User talk:Android79/TalkArchive017

Road swimming

why did you delete my page, i was working on it? i had like a good 5 paragraphs i was just adding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlcopperfield (talk • contribs)

Because it's nonsense. Please don't add garbage to Wikipedia. android 79 02:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

dude, its one hundred percent legit. it actually looks pretty cool. and if i wanted to add some bs article, then why would i be arguing to keep it?

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that line, I could retire. android 79 02:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

could you at least let me keep the article for 1 day, and them i'll delete it?

Why would you only want to keep the article for one day if it was "dude one hundred percent legit"? android 79 02:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

because you don't believe me, and i just wanted to show the dude who made up the sport

Nope, sorry. android 79 02:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i think that's just a little unreasonable, he worked had to make something new and original. i have used wikipedia for a long time, i even used it some take home tests, and if someone screwed around with the articles i would have failed, so why would i want to make someone else get screwed over. no one is going to search "road swimming" anyways.

No. android 79 02:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

alrite, fine you dont have to be so mean about it. i think we're done here.

SBIOA (Chennai Circle)

Can u give a reason for ur deletion . Jeph paul 17:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No context. android 79 17:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Funtrivia

Hey Android79! I do not want to be annoying, but why did you delete the Funtrivia page that I created? Did I not have enough information or something like that? Please write me back and tell me what I did wrong!

Also, Android79... can I try to make a better Funtrivia page or is the whole category of Funtrivia restrcited right now?

Happy "Late" First Edit

Happy First Edit Day

Happy First Edit Day, Android79', from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! User:SmackBot (talk) 07:02, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

FROM YOUR FRIEND:

ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 00:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fudgie Frottage

Android79, I was creating a page for a drag king character named Fudgie Frottage, whose real name is Lu Read. I was using the Kiki & Herb wikipedia page as a model.

Fudgie is referred to in wikipedia under drag kings and san francisco drag king contest.

I also backed the article up with legitimate press articles from the san francisco chronicle and eros-zine.

You deleted it calling it a "hoax" and a "joke" --- why, then is Kiki & Herb allowed to be listed on wikipedia? Perhaps I need to qualify the posting, but while Fudgie Frottage is a drag character the way Kiki or Herb is, he is not a hoax!

Dr.feel.goo--Dr.feel.goo 03:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on your talk page. android 79 03:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Old soldiers' home

Android79, thanks for your contributions and editor control.

I was trying to add a citation on the "Old Soldiers Home" page because I was reading Ulysses Grant's memoires and had come upon his mention that General Winfield Scott had collected money from Mexico's big cities and had used half of it to fund the Old Soldiers Home. I'm lame and didn't take the time to figure out exactly how to do that but I did include page, chapter, and on line link to his memoirs at Gutenberg.

Would you still like such a citation? Is the info I previously included still available? If not, I can quickly find it again in the memoirs.

I'm a newbie with regard to page edits but am a Wikipedia enthusiast and so would like to learn how to do this well.

thanks,

grbs5000@yahoo.com

Grbs5000 17:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently I don't even know how to "start a new topic". The topic is "Old Soldiers Home citation needed".

Church of Spider Pig

My page didn't hurt anyone, was clearly marked as parody, and it was suggested that i not give it it's own page but instead add a small section to the other page like i did, I was just having a bit of fun.--Corystahl 03:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And I deleted it, because it has no place on Wikipedia. What did you expect? android 79 03:13, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You have a definite attitude problem...

Thanks, I do try. android 79 03:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You need some sun, time to venture out from your mothers basement, be sure to make your trip quick though, Wikipedia might fall to pieces without your protection!--Corystahl 03:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My mother doesn't have a basement. I do, however, need some sun. Thanks for the tip! android 79 03:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Project Elephant

The copyrighted part was not added by me, you must check the history before commenting. You have also deleted the uncopyrighted part. Thus i understood that u haven't read da original page. You must be brave to remove anything wrong in Wikipedia. But, I request to be a bit more careful while commenting. I also request u to revive the article. As per i remember i have added only first 5-6 lines. It was not in my watchlist, so i couldn't watch it. Thank u. And please get me out of having a badname. 10:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Project Elephant was launched in 1992 by the Government of India to assist states having free ranging population of wild elephants. The project was aimed at ensuring long term survival of identified viable population of elephants in their natural habitats. This project is currently implemented in 13 statesnamely,Andhra Pradesh , Arunachal Pradesh , Assam , Jharkhand , Karnataka , Kerala , Meghalaya , Nagaland , Orissa , Tamil Nadu , Uttranchal , Uttar Pradesh and West Bengal.

Only the above part was added by me. Pls. see the original history. Now I have also given the reference As well. I have created the page again. Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 14:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I trust that this has been taken care of. If not, let me know here. android 79 17:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AXA (artist)

The page was created to make note that AXA is also an acronym of the pseudonym Augustus X Augustus - a visual artist whose work in another medium is known and respected and who has used AXA and Augustus X Augustus as a pseudonym since 1980 in various art works, forms and media. It was intended as an introductory page with additional content expected.

Books of collage works using the pseudonyms are included in the collections of Franklin Furnace and other repositories of artists books.

Works under the artist's real name are included in numerous private collections and in various world class collections and specialty collections like the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University and the Photographic Archives at the University of Louisville.

Why was it so quickly deleted ? I think it would have been appropriate to see if additional content was forthcoming.

By what means might the information be added to Wiki ?

Thanks

Also please note from Wiki guidelines: "Before nominating an article for speedy deletion, consider whether it could be improved or reduced to a stub; if so, speedy deletion is probably inappropriate. Contributors sometimes create articles over several edits, so try to avoid deleting a page too soon after its creation if it appears incomplete. Users nominating a page for speedy deletion should specify which criteria the page meets, and consider notifying the page's creator."

Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AXA13 (talk • contribs).

I deleted it for the exact reasons someone else left on your talk page: the article appears to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Please read Wikipedia:Notability for more information. android 79 19:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added the quote from the Wiki guidelines about trying "to avoid deleting a page too soon after its creation" and I have added more info re the original subject above. I would like for you to please reconsider the deletion since the entry was so new and additional content would certainly have been added if more time had been allowed.

Thanks very much, C. Silver —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AXA13 (talk • contribs).

You are welcome to re-create the article. In order to avoid deletion, make sure to address concerns with notability in the first version of the new article, and also add some verifiable sources. If you need material that was previously deleted, I can retrieve it for you. Please continue this discussion in this section (click the "edit" link next to the "AXA (artist)" heading) and sign your posts with ~~~~. android 79 19:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cock-a-roach

Android79, i had just begun an article titled "cock-a-roach" and before i was even close to being finished with it, it was deleted by you. How could you decide that the article wasn't wiki worthy without understanding the relevance or even seeing the complete article?

Billy zabka —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billy zabka (talk • contribs).

The article, as I saw it, was simply an attack page, created solely to disparage Cowboys fans. Now, I hate the Cowboys as much as you do, but this isn't appropriate for Wikipedia. If the "cock-a-roach" nickname is somehow significant outside the fandom of a particular talk radio personality, it might deserve its own page, but if anywhere, this information belongs in the Howard Eskin article. android 79 19:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is significant and it already is mentioned in the Howard Eskin Article. You being naive to the term shouldn't be reason to pull the article.

That wasn't the reason. WP:CSD#G10 and WP:CSD#A7 were the reasons. android 79 17:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back

I noticed you are active editing again, so welcome back. Also when you going to write those baseball articles again :p. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 20:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! If you can't tell, I'm mostly doing speedies for now, but I will probably get back to the baseball project sooner or later. android 79 17:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sweet Diss and the Comebacks

I am a long time fan of the band, and was very disappointed to see that they have been deleted! They may have not done any national tours, but I live in San Pedro (Southern California) and they live somewhere in Washington, and I know about them! So do my friends. Also, they recently did a song called "Pam Pong" for a documentary about fans of the NBC show "The Office", which has been gaining in popularity every week, not to mention Jenna Fisher HERSELF (she plays Pam, on The Office) has added the song to her myspace profile! Check it out at www.myspace.com/pambeesley. If that's not notable, I don't know what the heck is!

76.171.21.167Blake 8/4/07

That's notable? Wow. Just, wow. See WP:BAND. android 79 17:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bryan Christopher Norman, Digital Reality, Inc

You deleted a significant amount of work regarding a company in an emergent technology field by marking it for speedy deletion and subsequently deleting the entire page within 12 hours of the notification. This is obsurd and I assume you are obviously overworked and or new to Wiki to treat others this way. I understand and agree that Wiki is not a spamming ground and it must be policed however; interpretation of the law is half the issue here. You deleted Digital Reality, Inc. on the grounds that it is blatent advertising. I argue that Terrafugia, for example, is a speculative wiki for a producvt that Henry Ford originally tried to market and subsequently dozens of others have also failed. Terrafugia has garnered some limited press coverage but its all bad. they are praised for trying but scoffed at or laughed at by anyone important in aviation. The best known example of a flying car concept is the Moller Skycar which is a twenty-year-in-the-making and yet-to-actually-fly concept vehicle.

Digital Reality, Inc. is a Texas C. Corporation, with 12 employees, 4 investors, 3 patents pending that is led by a recognized, published and educated academic professional with a BSME, MBA and 12-year member of the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. He has spoken at multiple Society of Manufacturing Engineers conventions and trade shows on Rapid Manufacturing and is well known in the global manufacturing community.

I used Terrafugia as an example of the thousands and perhaps tens-of-thousands of similar wiki posts with very little merit. You have to be consistant or you have to be tolerant. Inconsistancy fuels aggrevation and retaliation. Consistancy and patience (along with a good demeanor) will limit the hate mail. Please consider follwing policy before action and proper use of wiki guidelines including adequate edit time of at least 48 hours before deletion. Some of us may be in China when you post!

Also: Wiki policy regarding businesses posted does not state that these sorts of posts mean automatic deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcn0209 (talk • contribs)

Let's break this down a bit...
by marking it for speedy deletion – No, Kww (talk · contribs) marked it for deletion. I carried out the deletion.

you are obviously overworked and or new to Wiki – No on both counts.

You deleted Digital Reality, Inc. on the grounds that it is blatent advertising. – I sure did, because that's what it was. Speedy deletion policy backs me up on this, no matter how long the page was around.

I used Terrafugia as an example of the thousands and perhaps tens-of-thousands of similar wiki posts with very little merit. You have to be consistant or you have to be tolerant. – The existence of another article you find distasteful does not invalidate the deletion of your article. Terrafugia is quite obviously not blatant spam, and it also has a skepticism section and references. You are comparing apples and oranges. The Terrafugia article may well deserve deletion, but it is not spam in its present state.

Please consider follwing policy before action and proper use of wiki guidelines including adequate edit time of at least 48 hours before deletion. – There is no such guideline. Blatant spam may be speedily deleted.

Also: Wiki policy regarding businesses posted does not state that these sorts of posts mean automatic deletion. – Blatant spam may be deleted on sight, per policy.

Digital Reality, Inc. is a Texas C. Corporation, with 12 employees [...] – Your company may indeed warrant an article on Wikipedia. The one you created is not it, since it was blatant spam, and you shouldn't be the one writing it.
android 79 15:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black0ps

I was working on that Black0ps topic, so why has it gone? I planned to make it amazo. 81.129.174.219 17:14, 5 August 2007 (UTC) MicrosoftSammels[reply]

Because someone tagged it for speedy deletion, and I found that it fit the criteria, so I deleted it. Wikipedia is not a web directory. android 79 17:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Adminitis

A template you created, Template:Adminitis, has been marked for deletion as a deprecated and orphaned template. If, after 14 days, there has been no objection, the template will be deleted. If you wish to object to its deletion, please list your objection here and feel free to remove the {{deprecated}} tag from the template. If you feel the deletion is appropriate, no further action is necessary. Cheers. --MZMcBride 20:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem with its deletion. If you can do it faster by policy, go right ahead. android 79 20:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beto y Los Fairlanes

Hello, you deleted the article I created for the above band which spans a four decade history, and has appeared on television in front of a national audience on Austin City Limits. The article was extensive, though a stub, and it had several contributing editors. I see no good reason for the speedy deletion, especially since it only gave notice of less than a single day, with no chance for discussion, or for placement of the "{{hangon}}" tag. Now it seems that all of the content is lost. Please advise how to recover the page. Thanks, Steven Russell 22:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also with the band having at least two albums available on Amazon.com spanning a period longer than a decade, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-8168861-0512858?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music&field-artist=Beto%20and%20the%20Fairlanes and a biographical writeup of the band on vh1.com, I fail to see how you justified your deletion as a Candidate for Speedy Deletion. Seems highly inconsistent with the criteria listed on the CSD page.Steven Russell 23:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, that was a bad call. I have restored the page. android79 01:27, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, hey thank your very much for the restore, I really appreciatate it!! Steven Russell 01:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AiselneDrossel/sandbox → User:AiselneDrossel/sandbox

I was asked to move the page to my user sub page which is what I did and I requested the original sandbox I created in the mainspace was speedily deleted. Why has my new sandbox been deleted? It had over an hours template work there which I believe I can no longer recover. AiselneDrossel 10:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... I deleted your sandbox because it had {{db-author}} on it, and it fit the criteria (only edited by you, deletion requested by you). Therefore, I assumed you no longer needed the sandbox. You should have instead requested that the redirect created by the move be deleted. I'll see if I can fix this. android 79 15:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have restored the deleted edits. They are available in the page's history. android 79 15:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delmore Atom

Android79,

I tried to create an Article on an influential musical artist in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. Please help me understand the changes I need to make to the content/structure to get the artical accepted/posted.

Please advise.

Tom Monari 08/06/2007

Ruffhaus 16:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Li, 理

Hi Android,

I am not too used to the discussion pages and all that, so I might have missed you reasons or anything. In any case, I did mention the reason why the page was created and do not see in which way I didn't bring something lacking to Wiki there. The term Li comes in a bunch of variants and to have only one of them is as misleading as it comes.

I deleted it as "a very short article providing little or no context", but perhaps that was a bit hasty. In any case, if you want to re-create this article, it should not have a Chinese character in the title; see WP:UE. If you need content from the deleted versions, just let me know, or better yet, give me a new title to restore it to and I will do so. android 79 20:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great. The title "Li (Confucian)" was taken for the other Li (禮) of ritual... so "Li (Neo-Confucianism)" might be clearly understood. The important part might be to be sure that it can be hyperlinked just with "li" instead of complete title - as in the Zhu Xi and neo-Confucianism articles.

That's the misleading thing with Chinese ideas articles, we might need standards since it's a potentially huge part of Wiki.

Thanks --Sloall 09:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the article and moved it to Li (Neo-Confucianism). You can link to this article within the text of another by doing this: Li or even this: 理. android 79 14:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image talk:Dependent territories 2007.png

I am afraid Image talk:Dependent territories 2007.png shouldn't have been deleted. The map was moved to Commons and therefore the image page itself appears to be a red link on the top menu. Could you please restore it? See also User talk:Masamage#Image talk:Dependent territories 2007.png. Qaka 20:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restored. Perhaps we need a boilerplate template for this sort of thing? android79 20:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you so much. Qaka 21:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://commons.wikimedia.org.ezproxy.auckland.ac.nz/wiki/Image:Dependent_territories_2007.png, Image talk for images on commons happens on commons, not EN, because they are used by every language, not just English. We don't need boilerplate, we need people to go to the right location. Qaka is a sockpuppet of permanently banned troll Instantnood. Ignore him and his stupid requests. SchmuckyTheCat

Okayyy... you want to handle it, then? :-) android 79 21:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

np, but I'm not an admin with the ban button. I can spot his sockpuppets a mile away, I can can revert him and kill his bots, but I can't ban the socks. SchmuckyTheCat

Oh, my bad, I thought you were an admin. I trust the situation has been taken care of? android 79 02:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Just to let you know that I have reported him to 3RR for blanking the page and re-adding the speedy template to the page. Qaka 21:09, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Desoto jones

Well, it's partly irrelevant now that it's been recreated (I assume by the same user that created the original.) I got sidetracked for a couple mins reading about you because you are a new name for me so here's what I was writing to you a few mins ago. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I was just about to speedy delete tag it but someone got to it first and then you deleted it. My concern is that the log doesn't give an explanation of the deletion or refer to speedy delete criterion that was used so the editor that created it will probably not learn why it was deleted and might create similar pages again. (I can't even see the creator in logs in order to give them a warning myself) My guess is it's either not possible or not practical to adjust the log to reflect the reason. Maybe recreate and delete with a better comment?

--Jeremyb 21:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've found that most people who have their pages deleted don't bother reading the log message. If they complain about it, they always ask why. Now, that doesn't mean I shouldn't leave a more useful message; I've gotten lazy. Thanks for the reminder. android 79 02:25, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Montgomery Cup

Hi 'Android79', I would appreciate some feedback as to how we can create an acceptable page to inform others of the Montgomery Cup, seeing as our first attempt failed to meet the high standards wikipedia righfully demands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jono w (talk • contribs)

First, please note that on talk pages, new content usually goes at the bottom. Second, please sign and date your talk page comments with ~~~~.

The article was deleted because it made no assertion of notability. A subject must be significant or important enough to be covered in Wikipedia.

The comment "the world's biggest wiki won't let the little guys spread the word?" belies a misunderstanding you may have about Wikipedia: it is an encyclopedia, not a venue for promotion or advertising. The fact that you have to "spread the word" about something is exactly why it probably doesn't warrant a Wikipedia article in the first place.

If the Montgomery Cup is indeed well-known and has been documented by verifiable sources, a Wikipedia article could be written about it, but those people that are organizing it probably shouldn't be the ones to write the article. android 79 02:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

João-Maria Nabais

Good morning, I known that you deleted João-Maria Nabais that I created. It was classified vanity article . I need to known why? João-Maria Nabais is a important portuguese doctor writer. thank you for your attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Odetem (talk • contribs)

The article read like a resume/self-promotional material. None of the references (from what I was able to discern – Wikipedia prefers English sources) seem to refer to any of the subject's status as an "important" doctor, and merely list off some of the subject's poetry. android 79 15:05, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FuturePlus

Hi, I would like to know why you deleted this page. You said it was because of advertising but this page was constructed just like any other company page. Examples: Intel, AMD, Nvidia. If you could give me any more incite that would be great. Thanks --Daichinger 15:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looked like advertising to me, complete with ™ symbols. Do you have some relationship to FuturePlus? android79 16:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Personally, I think the TM symbols look cool. I worked for a company that rented one of their products and I thought it was very innovative. I use Wikipedia a lot for looking up general information and one day at home I searched them and they didn't come up. So I made an account to put them up here. I don't think working for a company that used a product of theirs is a relationship.--Daichinger 16:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- BUMP--Daichinger 16:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Everything you need to know about why the article was deleted, and how to make improvements, was on your talk page before you blanked it. android 79 01:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Austin Thompson

I would like do know why you deleted "Austin Thompson".

--S495 03:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Twurping

Hey I'd just like to simply know why my article on Twurping was deleted? Its a dancing style which I was told about by a friend from America, and he says he learnt of it from his Asian punk friend, who actually learnt of it from some kid in Norfolk... So that proves that its an international dance, so whats with the deletion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Siinvincible (talk • contribs).

"I heard about it from this guy who knows this other guy who learned it from someone else" is not a reliable source. Unsourced nonsense gets deleted. android 79 13:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Omega Sektor

Hello there Android79,

I dont understand why Omega Sektor was classfied under speedy deletion, surely it wasnt an advertising article or anything. and it didnt promote the centre or anything, just mentioned the truth with references as well (One of which is from the BBC, surely thats a respectable website)!! PLUS I went there specially today to get some free photos to put on commons and add to the article and then write a similar article about it on my local wiki (AR WP, on which I am a sysop).

Let me know mate,

Regards --Lord Anubis 19:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of the references, it was written in a pure ad-copy style, complete with a PR quote from a sales and marketing director. It looked like blatant spam, and that's why I deleted it. android79 20:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, could you please restore it, copy the content to my discussion page, and delete it again, because now I lost wut i had worked on, i ll make sure i rewrite in a non blatant spammy ad-copy styled article. Cheers. --Lord Anubis 20:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Restored to User:Lord Anubis/Omega Sektor. By the way, you should really rethink redirecting your EN user talk page to your AR user talk page. Should anyone want to leave you a message, you're essentially forcing them to register on AR. android79 22:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Cheers dude, thanx for the restore, on AR WP, anonymous users can still edit pages, but ye i think i ll remove the redirect and check EN WP more often for any msgs left for me. Thanks again. --Lord Anubis 22:35, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - That's exactly the thing – personally, I wouldn't want to edit anonymously on AR any more than I would here, so as not to expose my IP address to the public. android 79 22:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just to throw my hat into the ring - when the article was recreated earlier, I, not knowing about the previous discussion, put an advert tag on it. I may have been a little hasty - where should this go from here? Regards, Chrisd87 23:21, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Lol, I dunno if it is advertisement material, I made sure i removed any quotes, added more references, and rephrased statements to reflect a neutral point of view not influenced by whether this centre is good or bad. its a stub anyway, i am sure some guys will come and add shitloads of info to it, :p, cheers, --Lord Anubis 23:27, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]