User talk:Amandajm/Archives/2013/February

Madonna in the Church

There is a lot of discussion of gothic architecure in this page, and would appreciate if you could give a look. Ceoil (talk) 21:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

No worries. I kind of realised anyway after I posted that the article is not yet ready for your input. When you have time, and if not too preoccupied, I might ping you in sometime later in the new year. So merry christmas and a happy new year in advance :) Ceoil (talk) 22:30, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment ...

This is a potentially big project that you might be interested in joining. Please see Wikipedia:GLAM/smarthistory

According to the Template:External media this template should normally go in the body of the text, where the video would normally be placed if we could upload it to Wikimedia Commons, so I think the link is in the right place. This template doesn't seem to be used that often, though, so a discussion is appreciated before we undertake a very extensive use of the template. I'd previously just used the template once, several years ago.

The cooperation with Smarthistory could be very productive, in that interpretation and expert opinion can be hard to document in many art articles, but is extremely important there. Note that Smarthistory and their parent Khan Academy are completely non-profit and are attempting to give free lectures and video in many topics to many ages through the internet. They are perhaps even "more free" (gratis) and more ambitious in giving away knowledge than Wikipedia itself.

All help appreciated.

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 19:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Nadolig hapus

Martinevans123^{Santas Grotto} wishes you and yours

"Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda"

---

May the true spirit of Christmas bless you with warmth and peace ....

2013

File:Happy New Year 2013.jpg		Have an enjoyable New Year!
		Hello Amandajm: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Northamerica1000(talk) 19:37, 31 December 2012 (UTC) Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2013}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

Sydney meetup on Thursday

Just a quick note to invite you to the next Sydney meetup this Thursday evening. Details here. Hope to see you then! (You received this invitation because you are listed here.) --99of9 (talk) 00:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Metz Cathedral

Well thank you for your edits on the Metz Cathedral article. However, there are issues about them.

First, on your definition of facade. I may give you hundreds of links that define what a facade is, I am gonna give just two of them (see below).Even the wiki article on facade states in its first sentence that a facade is not just the front of a building. In Gothic architecture, the word "facade" is used for each side of the edifice.

[[1]] [[2]]

Second, the terms East, West, North, South are the nomenclature when we are talking about church, even if the church in question doesn't follow the axis. Metz Cathedral doesn't follow the axis, but we keep the cardinal denomination for it (or you should go to see people in Metz to tell them they are wrong since centuries). Furthermore, if we really want to be rigorous on that one, what you called south-west "side" is indeed the north-(north)east facade. Google map will help you to figure out.

Third, the words "westwork" and "east end" are terminology used to describe a church, specially cathedral. As you may see, they even both have their dedicated article on wikipedia. You would be able to use the work chevet instead of east end, but choir (?).

Architecture_of_cathedrals_and_great_churches#East_end

Architectural_development_of_the_eastern_end_of_cathedrals_in_England_and_France

Westwork

Fourth, I give you that one. Tympanum may be really elusive for a the ends of the transept, still I believe it applies.

here.) --Bava Alcide57 (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

• Definition of "facade"

1. "the front of a building; also : any face of a building given special architectural treatment <a museum's east facade>"
2. " the side of a building facing a public space and treated accordingly. "

Both these definitions carry provisos: 1. "given special architectural treatment", 2. "treated accordingly".

The side of a Gothic or Romanesque cathedral is not a "facade". As I explained, a transept end in a cathedral/large church may have a facade, but only where it has been treated as such. Chartres Cathedral has transept facades. St Paul's Cathedral has transept facades. Cologne Cathedral has transept facades. Westminster Abbey has a north transept facade, but not a south transept facade. On the other hand St Peter's Basilica does not have transept facades. Salisbury Cathedral doesn't have transept facades. Florence Cathedral doesn't have transept facades.

Wikimedia Commons: some time ago a well-meaning but misguided editor mislabelled a great many of the architectural pictures on Wikimedia Commons, listing all the side-views of buildings as "facades" eg. west facade of Notre Dame". I tried to get the perpetrator to fix it but putting Wiki Commons files right, after they have all been wrongly labelled is extraordinarily tiresome, and it has never been fixed.

• Definition of "westwork"

1. "A westwork (also westwerk, the German word) is the monumental, west-facing entrance section of a Carolingian, Ottonian, or Romanesque church."

It doesn't mention Gothic here for the simple reason that it doesn't apply. The structure of a "westwork" is architecturally quite different to the strcture of a Gothic west front. It is not simply the Gothic details that make it different.

• "Tympanum" does not apply to the end of a structure. It doesn't apply either to the end of the nave, or the end of a transept. It applies specifically to the arched or triangular panel above a portal and framed by the arches of that portal.

A transept may have a tympanum, but only in the case of the transept-end having a portal. The tympanum is associated with the portal, not with the main outer surface of the building.

• "North, south, east, west". Yes, I am well aware of this terminology. The terms "east end" and "west front" prevail, even when the orientation is otherwise. However, you introduce "southern" and "northern" in relation to mis-named "facades", as in "the northern facade". "Northern" is a geographical term. "Northern facade" does not mean the same thing as "north transept". "North transept" can be understood as "liturgical north", but "northern facade" is entirely incorrect as it relates neither to the actuality, or the architectural and liturgical tradition.

I apologise if I described the true angle wrongly. However, you can no doubt get the description geographically correct.

• Concerning the use of the term "choir", it is an architectural term for the east end of a great church and is useful in situations where the term "east end" may not be appropriate, as in the present situation. I sometimes write the word as "quire" to make it clear that the structure is the subject rather than the musicians.
• FYI, I am the author of the following articles;

1. Ancient Greek architecture
2. List of Ancient Greek temples
3. Romanesque architecture
4. Romanesque secular and domestic architecture
5. Regional characteristics of Romanesque architecture
6. Gothic architecture, (which I am about to overhaul).
7. Architecture of cathedrals and great churches
8. Architecture of the medieval cathedrals of England
9. Renaissance architecture
10. Italian Renaissance painting
11. Wrote all the architectural information on St Peter's Basilica, Cologne Cathedral, Bristol Cathedral, Carlisle Cathedral, Chichester Cathedral etc etc.

Check out a few of these, and then come back and argue.

BTW, thank you for your addition of a plan to the article Architecture of cathedrals and great churches. It is a good idea. However, I may well replace it with one that is oriented east west, and has more defined western towers.

Amandajm (talk) 02:53, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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Talkback

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--Pine^✉ 19:35, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Replied again. --Pine^✉ 19:29, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Jais Nielsen

Hello Amandajm. Unless I am mistaken, we have not been in touch before. Rather surprising, in fact, as we seem to share similar interests. I'm so glad you came in and improved Jais Nielsen. The article resulted from a red link in a couple of articles related to the work we have been doing recently in connection with the Danish Culture Canon. I have a feeling we may have been moving forward rather too quickly on some of these but the enthusiastic editors I have been working with are very keen for their work to be included in DYK -- which I fully support as it provides for wider interest in Denmark. Anyway, your contributions to Jais Nielsen are just the kind of additions I think we need on a number of these articles. If you look back over the DYKs for the past few days (or weeks), you'll see there have been quite a few more. Alternatively, have a look at the Danish Culture Canon itself. There may be something that tickles your fancy there, either for improvements or new articles. I'm still trying to cover more of the red links myself.

I also see you have done excellent work in the area of architecture. As you have taken a special interest in Greek temples, I was wondering if I could persuade you to have a look at Acropolis of Athens. It is one of the most popular articles on architecture but has not received as much attention as it deserves. I have recently been trying to add citations but would really appreciate some expert assistance in further improvement, the general objective being to work the article up to at least B if not GA. Unfortunately, most of those who originally contributed to the artice have now disappeared from Wikipedia and despite a number of calls for assistance on WikiProject Architecture I have not yet found anyone prepared to participate. Let me know if you are interested. And feel free to let me know whether I can be of any assistance to your own work, now or in the future.--Ipigott (talk) 12:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your lengthy explanations and for pointing me at your excellent work on "Romanesque secular and domestic architecture" with its beautiful illustrations. You should nominate it for GA. Has it ever been highlighted on the Architecture portal? If not, it deserves to be there soon. As for the Acropolis, it's been there for a long time and can certainly wait until you have a bit more time on your hands. You were right, by the way, about "De Tretten". Very little online. It might be fun to write an article on it, based on all the bits and pieces you can find in Weilbach and related biographies. There is in fact a catalogue "Katalog over de tretten Kunstneres Udstilling,1909-1912", see here and here.--Ipigott (talk) 08:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I was not actually suggesting FA, which I know can be quite a strain, but simply GA -- which can be quite straightforward. Compared with many other GAs on art and architecture, I think it deserves it. And I think you took my suggestion about "De Tretten" too personally. The "you" was lax for "one". When I have a moment, I'll at least write a few lines on De Tretten and/or The Group of Thirteen as quite a number of artists exhibited there (thirteen I believe!). I share some of your thoughts on fame and peacock language although I must say that in many cases I have appreciated edits toning down my enthusiasm. Wells Cathedral certainly looks like a good candidate too. Maybe you could develop the early history a bit. I see there are a few interesting clues here. Fascinating that there was also a St Andrew's Well and that there are deep foundations to an apsidal sanctuary. I wonder why it was consecrated to St Andrew? Unusual in England. Maybe the well was earlier Anu's Well (but I'm just guessing).--Ipigott (talk) 12:27, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I haven't been to Wells since I was 14 but I can still remember the stained glass windows. I was reminded of them when I visited Chartres a few years later.--Ipigott (talk) 13:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I managed to put something together on De Tretten but in so doing created even more red links! A few more Danish artists to work on, I suppose.--Ipigott (talk) 12:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

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3abos (talk) 03:24, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For outstanding work to wikipedia. Keep it up! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 16:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

You're doing wonderful work on architecture articles and should go for more GAs! If you'd like assistance give me a bell!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 08:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Ipigott was of the same mindset I think, but I think he's coming around to the GA at least and seeing that it isn't impossible to obtain GAs. Agreed, FAs are a nightmare and very difficult to obtain, that's why I only have about 10 of them! We badly need GAs for architecture. If your articles are shorter I'd be willing to do the GA reviews myself, The Romanesque article would take yonks to review at it's so fantastically detailed!! We both helped out Rod with the Wells Cathedral article which last time I looked seemed GA quality. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Bristol Cathedral

I can't for the life of me imagine why you are telling me that. I made no edit in reference to the orientation of the building, and seeing as I have, over the years, visited several hundred cathedrals worldwide (including all but a couple in the British Isles), including orthodox cathedrals as well as sites where a cathedral no longer stands, I would hardly be the one to make such an inaccurate statement. JohnArmagh (talk) 10:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's interesting - and indicates a possible issue with Wikipedia's edit logging. The only change I made in my edit was to the opening sentence. Contrary to the edit details shown I did not alter the coordinates in the infobox, nor any other text after the opening sentence. No-one else is using my account. JohnArmagh (talk) 13:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Women photographers in Australia

Hello again Amandajm. As you have covered quite a bit on Australia outside the field of architecture, I was wondering if you could be of any help in identifying notable female photographers from Australia (i.e. both born Australians and immigrants), especially pioneers. In connection with Women's History Month, I am trying to encourage better coverage of women in photography. One of the starting points is the List of women photographers which I've tried to expand on a country-by-country basis. While I've had no problems with New Zealand (already eight), you'll see there are only a couple of Australians. Can you help, perhaps by sending me names or adding them to the list as red links with a short reference. Searchable sources would also be useful. If you don't have time for this, don't bother. I'll get back to it myself in due course. See Wells is coming along very nicely.--Ipigott (talk) 07:55, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Amazingly fast response. Thanks.--Ipigott (talk) 08:11, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the seven names. Hedda Morrison was already there (as a German) but you provided a great references which could be used to add much more detail to her biography. Kate Geraghty is now also in the list and I have written a few lines on Ruby Spowart. Unfortunately I have not been able to find much on the others apart from their own write-ups and CVs. In any case, the Australian section of the list is already looking much better. --Ipigott (talk) 12:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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