User talk:Anne McDermott

Welcome!

Hello, Anne McDermott, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! TheRetroGuy (talk) 23:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Alternate History.

Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 21:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Anne this is Zombie Hunter Smurf. I just wanted to say that I hope this whole incident with the nominations for deletion to two of your articles hasn't turned you off from Wikipedia. Also with the nomination withdrawn from Gray Victory and support coming in for Clash of Eagles it looks like the incident might be coming to an end. I just like to once again extend an invitation to join the Alternate History WikiProject. The articles covering the genre of alternate history need a lot of work on them to bring them up to the Wikipedia quality. I hope that you can join in these efforts.Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Colonial Gazette

An article that you have been involved in editing, Colonial Gazette, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colonial Gazette. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Ecoleetage (talk) 03:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Clash of Eagles

I have nominated Clash of Eagles, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clash of Eagles. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Tan ǀ 39 00:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Gray Victory

I have nominated Gray Victory, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gray Victory. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Tan ǀ 39 00:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, explanation of AfDs, sympathy, etc

Hi there Anne. I recently nominated two articles you created for deletion, as you can see above. I wanted to drop you a personal note and let you know that I really appreciate you taking the time to try to improve Wikipedia, especially in areas you are interested in (alternative history). As it turns out, I don't believe that either of these books are notable enough for inclusion here on Wikipedia - see the specific guideline for establishing book notability here. Also, per your !vote at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colonial Gazette, it seems that perhaps you don't quite understand what is necessary for establishing a reliable source here, which is a foundation of our non-negotiable verifiability policy. However, your articles have not yet been deleted; in fact, most of these discussions run for several days. This gives you time to refute the deletion argument and perhaps establish notability and references. While I googled around a bit and didn't find anything, perhaps you can, or have an offline source that shows these books meet our notability criteria. If you have any questions, by all means, ask away - I'm here to help. Check out my user page, too; we might have some common historical interests, or you might be interested in joining one of the Wikipedia projects. Tan ǀ 39 01:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Zeitoun (disambiguation)

Hello, Anne, and welcome to the world of wiki disambiguation! Many thanks for having a go at improving this page.

As you can see, I've just made some changes, and thought I ought to let you know some of the reasons. These have to do with the purpose of disambiguation pages, which is to direct the reader to the page he or she might be interested in. So the aim is to provide the minimum information to enable the reader to distinguish the target pages – no more, no less: it is not a place for info that belongs in the target articles.

A few points:

in general, only one blue link per line, namely the article most likely to be of interest to our readers
no piping (except for formatting) - the reader should be able to see the full article name
I removed the note about German Zeit – otherwise we open these pages up to any sort of vaguely (un)connected info. It is, of course, also pronounced quite differently from (the first syllable of) Zeitoun.

I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time looking at the advice in WP:MOSDAB on how to write disambiguation pages. It's basically common sense, but there's a lot of detail, and nobody ever gets it right first time! I've tried to retain as many as possible of your changes. If you'd like any help, just drop a note on my talk page.

Hope this helps,

--NSH001 (talk) 20:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS. I've ignored at least one rule in WP:MOSDAB – see if you can spot it!

Yael

Do you have a source for this? It currently very much reads as OR, which is unfortunate. --Dweller (talk) 15:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

István Türr

Thanks for your addition at István Türr. I just passed through to do some subbing to fix links, as part of a larger kinda mid term goal we (User:Monkap) and I have to get the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 on its feet. So far we have only done the battles but are moving on to the biogs etc and do a few along our way.

We have something you may be able to help us with: Lajos Kossuth is sometimes mentioned as Louis Kossuth, but only ever (and not just on WP but on Google) in old book references. Would you know, or could you guess, that this was his given name when he was known in the United States/America? As far as we can find out, he never went there but was known there, and I hazarded a guess it may be because the 48 revolution was not long before the [[[American Civil War]]. Like that Thomas Paine manage to set a few wheels turning both in the Colonies and then in France. Though he preferred a pub to a battlefield.

Thanks for the edit, it is good, though I might have a good go and just gnoming that article, but not to make any substantial change, just wikifying, as it is one on the list though minor from our perspective trying to get the revolution ship-shape and Bristol fashion. It's great (I mean it) that when a small change like this is made, others add to it.

Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 00:23, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for yours. Neither did we have any knowledge of the Revolution of 1848 we just saw the appalling state of the battle articles and translated them from the Hungarian. Which is not perfect but is a start. Library resources here are are appalling, you would think a university town like Cambridge would have a decent public library, but its coverage of Hungarian history is, basically, nonexistent. I can't access the college libraries because I am not a Cambridge graduate. Of course we have some books in Hungarian but it would be nicer to have English references.

Thanks for the hints there with Kossuth. I've changed it in most places to Lajos, especially when referring to events in his life before or during the Revolution, but left it as Louis in the few American articles that use it. I'd prefer to use his correct given name if I can; I don't see the point of anglicising his name if he never used that name himself. But the titles of the books do seem to indicate he was known by the name Louis, at least in later life. Si Trew (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way if you need any assistance with the Türr article e.g. translating from the Hungarian (assuming you don't speak it yourself), just ask me or User:Monkap and we'll do our best to help. Or if you'd like e.g. related Hungarian geographical articles expanded from stubs, we can do that for you. Si Trew (talk) 22:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The story beginning on p. 6 ("Jókai Mór Olaszországban") is "Mór Jókai's Italian diary" (of his travels in Italy). Sec 4. "Garibáldi", simply says that Jókai passed on Türr's regards to Garibaldi, and nnot much more. The chap on the left is of course Jókai and the fellow on the right is, I presume

It's getting late here (we're on UTC) so if you want to let us know how much you need translated (just that section?) we'll do it tomorrow, Monday.

Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 23:38, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mind you the conversation in Sec 2 with the pope might be rather fun to translate. It's half Latin, half Hungarian, like that he can't really speak Latin but is trying his best and keeps dropping into Hungarian. There is also "toujours" twice there, which is French, and on the whole it seems like it is making fun of him at not being able to speak it properly. Whether, or how, one translates that, is quite the thing! (Fortunately I am reasonably competent in Latin and French so you have picked the right people if you do want it done!) Si Trew (talk) 23:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The translation of the Garibaldi section is roughly as follows:

“

My last stop was at Garibaldi’s. I gave him István Türr's kind regards, who had provided a map of Ferenc's sewers, which Garibaldi wanted to use in Rome. Garibaldi's plans were well advanced. He showed me a bottle of seawater, which he wanted to see in the Port of Rome, and a box of soil for the people of Maremma, who wanted to drain it. Most of the work has already been done in the Tiber channel [or canal]; he only needs a couple of million francs to finish it. He asked me whether he could borrow five hundred million francs from Hungary, it being such a very rich country that the people bathed in milk and honey. I answered that Hungary was rich, but not that rich. If he would accept payment in raw materials – cows and bees – we might be able to muster the loan. The hero of Marsala [i.e. Garibaldi], who understands little of finance, was very happy, and ask me that when I return to Hungary I meet with cowherds and beekepers. I will do this for him, as I am part of the Hungarian Cattle-Breeders ’ Association, and a member of the Beekeepers’ Association too.

”

According to Hungarian Wikipédia, [hu:Borsszem Jankó] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) ("Peppercorn Johnny", a diminutive folk-tale character, and thus ineffective), was a political satirical weekly, one of the most poplular in the nineteenth century. Its name alludes to being the "little guy" against the "big guys" in politics. It did not have any political stance beyond attacking the "great and the good" of the day. It is an important historical document as many famous Hungarian writers and artists supplied material for the paper.

Best wishes, season's greetings. Si Trew (talk) 16:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I am Monkap, SimonTrew's girlfriend. He asked me to put this link for you. Yes, the oringal is "Ferencz-csatornájat", "csatorná" is canal. It is in the Pallas encyclopedia on the internet: here (in Hungarian).

I also found an article on English WP Danube–Tisa–Danube Canal (hu:Duna–Tisza–Duna-csatorna ) (in Hungarian). There is a short section entitled [A Türr István zsilip] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) ("The István Terr lock"), which is in the Hungarian article. The English version doesn't say much about this canal or anything about Türr. If you need help with it just shout. Happy christmas - Monkap (talk) 10:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With your permission, I suggest that this conversation (on both sides) be moved to Talk:István Türr. Si Trew (talk) 11:00, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While I think of it "a map of Ferenc's sewer/drain/canal" could instead be "a plan of...". Literally the translation is "plan", but we tend to translate as "map" (e.g. plan of a battle is not the plan of attack, but a map of how it unfolded), but in this case may be better left as "plan". Si Trew (talk) 14:01, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I follwed your suggestion and copied the entire discussion from the two user pages to Talk:István Türr, and will continue the discussion there.Anne McDermott (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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October 2012

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Edit summaries, multiple consecutive edits

Hello Anne, and thanks for your contributions. A couple general editing notes if you don't mind:

When you make a change to an article, please make a habit of providing an edit summary. Doing so helps your colleagues here understand the intention of your edit.
Plus, it will also be easier for you and your co-editors to collaborate on articles if, instead of making multiple consecutive edits in rapid succession on an article, you use the "Show preview" button to view your changes incrementally before finally saving the page once you're satisfied with your edits. This will keep the edit history of the page less cluttered. Regards, Eric ^talk 18:14, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I will keep this in mind.Anne McDermott (talk) 19:34, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Telemachus (Acragas), Anne McDermott!

Wikipedia editor Kieranian2001 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Reviewed as part of page curation. Could be expanded to longer article. Already tagged as needing citations and references.Kieranian2001 (talk) 13:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

To reply, leave a comment on Kieranian2001's talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Quintana Olleras

The article Quintana Olleras has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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Nomination of Quintana Olleras for deletion

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The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quintana Olleras until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Rembrandt

Did you mean to reduce the article a third? Several whole sections have just been removed. It this was deliberate, you should have proposed/discussed such drastic changes on the talk page first, especially on a GA - please do that now. Johnbod (talk) 12:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly did not mean any such act, and I don't really understand how it happened. My only intention with Rembrandt was to copy an image which I thought could fit on another page, not in any way interfere with the Rembrandt page itself - and most certainly not in such a drastic way. Fortunately any such stupid mistake can be reverted and should, and I will try to be VERY careful in the future to avoid it happening again. Anne McDermott (talk) 21:56, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks. I think you must have edited on a really old version - from 2018 as far as I can see (last time it was that size). Some the changes to "your" version were improvements, I thought. Hmmm. Johnbod (talk) 23:36, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please preview, consolidate, and summarize

Below are a few editing suggestions to make it easier for you and others to collaborate on the encyclopedia. Please preview, consolidate, and summarize your edits:

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Thanks in advance for considering these suggestions. Eric ^talk 14:19, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source

Could you perhaps also add a source to the statement you recently added to the Jerusalem article, that Fairuzabadi spent 10 years there? Debresser (talk) 18:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Fairuzabadi page from which I copied the information did not give a source, either. The page is copied from an old entry of the Encyclopædia Britannica, which did not provide any sources. But I found a source for the Jerusalem years and added it to both pages. Anne McDermott (talk) 15:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Very good. Thank you for this. Debresser (talk) 11:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. Anne McDermott (talk) 13:12, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

October 2020

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Brave New World into another page. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk🌴Help out at CCI!} 15:30, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did it. Better late than never!Anne McDermott (talk) 15:41, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Psalm 84

Your addition to the psalm is touching, but you absolutely have to add a reliable source for that, or someone - not me - will remove it. Everything on Wikipedia needs to be verifiable. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:23, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reminding me of this fundamental fact of Wikipedia life. Actually, the Putten raid page from which I took the information did not give any source, and no one removed it. But I know, this is no excuse. I googled for "Putten + Psalm" and immediately got a torrent of Dutch-language sites, including official ones of the Dutch government and Putten municipality, and even without reading Dutch you can easily verify that this Psalm is indeed significant for Putten. I put in the first four links, which should be enough. I could have also put in ten or more. Anne McDermott (talk) 17:17, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think I must have been unclear ;) - should I have said "one reliable source", instead of "a reliable source". Please use the Putten one (#2), and try to format it in the way the rest of the references is written. Facebook and YouTube are no reliable sources, ever. Will you manage? - I have more to do right now than I can manage, or would do it myself. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:31, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first two are websites of the Putten municipality I would say a reliable source for the ceremony organised by that municipality and for a very traumatic event in their history. And can Facebook and YouTube not be reliable sources when you get a video where people are singing that Psalm?

I said "not me" already. It's not me who says that we shouldn't use Facebook and YouTube. Will you please install ref #2 properly, giving title, author, date, date retrieved? This is a GA, and just urls that you don't even see are unacceptable, and this is me saying so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't and I had the choice to do it myself, or delete the whole thing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:49, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I have been editing Wikipedia on and off for some years, but I certainly don't know how to do it the way you did, that what you see is just "Koster 2014" and when you click on that you see the reference. Well, if that is the proper way it should be done, so be it. The most important to me is that the story of Putten stays on this page, it definitely belongs there.Anne McDermott (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are many ways of referencing, and most editor's like when all references in an article are the same style. The higher the quality the more eagerness. The way you proposed, just links and no help for the reader as to who published that when in which language, was unacceptable for an article of Good article quality. Even if you are unfamiliar with a referencing style I thought you might have copied from others in the article, no? Anyway, Happy editing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:17, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Live and learn. I suppose it should not be too difficult to master this method of referencing, for future occasions. Anne McDermott (talk) 21:07, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Die Konferenz der Tiere moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Die Konferenz der Tiere, has no sources and citations, and cannot therefore, as written, remain published. It needs citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've had to move this to drafts, because there wasn't a single source cited. If you can add a couple of solid references to support especially statements in the lede para, this can then be moved back to the article space.

I also wanted to ask whether the English translation of the original title is yours, or whether you know that this book has been published in English under that title? If it has, then the article should probably be moved under that name, although that's something that can be done after it has been moved back into the main space. Best, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Animals United, could be the English translation. Will look at the draft, - remind me if I forget, - many pending things already. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good shout. The film seems quite notable, judging by the cast if nothing else, so we can probably assume they either did their research as to the English title, or they didn't but effectively established the title. Either way, I'm certainly happy with "Animals United" as the English name, and suggest that this article eventually be moved to that. We just need to find a few RS references now... --DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:36, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I actually read it in Hebrew, which I can read with some difficulty, while visiting friends in Tel Aviv. They had given it to their ten year old child, but I felt it was quite good reading material for adults, and the illustrations were gorgeous. The Animals United film is said to be loosely based on the book, but from I see of the plot it is VERY loosely - about the only thing left of the original is that it is about Good Guy animals organizing against Bad Guy humans - everything else is different. I don't know if the original book was published in English and if so under what name, will try to find out. The German Wikipedia page "Die Konferenz der Tiere (Roman)" [1] gives some sources, and I am sure more German-language reliable sources can be easily found. Anyway, will work on it when I find time, one of the coming days.Anne McDermott (talk) 15:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am German and said I'll look, only I'm booked for at least a week, - patience please. I linked the film only for a possible English translation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I leave it to you. You are certainly better qualified. Anne McDermott (talk) 11:21, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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A barnstar for your efforts

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I’m so glad you returned to active editing!100.40.76.131 (talk) 15:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC) 100.40.76.131 (talk) 15:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Jerusalem News

Hi Anne, It is a great idea to have information on Jerusalem News, but it isn't really relevant to the Jerusalem Post and it looks out of place there. Sooner or later, someone will delete it as off-topic. Can I suggest a separate article? Incidentally there is a lot of information in McCrackan's book "The New Palestine" [2]. If you start an article and ping me, I will try to contribute. Cheers, Zero^talk 07:32, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, all the sources I have and the newspaper itself give the title as "Jerusalem News" rather than "The Jerusalem News". Zero^talk 09:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have been drawn into this by chance, noticing a reference in the Talbot Mundy page. It made me curious because I visited Israel many times and know quite a lot of people there and I don't think any of them ever heard of this paper.Anne McDermott (talk) 14:03, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, this newspaper is almost totally forgotten. It deserves a new day in the (wiki-)sun. Zero^talk 14:40, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What I had were just a few scarps of information, not enough to make a real article - at most a stub. So I felt I could insert it as a kind of "prehistory" of The Jerusalem Post, though in truth it was a completely different paper with a completely different editorial line. "The New Palestine" which I did not know about makes all the difference - this is a superabundance of information. I am going to read it carefully (it looks interesting) and note the salient facts which should go into a real article. But this will have to wait a few days, it can't be done just in a spare half an hour I have in between my other activities and obligations. For the time being, I think I will leave what I wrote in the page of The Jerusalem Post. If somebody deletes it, I can always extract the text from the earlier version in the history. I think you are right about the paper's name not including "The", I was misled by the analogy with "The Jerusalem Post". This I will correct immediately. Anne McDermott (talk) 15:12, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

McCrackan's own page should be updated. Clearly, activities in Palestine were a major concern for him in his last years. He was among the various outsiders who try to be fair and impartial between Jews/Zionists/Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians. Anyone trying that (today as a hundred years ago) can end up being attacked and denounced by both (I speak from personal experience...). McCrackan deserves to be remembered for what what he tried! Anne McDermott (talk) 15:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Talbot Mundy page includes the statement that "Having identified itself as a wartime paper, the Jerusalem News ceased publication after the transition from British military rule to the British civilian rule of Mandatory Palestine", which would mean that it continued publication until 1922. But I think that in fact, it ended in June 1920 and that the copies preserved in the Library of Congress are all that there was ever published. I think that the above was told by Mundy to his biographer many years later. "The New Palestine" should provide an authoritative answer. If I am right, then the Talbot Mundy page also needs to be corrected! A lot of work to do, and I WILL do it. Anne McDermott (talk) 15:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see in another library catalogue "Began with Vol. 1, no. 1 (Dec. 9, 1919); ceased with Vol. 1, no. 151 (June 8, 1920)". The same appears in the British Library catalogue, and "1919–1920" appears in the National Library of Israel catalogue. However, this doesn't contradict the story about civilian rule, since that started on 1 July 1920, see High Commissioners for Palestine and Transjordan. A civilian government was established before the peace with Turkey was official and before the mandate came into effect. Incidentally, there was an earlier English newspaper of sorts called the "The Palestine News" published by the military during 1918–1919. It had a mixture of news and official announcements. It was published weekly rather than daily, so it doesn't disprove the "earliest English daily newspaper" claim. Zero^talk 00:58, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ahah! Read the first column of the scan on the right. Zero^talk 01:01, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that leaves no doubt that indeed the paper ceased publication in June 1920 and no later. I suspect that the move to a civilian government was not the real reason. There might have been more mundane reasons such as not enough readers or not enough money - these are the normal reasons why newspapers cease publication. Is there any reference to this in "The New Palestine"? Anne McDermott (talk) 05:16, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile, I corrected the reference to the paper's name, without "The". Anne McDermott (talk) 05:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a way of accessing the issues for April 5, 6, 7, 8, 1920? It would be interesting to see how the paper reported on the 1920 Nebi Musa riots which were in effect the first battle of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict though Israel did not yet exist and the Arabs of Palestine did not yet call themselves "Palestinians". Anne McDermott (talk) 23:04, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alas I have no access to it. I only see a sparse selection of random pages around the internet. You can download The New Palestine from here. In there is a chapter about Jerusalem News and a chapter called "The first demonstration against Zionism". I doesn't read anything like the April riots but no date is given so it could be either a different event or a white-washed version of the real events. I notice that in the chapter about Jerusalem News he writes of severe military censorship. Zero^talk 02:18, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am in the process of reading it, quite interesting and vivid descriptions of the situation in Palestine though from a very clearly blinkered point to view. Of course he had an extremely patronizing and colonialist attitude, believed that Arabs were unable to govern themselves and that being ruled by the British Empire was the most lucky thing which could happen to them. I don't know if you noticed the reference to his household having picked up a young Black boy from the Negev who was living as vagabond in the Old City of Jerusalem and employing him as a servant and then just casually noting that "The boy tried to run away so we had to get the police to bring him back". Just like that. He does not explain what legal grounds they had to get the British police to do that Anne McDermott (talk) 19:09, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the paper was founded by a woman, Elizabeth Lippincott McQueen. A quite important women, who afterwards went on to have a major role in getting women to pilot airplanes - which to my mind means she was not somebody who would easily let men push her around. She gets a total of one (1) mention in the whole chapter about the Jerusalem News. "At the request of the founder of the paper, Mrs. Elizabeth L. McQueen, I wrote a letter to Governor Storrs on November 11, 1919". That's it. No mention of how did she come to found the paper, how did the editorship pass to him, did she have any role in managing the paper once he took over. Nothing. I have a clear impression that he was very full of himself. What he wrote about what he himself did might be factually true, but he might have omitted important things done by others.Anne McDermott (talk) 19:27, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found this [3] which gives much information not given in "The New Palestine". Anne McDermott (talk) 20:07, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is some more: [4] ⁨⁨The Sentinel⁩⁩, 3 September 1920 SAYS AMERICANS BACK IN JERUSALEM ANTISEMITIC PAPER. Charges that members of the American Colony in Jerusalem are back of the Jerusalem Gazette which poses as a Syrian publication and whose policy is bitter opposition to Zionism , are made in the Jewish Morning Journal by Prof . Nahum Slousch . The Gazette , according to Prof . Slousch , formerly of the faculty of the Sorbonne University , Paris , is even more virulent in its opposition to the establishment of the Jewish Homeland than the lecently suspended daily the Jerusalem News , founded by Talbot Mundy and published in the capital of Palestine ostensibly to cement friendly relations between Great Britain and America , but , as was pointed out at the time by the Zionist Publicity Department, was an active factor in the incitement of native Arab population against the Jews . Concerning the Gazette Prof . Slousch writes from Jerusalem : A number of American anti-Semites , and others doing missionary work are conducting a systematic campaign against the Jews . Just as soon as the American publication , The Jerusalem News closed down , its place was taken by The Jerusalem Gazette , which makes it its business to instigate the Arabs against the Jews and constantly informs them that the Allies are robbing them of their country. It is set forth in its columns that the publication is a purely Syrian effort , but it is well known here that the paper is printed in the Syrian orphanage , originally a Geiman institution which is now being conducted by the American and English mission , an institution where the Ameiican anti-Zionist is particularly welcomed and where all the enemies of Zionism are grouping themselves in an effort to thwart the establishment of friendly relations between Jews and Aiabs . Were it not for these disturbing outside influences , were it not for the large sums of relief money sent from America for Syrian relief , the Arabs would have been pacified long ago , for they are themselves beginning to realize that they have been misled . The majority of the American Colony is very friendly to the Jews . The opposition is led by a small , influential group which at the time of the Easter-Day riots in Jerusalem prevented the outer world from getting the facts until the American consul Dr . Otis Glazebrook intervened . Prof . Slousch pays a high tribute to Dr . Glazebrook , whose efforts , he says , saved Palestinian Jewry from starvation during the war. Anne McDermott (talk) 20:18, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, what a find. Zero^talk 02:56, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found some more. There is online a copy of the Jerusalem Gazatte. https://www.reddit.com/r/arabs/comments/ho6w41/the_jerusalem_gazette_from_july_15th_1920/ Anne McDermott (talk) 21:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was a bilingual paper, called Jerusalem Gazatte in English and Al-Quds al-Sharif⁩ in Arabic. It was founded by a man called Hassan Sidqi Al-Dajani, member of an aristocratic Palestinian Jerusalem family, who was just twenty years old, a rather liberal activist who - unlike most other Arabs in Palestine - was willing to accept the Balfour Declaration and work against Zionism within its limits. I think a sensible and capable person. He was assassinated in 1938 in a faction struggle between Palestinians, which I think was a great loss to the Palestinian People. http://www.passia.org/personalities/467 Anne McDermott (talk) 21:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem Gazatte/Al-Quds al-Sharif⁩ was not a direct continuation of Jerusalem News - the one an American paper claiming neutrality between Arabs and Zionists, the other an Arab Nationalist paper clearly opposed to Zionism, though in a subtle and nuanced way. But Jerusalem Gazatte started one month after Jerusalem News ended, it was printed in the same place where Jerusalem News was published - "The Syrian Orphanage" - and probably used the same printing press and likely employed the former staff of Jerusalem News. There were not than many jobs to be had in Jerusalem, they would have been very happy to find a new employer. And there must have been some Americans - or other English-speaking Westerners - employed by Jerusalem Gazatte. Some of the Gazatte articles were clearly written by Westerners, not by Arabs. So it might be that some of the Jerusalem News Americans remained in Jerusalem after McCrackan left. This account [5] says that Talbot Mundy was more sympathetic to Arab aspirations for independence and broke with McCrackan over that, so very possibly he was working for Jerusalem Gazzette without his name appearing. But I don't think it would be easy to prove or disprove this. There is a lot of material about Mundy in the net, but mostly concentrated on the books he wrote. They all mention his having been in Jerusalem in 1920, but not in detail - no one was interested if he left Jerusalem in June 1920 or stayed until the end of the year. The second case would increase the probability of his having been involved in the Jerusalem Gazatte. Anne McDermott (talk) 21:33, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I also identified the place where both the News and the Gazette were printed and where McCrackan & Co. had live. "The Syrian Orphanage" was the same as the Schneller Orphanage [6], a very well-known German-run institution which was founded in the 19th Century, was interrupted for some years by the First World War when it was taken over by the British, was returned to the Germans in 1921 and continued until 1940 when it was finally closed down and became the Schneller Camp of the British Army and later the Israeli Army. It is a well-known Jerusalem landmark, if you stay in Jerusalem and get a native Jerusalemite to show you around, he or she is certain to point out "Here is Schneller". Anne McDermott (talk) 21:43, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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