betjeman's Cornwall, was published in June 1934 by the Architectural Press), John Murray's guide, Ward and Baddeley's "thorough" guide, &c. and countless booklets about individual places and buildings. Good luck.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 15:55, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok, sounds good! I'm going to work on a couple of artist's articles for a bit - and then work on the tourism article a bit later.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It looks like you've got some great information for Bernard when you're ready - and yes it looks like there are some things I can use for Annie in your discussion.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:32, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I went ahead and started Bernard Walke - I used that rather than his full name because he was commonly known as Bernard or Ber Walke - and not Nicolo. I tried to find a simple biography to get some info started (family background, when and where he was born, schooled, etc. but found a lot more info that I added to Talk:Bernard Walke with links to more information. See also where he's linked here. Hope this helps!--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:46, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for all your good work; I hope to expand on Bernard Walke's life and work but find persistent work on a single article rather hard (and only one of the articles I have written was a biography). Some more can come from 20 Years I hope. Annie Walke's article is a very thorough job.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
I know what you mean, if you only knew how many times a day I say "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time"! If it helps to break it down a bit (and I think you have covered some if not all of this in your discussion). It seems that there are some subjects that can be tackled one-at-a-time:
BBC plays
Religious Controversy
Children's Home he established with his wife
Church decoration - probably not much more there, unless it relates to the havoc reeked during the controversy (I think in the early 1930s
Relationships with artists - ditto
Positions prior to St Hilary
And, if it helps you, you could gather information in an outline for one of the topics - and then either you or I could write from the outline for the sub-topic. Let me know if that helps or you'd like my assistance on it. He's definitely an interesting subject! Much more so once I dug into information for Annie's article. You definitely picked an interesting person!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh, another thing. Biographies have become easier for me, especially for artists, because I follow a line of questions in my mind - one-by-one.
Personal life
What information is there about his or her birth, childhood and parents?
Did he marry?
Did he have children?
Were his spouse and children involved or follow in his footsteps?
Education
Where did he go to school?
Were any of his teachers influential?
Were there any scholarships, awards, exhibits, works sold while in school
War
Was he in the military service?
Did he create works, receive ideas that influenced later works or make war memorials?
Career
How did he start off?
Where did he work chronologically?
What important partnerships did he have?
What was notable about his work career?
Was he a member of professional organizations? Did he have a role other than member?
Did he have related activities: taught, published articles or books on his trade, etc?
Works - What are his works?
Exhibitions - When did he exhibit?
Influences - Was he influenced by anyone or any movement? Did he influence anyone else
Yes these questions are worth thinking about and it will certainly make the work of improving the article easier. Bernard Walke has several aspects which make him a worthy subject of an article. Writing about him as a High Church Anglican priest in Cornwall such a long time ago is difficult as we are writing for everybody who can understand English and describing the society of his time and his place within it does not come easily. H. M. Brown gives a good account of the controversy over Walke's ministry at St Hilary (about two pages) in A Century for Cornwall (1976) so I will see about summarising this for the article. What Canon Allchin says in his introduction to Twenty Years should be very useful too.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:54, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I think this actually may be one of the most interesting articles I've worked on in some time - he's quite a complicated may - An Anglican vicar who had strong leanings in Catholicism - a man of God who also had a down to earth side. I may take the Children's Home piece if you don't mind. I find that part interesting.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:04, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
No objection if you write up the children's home: H. M. Brown (he was also an Anglican oriest and the author of several books) says this about the home «He had inaugurated a Home for orphaned children in a one-time public-house, receiving for care and attention children commended to him by the local authority.» (one of the things he mentions about St Hilary in Twenty Years is that it had four public houses) In the next paragraph he says: «His church had been gradually enriched with painted choir stalls, pictures, statues and several altars of stone. Its appearance was neither exactly Roman, nor medieval, but largely sui generis, every ornament and gift the result of love.» (Brown: A Century for Cornwall; p. 98) The children's home is described in chapter 18 of Twenty Years. This is called "The Jolly Tinners" (an appropriate name in St Hilary), pp. 190-197; apparently the boys and girls were not local but came mainly from Shoreditch and Clerkenwell in London.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 18:44, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello again, The four pubs mentioned above was a mistake: he says four meeting-houses (likely to have been Methodist chapels) and no pub. Many Methodists were abstainers from alcohol. Father Rogers was the Vicar of Penzance (probably St Mary's). Bernard Walke does not always give full names such as the name of the Bishop of Truro who instituted him (this was Winfried Burrows who became Bishop after Bishop Stubbs had died in 1912). The institution is described as being in Lent 1913 in Twenty Years.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 07:41, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok, thanks! I'm not sure what to do with the information - so I removed the mention of the pub from the article. Is there anything else to do - or is it conversational? Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
I think the Jolly Tinners building should still be called a former pub. The comments above were not really meant as suggestions to alter the article. Walke's book is sometimes hard to follow as he moves around in time and sometimes gives people's full names, sometimes not. The index has several wrong page numbers. It is also odd that Walke's statements about the children's home don't match up with the account based on other sources (he does not say that Annie Walke had any role at the home); given that he wrote the book in hospital he presumably had no access to the kinds of records which he would have had at home so his memory would be the main source. I see you are getting on well with more artists. I am not getting on with expanding on the ritual controversy yet.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 14:10, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok, great! I see you made the pub change. I'm working my way through the Newlyn School painters - and have really been enjoying it!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:28, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Also some additions to other sections. On pp. 166-67 of Twenty Years Walke describes how Norman Garstin met Bernard Shaw after the Christmas play, saying to him "I am most delighted to meet you Mr. Shaw, for we have several things in common" (Shaw) "And what may they be?" (NG) "I am an Irishman, Mr. Shaw, and I too am an admirer of Bernard Shaw." I'm glad it is going well with the artists.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:14, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok, that's cool! I've been using List of colors - but the table of colors in your link is too cool for words!
I'm still wondering, though, how to just make the font / text color white and leave the pretty reddish background color in the infobox.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:41, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Carole, hope you are well. We went to see the new house yesterday and it was great! We are going to move very soon! :D --RexRowanTalk19:04, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
You're fun - switching to Halloween colors for your name. I am so glad you're liking your new place. I just moved myself to my favorite part of town.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:36, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
The cat next door is called Pumpkin! :D I hope you enjoy your new surroundings! When I move, I will go on hike and take some photos to show you! :D --RexRowanTalk09:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
That sounds great! Things are going to quiet down for me, so if there's something you'd like help with, let me know. I hope your classes are going well, too!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
The classes are very interesting, but mind boggling. I fear I may not pass it but at least I learnt a lot. I got a Hello Kitty cake for my birthday, I love it so much I will never want to eat it :D --RexRowanTalk16:01, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
By the way, you are so good at writing, have your ever considered to be an agent for writers? If you get a publishing deal, you receive 15% of the profit. I can make a free website for you too. Here is an agent[24]--RexRowanTalk16:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Happy Birthday! I'm glad you had a nice day. Regarding being an agent for writers: That's an interesting thought! I'll think about it!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:00, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Have now completed revamp. Citations added etc. If you wish to look it over then I would be most obliged. Have also done with Edgar
Boutry. I will now move to Felix Alexandre Desruelles.
Hi Carole, just drop by to see how you are. I am taking a computer science course with Harvard called CS50, it is really fun! I even made a little video of me and my son[25]. Will be moving this weekend and out of broadband for about a week, we are getting very excited. There are sheep and rabbits right next to our new house! :D
It seems you have a number of lovely changes in your life. Good luck with the move and the computer class! I love the video of your son - very sweet! It will be nice to hear how the move went and you're enjoying the bunnies and sheep when you're back in touch! Take care my friend!--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Nathaniel Hitch
I have just had an enquiry from the vicar of a church in Egremont. I had dealt with the church
when writing my Nathaniel Hitch article.
The vicar asked me what had happened to the photograph of Hitch's work in his church and when I
looked at the article and the list of Hitch's work which I believe you created from my original work
not only was the photograph missing but the whole piece on the Egremont church.
I have not heard from you and hope that you are alright. Perhaps you are taking a holiday. If so I hope that it goes well.
I think that what has happened is that when preparing the listing of Hitch's works you put them into a "working space" so that you could transfer them one by one into the list. You may then have been distracted and thought the list had been completed leaving several works in limbo.
I will assume this is what has happened and will transfer the items one by one to the listing.
I hope that this takes care of matters. Recently I finishing my work on adding citations etc etc to the articles I had written and am anxious to draw a line under it all and finish with wikipedia
I have provided a little more: it seems to me the other aspects of his character which can be seen in his book like the social activism and attitude to animals might be picked up eventually. The three bishops of Truro he served under all took somewhat different views of him. He left by resignation rather than by retirement; Anglo-Catholic clergymen like him were now serving under Bishop Hunkin whose position was Evangelical (Low Church). Walke describes how the new bishop visited St Hilary. On leaving he commented merely "You are a one." Thank you for taking on Veronica Whall; medieval stained glass in Cornwall is very scarce and most of it it is at St Neot.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:17, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Done
Done - citation info and consolidating multiple citations to do. The multiple citation part is really easy when you get the hang of it. Like the "Politics" example above where the ref name is established: After that all you need to have at each spot for the citation is the ref name followed by a /. So for the politics citations it's <ref name=Politics/>.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
maybe we can create an article on this. 
--RexRowan忍(Ninja signal) 09:08, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
