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Ming agriculture and tax revenues

I no longer have any of my notes (let alone the sources) I used to create the Ming Dynasty article, spare a few books like Timothy Brook's Confusions of Pleasure (1998), but I don't think his source will be of much help for a chart on tax revenues. I'll try to look up info on the agricultural surplus in that book. Ok?--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

A quick look at the page index for the book (to show you the limits of his research):

  • Agriculture, 144-145; idealized, 1-3, 123, 140-141, 145; implements, 127, 133; as male-gendered, 65-66, 113; and self-reliance, 159-160; techniques, 96. See also Cotton, Fruit Grain.
  • Grain: in local economy, 199; as rent payment, 60; as tax item, 46, 81, 88, 127; trade, 71, 107-108, 117-118, 190-194; transport by water, 47-48.
  • Granaries, xx, 7, 70-71, 103-104, 107, 191-193.

Interested in any of this?--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Why am I not surprised. I would disagree with your overall main point though: I don't think he's dangerous; I think he's simply a troll and a clown who amuses himself by getting embroiled in Wiki talk page conflicts. Also, as I suggested above, does anything in this index from Brook's book interest you? His book deals more with how culture and economics are correlated, and unfortunately for your sake doesn't focus heavily on solid economic details.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:50, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Sure, why not. Once again, feel free to use information and citations that are already available at Economy of the Han Dynasty and Economy of the Song Dynasty. Why do a lot of research if much of it has been done for you in articles such as these? Lol. Moreover, I'm vouching for these articles as accurate and fully represent the sources used (I guarantee it, I don't come to Wiki to **** around).--Pericles of AthensTalk 14:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Recently you wrote in your sandbox:

The use of windmills to grind grain and rice was already in place during the Han period.

Not according to Joseph Needham (Volume 4, Part 2, page 560), who says that China lacked the use of the windmill until about the 13th century when it was introduced via Central Asia into northern China, then under the Jurchen Jin Dynasty. I've explained this at Technology of the Song Dynasty. However, Needham's work is rather outdated and new evidence could have surfaced since the publication of his works; where did you find this information? Any author who makes such a claim is certainly attempting to overturn the age-old consensus that the windmill was an invention of the early Islamic world.--Pericles of AthensTalk 16:16, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. However, find out more about this Han-era 风车 and refrain from calling a small device a "mill" of any sort, let alone a windmill! Is this machine similar to the crank-handle operated fan of the winnowing machine that was invented during Han? Or the rotary fan wheels for air conditioning invented by Ding Huan around 180 CE? In other words, was it powered by actual wind or by the power of a manually-operated fan? I would simply take that statement out of the article until you clearly understand what a Han-era 风车 really is.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
In the meantime, if you want to find a suitable replacement for a machine that pounds and decorticates grain, you could mention the trip hammer and winnowing machine instead of this "wind machine", just to be safe. Look to Science and technology of the Han Dynasty and List of Chinese inventions for citations you can use for either of these.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:20, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Recently you wrote:

Unlike its absolutist predecessors, the Song empire saw the monarchy and aristocracy weaken and give way to the new class of scholar-officials, who for the first time were plebians, thanks to the new examination system.

It is true that the aristocracy and core elite of the landowning gentry lost much of their power to a more nationwide, local and lower-class gentry, since the marriage alliances of great families broke apart during the 11th century (along with other factors, see Society of the Song Dynasty). However, this new brand of scholar-officials belonged to a gentry class that had already existed since the Eastern Han. The examination system was also nothing new (as you point out in the Sui Dynasty section), it was merely reformed and made more inclusive. And I would argue that "plebians" were allowed to hold government office long before the Song Dynasty; please read Society and culture of the Han Dynasty for plenty of examples of lower class people becoming accepted into officialdom. For example, Gongsun Hong (公孫弘) was merely a pig-breeder before he became chancellor under Emperor Wu; he was also the first chancellor to be of a non-military and non-aristocratic background.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:41, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind the copy-editing.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Tianchao Daguo

@Teen, I would like to create a new wiki Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國, or Tianchow Daguo, which ever name is more suitable, but only use pinyin, Could you help me? Arilang talk 16:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Teen, feel free to add content Arilang talk 12:38, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Tianchao Daguo is coming along, need your help to add contents to sections Tang/Song/Yuan/Ming/Qing. Arilang talk 17:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China

Teen, wouldn't it be nice if there are many Roving ambassador for China running around, in that case PRC's dream of becoming a Tianchao Daguo may just come true!

Article on Tibet

民族自治，当初给自己挖这么个大陷阱 this is one of the best article on Tibet that I have read. Arilang talk 19:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

May be another new wiki article

Please have a look, I think this is a very good article. 林文希：梁启超之国会请愿运动与《零八宪章》 Arilang talk 18:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Please add content

You may like this article:User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China Arilang talk 16:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 30 March 2009

Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 20:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

我操！！！

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Baidu 10 Mythical Creatures -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Trust me...

I've said funnier shit to vandals in the past; that was nothing.--Pericles of AthensTalk 13:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll look at the diffs. I'm suprised you've already noticed the signpost interview! I believe this is the first time that anyone has interviewed me. I'm truly honored! Even if it is Wikipedia (hah). Take care.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I looked at some of the diffs already, but can't do much right now as I am stepping out of the house to take care of work-related stuff (while going to school, I work for a small online company, AmericaFree.TV). When I get back home, I will make a small statement after I have read the back-and-forth and updated myself on everything there.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Argh. I just read your statements and Tenmei's statements in the Evidence page, and it is TORTURE trying to get through Tenmei's posts and make sense of half of what he's trying to say. Look, the best thing I could do for you is take a trip to my library. I was actually thinking about it the other day, but work keeps holding me back. All's I'd have to do is get a hold of a few history books which include or focus on the Tang and then I can verify the material in Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty through sources other than your book 5000 Years of History (which in effect will lend the latter book more credibility as other sources were used to check its assertions). I'll try to go to the library this week, but I can't make any solid gaurantees, as sudden obligations pop up unexpectedly in my work week. Until then...--Pericles of AthensTalk 05:06, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVII (March 2009)

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Thank you

Thank you Teeninvestor for your message. I truely appreciate. Best regards Phg 05:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

New article finished

Naming Laws in the People's Republic of China please check, thanks. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

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Classical Chinese grammar

Created new article. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Hey, Teeninvestor, long time no see? Thank you for the visit on my talk page. I read your evidence section and am somewhat surprised at your findings. In my original intention, I would not add my statement to the RfAr case further because my purpose was just to pass the case. I was very afraid of typical retaliations from "users" who have been harassing me for a long time. (you may know whom I'm referring to now per your evidences) However, if my presence there can help you get through the case, I'd be happily assisting you with my knowledge and experience at my best. But as I've requested, would you please open your email? I do not feel safe here since someone has been scrapping anything from my talk page. I also can give you translation help, if I find Korean sources on the subject (you remember I clarified the notability of Bo Yang with Korean sources? :-)) Anyway, just let me know when you're ready. Thanks.--Caspian blue 21:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Teeninvestor, another long time no see. I've tried to add my input there, but I could not read through all evidences especially Tenmei's section because those are basically unintelligible (I'm not a native English speaker, but could you understand what he is saying?) So I tend to end up losing my patience by reading it. I don't know whether my input would be useful to the RfC/U like ArbCom case.--Caspian blue 23:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I guess I'm obliged to do so because my initial statement seems to unwillingly help Tenmei have been relentlessly grilling you over a fire just like he has done to me. However, what about the rest of the involved editors? Reading the ArbCom case is like exploding my whole head.--Caspian blue 20:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
That is partially because the stage is "an official and public place". I'm afraid whether Tenmei resumes his usual and relentless harassment campaign against me after me presenting my statement on the evidence page. That is why I'm hesitate to proceed further. Of course, I have a difficulty to decode his bizarre agendas. Well, just wait until I get there.--Caspian blue 20:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Tenmei

He's part of the cancer that's destroying Wikipedia. He's well-intentioned, but in my experience, he has little-to-no knowledge of the subjects he edits. With regards to his edits on Japanese pages, I severely doubt that he can even speak the language. All he does is quote obscure French texts that are 100 years old and totally inaccurate. On top of that, he interprets those texts incorrectly. He adds shit-tons of redundant (and sometimes inconsistent) info to articles, then gets angry when you delete it as being irrelevant/redundant.

My advice: Don't bother with him. Let him ruin whatever article it is that he's working on and find another article to work on. Bueller 007 (talk) 21:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I concur. He is relevetless, and it takes too many days to read his comments anyway. It's just not worth the stress. Eventually he'll edit war with an admin with a lot of clout, and get banned. I'm sorry to see that he filed an ArbCom against you, but I don't think you're at fault in any way. What you have reported is exactly what he did to me and an admin last August, and he tried to file an Arbcom then, but it was turned down. Hopefully the Arb committe will realize what this guy is doing, and take some action. Fortunately, most of the topics I've seen him on are fairly obsure. I wish you the best in this. - BillCJ (talk) 01:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Teen... I got your note, but don't recall the interaction I had with this user... are you able to give me a link? Erich (talk) 06:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, but this user does not sound familiar, but I do get the feeling that he is not a very "educated" user. Once again, I apologize, but I do not remember interacting with this user. Tyrol5 [Talk] 11:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but for personal reasons, I can't be involved at this time. Again, I wish you the best. - BillCJ (talk) 23:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

As per some of the above, I will need to get a ref of where I interacted with him. As I incorrectly said over at a different user: Sorry for the horrible delay. Now this might be a bit late but re: Tenmei, I am sorry but I have the memory of a goldfish and I have no recolection of ever interacting with that user. If you can point to me where I have done so, I would be happy to present evidence. But having said that, I have never been involved in arbitration before so I might be a bit confused as what is required of me. CheersCalaka (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You need the help of a good admin

Please talk to user Moonriddengirl, she helped me a lot, and tell her that we work as a group, and I recommend her to you. She will take the time to understand complex situation like this. Arilang talk 07:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Junmin Shenfenzheng

You can kinda guess. I've had plenty of free time lately to write, write, write. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 14:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 13 April 2009

Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 17:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

中国经济通史

Unfortunately, I don't know where you could access this online. I'll look around; hopefully I'll find something for you. As of now, though, I have to go outside and tend to the leaves in the yard. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 16:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Teeninvestor. I cannot find the source you are looking for, unfortunately. I hope you have better luck. Regards.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

!Achtung!

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer! Und ein Wikipedia! Lol.

Untermensch! Dis ist your captain speaking! You vill report immediately to de vunderful artikle Han Dynasty und you vill see dat it is now ein Featured Article! Macht schnell! Time is money for de Führer!

Lol. Those Kaifeng Jews better hide before the Wikipedia Nazis find them! Hope you like the article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:31, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Teeninvestor. At Talk:Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty, I added a couple paragraphs from Charles Hucker's China's Imperial Past (1975) which you may find interesting.--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to hear about your trouble with school and finances. If it cheers you up a bit, I just added Patricia Ebrey's (1999) small input on the matter at Talk:Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi. As for your question about the Song Dynasty military, every source I have consulted has attested that it expanded to the size of over a million strong (see Ebrey [1999] and Gernet [1962]). In fact, it grew to 1,250,000 soldiers by 1041 AD. As for the Song's defeats by Liao, this is not a matter of manpower, which the Song was not lacking (in fact, they were able to man a string of fortifications along the entire northern border). No. This was largely a matter of obtaining enough cavalry horses, which the Song sorely lacked overall. The Liao cavalry was a serious threat. It was only curtailed when the Song built the so-called "Great Ditch" of Hebei that stretched for hundreds of miles, acting as a defensive buffer (which the Liao court ironically misinterpreted as a Song means to launch speedy offensives into Liao territory via canal transport). The Southern Song was able to stave off Jin forces due to southern China's pristine settings for building naval defenses, which northern Chinese were historically unable to match due to the primacy of cavalry on the flat plains. This fact was not lost on Kublai Khan, who assembled a huge naval force to match that of Southern Song's. If not for this newfound naval power, the Mongol khans would not have been able to subdue the Southern Song. An invasion into Southern China by a mass of cavalry does not make sense in regards to terrain. Here, the earlier Liao tactic would have been fruitless.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Millions or no millions

@PoA, sorry to cut in, ancient Chinese units of counting is 個, 拾, 百, 千, 萬, 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10,000. In ancient times, 萬(10,000) is the highest denomination, that is why emperor was called 萬歲, as you know Ten thousand years. But 萬 in ancient China was just a numerical expression, and was never meant to be precise, so if we encounter phrases such as 百萬雄師, one million military force, we need to add a pinch of salt, so to speak. Arilang talk 04:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Internet video that will change you view about Chinese

]

Another new article

Please have a look and help to add content:Nucai Arilang talk 04:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Superpower or hyperpower

May be you are interested in this Talk:Hyperpower Arilang talk 03:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Another new article in my sandbox

Please have a look when you have time.

User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Black jails Arilang talk 13:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Another new article

Please check List of offences that attract jail terms in China Arilang talk 09:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

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Comparison between Roman and Han Empires

I hope you find my contributions of pictures for the Roman Empire helpful as it was underepresented before. 88.109.255.85 (talk) 11:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

:D

it is. The one who lectures meanings of English words misspelled it. As for scanning, well the method was used for some cases in past.--Caspian blue 19:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I think this issue is very much related to you and Tenmei; Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration#Roles_of_drafting_arbitrators. --Caspian blue 04:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Too typical

What can I say? That's why I did not want to give my evidence. Just like your and Nick-D's prediction, it is obvious that he should be sanctioned for his history of disruption. --Caspian blue 13:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposals

Hi, I'm not that familiar with drafting proposals at Workshop, but my another engaged page shows editors there raise various remedies to editors whom they think disruptive. I think yours are very a few compared to somebody's exaggerated ones. The page would be useful for you to draft your proposals like "indefinitely banning", "one-year banning", "6 month banning", "topic-banning", "mentorship", "admonishment" etc. Anyway, thank you for letting me know of the another attack page and harassment by Tenmei.--Caspian blue 23:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you think if I relocate the Chinese book section at Evidence to Workshop? I have more room to document some's behaviors.--Caspian blue 23:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Just like the evidence section, I originally had no plan to write proposals at Workshop, but Tenmei's harassment is pushing me do that. Once you finish up drafting such, can I refer to your proposals? I'm not good at writing such things in English.--Caspian blue 23:27, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I' not an involved party in the Tang case unlike you, but you can say I'm a commentator just like Nick-D. --Caspian blue 02:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Sandbox

You may want to comment at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Attack page. --Tenmei (talk) 00:42, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Tenmei/Ichijō speedy declined

Looks like you've had some sort of interaction with the user. Did you follow their advice? This is not an attack page. Some sort of ArbCom work sheet or record of some sort. Please re read WP:attack page as it is not one. You might want to consider listing at WP:MFD. I'm curious as to how you found so obscure a user sub page. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 01:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Like I said-- not an attack page. Are you engaged in a long standing dispute with Tenmei? Why do you have a special interest in Caspian Blue? Would it not be better to take this to the proper venue at WP:MFD ? Dlohcierekim 01:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
AHA! You are embroiled in a long term dispute with Tenmei, viz-- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. In light of that and of the page's apparent relevance to the ArbCom case, I wonder if you tagging it for speedy deletion might appear self serving and disengenuious to some? I would suggest adding it to the current ArbCom if you really believe it to be evidence of bad behavior. Cheers, Dlohcierekim

5000 Years

I might already have asked you this, but would you happen to own a copy of the 5000 Years book? If you do, you should seriously consider scanning it and getting it "approved" by other Wikipedia editors. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 02:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Printer? You don't need a printer for scanning unless you have one of those big office ones. What you need is a dedicated scanner. Do you have one? And for the evidence, don't worry about it. It got done eventually. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 23:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVIII (April 2009)

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Again, you're right

I'm heavily insulted again by Tenmei after I questioned him about Mongolian editors. The guy is hopeless. My AGF does not totally work to this guy who always assumes bad faith.--Caspian blue 17:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

See the user page, some established editor who has a very good contribution history (FA, GA, DYK reviewer and contributor) and a notability, but who does not assume good faith at all was indefinitely blocked for making a list of her enemies on her talk page. Well, doesn't it ring a bell? Tenmei does not admit his obvious mistake of attacking me (he said every words from him were "carefully chosen", that means his harassment and ad hominen attacks are deliberate and intentional)--Caspian blue 00:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry, it was overturned. You obviously knows her.--Caspian blue 01:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I've met her on DYK pages frequently, and she has a good record of contributing to Wiki. Anyway, the matter is being dealt within ArBCom now. Funnily, the blocking admin is one of admins whose user page where Tenmei wikistalked and harassed me. --Caspian blue 01:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
As I said on the ArbCom page, Tenmei thinks of you and the sockpuppeter as the same. He has not only attacked Patar knight, but everyone who criticized him. SYSS Mouse's section is filled with attacks on "me" (what has something to do with SYSS Mouse's evidence and me?) The diffs are hilarious. [1][2] He does not know how rude he is or admits what he has done to everyone.--Caspian blue 21:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

New article, again

Please check Black jails and Dangguo. Arilang talk 07:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen, a very good article, please have a look and tell me what you think. http://www.douban.com/group/topic/4082132/ Arilang talk 15:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Teen, this is a very good article, argue against 康乾盛世.

http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/History/31229729.html Arilang talk 15:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Something

Hi, Teeninvestor, I added missed sections that you had to add such as "comment by arbistrators/parties/others. And I was about to add to the "mentorship" section, but it was gone. I think Nick-D commented to it, so I think you have to explain why the section is gone and would better get a permission from him for deleting his comment or moving it to somewhere.--Caspian blue 02:50, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

What a joke

User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Lin Biao Diary Teen, do you know Lin Biao used B52 as a nick name for Mao? 婆娘 for 江青, and cobra for 張春橋? http://bbs.crt.com.cn/bbs/read.php?tid=19882 Arilang talk 08:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

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Hi Teeninvestor

I don't think the anonymous IP at History of the Han Dynasty is Tenmei; his demeanor and personality seem very different to me. However, I could be wrong. That is, Tenmei could put on a different persona just to get away with acting as an anonymous IP. However, I think any speculation in this area should be classified as paranoia until something obvious comes up.

As for the ArbCom case, I'd love to contribute to the Workshop, but it has become so huge that I don't even know where to place my comments or where to begin! It's hard to weave through it and find a suitable spot where I can present the evidence I displayed at Talk:Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The ban proposal on Tenmei

Hi, I thought your one year ban proposal on Tenmei is a bit much (but he certainly deserves a block of more than one month duration for his long-term disruption), but his today's ad hominen attack is just unbearable. The guy is hopeless and I wonder what makes him such. Does he know his continued behavior is just shooting in his own foot?--Caspian blue 02:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Critical appraisals of Mao

Teen, I notice that you remove this section. I think it is fair to add such as section, because Mao is a historical figure, either positive, or negative comments, should have equal opportunity to be presented as such.

Please have a look http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/z_special/2009/05/200905090841.shtml, and I have watched the actual video, that 楊天石 is a real scholar, NPOV or not. Arilang talk 23:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

New article

Teen, please have a look and add content:User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Pi Dou mass rally Arilang talk 00:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations!

The article looks great! And you have so many citations now! I can add more, though. I think you should consider starting the process of reducing the size of the article now and creating branch articles for it. But that's a job for you in the future. As for now, wow! It looks great. It could use some pictures, though, as you suggested. Here's a gallery with some pictures you might want to pick and choose from for your article.

  • Tang Dynasty coin
    Tang Dynasty coin
  • Song through Qing coins
    Song through Qing coins
  • Song Dynasty paper money
    Song Dynasty paper money
  • A bill from 1930, early ROC
    A bill from 1930, early ROC

There's more pictures you can use at Wikimedia Commons. For example, you can look at this page here. I'll talk to you more about this later. I am down in Roanoke, Virginia right now with my family visiting my sister and her boyfriend's family. I have to go at the moment. Let me know if you need anything else.--Pericles of AthensTalk 19:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I responded to you at Arilang's page. Also, if you're still looking for pictures for Economic history of China, there's no better place to start than here: Economy of China at Wikimedia.org. Snoop around there; that's what I'm doing. I'm trying to find you a decent picture for the lead (which is usually sized at 300px according to Wiki guidelines).--Pericles of AthensTalk 03:17, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh! I thought you meant creating two new articles, and summarizing them both in the (now defunct article) "Economic history of China", not redirecting one to another; I guess this works just as well, though.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, as long as you clean things up a bit and make sure the sources listed in the ref sections are placed in the right articles, then I think your current model will be fine.--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

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Sure thing

I can look at it after I work out the kinks with Government of the Han Dynasty, which is a featured article candidate at the moment (Economy of the Han Dynasty just passed its nomination today). I'm surprised no one has written an article on the Wu Hu uprising; it's good to see you are exploring uncharted topics on Wiki. The page on the Wu Hu could also use some help.--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

雪上加霜 or 賊反荷杖

After commenting to Workshop, I saw you comment on Tenmei's latest attack to Newyorkbrad...what a good strategy of him.--Caspian blue 22:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Fork?

Contents of Tang-Gokturk wars are duplicated. And since the ArbCom is ongoing, I recommend you do not proceed the job until everything is settled down, and request an admin to userfy the article to your page.--Caspian blue 23:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

If I were you, I wouldn't do that but userfy it. --Caspian blue 23:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Because you're in the ArbCom case.--Caspian blue 23:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

(— —);;

(— —);; there were several controversies related to Arbitrators in the past like Essjay controversy. I think Wikipedia has to prohibit editors from using "sockpuppetry" and need some verification of users' identity.--Caspian blue 14:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

what??? No, Future has not been desysopped. He just is under an ArBCom case.--Caspian blue 14:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 25 May 2009

Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 04:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

鄧玉嬌事件

Teen, is getting big on the Chinese bloggosphere, what is your opinion? Arilang talk 01:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Deng Yujiao

Teen, I have read through most of the news item on the girl, my opinion is that she is innocent, and not a criminal.

  • The latest revelation is that those 3 guys attacking her were not going to rape her, instead someone else was going to buy her virginity 買處
  • This is going to be a much more complicated case, not a simple man slaughter/murder case.
  • This case expose China's sex industry, legal or illegal.
  • This case expose China's corrupted officials 貪官, or like some bloggers call them, 狗官. Arilang talk 13:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Military history

Yes, I agree that there should be a dynasty-by-dynasty (and then modern) format for the article, specifically because the military was not the same for each dynasty in regards to organizational structure, titles used, etc. Rewriting the article dynasty-by-dynasty makes everything easier to organize chronologically, as well.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of trying to pass nominations for List of Emperors of the Han Dynasty and Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Han Dynasty as featured items on Wiki. Once I'm done with those, I'll consider helping you out with Military history of China.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough. It's a shame that the Sixteen Kingdoms period, Wu Hu period, Southern and Northern Dynasties, and era of division (220–589 CE; with the exception of the Western Jin Dynasty) in general do not receive that much relative attention in the English-speaking realm of sinology. Aside from the occasional foray into discussions about the spread of Buddhism in this period. In fact, I think the Cambridge History of China series has yet to include this period in their volumes (correct me if I'm wrong). A shame. It is a very critical period in Chinese history, especially in regards to ethnic identity.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Garbage In Garbage Out

Just look at this amazing quotation used by Tenmei.....And further harassment against Nick-D. The next target would be LordAmeth? I wonder when the case is over. I'm sick and tired of his escalating verbal abuses. The Date Delinking case takes 5 months, but this small case has not to be like that.--Caspian blue 02:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I questioned NYB about it, but I wonder what I can do about it. The final decisions are only for Arbitrators to comment there except its talk page.--Caspian blue 20:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Comments on the talkpage are welcome and will be reviewed not just by me but by all the arbitrators. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Man, this is weird

Check this out (color footage from WWII, German soldiers being escorted out of Italy by US troops BEFORE the war's end):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kowbXGifALU

Granted, the war is about to end a couple weeks after this, but still, it is very strange to watch these two sides sitting around, chatting, directing traffic together while the war is still going on.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

That is a good observation. Plus, it would be good to reduce the prose size of the Tang Dynasty article a bit by shifting material elsewhere.--Pericles of AthensTalk 21:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Improving coverage of the Qing

Hi Teeninvestor. You're right that the wikis on the Qing period deserve to be improved a lot. Making articles as good as those PericlesofAthens writes is extremely time-consuming, and I'm afraid I don't have the time needed. (Maybe after I finish my dissertation this Fall...) For now all I can do is point people to sources. Do you know about Richard von Glahn's book called Fountain of fortune: money and monetary policy in China, 1000-1700? It happens to be available on Google Books (though the blurb is about a different book by von Glahn) and would give you good material on the economy and economic policies of Song, Yuan, Ming, and early Qing. Stay active! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 02:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Must see video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4920138942953644691&q=Rape+of+Nanking&hl=en Arilang talk 07:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Peer review

A peer review is never a bad idea. You'll get a lot of advice, some you may not like (especially if it deals with the size of the article), but the process is always helpful.--Pericles of AthensTalk 14:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you about this. Sure, I know some good copyeditors. In fact, there is a whole league of them here at Wiki. Try looking around Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors where there is a list of them. Try contacting a few on their talk pages.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Any luck with these editors, Teeninvestor?--Pericles of AthensTalk 16:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 1 June 2009

Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 23:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Teeninvestor. You have new messages at Ltwin's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Song versus Ming economies

Ok. Is there somewhere on Wiki where I state otherwise? Because I would argue for the same stance that the Ming GDP per capita (in its most prosperous times) was larger than the Song GDP (in its most prosperous times). Plus, Ming China's population was considerably larger at its height than Song China's population, although there were tens of millions more Han Chinese people who lived during the Song than in the Han or Tang dynasties.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Hah. You seen the changes to my user page yet? Pretty spiffy, huh? If you feel like adding a little Sichuan spice to your page, visit Wikipedia:User page design center. Lot's of cool things to learn there which can make your user page look fantastic. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XXXIX (May 2009)

The May 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Must see article

Teen, if you believe what she said, Chinese economy is in big trouble. Arilang talk 08:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC) (Ctrl-click)">http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/9/6/5/n2548754.htm Arilang talk 08:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Another must see article

http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/finance/2009/06/200906080406.shtml 郎咸平：文化劣根性谋杀了中国经济! Arilang talk 00:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Yet another must see article

乾隆盛世是一个饥饿的盛世 张宏杰 Arilang talk 18:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk back

Hello, Teeninvestor. You have new messages at Ltwin's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Economic history of China

Yes, I will take a look at it. MSJapan (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Economic history of China

I am sorry, but I do not believe I can help. I am leaving for Maryland today, and will not have access to my computer for a week. Sorry. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 15:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.

Tenmei (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty for a period of six months. He is permitted to comment on the talkpage, provided that he does so in a civil fashion. He is instructed not to interact with or comment with regard to Teeninvestor (talk · contribs) or Caspian blue (talk · contribs) on any page of Wikipedia (except in the course of legitimate dispute resolution initiated by others or his mentors). Tenmei shall also be assigned one or more volunteer mentors. Other remedies also apply.

The parties are instructed to carefully review the principles and findings contained in this decision. Each of the parties is strongly urged to conform his or her future behavior to the principles set forth in this decision. Should the remedies fail to improve the situation described in this decision, after a reasonable time, an application may be made to reopen the case and impose other remedies as may be necessary.

- For the Committee, Mailer Diablo 22:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You have mail

You have mail on my talk page. Arilang talk 23:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, what's up

Hi Teeninvestor. Well, well, well, the infamous Tenmei has fallen. Or rather, is being officially monitored for his own good and the good of the Wiki community. To be frank about the matter, I will not be missing his long-winded rants any time soon.

As for premodern GDP in Song China versus Medieval Europe, something doesn't smell right to me either about some economists' arguments. The Medieval Warm Period was a great time for both feudal European farmers and independent owner-cultivators in Song China (who represented the majority of farmers in China, not tenants, slaves, or wage-laborers). But as you suggest, the techniques and equipment used in Europe was lacking in efficiency comparison to those in China. For instance, European farmers before the 16th century sowed their fields by casting the seeds out by hand. By Song times, the Chinese had been using the multiple-tube iron seed drill for more than a thousand years, dramatically enhancing production yield.

Glad you liked the featured topic! List of Emperors of the Han Dynasty was added just a couple days before it passed.

My next project will be Ancient Egyptian literature. I've already got some notes for it, too! Regards.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm not really departing from Wikiproject China. In regards to working on Ancient Egyptian literature, I do this every so often where I work on non-China related history articles (see Augustus, Giovanni Villani, Nuova Cronica, and to a lesser extent, Choe Bu, Fernão Pires de Andrade, and Tibet during the Ming Dynasty). I am even considering work on Histories (Herodotus) since I'd like to cover a bit of Greek historical subjects. A possible China-related article I will work on this summer will be History of the Tang Dynasty, as you requested. As for now, good luck with the economy article and your personal finances as well! Regards.--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Hah! Didn't even know that existed. Oh boy. Self-promoters.--Pericles of AthensTalk 12:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 15 June 2009

Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 12:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Have a laugh

Hi, please have a look File talk:Flag of the Republic of China.svg and you shall have a good laugh out of it. Arilang talk 01:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

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