User talk:Balkanian`s word/Archive Arditbido

Welcome!

Hello, Balkanian`s word, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Neıl ☎ 17:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 21:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ARBMAC

Hello there. In view of your recent edit warring, both as an IP editor and under your new username, you are limited to one revert per page per day for a period of two months. This sanction will be logged at Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Log_of_blocks_and_bans.

Please concentrate on building consensus through discussion on talk pages, rather than trying to get your way through edit-warring. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greater Albania Map

According to 2001 census in Greece there were 443,550[[1]] Albanians that immigrated to Greece since 1991 (before 1991 borders were sealed, so migration was nearly impossible). There is an interested map on [[2]]Pg.18, showing the percentage of non-eu (including Albanians) immigrants as a percentage of the total population by municipality. There are just two municipalities reaching above 17% level in the Greater Albania Greek perfectures. At general, the 2001 census recorded a number of interesting data about people belonging to different nationalities inside Greece. I believe that the question tag, still looks exaggerated.

On the other hand the last census (based on nationality) that had taken place in Albania (1989) is a bit outdated (there was a lot of migration from that time to present, that may changed on the one or the other side the ethnic composition), but the most important is that it was accomplished under a totalitarian regime. Although things might be so, (according to the 1989 demographic map), more accurate arguments are still needed in order to support the fact. There are neutral researches and articles that (like [[3]]) put the ethnic composition into question and state that there is too much debate about that topic. Thank you--Alexikoua (talk) 21:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The fact is that everyone that entered Greece since 1991 is considered as 'immigrant' (even people of ethnic Greek origin). Suppose your question is based on Cham/Tsiamides and Arvanites population that might reside in the areas, according to the Albanians in Greece article, right?--Alexikoua (talk) 06:31, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked

For edit warring through multiple anon IPs (confirmed to be yours [4]) and block evasion of your previous block on 217.24.247.236 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Block duration is a week this time. This will escalate quickly towards indef if you do this again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Extended to two weeks for immediate renewed block evasion with 77.242.26.57 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Next time will be two months, then a year. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that you have to remove that one. I am in my job right now, and I do not have time to find another computer and edit things which I do not care about. The only articles which I edited was Saranda and the towns in southern Albania and Greece and about them should be a discussion, not just blocking me. Double standards should be stopped, but I cannot understand why I was blocked, when the edit-warr started in Komotini page, in which I did not revert anything, I just added information, which finally was not POV. nevermind...balkanian (talk) 12:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I checked again; it seems indeed the latest IP was somebody else (User:Dodona, as always), who happens to be on the same IP blocks. My apologies. I've reset to the original 1 week. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look whats happend to Saranda page. There are reverted to references. The first is a reference from a study of SouthEuope organisation about the proportions of population and the second from Council of Europe which says that there was not any kind of discrimination. and they have added a reference about "albanisation", which is misquoted. Do you understand now, why I am suspended? Please see the last edition of Saranda made by me, and the current page and then you will understand what I am talking about. This is not what wikipedia was ment to be... this is greek nationalist version of wiki.balkanian (talk) 13:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They have also removed the famous people section and an external link. After this I am banned, that`s really...fair. balkanian (talk) 13:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why is my IP blocked for one day more? No explanation!!! balkanian (talk) 05:57, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are only tow reverts made by me look it carefully. You have no reason to block me. balkanian (talk) 08:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked, and comment about Sarandë

Well, first of all, I'm afraid you blatantly broke WP:3RR at Sarandë, so I have to block you (again). That said, about the contentious text, my impression is that neither your version nor Megistias' is particularly good. I would have hoped to see more serious efforts at condensing material into something truly neutral and encyclopedic from both sides, but I also have the impression that both you and Megistias are hampered in doing so by your less-than-perfect command of English. Not sure how I can help you with that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I want to insure you that English-knowledge is not the problem. The problem is that I am emotionally involved. I cannot stand watching some nationalists, writing irrelevant things about my hometown. Look carefully both versions and see which is more neutral. I admit that mine is neither, but that`s because, I know the reality, and the reality is that Greeks in Saranda (part of them my friends, part of them persons I know) are not ethnically deprived from anything, as my references say... balkanian (talk) 08:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, if you realise your own version isn't yet truly neutral, then I guess the best way to proceed is for you to make a new draft that is better? (You can post it here.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You removed references,you misquoted them and you repeated this despite that being discussed.It took so much time for you to realize that it was the Albanian governments opinion of events which of course was unrealistic since the extreme measures against Greeks during the communist era are a historical fact.Megistias (talk) 08:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Megistias, your tone is not helping. As so often. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No buddy, the only reference you had was da.mod.uk, and it is still in the page. You removed both references I got. On the other hand, your references are irrelevant. There aren`t mentioned neither Saranda, nor albanisation. By the way Καλλο Πάσχα balkanian (talk) 08:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No i had references which you removed and Saranda is part of Albania and thus they were relevant and Albanisation is a historical fact no matter how you want to deny it.No collaboration from your side obviously just denial of facts.Vickers and this fella are relevant

"Badlands-Borderland: A History of Southern Albania/Northern Epirus,ISBN-10: 0715632019,2003,T.J. Winnifrith,Page 138:"... the Orthodox Albanian-speakers who had not been expelled. On the other hand under Hoxha there were draconian measures to keep Greek-speakers loyal to Albania. Albanian rather then Greek history was taught in schools. ...".
Albania: From Anarchy to a Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 190,"When ethnic Greeks were caught attempting to escape to Greece,penalties were severe for the actual offender execution was common and his whole family might be condemned in internal exile for many years usually in the mining camps of northern and central albania"
You are not cooperating and you even presented the lies of the Albanian government as if they were a fact.History of communism doesn't change from a report.Megistias (talk) 08:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry this is the best I have. I do not understand where is the problem about that. Today, Saranda's population is mostly ethnic Albanians with a minority of Greeks and Vlachs[8]. Albanians compose 88% of the total population of the town, and the Greeks and Vlachs 12%.[9]. According to a study conducted, there has been a discrimination of Greek minority in Saranda, till 1997 [10], but according to an albanian study presented to Council of Europe, Greek minority had the same rights as albanian population did.[11] balkanian (talk) 08:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Its Albanian report that reaches the realm of sci fi fantasy and stays there as it denys historical facts and rewrites the history of communism.Not discrimination..... but albanisation since before even communism.You removed quoted material.Megistias (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now lets start another conversation. Under Hoxha`s regime, everybody was executed, when was caught at the border (I can find a million references for that) and there is no albanisation, as long as they were aloud to be taught in their language (see your first reference) balkanian (talk) 09:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Read the references and don't assume i have n't.I dont have to repost them 1000 times just because you deny the facts.Megistias (talk) 09:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn`t ask you to repost them, I asked you to post the reference where is included the word albanisation and the one where is included the word Saranda. I don`t think that it is difficult to understand. balkanian (talk) 09:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You follow the same tactic as you did on the article pages.The measures we in all of Albania so and Saranda is part of it.Albanisation is what happened in those people.Their ethnic charakter was changed to that of Albanians.Thats what it means.

I don`t think that it is difficult to understand, its actually 101Megistias (talk) 09:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No it is not difficult, you assume "albanisation", your references do not include it. It is so simple. You wrotte: ...Vickers and this fella are relevant...Balkan IdentityISBN 1850652791,by Miranda Vickers & James Pettifer, 1999,page 190...

So, that`s what nationalists do, they don`t read their own sources...balkanian (talk)

"Badlands-Borderland: A History of Southern Albania/Northern Epirus,ISBN-10: 0715632019,2003,T.J. Winnifrith,Page 138:"... the Orthodox Albanian-speakers who had not been expelled. On the other hand under Hoxha there were draconian measures to keep Greek-speakers loyal to Albania. Albanian rather then Greek history was taught in schools. ...".
Thats Albanisation.You did not even read what the council of Europe posted in their site.Its a report(fantasy) from the Albanian goverment .Megistias (talk) 09:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ups sorry, I forgot the title...but I did not forgot the essence. So in your opinion, albanisation is keeping Greeks loyal to Albania. Find a reference that this is the meaning of albanisation and I will accept it.balkanian (talk) 09:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I leave you to your own devices and denial.Megistias (talk) 09:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I edited discussion page of Saranda, I forgot that I was blocked. Sorry...balkanian (talk) 13:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saranda

Please see my suggestions on the article's talk page. --Tsourkpk (talk) 22:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cameria/Tsiamouria

The origin of the term Cham/Chameria/Tsiamouria is clear in every tourist guide and encyclopedia (whether online or not), also Albanian, Greek organization agree on that claim (Chameria from Thyamis). Moreover, there is not any opposing opinion so far. The sources are clear and reliable(there are more than 100 url stating this too). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariosbiourd (talk • contribs) 10:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The initial sentence about the population of Chameria/Tsiamouria was too propose an argument of its low population density (probably because of the expulsions that happened at the end of WWII). I believe today's population numbers do not prove this, the region has population denstiy levels near average for a rural region with some towns and a (low level) city- Preveza. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariosbiourd (talk • contribs) 19:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Korce

Nice try, but Le Monde Diplomatique is not "some journalistic map" (what does that even mean anyway?), but in fact a very prestigious publication with a rock-solid reputation for fact-checking. It is exactly the kind of source that meets WP:RS in contrast to your southeasterneurope.org website. Please stop removing all info about minorites in Albania. It is VERY nationalistic and tedious. --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edwin E. Jacques

Edwin E. Jacques has no scholarly value at all and is a questionable source full of fringe -and comical-theories.Refrain from using him directly or indirectly.Megistias (talk) 13:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 18:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your view!

Please give your view in [5] in :Albanian … and my case!.Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.24.247.17 (talk) 11:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 17:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arvanites etc.

Yes, I've noticed your behaviour regarding Greek and Albanian names. Don't worry, you'll find plenty of nationalists who care enough to remove every non-Albanian name wherever they found it so it's all good.

Regarding the Arvanites and "related ethnic groups", two lines in an infobox can't sum up an entire article where linguistic etc. relationships are explained. It has happened in other articles, such as Berbers, before so it's better to simply remove it altogether. 3rdAlcove (talk) 16:15, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No need for explanations. I can see your attitude towards Greek and Albanian names respectively. I reverted myself because I started mimicking your patterns. Anyhow, the removal of the infobox section is necessary for the reasons I mentioned above. Any criterion would be quite subjective so specific relationships are best discussed in the article (no, linguistic ties for example don't make them "related ethnic groups"). 3rdAlcove (talk) 17:52, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mirela Manjani

So would you like to say in every sentence that she was born in Albania? - Sthenel (talk) 18:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok you can mention her career in Albania in the main article instead of putting "Albania" and "Albanian" 10 times in the introduction. - Sthenel (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In biography articles "A person is a (nationality) (profession)". Why do you ignore this structure to serve your own purpose? - Sthenel (talk) 12:56, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 2008

Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test on the page Arvanites worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox. Thank you. TestEditBot (talk) 18:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Epirus

Where is exactly the discussion? You put that template. Do you think that you can ask for deletion of each article you don't agree with? - Sthenel (talk) 12:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then put the same template to Chameria - Sthenel (talk) 12:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chameria is exactly the same case with Northern Epirus. Chameria lies in Greece, nowhere in Greece is officially called Chameria. Btw the Greeks from Northern Epirus are also self indentified Vorioepirotes (Northern Epirotes), so does it make the name official? - Sthenel (talk) 12:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In this way Albanians can call themselves as they want but there is no region officially called Chameria, at least in Greece and that article refers to Greece too. - Sthenel (talk) 12:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So change the content of Chameria and talk about the Chameria of Albania only because there isn't officially any Chameria in Greece, this is a name that Albanians use. - Sthenel (talk) 13:06, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chameria is a name used by Albanian nationalists and Cham Albanians to refer to a specific area of Epirus. - Sthenel (talk) 13:15, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And again the introduction in a person biography should be like this eg "Someone is an American athlete" not "He is an athlete who represented Nigeria and then USA...". You break the rules. - Sthenel (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK provide a source that they are Albanian citizens. I may say that they are Aruban citizens. But even if you are right the standard form is one and you changed it without any reason. - Sthenel (talk) 13:24, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Albanian to read these. Whatever the truth is the standard form doesn't change. Can you get it and change them in the formal way? - Sthenel (talk) 13:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me do you understand what I'm saying? They had a career in Albania but now they are Greek citizens. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Opening paragraph on how the leading paragraph should be. It's for any person in wikipedia. - Sthenel (talk) 13:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, where is this mentioned in the paragraphs you made? Both are living persons who and they are now Greek citizens. I got exhausted, you only want to promote anything Albanian and this is the reason for every edit of yours, changing the articles in styles that you invent - Sthenel (talk) 13:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Mirela Manjani is a Greek javelin thrower", this is the correct form according to wikipedia rules. "Manjani represents Greece and prior Albania" is your informal invention with obvious reason. Your POV edits got you blocked several times. Keep in this way. - Sthenel (talk) 14:14, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My blog was more than a year before when I was new here. Keep this rewording for yourself to stress her Albanian origin. Again this is not something which should be mentioned in the opening paragraph but in the main text. However that she was born in Albania is mentioned exactly after her name. You want to play with the words but it's very boring. - Sthenel (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't relevant to subject's notability to iclude it in the start. It is clear where they were born we don't need to write in every sentence that they were born in Albania, they represented Albania, they speak Albanian and they will die in Albania. That's all from me. Do whatever you want. - Sthenel (talk) 14:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Shiko mos bëhesh ti admin, pa atë fp lëre fare, se është Grek.Provoje njëherë,na duhet një admin shqipëtar.Flasim---Taulant23 (talk) 00:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vlora

Hi Balkanian. I was thinking about that and now I think when we use "Ancient Greek" we don't need to use "archaic" because "Ancient" means archaic already. So if we say "Ancient Greek" we don't have to say "archaic:Ancient Greek" because it is redundant. Also Αυλών in Greek is "Aulon" in English. I'll try to write something in the article. Let's see. Dr.K. (talk) 18:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let me try something. See you soon. Dr.K. (talk) 18:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great edit. Thanks again. Take care. Dr.K. (talk) 18:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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Albania

Si mund ta rregullojme faqen e pare? Duhet me rregullu historine,shiko pak kete si ka qene http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Albania&oldid=193059206--Taulant23 (talk) 21:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Artikulli mbi historine ka qene me i gjate.Kishte Iliret, periudhen romake, ate Otomane dhe WWII.Pasi pati shume "zenka"(ste lene komshinjte e jugut)e vume historine e Shqiperise ne nje paragraf.Ne kemi goxha histori per nje para graf, o turp si thu?--Taulant23 (talk) 18:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Po me plak pa problem.Jane shume prandaj,ste lene rehat.--Taulant23 (talk) 18:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep up the good work!

I, Deucalionite, award you this barnstar for your helpful and intelligent contributions to the Cham Albanians article. May you serve as a shining example to all of your brethren.

Oh, and here's a cookie. Enjoy!

Cham Albanians

Sorry I took so long to respond to your suggestions. Please have a look at the edits I have made on the discussion page. Deucalionite (talk) 20:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some edits on the article and was hoping you could take a look at them when you get the chance. Deucalionite (talk) 22:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thyamis Etymology

Well, it seems you would wait this answer from somewhere else! However, I, too have the babiniotis dictionary (or lexicon) and care to help you... Now, Thyamis is Pelasgian, but the word route is unknown. It says it is parallel to Thy-amos, a mountain near lake Ambracia. Because the word is no longer used, but Kalamas is used in its place, I'll also give you the etymology of this. Kalamas comes from kalamos (kalami), the reed plant.--Michael X the White (talk) 16:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

G.Babiniotis "Lexicon of the Modern Greek Language", 2nd edition.ISBN 960-86190-1-7. The exact quote is: Thyamis (o) [Thyamidos] Kalamas river (see) [ETYM.< anc., pelasg. route , unknown etym, parall. of Thy-amos (mount near lake Ambracia)]. And in Greek: Γ.Μπαμπινιώτη "Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας" Β' Έκδοση. Θύαμις (ο) [Θυάμιδος] ο Καλαμάς (βλ.λ.) [ΕΤΥΜ. αρχ., πελασγ. αρχής, αγνώστου ετύμου, παραλλ. τ. του Θύ-αμος (όρος κοντά στην λίμνη Αμβρακία)].--Michael X the White (talk) 17:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One last thing! As Babiniotis himself recognises Pelasgians as Greeks ("all the Greek tribes in general before they broke up"), I think "Greek route" is fine there. Thanks!--Michael X the White (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cham (o) (Chamides) resident of Chameria, area of Thesprotia; (more precisely) the muslim albanophone (Turkalbanian) of Chameria, who was excepted of the population exchange with Turkey. [ETYM.uncertain route, perhaps <ancient Thyamis, river running through the area or <Sameis, ancient Thracoillyrian tribe]--Michael X the White (talk) 19:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saranda

Arditbido, take it easy! Who are you... the boss of wikipedia? Relax! Oh... as far as your question, there is no logic on what you're saying. I'll take a pass!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Delfinis (talk • contribs) 18:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greek minority in Albania

Why did you erase the history section of the article "Greek minority in Albania"? I have not finished writing it (it is mentioned in the article's talk page) and I was not being neither nationalistic nor presenting my personal opinion or view. I will add the section I wrote and I would kindly like to request you to leave it alone until it is written or collaborate if you can give another perspective. Thank you. Pel thal (talk) 20:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

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