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WikiProject Medicine Backlog update

Hey there. Just letting you know that I've started a code repository for the backlog report scripts here. Right now, backlog_report.py retrieves a list of articles in a single category and its first-level sub-categories, and puts them in a datestamped .csv. file. Next step is to grab templates as well. Step 3 is to add functionality to triangulate articles with multiple categories/templates. Step 4 is to make the thing output to a nicely-formatted report on a wikipage. Step 5 is bot request... Step 6: profit! I should have time next weekend to work on steps 2-3. Meantime, if you want to a) mock up what you'd like the final report to look like in your sandbox and b) give a little thought to the bot request (tho it should be uncontroversial), that might accelerate the completion of steps 4-5. Ping me on my TP with questions; I'll keep you posted! Cheers, - J-Mo Talk to Me Email Me 00:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Not mine

Already in the project in:

Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Wikipedia and medicine

I will add any more I find there. Bests.--Garrondo (talk) 16:03, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 18:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Drew Pinsky

Hi Biosthmors, so, I'm looking at this article and I see sections purely listing off Dr. Drew's filmography and some of his published works. I removed the published works section and was considering removing the filmography/tv section since it seemed from Dr. Karim's article that such content would be considered excessive detail and too resume-like. Would that be an appropriate assessment? Let me know when you have a chance. Thanks. Sincerely, TylerDurden8823 (talk) 02:04, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

That might be best, since filmography's should look different than that. Someone might howl WP:Preserve. But it's unclear if he just appeared or if he had a significant role, there's no references, and there's plenty of prose in Drew_Pinsky#Other_media_appearances anyways. So yeah, chopping seems best. Biosthmors (talk) 02:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Appreciate you weighing in buddy. Thanks for the guidance. Also, the removal of the journal publications was removed and they think it's appropriate. Are there any guidelines I can cite that say what is/is not appropriate for inclusion in the Biography of a living person? I've seen WP: Biography of a living person and it doesn't seem clear cut to me one way or the other. I also do not want to start an edit war so I'm trying to figure it out before making any more edits. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 03:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I see those publications were restored. It seems fair to let a book merit its own line. If you want to make the argument there is too much unencyclopedic detail, you might want to check to see how WP:FA do things. I wouldn't consider this bio a high-priority in terms of cleanup, so maybe another target would be best. Biosthmors (talk) 16:20, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree about the specific article, I really don't care one way or the other, I just want to know the rule in general if there is one. I'll see how FA does it. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 16:25, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Promotion criteria

Hi, Is there a standard criteria or policy that a band or company isn't considered just promotional? At what point does a brand or company qualify to have have their own wikipedia page so links can be provided to that page. I assume the answer is very subjective? Does a company, brand, person, etc. have to attain some sort of internet popularity statistic? Or is this left up to editors of Wikipedia and what is the criteria? ThanksTdbankcell (talk) 04:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Greetings!

Thanks for your comment on my talk page, I've been slowly updating the PLOS Medicine page and felt that it would benefit from a section on notable papers like the other journals have - I was mindful of the discussion on the wikiproject:academic journals page regarding notable papers and justifying them. Do you think what I've written justifies their inclusion? Two of the papers have been cited hundreds of times, two have led substantial health policy changes and one was the direct result of the journal's intervention in the US court that revealed ghostwriting by a pharmaceutical company. I thought that these four papers gave a sense of what the journal is about at least. I'll move over the content of the sandbox soon. The Warwick meeting was really useful for me. I've been in touch with James about maybe publishing some wikipedia pages but the license turned out to be incompatible with PLOS's and it seems other journals have been able to help out. Thanks for your interest --Pjsimpso82 (talk) 20:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Cheers, thanks for the pointer. I got in touch with the folk over at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Academic_Journals#PLOS_Medicine before I started but I'll certainly drop note over at WT:MED too. When I spoke to James he gave me the impression that the Medicine group were mostly interested in the medicine pages rather than the journal pages, but the more eyes te better! --Pjsimpso82 (talk) 09:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)--82.71.186.221 (talk) 09:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikimedia Conference in Milan

hi Biosthmors. nice to meet you at Wikimedia Conference in Milan. let me know if you need anything in Milan/Italy. hope you'll have a nice time here around. --Iopensa (talk) 10:09, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Oncolytic Adenovirus

Hi Biosthmors, Wonder if I can get you input over at Oncolytic adenovirus a user has replaced the entire article with what seems to be an extract from a dissertation or something. The old article wasn't brilliant, but it was in development, this new one seems pretty impenetrable to the average person. I've started a discussion on the talk page about it. Thanks, Viraltonic (talk) 17:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

AFT5 re-enabled

Hey Biosthmors :). Just a note that the Article Feedback Tool, Version 5 has now been re-enabled. Let us know on the talkpage if you spot any bugs. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 00:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Great American Wiknic for Atlanta in June

Howdy! I would like to invite you to join with a local edition of the Great American Wiknic this June :) Also, please add any preliminary details to Wikipedia:Wiknic#2013 Wiknic.--Pharos (talk) 17:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Alzheimers

There was a comment on the talk page

"I do research in this field and most of this article is incorrect and should be rewritten to avoid the spread of misinformation. The revision should cite the recent literature.--Scorchedterra (talk) 16:52, 25 April 2013 (UTC)"

and today, the creator and main author User:Chulseman requested deletion. I presume he agreed with the comment. I didn't go into the actual ins and outs - in a case like that I assume they know what they're doing. It is an area where things are changing - the relationships between the prions and the condition are in debate. Are they a cause or an effect? Originally they were thought to be a cause. Now things are shifting the other way, or were last time I read about it. Not nearly as clear cut as finding a bullet in there... Peridon (talk) 22:16, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

COI

Greetings. Still no feedback on my CLU conflict of interest post. I am confident I can edit the page without promoting myself or the university, so I'm going to forge ahead. Thanks for your help! Drdemartino (talk) 17:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello again. Can you grant me Course Instructor rights? I'll be using wikipedia in a class I'm teaching on PR this summer, and want to set up Cal Lutheran as a participating institution and the course website. Thanks! Drdemartino (talk) 23:20, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Greetings

Thanks for your comments on my application, but I don't understand what you mean by using more Wikipedia experience. And why should there be an urgent need for an Ambassador? Shouldn't you just apply for some specific reasons and needs? I am confused. Could you please explain more? --Mukhtar Mohamed 17:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)Hanad Mukhtar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanad Mukhtar (talk • contribs)

@User:Biosthmors (test).
I replied at your talk page. Biosthmors (talk) 02:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Atlanta Wiknic page started

Sign up to join the awesomeness: Wikipedia:Meetup/Atlanta/Atlanta 5!--Pharos (talk) 19:38, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

My changes BDOM

Hello, I have created an EL in the [Addiction] article with my EL; I have not changed the other items. Addiction hadn't a EL, only FR which is less applicable. Is it OK to do so ? Furher earlier thoughts on my talk page. --Ossip Groth (talk) 19:10, 9 May 2013 (UTC) Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Ossip_Groth_and_links_to_reviews thank you ! --Ossip Groth (talk) 19:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Neuroaid

Hello Biosthmors, could you please join the discussion on neuroaid in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine when you have the time? Would appreciate your input. Thanks. Ochiwar (talk) 19:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!

Wikipedia Ambassador Barnstar
In appreciation for your tremendous efforts on behalf of SLU Signal Transduction 2013. What a great semester! Biolprof (talk) 20:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Proposal at TAFI talk

A discussion that may interest you is occurring at Wikiproject TAFI's talk page at: Proposal: use Theo's Little Bot to automate the schedule and queue. Northamerica1000(talk) 12:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Chat and compare notes on last semester's classes

Hi, Biosthmors, I'm wondering if you'd like to chat a bit and compare notes about last semester's education program classes, here on Biolprof's talk page. Klortho (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library now offering accounts from Cochrane Collaboration (sign up!)

The Wikipedia Library gets Wikipedia editors free access to reliable sources that are behind paywalls. Because you are signed on as a medical editor, I thought you'd want to know about our most recent donation from Cochrane Collaboration.

  • Cochrane Collaboration is an independent medical nonprofit organization that conducts systematic reviews of randomized controlled trials of health-care interventions, which it then publishes in the Cochrane Library.
  • Cochrane has generously agreed to give free, full-access accounts to 100 medical editors. Individual access would otherwise cost between $300 and $800 per account.
  • If you are still active as a medical editor, come and sign up :)

Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 20:18, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Wiknic 2013

You're invited. Please sign up at Wikipedia:Meetup/Atlanta/Atlanta 5. — Ganeshk (talk) 12:57, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the edit

Yes, I totally see how that was original research now. I appreciate the pointer! USA Rox (talk) 03:06, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

hello ... where did you put my ocntribution below? it was there yesterday now it's gone.

Consumers are now seeing more green products in local supermarkets, but unfortunately not all products are "green". EnviroMedia Social Marketing created a Greenwashing Index Scoring Criteria. This index is exceptionally useful to all consumers who are interested in purchasing green products. By using The Greenwashing Index Scoring Criteria it will guide, help, and educate consumers on how to read an advertisement so they will not be swindled into buying a product that is Greenwashing.[1]

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
-- 19:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Mission 1 Mission 2 Mission 3 Mission 4 Mission 5 Mission 6 Mission 7
Say Hello to the World An Invitation to Earth Small Changes, Big Impact The Neutral Point of View The Veil of Verifiability The Civility Code Looking Good Together

Inline Citations?

Hi,

I noticed that you removed the references that I tried to add to the pathsolutions page a few days ago. I was under the impression that general references could be used, which don't have to tie into any bit of information within the page.

"The opposite of an inline citation is what the English Wikipedia calls a general reference. This is a bibliographic citation that is unconnected to any particular bit of material in an article, but which might support some or all of it. It is called a 'general reference' because it supports the article 'in general', rather than supporting specific sentences or paragraphs."

Would it be possible to include those links for now as general references, but also format them like the 5 current inline citations (indented with #, etc), until I figure out how to do inline citations?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.102.148.162 (talk) 20:00, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

There's nothing absolutely wrong with general references User:38.102.148.162. They were widely used back in the old days. Now, we prefer inline citations to help with verifying information. And there were so many for such a short article! They are all on the talk page Talk:PathSolutions and to incorporate them (we call them the "ref tags") into an inline citation just place them inside of <ref> here </ref>. When you open an edit window, you can click on them at the bottom where it says "Cite your sources" to auto-generate them wherever the cursor is. Also, see the H:Cheatsheet if you'd like an example. Best. Biosthmors (talk) 20:08, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Ambassador

Hi, Biosthmors

I don't have an ambassador, and I would sure like one! I am using wikipedia for the first time in my class of 100, and I'm a new editor myself, so I anticipate lots of questions. Any suggestions?18:00, 13 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oconnor.ua (talk • contribs)

Hi--yes, I need an ambassador!

Hi, Biosthmors,

I am not sure if my first post was published on your talk page, so I'm trying again:

I am going to use Wikipedia with my undergrad class for the first time this fall, and as a new editor myself, I would really like an ambassador! Suggestions?Oconnor.ua (talk) 18:03, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I very much appreciate your thoughts--I am very concerned that wikipedia should not become burdened by academic classes, but at the same time I think it is very important for my students to understand how wikipedia is made since so many of them use it. I will allow their assignments to be graded directly from their sandbox, so as not to unduly publish rubbish. I also will have them add citation ideas to the talk page of an article they are working on. I have chosen a range of articles (many of them stubs) for the students to choose from. I am open to other suggestions, however!
And also, I do understand why my post on "Grief" was reversed, and I will keep that in mind.
Thanks for the helpOconnor.ua (talk) 14:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Oconnor.ua, that's great that you're going to allow grading from the sandbox. As a rough guide, I'd say if it's not going to improve Wikipedia, let it stay in the sandbox so it can receive partial credit there. If it will improve Wikipedia, let it go live. An ambassador can help make this determination. I think a key here is to establish a good relationship with a knowledgeable ambassador. I can meet with you over Skype to answer questions and help work on your course page, but I can't commit to being your go-to ambassador at this point. I will ask at the education noticeboard if there is a list we can copy-paste to notify all ambassadors when a professor is in need of an ambassador. We have a new notification system, so we should use it. =) Biosthmors (talk) 08:48, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Okeyes (WMF)

Its his talk page and he has every right to edit the page himself. Its highly inappropriate in this case for you to be editing it against his known wished Its not a article page and there is 0 inappropriate material and he should have been given appropriate time to edit it himself under the circumstances and you and others could of and should discuss on his talk page. Very disappointed with the way you and others are handling this here.Blethering Scot 13:26, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey Blethering. I'm sorry to contribute to your sense of disappointment. Life's short as it is and I'm behind on more productive things for the 'pedia (Talk:Low back pain/GA1, for example). I'm not trying to inflame anything. Just trying to be a little bold (and hopefully resolve a conflict) and help the wiki move along. Best wishes. Biosthmors (talk) 13:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Biosthmors/Archive 4. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by ColinFine (talk) 09:39, 21 August 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

PreClinical Clubfoot Deformity

Hello,

I am Professor Rothbart. I have been a researcher and clinican for over 40 years. I am credited with discovering and publishing on a previously unrecognized abnormal inherited foot structure, the PreClinical Clubfoot Deformity. I first published on this foot structure in a peer reviewed medical journal in 2002. And have subsequently published several other papers on this foot structure in Podiatry Review (Podiatric peer review journal).

As the discoverer of this foot structure, I believe that I am the expert on this foot subject. My research suggests that this foot structure is one of the most common causes of chronic muscle and joint pain. Both my research and clinical practice provide data that substantiates this statement.

The language is technical, because the subject matter is technical. The language can be geared more towards the layperson in future revisions.

Professor Rothbart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.250.162.178 (talk) 14:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. For what it's worth, when I search Web of Science for "preclinical clubfoot deformity" I get 0 hits. Are there synonyms? Are you the only researcher in the area? Let's continue this at WT:MED. (I'll copy and paste this there). Biosthmors (talk) 14:31, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Currently, I am spear heading the research on this abnormal inherited foot structure. I have been trying to get other research teams involved, but research money is tight when it does not encompass drugs or surgery. Visit my research website at http://RothbartsFoot.es and you can read about my research.
I have tried to write this article as neutral as possible. That is why I intentionally left out the fact that I discovered this foot structure. Any suggestions you have on how to improve this article, would be most appreciated.
Professor Rothbart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.250.162.178 (talk) 14:43, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Dr. Rothbart (User:BrianRothbart / User:188.250.162.178), thanks for the correspondence. The general principle of Wikipedia articles is explained at WP:42. I don't know, but maybe PreClinical Clubfoot Deformity is before its time, in terms of being ready for Wikipedia. That doesn't take anything away from the value of your research. Best of luck to you. It's just that Wikipedia doesn't exactly set the trend, it follows the trend of reliable sources. The reliable sources we use for medicine are described at WP:MEDRS. The general principles we use to determine if a subject is worthy of an article here are at WP:GNG. Anyhow, one thing I'm currently working on is over at Talk:Low back pain/GA1. Feel free to provide comments on the low back pain article there, or at Talk:Low back pain. It's currently under review. Even if your article is before it's time, there are many ways to help improve Wikipedia. Best regards. Biosthmors (talk) 14:52, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Understood. My area of research over the past 40+ years has been and is, chronic muscle and joint pain. Up until the early 2000s, the cause(s)of chronic muscle and joint pain has been unknown. My research suggests that one of the common causes of this type of pain is the PreClinical Clubfoot Deformity. Because of this, I felt it was very important to have an article on this inherited abnormal foot structure in WikiPedia.

I have included primary sources in my citations as suggested. However, currently there are no other research teams looking at this foot structure (no money to support these research grants). Possibly you are correct in that this article is before its' time. I hope not. This is a very important subject that needs visibility.

Professor Rothbart — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrianRothbart (talk • contribs) 16:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Professor Rothbart, to help us volunteers write an encyclopedia, it's secondary sources, like review articles published in medical journals, that we base most of our medical articles on. Nearly everything I've cited at DVT is indexed as a review article. Best regards. Biosthmors (talk) 18:36, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

LBP

Hey Biosthmors, I was really hoping that we'd get started on the LBP GA as soon as we can? Zad68 20:28, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey there Zad. I'll try to post some observations shortly. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 07:29, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm alive I'm alive! (ping to User:Zad68 about Talk:Low back pain/GA1 =) Biosthmors (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Biosthmors, hope to have a chance to look now. I'm out of town this week and have limited Wiki time. Zad68 02:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Enjoy the trip, Zad. I'll try to add more thoughts/checks throughout the week so you could just examine upon your return! Biosthmors (talk) 07:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey! Do you want more eyes on LBP? I'd be happy to take a look if you like. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:53, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Anthonyhcole, if you'd like, please feel free! =) Biosthmors (talk) 14:02, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to both for the the patience and input! Zad68 02:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm back from my travels and plan to address the GA comments as a first priority this week. Zad68 02:03, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello

This is a test. Bozero.09 (talk) 08:55, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Greetings! Biosthmors (talk) 08:56, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Greetings Bozero.09. Biosthmors (talk) 08:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you!

Thanks for being the first not-me person to give out a Million Award! Khazar2 (talk) 11:50, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome! Biosthmors (talk) 12:48, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Million Award

I didn't realize when we talked earlier that I actually owed you one of these! It was very generous of you to give them out to others before claiming your own. Cheers, and thanks for all you do!

The Million Award
For your contributions to bring Deep vein thrombosis (estimated annual readership: 1,074,000) to Good Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:37, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
This editor won the Million Award for bringing Deep vein thrombosis to Good Article status.

-- Khazar2 (talk) 14:37, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Would you like to OA for a Molecular Biology course project?

Hey there, as you know, I and User:Keilana are OAs for this course project. Another professor, teaching another section of the same course, has just decided that she would also like to run this Wikipedia project. This is very last minute -- the course officially starts tomorrow.

Would you be able to help with this? If so, could you please let us know as soon as possible? I will be setting up the new section's course page this evening. Thanks! Klortho (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey Klortho. I might sometime soon, but I don't think it's something I can jump on immediately. (This is why I wrote "Consider delaying your Wikipedia assignment to next semester if you are not familiar with how things work"!) What would you say it would it involve? As for wiki-world, I have a meeting tonight with a campus ambassador, a good article review to complete, and some professors in mind I'd already like to follow up with whom I've already spoken to once. O yeah and something else I'm working on... =) Biosthmors (talk) 07:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Okay, np. I will ping the professor again now to make sure she really wants to do this. Klortho (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Of edit requests and venues

Hi, Biosthmors. Happy Wednesday to you. Re your question, it's a standard reply—a template, to which I added an additional note that addressed the specifics of the request. If you'd like to suggest a more helpful way to respond to such a request, I'd be glad to entertain it on my talk page or yours, not on the article's talk page. Rivertorch (talk) 15:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Rivertorch, thanks for the reply. I was just a bit disappointed with what appeared to be a sense of bureaucratic/automated unhelpfulness on the talk page of that article that happened to be the most popular of the week. Thanks for your contributions. I can't say I know that template in and out. I just like seeing good old fashioned helpfulness sometimes. It's not like my comment was, though! Best. Biosthmors (talk) 15:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
No problem. There's bureaucracy and then there's mindless bureaucracy, and I have little love for the latter, believe me. The unhappy reality is that there frequently aren't enough editors knowledgeable about a topic watching a given article, so many an edit request sits unaddressed (often for days or even weeks) until some hapless dolt like me arrives and tries to make head or tail (no pun intended) of things. I have fulfilled many an edit request that doesn't conform to the preferred "change x to y" protocol, and I've even hunted down reliable sources so that I could add the requested content, but the scale of the project really demands that the onus be on the person filing the request. (See Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests and please help close some of them if you get a chance. The suggested closure templates are here.) Rivertorch (talk) 16:40, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

LBP sources

Hey if you can't get your hands on any LBP source, shoot me an email and I will send it to you right away. Zad68 01:59, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Wnt discovery section

Sorry for the late reply to your suggestions on the Wnt signaling pathway article. I have made some edits to the Discovery section and I hope my edits address any concerns you found with it. If you think it needs any further editing, please let me know. Also, I am interested in shaping up the rest of the article, so I would appreciate any specific suggestions that you have. Thanks. Gpruett2 (talk) 02:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

re: Wikipedia:Education noticeboard#Campus Ambassador application: czar

You have a message at Wikipedia:Education noticeboard#Campus Ambassador application: czar Hey Biosthmors/Archive 4, there's a message for you at Wikipedia:Education noticeboard#Campus Ambassador application: czar, when you have a moment czar ♔ 02:27, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about Dan. Unless you say otherwise, it would seem that it doesn't really affect me (which goes to your point about the role to begin with). Still, I'm going to try to organize some WP events in the area, so I'll give the lack-of-title theory a go. czar ♔ 16:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. Lack of title!? Ha! You're a Wikipedia Ambassador already! ;-) I'm interested to hear what you observe. Sorry if I @Czar: too much. I want people to ping me so I've been incorporating it into my replies lately. Maybe I should note that in my signature. Best. Biosthmors (talk) 16:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Nothing to apologize for—in fact, I wanted to give you a thank you note because I found it useful. (No need to note in sig.) And I think I'll take you up on that Skype offer soon. Take care I am no longer watching this page—whisperback if you'd like a response czar ♔ 16:50, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
@Czar:, sounds good! Just let me know when you're available. Biosthmors (talk) 16:53, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar

Nice to hear my work is appreciated :) Keizers (talk) 16:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome Keizers! By the way (from the tragedy I just noticed there, linked from your user page), I bet Creative Loafing has coverage. I've seen archives of CL at GSU's library, but I wonder if there's an online searchable database anywhere... Biosthmors (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
FYI.... Murder Kroger. =) Biosthmors (talk) 18:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Move of the student assignments page

The shortcut links are broken by the move, so please don't forget to fix each of them. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tryptofish, I think I got 'em. =) I can double check the what links here. Biosthmors (talk) 19:23, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
There still are the shortcuts to specific sections. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Great point, thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 19:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Someone should have thought of that move sooner. So I felt that I had to thank you via WP:Echo for thinking of it and carrying it out. Flyer22 (talk) 19:28, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Flyer22, it was appreciated! Thanks. =) Biosthmors (talk) 19:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
I agree. It's a better name. I should have said that sooner. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, you got all the shortcuts now. Thanks!!! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome! Biosthmors (talk) 19:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

LBP

@Zad68:, how do you like the LBP article now? Is it reasonable? Biosthmors (talk) 19:34, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Would like to review a thing or two with Doc, will reply later this weekend, thanks for your patience! Zad68 20:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
@Zad68:, enjoy your weekend! Biosthmors (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi Biosthmors, as noted on the GA page I did some final reviewing and editing and added a bit about multifidus. I think it's looking pretty good now... please check out and let me know what else! Zad68 04:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

July 15 AAP Edit

Hi, just FYI I saw your comments about NStewartAAP's July 15 edit of the American Academy of Pediatrics page. Since I figured that made you a stakeholder, I wanted to let you know I reverted it and put a comment on the talk page to open discussion. I don't claim to know much about the issues in that discussion, but I felt it was too much of a COI for a representative of the AAP to "scrub clean" the controversies section of that page. At very least, if there were concerns, I think it should have been discussed before such a massive delete. Feel free to add to the discussion if you wish. 97.100.165.246 (talk) 04:26, 14 September 2013 (UTC)Rhodes

Hey thanks. I think the reason I was OK with the removal was because I thought it was massively undue, and that the article improved by the absense of those things. Biosthmors (talk) 09:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough! I shall leave it as is! 97.100.165.246 (talk) 01:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC)Rhodes

Speedy deletion nomination of Kroger (Ponce de Leon Ave.)

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A tag has been placed on Kroger (Ponce de Leon Ave.), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as at articles for deletion. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Caffeyw (talk) 11:15, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Kroger (Ponce de Leon Ave.) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kroger (Ponce de Leon Ave.) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kroger (Ponce de Leon Ave.) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Caffeyw (talk) 14:03, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Teamwork Barnstar
Thanks for your work on the LBP review! With your leadership and uncompromising attention to detail we ended up with a significantly improved article. Zad68 00:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

GA bot

Hi Biosthmors, re this, the answer is Yes, a bot should do that, but my understanding is that the editor who was running the GA bot has withdrawn from the project and disabled the bot. I think at least some of the functions have been taken over by some other bot but maybe not all. Zad68 00:57, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Zad68! And thanks for the barnstar. =) Who left, by the way? And FYI is Wikipedia:Ambassadors/Courses/Trophy_case#Good_article_status accurate in how it presents the cotton-top article, or is it a little dubious? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) when u sign ur reply, thx 09:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah :)

Although the revised line in the 9/11 is a bit syntactically awkward. Serendipodous 09:53, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

how to do a barnstar

If you are doing them by hand (not Twinkle), you should be using this subst template: {{subst:The Original Barnstar|message ~~~~}}, is that not how you're doing it? The "message" you replace with your own message (that is what replaces the {{{1}}}). Zad68 20:38, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I was just practicing here with see preview and it was working. Yes I was doing it as you show... Odd... (that it worked). Going to try again at Moonriddengirl if that's how you spell it. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 20:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Connections

Hey, have you taken a look at the deletion discussion about Swedish CT scans? It would be really helpful if we could find someone who actually knows something about Swedish copyright law (and this allegedly non-copyright section "49a" of the Swedish Act on Copyright in Literary and Artistic Works. Do you know any Swedish copyright lawyers? Or know anyone who might? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:28, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing, the four listed there with Wikimedia Sverige would be where I would start! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Jim DeMint

Hi Biosthmors, thanks for suggesting I take my request about Jim DeMint's article to COIN. I'll try there. Thanks! Thurmant (talk) 19:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

New section on the course page

Hey! I am trying to create a new section named Wikipedia assignment on the course page Education Program:Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies/Gender and International Affairs (Fall 2013). Any idea about how to do that? Thanks Ituta (talk) 12:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Reply to thanks

Submission?? Also, re ambassador. The program changed a bit from the original format and I have a lot of things tugging at me on WP.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:20, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

TonyTheTiger, Like one of these https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Submissions , if it exists. But no worries. I hear you on the tugging. I'm especially interested in hearing what changed that you didn't like about the changed format, since I'm all involved in that area of WP. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Don't have an official submission. What percent of attendees make submissions? Originally, it was one-on-one. You would do specific editors and articles. Then it was doing a whole class and different classes are structured differently in how they get involved in WP.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:21, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Hey TonyTheTiger, I'm not sure how many. But it seems to be a good way to get one's foot in the door. Though from 2013, it seems a fair amount of submissions were declined. I guess there was limited speaking space. Interesting that it used to be one-on-one with specific editors and articles. I didn't even know that bit of history. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Request for Course Instructor Right

Thank you for updating my page. I'm new to this and figuring it all out, so if you have any advice or would like to watch my page, I would be very happy for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pangurban22 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

You are more than welcome Pangurban22. I typically only grant the course instructor user right to instructors I talk with. Would you like to talk on Skype sometime later today, perhaps in an hour? Have you read the advice for instructors and taken the training linked there, by chance? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:56, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
And Pangurban22, If you don't want to talk on Skype, that's not a problem. We can continue the conversation here. Someone might grant you the user right. But even if they don't, you can still create the course page in your user space, as what we call a WP:User subpage. It just needs to list all the students and all the articles they are working on, in its most basic form. =) There are more details about how to do so at WP:Student assignments. Best regards. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:04, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Dear Biosthmors, I would love to talk with you and get authorization for an instructor page, but I don't know how to use Skype. Is there a way for me to give you my cell number without making the phone number public? Best, pangurban22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pangurban22 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Pangurban22, how about google hangouts? I can email you my number. I emailed you once already (to whatever account you listed when you signed up). It's not a U.S. based cell number at the moment though. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:46, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Dear Biosthmors, saw your email and responded with my cell number. Best, Pangurban22 (talk) 18:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Precious

your first article simple
Thank you for quality articles on medicine such as Deep vein thrombosis, for pondering before doing, for reviewing and watching over medicine articles, for "your first article simple" and generously passing awards, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda Arendt! I'm confident you're an awesome Wikipedian too, so I'll have to browse through your contributions so that I can appreciate them as well. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 07:57, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I was told in 2010 and liked it, see my user page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

GA Tech project

Hi, I see that you are the online person for the Georgia Tech neuroscience student project. I'm watching what's going on there, and I see that some of the students are starting pages that are currently red links, and thus are obviously new pages. I have a feeling that some of these pages may be redundant with existing pages. You may want to work with the class to make sure that they have really ruled out expansion, instead, of existing pages, lest they get faced with merge discussions. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:34, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tryptofish, that's a fantastic point. Let me know if you have specific examples already in your mind that I can bring up. We ran into that problem in 2012 with the class when Alzheimer's disease and prions was created despite biochemistry of Alzheimer's disease existing. (The author subsequently requested deletion presumably because the content was of such bad quality he didn't want the risk to his reputation, but that's just my guess from what the deleting admin told me was on the talk page of the article.) We also had olfactory ensheathing glia created when olfactory ensheathing cells existed (now noted). I already have a meeting with the TA Friday on Skype (Imran) so I can bring up points to discuss then. I've also met and corresponded with a librarian/Campus Ambassador on Skype to help them prepare for technical training sessions. It's a big class, a busy prof, with multiple layers. Thanks for the heads up and if you have any specifics then that could be helpful so that I get them to the right spot at the hopefully right time. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm simply looking at the class page. Two that stand out to me are neuroinflammation and nerve staining, but there may be others. Also, there are titles that have every word capitalized. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for naming those two. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:28, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
It is great that you are acting as a liaison for the GA Tech project, but please don't WP:BITE the new editors, as you did in Perisynaptic (Terminal) Schwann Cells and User talk:Mmcmullen3. Having empty sections is no great sin, especially in a newly developing article; there is no recommendation against such in MOS:LAYOUT that I can see. But instead of giving her guidance, you deleted the sections, admonished the editor in her talk page to go play in her sandbox and implied that you called up her professor over the issues. Perhaps in dismay, the editor has requested the article be deleted (which is how I found about it in CSD). The article looks to me to be a fine starting stub for the topic. We want to encourage and retain new editors, not spank them for minor problems. Thanks, --Mark viking (talk) 23:15, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
Mark viking, I'm following this talk thread, so I hope Biosthmors won't mind if I comment here. I've read what you linked to. On the one hand, I kind of agree with you that the message on the student's talk page was a little bitey. On the other hand, I think that you, Mark, are being too hard on Biosthmors here. We already have Schwann cell. The student's new page is a merge proposal waiting to begin. The instructor dropped the ball by letting the editing go this far. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
No worries, Tryptofish. It is true that I probably don't know the full story here and a potentially redundant article is a more serious impediment than empty sections. It looks like I may have jumped to an unwarranted conclusion about why the article was self-nominated for deletion. Apologies to Biosthmors for this. Thanks for your perspective, --Mark viking (talk) 23:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
trout Self-trout (see Wikipedia:Trout for clarification if this is confusing) for letting a frustrating and complex situation with a classroom/underdeveloped course page allow me to be WP:BITEey to a newcomer. I'll apologize to the student Mark viking. And thanks for letting me know that was your impression. It is complex. And I see there is already conversation at two WikiProjects (Neuroscience and Medicine) about the topic selection process. Ping to User:LT910001 and Tryptofish about this. We should probably focus all good feedback about topic selection at the Neuroscience Wikiproject (despite WikiProject Medicine overlap) so that it can be compiled into the course page for students to see. I'll meet with the TA on Skype in about 10 hours so if there is one thread at WikiProject Neuroscience (so there isn't fragmented discussion) then it will further along the discussion so that this feedback can ultimately be incorporated back into the course page. People might want to watchlist Education Program talk:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)/Timeline as the topics will be specified/modified there. If people are curious about last years output, so that wisdom/feedback can be generated from it as well see User:Biosthmors/Intro Neuro. Thanks to all for their assistance and thoughts. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
trout Self-trout I participate in this self-troutment in a collegial manner. --> Anyhow, thanks for the ping Biosthmors! I think we should make a list on Neuroscience with some suggestions about where the topics can be placed. Any feedback could go to the instructors of the course instead of the individual students. LT90001 (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome. It's just that the librarian was teaching technical details, and TA was given responsibility for the course page. I'm the ambassador. The professor is the professor. With all of that complexity, actually developing the course page to a respectable level has fallen through the cracks. I take some responsibility for that. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

What'd you trout yourself for, by the way? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:44, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, just to be collegial. LT90001 (talk) 11:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Got it. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Ping to User:Boghog about this as well, who was very helpful for a signal transduction class last semester (thanks again). Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I have updated the page with a list of articles and alterations so that any other Wikipedians can alter as they see fit. That article is here.

your questions, recap, etc

I just wanted to let you know i saw your questions, I just don't really have the time/space to get into it at the moment, but i intend to respond to you. and thanks for following up with me. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 23:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the note! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Skype

I got your Google message. We can catch up any time you like. Are you in Europe or the US at the moment? (I'm in Western Australia - Singapore/Beijing time). --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm in Central Europe time. Sounds good Anthonyhcole. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
So it's 7 hours later here. Any time you feel like a chat, raise me here and I'll switch on Skype. I rarely check email and don't run Skype in the background. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
Great thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Education Program:Gatech Question

Hello Biosthmors,

I am a new user for wikipedia, and I create a wiki page "Granule cell dispersion" on the main wikipedia and I want to put a banner to show this is a student project. I copied what template that showed in the course page for BMED 4752 in wiki, but the banner does not show up in my article.

Do you know why and what I can do?

Thanks! Thomas — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fu Hung Shiu (talk • contribs) 22:26, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

—Darkwind (talk) 23:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Again. —Darkwind (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikihelp

I emailed Newman today; never heard back from Oklahoma. Rjensen (talk) 21:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks so much Rjensen. That's weird I never heard back either. I wonder what it is that makes people go from "that's so cool!" to ignoring your emails. Maybe they're just busy. Odd. Maybe I'll follow up one more time later. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 21:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikimed design

Hi, I have been playing around with the same idea a while ago; also based on the military history project. Adapted part of it to the medicineproject; feel free to use any of the code/elements here (and the subpages): User:Wouterstomp/wpmedredesign. --WS (talk) 09:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Great. Thanks WS. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 09:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Note to self: a potential design to keep in mind: [1]. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:41, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I've taken the plunge

... on malaria ... feel free to add your name as a co-nom, help out at the GAN, or avoid it like the plague! Cheers, Sasata (talk) 15:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Awesome Sasata. I think I'll either assist at GAN or avoid it due to being busy. Good luck! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:25, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
And Sasata, might the offer at Wikipedia:Peer review/Fluorine/archive3 be up your alley? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:21, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

sorry for the delay

For real life reasons (including, most recently, a violently allergic reaction to red wine, heh,) I haven't been able to get back to your emails etc in a timely fashion. I should be able to respond within the next day or two and hopefully catch you on skype. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I hope you're all better, no worries at all. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:33, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

peer review

Hi. Please review and fix "Fluorine". If it's too long, just hit bio and hazard sections.-TCO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.137.171 (talk) 13:55, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Continue the conversation...

Hi Biosthmors, I haven't abandoned the conversation about primary sources, but I did agree with those commenting at the WP:MED discussion that someone's RFA wasn't the right venue to hash that out. Regarding the use of primary sources, I'm planning on sending you an email with my thoughts about it. Zad68 02:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Zad68, please don't email me things about primary sources that should instead be posted to WT:MED, =) as that's where we're discussing things, but feel free to mention other items. And by "those commenting", I think only one person (Axl) suggested it wasn't the right venue. Doc James apparently misunderstood what I was driving at. If it's not fair game at a RfA to bring up, in depth, how one applies WP:MEDRS, when that's the content area one is presenting to the community, then I can't say the venue has much value as much value as I had hoped. Shrugs shoulders. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 05:34, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Agree that Axl's comment was pretty clear. Based on my reading of what Doc wrote, I am pretty sure he didn't think the line of questioning was particularly appropriate for an RFA either, I've ping'd him in this response to see if he wants to clarify. As long as one is close to the norm, where one falls on the spectrum of when a primary source is OK to be used is actually not very relevant to the use of the individual tools that are made available when the sysop bit is set on an account. In every case where I'd be making a change to an article based on its use of a primary source, I would be involved in the content and so would not be able to use admin tools there. As you said, you hadn't been involved at RFA before so maybe you didn't know that. I think !voters familiar with the RFA process understood that and weren't concerned that two active WP:MED editors weren't in 100% agreement on where the "OK/not OK" line falls, but I bet if you and I reviewed 100 edits involving primary sources we'd be in agreement on what to do with at least 80 of them. I will follow up with a comment at WT:MED. Cheers... Zad68 14:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I have discovered through the notification system that my name was mentioned so I am gonna chip in.
There are no formal guidelines about the nature of questions at RfA. As such, any editor, including anonymous IP editors, is at liberty to ask any question. RfA candidates sometimes receive odd questions, including downright frivolous ones ("What is your favourite ice-cream flavour?"). Historically, RfA questions were once called "optional" but that label has been dropped. In theory, any candidate is at liberty to ignore any supplementary question. However doing so risks the accumulation of "Oppose" !votes.
In my opinion, editors should be able to judge a candidate based on a review of the editor's nomination statement, contributions, talk page comments, and RfA tools. There is no reason why supplementary questions should be necessary. However, given that supplementary questions are here to stay, they should be used only if an editor is genuinely still unsure about the candidate after reviewing the candidate's contributions. If unsure, ask a question that will help you to judge the candidate's fitness as an admin. I am very sceptical that the nature of Biosthmors' "grilling" is intended to do this. Indeed many RfA watchers believe that this sort of aggressive questioning is one of the factors causing the reduction in RfA candidate numbers. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
  1. ^ EnviroMedia Social Marketing. "Greenwashing Index: Help Keep Advertising Honest". Retrieved 1 July 2013.
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