User:Doug Coldwell/Sandboxes/Archive 11

DYK for Frederick Morrell Zeder

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:03, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

An award for you

	Promotion of the place where people describe where they live by pointing to a spot on their hand award
	For all your great work promoting articles about my former (and always dearest) state (including my old stomping grounds, Vicksburg!). Gtwfan52 (talk) 00:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

George Ronan

Hi Doug, if you have the chance I would appreciate it if you would take a look at a new article I have written, briefly describing early West Point graduate George Ronan. He is believed to be the first graduate of the United States Military Academy to die in combat during a skirmish in Chicago in 1812. Thanks.Bigturtle (talk) 03:53, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Added Infobox Military to article and submitted for DYK.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:42, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Bigturtle (talk) 19:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/George Ronan

Hi Doug, some issues with the nom. Please reply there. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:18, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

We're working on it.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:15, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Doug, I strongly appreciate your work on this nom. I have dropped a message in Crisco's possibly somewhat greasy e-mail box to ask if he has any more questions. Judging by his message to fellow editors in his talk page, he may live in Australia. Bigturtle (talk) 03:13, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

DYK for George Ronan

KTC (talk) 00:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your great work! Bigturtle (talk) 00:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Edward I of England

The article says The baronial and royalist forces finally met at the Battle of Lewes, on 14 May 1264. Edward, commanding the right wing, performed well, and soon defeated the London contingent of Montfort's forces. Unwisely, however, he followed the scattered enemy in pursuit, and on his return found the rest of the royal army defeated. Did Prince Edward follow the enemy on foot or on horseback? How many men did Prince Edward lead? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

According to this source, Prince Edward commanded roughly a third of the royal army, or about 500 cavalrymen and 3,000 infantry. The prince would certainly have been on horseback, as all commanders were at that time. Marco polo (talk) 17:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Lewes

Is there records someplace as to the length of the battle lines and how many?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Try reading English Heritage Battlefield Report: Lewes 1264. Alansplodge (talk) 00:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks like an excellent source at first glance. Will have to study it. Thanks for lead.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 00:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Llywelyn the Last

In the "Supremacy in Wales" section of this article it says: ...and could if he wished, purchase the homage of the one outstanding native prince - Maredudd ap Rhys of Deheubarth - for another 5,000 marks. Could someone explain further in simple terms what this means exactly. Is there further reference sources detailing this?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

It means that Henry gave him nominal sovreignty over Wales, and the other Welsh princes went along with it (at first), except Maredudd...it's a coy way of saying that Maredudd would be loyal, for a price. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, wait, that's not quite right. Maredudd owed homage to Henry in England, and it was Henry who was willing to extort a bit of extra money by selling this homage to Llywelyn. Apparently this is the text of the treaty. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:41, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Adam. The book source is very useful. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Wales after the Treaty of Montgomery 1267

  Gwynedd, Llywelyn ap Gruffudd's principality

  Territories conquered by Llywelyn ap Gruffudd

  Territories of Llywelyn's vassals

  Lordships of the Marcher barons

  Lordships of the King of England

The term "purchase the homage" is not a term I am familar with, so I don't have an understanding of this. Can you give this to me in layman's terms? In the above article it says: ...and could if he wished, purchase the homage of the one outstanding native prince - Maredudd ap Rhys of Deheubarth - for another 5,000 marks. What does that mean (in layman's terms)? Thanks!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Which of those words don't you understand? "Purchase" or "homage"? George Ponderevo (talk) 13:37, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I've added a needed link to homage (feudal) at its first mention. Johnbod (talk) 13:47, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Probably a good idea, but does "homage" have a meaning in that context other than a feudal one? George Ponderevo (talk) 13:54, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I presume not - if it does that should be explained in the article. Johnbod (talk) 14:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

"Purchase" I understand, however its "homage" that's a little tricky for me. I think now I have a loose understanding of it, but if someone cares to expand (in layman's language) I'm sure it would help me. Thanks!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:58, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

The article seems fairly clear. It is a fundamental concept in feudalism, which is a system that takes some getting used to for a modern reader. Think of it in terms of the Afghan government trying to get the homage of the Taliban, if that helps. Of course the Welsh didn't really accept the whole feudal system at all, any more than many Afghans accept the modern state. Johnbod (talk) 14:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I've occasionally wondered if it's really true that so many Welsh people have the surname "Jones" because they had a Spartactus moment when they were first asked to complete a census. George Ponderevo (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Think of it in terms of the Mob in the United States - the boss of a family has the homage or fealty of the various underbosses. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:22, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

O.K. Let's see if I got it, per the article. Llywelyn opened negotiations with the king, and was eventually recognised as Prince of Wales by King Henry in the Treaty of Montgomery in 1267. In return for the title, the retention of the lands he had conquered and the homage (respect) of almost all the native rulers of Wales, he was to pay a tribute of 25,000 marks in yearly installments of 3,000 marks, and could if he wished, purchase the homage of the one outstanding native prince - Maredudd ap Rhys of Deheubarth - for another 5,000 marks. If I am understanding this correctly, in other words as long as Llywelyn paid 3,000 marks per year to King Henry III he was recognized as Prince of Wales by the Welsh leaders. However to get the respect of the leader of Deheubarth (Maredudd ap Rhys) Llywelyn had to pay King Henry III an additional 5,000 "marks" besides the original 25,000 "marks" he had to pay to the king. Llywelyn was buying the title of Prince of Wales. Maredudd ap Rhys was holding out on giving Llywelyn respect as Prince of Wales (for whatever reason) unless Llywelyn came up with an additional 5,000 total marks (25,000 + 5,000 = 30,000 total). Did Llywelyn ever pay King Henry this amount?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:01, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it is probably that Maredudd owed fealty to Henry III, but Henry offered to sell that homage to Llywelyn for 5000 marks. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

O.K. Now I am zooming in on this:

Maredudd owed loyalty to Henry III, but Henry offered to sell that loyalty to Llywelyn for 5000 marks - making Llywelyn Prince of all territories of Wales, including Deheubarth. A good portion of Deheubarth I understand was (and is now) a land of moor grass.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's one possibility. It's hard to say without more information - and its not really an area I know much about. And unfortunately, there isn't yet a good full length biography of Henry III that we could check in. But ... David Walker Medieval Wales p. 120 says "By the treaty of Montgomery, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd was able to establish his standing in Wales on the most favourable terms ever to be extracted from the English crown. The two major issues which were agreed were that Llywelyn should hold the principality of Wales and be called the prince of Wales, and that, with one exception, he should have the homage of all the Welsh leaders. This was the position which the rulers of Gwynedd had been seeking since the beginning of the thirteenth century. (The exception was Maredudd ap Rhys Gryg of the house of Deheubarth, who as a reward for his consistent loyalty to Henry III was allowed to continue to give is homage directly to the king)." - so yes, it appears that there was an option for Llywelyn to purchase the homage from Henry III. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Great. That helps my understanding of this alot. Thanks... --Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:40, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Llywelyn the Last

Would Llywelyn the Last be the twelfth Prince of Wales before its conquest by Edward I of England?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Not according to List_of_Princes_of_Wales#List_of_Princes_of_Wales, but I strongly suspect that this is an area where historiography plays an important role and different scholars will count the princes in very different ways.Our article is strongly rooted in an Anglocentric worldview. A historian less bothered about English recognition would have a very different list but then, I seem to remember, things get complicated, as you have claimants to the title that aren't universally recognised as such, even by Welsh historians.--Dweller (talk) 22:21, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I've struck some of that - it's a long time since I studied the issues, it's late at night and I'm not convinced I'm right. Where's User:Clio the Muse when you need her? --Dweller (talk) 22:29, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

O.K. Thanks for reply Dweller. Looking at Llywelyn the Last's Family tree it shows him as one of the twelve before its conquest by Edward I of England, taking in consideration that English recognition might not be consistant on this. Hopefully I'll get some additional answers on this.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:38, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

That family tree doesn't exclusively list Princes of Wales. It listed his father who never ruled and his daughter and the descendants of his brothers who never ruled either but were just prisoners of the English. Only Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Llywelyn the Last and Dafydd ap Gruffydd used the specific title "Prince of Wales" before the English conquest, but there were many other kings and princes of the different Welsh kingdoms listed on List of rulers of Wales. Also counting rulers is really arbitrary since we got period of history where Llywelyn contended the rule of Gwynedd with his brother Owain Goch ap Gruffydd. --The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 07:49, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

It is also worth noting that nothing like the primogeniture inheritance of the right of rule in all of Wales ever existed in the way it did in the Kingdom of England. It may have been developing by the time period under discussion, but it never came to fruition because Wales was conquered by England. Instead, Wales (like Ireland and earlier Anglo-Saxon England) was full of petty states ruled by various clan/tribal leaders. At times, a particularly strong leader would establish a temporary Hegemony over several other kingdoms; this sometimes extended to most (though probably not ever all) of Wales, especially in the case of Llewellyn the Great, but this sort of hegemony was akin to a sort of high kingship or Bretwalda (to use the Anglo Saxon term): it was not a heritable title, was not passed down through families as a matter of law, and only lasted as long as the person in question could maintain his power through politics and force of arms. At the very end (after Llewellyn the Great) there came a time when the "Prince of Wales" title looked to be developing into a hereditary kingdom, akin to what happened to the Bretwalda that developed over the centuries into the King of England (through the long Hegemony of a single family, the House of Wessex), but that process never completed, as Wales lost its status as an independent land by the middle 1200s. --Jayron32 14:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron32. I see I have some studying to do here.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

If you want some of the original sources, Brut y Tywysogion is probably worth looking into. King of Wales is also some good reading; it discusses the putative Welsh kingdom; it represents a historiographical concept rather than a historical fact, as only one person ever ruled all of Wales, and then only briefly, and he never used the title "King of Wales", rather titles like "Prince of Wales" and "King of the Britons" was used. From the King of the Britons article, you can see how the title passed around between the various major Welsh principalities like Gwynedd, Powys, and Deheubarth but never represented a the sort of kingship we come to associate with places like England, France, etc. --Jayron32 00:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional information. This is great! I see this is going to keep me busy for some time.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:24, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Llywelyn the Great

Wales about 1217

In this image it looks like to me that Llywelyn the Great ruled by his client princes all these lands. Did he also rule the lands in green? How many lands did he rule total (directly or thru his client princes) in 1217?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

If you read the article you just linked, there's a caption under the picture which states "Green: Anglo-Norman lordships." These would have been lands ruled by "client princes" of the King of England and not Llywelyn. See Marcher Lord and Welsh Marches for more background. There's also a map in the "Welsh Marches" article that shows who controlled what. There are a few differences over some of the lands in the south of Wales between the two maps; this may have been simply a difference between the specific times when the maps are depicting, or perhaps interpretations of conflicting claims. --Jayron32 14:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron32. Is Deheubarth, Ceredigion, and Ystad Tywi three (3) different lands?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:39, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Borders and "lands" are a little fluid and fuzzy around the edges, especially at this time. At its greatest extent, Deheubarth included ALL of southwestern Wales; it is roughly equivalent to the modern land of Dyfed, which historically was only the southwesternmost tip of Wales. Ceredigion (sometimes Cardigan) was the northern part of Deheubarth and at times independent. Ystrad Tywi is roughly south central wales. It was never an independent land, but changed hands frequently between various rulers. --Jayron32 18:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron32! I have a lot of studying to do.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:26, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Dafydd ap Llywelyn

In the article it says He was for a time recognised as Prince of Wales. Even after re-reading the article I don't understanding what "time" they are referring to. Can I get some dates they are speaking of as him being "recognised" as Prince of Wales? Thanks!--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article King of the Britons gives an uncited note that he was so recognized as Prince of Wales by "treaty with England". --Jayron32 13:03, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

It looks like then from around 1220.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Tower of London medieval escape

In the article Dafydd ap Llywelyn it says Gruffydd died trying to escape from the Tower of London by climbing down a knotted sheet, and fell to his death in March 1244. Was this a common type of escape in this time period from the Tower of London? Is there other details in a reference on how Dafydd fell to his death? Did the sheets untie? Did he lose his grip? Did others knock him off the sheets? Was he speared? Or some other reason?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 00:54, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

It was his brother Gruffydd ap Llywelyn Fawr actually. There is some more info there, including an amusing manuscript illustration. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Take all colourful medieval,stories with a ton of salt. I found out here http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=sXBdNsDxJ_cC&pg=PA217&dq=gruffydd+tower+london+death&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OZs5UanqLYLfOpCmgegL&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=gruffydd%20tower%20london%20death&f=false that the story comes from the Chronica Majora of Matthew Paris. Our article on Paris says that he is "not always reliable". Having said that, the incident would have occurred in Paris's lifetime and it isn't a impossibility. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:11, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I see I made an error and it is actually Gruffydd that fell from the Tower. The book has Matthew showing how the sheet rope broke due to the tremendous weight of Gruffydd. He then broke his neck in the fall and was killed. The Tower looks like a cylinder with a crown on top. Is it likely that there would have been other prisioners held at the same time as Gruffydd?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

A model of the Tower of London as it appeared after the final period of expansion under Edward I

Wealthy prisoners could afford to pay for a reasonably comfortable apartment, rather than the pokey cells that you see in films. That explains the presence of bedsheets. I would be surprised if records exist to show which tower he was held in and who else was there at the time. The inner curtain wall, built by Henry III and Edward I is punctuated by cylindrical or semi-cylindrical towers, 12 by my count. The tops of many towers were demolished so that they could mount guns during the invasion scare of 1804-5 and the Victorians rebuilt them in the way that they thought looked authentic. Note that whoever drew the medieval picture may well have never seen the Tower of London, probably a monk in a remote abbey somewhere, so it's probably not accurate. Alansplodge (talk) 13:52, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Apparently it was the White Tower. By the way, Ranulf Flambard also escaped from there with a rope, in 1100 (although he survived). Adam Bishop (talk) 01:20, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

So take the round tower pictures with a "ton of salt". Alansplodge (talk) 09:09, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for info. If one were to guess, how many towers would there have been in the complex after Henry III's enhancements in the 13th century?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Henry III is responsible for building (but not completing) the inner curtain wall,[1], the second wall from the outside on the model shown right. So it looks like 12 towers, plus the big central keep, the White Tower, which was started by William I. Alansplodge (talk) 18:06, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Alansplodge. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:16, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Hidden Letters book cover.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Hidden Letters book cover.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Sealyham House

Coincidentally found this, see if you can impress me by expanding it!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:09, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Expanded the article much with a History section.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 22:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

It looks like now others are expanding the article even further.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Sealyham House

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:03, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Harrison Gray Dyar

In the article Harrison Gray Dyar you started, I could see nothing in your source which connected "Col. Whiting of Concord" to William Whiting (politician). William Whiting was born in Concord, but moved to Boston and started a legal practice after graduating from college. I removed the first name and the link, and I think you would need further support from some other source for this claim. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

On second thought, I think I am overstepping my source. Since the Congressional district he represented covered Concord, apparently he still lived in Concord while working in Boston, and probably commuted by train. So I am less doubtful about the connection. But although he had worked in the War Department, he was never in the military. Still I suppose he could have been called "colonel." But I think this claim needs further support. Thanks for this article. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 22:27, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Madoc

Very interesting article. It started off well but sort of got a bit haphazard further down, I've tried to merge a lot of the shorter section but the structure still needs to be better. See the referencing system for William Burges for the best approach (in my opinion) using sfn notes and the book filled out and linked in google book underneath. Also for making book citations paste the urls into http://reftag.appspot.com/ to get the full details. Saves a lot of time. Not sure what "further references" mean, either they're reference or not.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:24, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the hints and the improvements to the Madoc article.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:55, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Start overhauling the reference system and try to get into the habit of formatting the references. D. D. Fowler, 2000, A laboratory for Anthropology. University of New Mexico Press, you need the page numbers to verify the different facts. For each one add {{sfn|Fowler|2000|p=}} and list the book in the bibliography undeneath. Get into the habit of listing all books in the bibliography and entering the page number only using the sfn notes. Once you've completely sorted out the sourcing I can take another look at it.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 16:55, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! As you can see I am having a little trouble with these references. I guess I am going through a learning curve. I'll keep working on it...--Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

The key is using http://reftag.appspot.com/. Keep it linked on you user page. Any book you have just search in google books for it and paste the url into the ref maker and click "load". All you have to do then is reverse the author names to put surname first, and remove the ref name and date from the bottom right side and then copy and paste the references without the ref markup and paste it into your bibliography. For sfn to work you have to just add ref=harv in citation you;ve drawn up. Then you can just use the sfn|author|year of publication|p=page number for page notes. Please do take the time to look at the William Burges formatting and it should be useful as a guideline for you.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 17:11, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I am studying William Burges to see how it was done there. I am trying and eventually I'll get there.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 17:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

D. D. Fowler, 2000, A laboratory for Anthropology reference turns out to be on page 54.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 17:29, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Continue to format all of the refs in the way I've done and you should be fine, I'll let you do it now, contact me if you get stuck!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 18:10, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

O.K., I will. Thanks for help. I'll work on it over the next few day, as it looks like there is a lot of reworking involved.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:12, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Cheers Doug, note the web citation templates too, I find it keeps things neater and more consistent, keep up the good work!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 16:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. I'll work on the web citations also. This should keep me busy for the next few days redoing all the citations.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for The Three Musketeers (Studebaker engineers)

The DYK project (nominate) 16:05, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Where are you?

Hey Dougie boyboy, you haven't edited in a week, Where are you? I see the Madoc article became an article of dispute. I think it's still possible to get it up to GA if you are interested, but we'll of course need to agree with the content with the others. Don't be discouraged, you've done great on this!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 09:27, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for encourangement. Yes, I agree we'll have to agree with content with the others. Let me do some additional research, and I'll get back to it a little later. I have some books ordered I.L.L. that are due soon. Yes, I do believe it can become a GA - thanks to all the improvements you have shown me how to do.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:20, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Moon-eyed people

Hello! Your submission of Moon-eyed people at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Cambalachero (talk) 13:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Reliable sources

I'm wondering if you've read [[WP:VERIFY]] and [[WP:RS]]. You've been adding sources that are clearly not reliable (eg the ophthalmologist Trexel's self-published book) and others, such as Victoria Logue's book, that might be reliable in some contexts but not for folklore, etc. And most of your sources for Moon-eyed people don't discuss this group - most of that article was about Madoc. There are good sources for Moon-eyed people but you didn't use any of them - which may be why you don't link them with the Adena culture. I've raised the article at WP:FTN but I think it needs to be turned into a redirect with material added to the Adena one (with maybe a sentence about the fringe stuff). Dougweller (talk) 15:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I've spent a lot of time on Moon-eyed people today and I'm pretty sure I've found the origin of the story - and the only real source. It doesn't mention skin color - that I think comes from conflating a comment about albinos that Barton made with another source Mooney used that didn't mention the moon-eyed people. Anyway, I've given detail on the article talk page, see what you think.

Hi Doug. I wanted to note that I will work on providing references to my changes to Silas C Overpack's bio. He was the brother to my gg-grandfather, Gilbert. So the information is a family account. Although some of the biographical histories are nice to have, they are known to contain errors. As my ggg- grandmother Remercy did not live the remainder of her life and pass in Oakland County, but she is interred next to the Overpack monument in Manistee. More soon. J Sheldon, CPA, Mesa AZ. Formerly of Owosso, MI. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.131.84 (talk) 04:59, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Moon-eyed people for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Moon-eyed people is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moon-eyed people until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Salimfadhley (talk) 12:51, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Automatic Scoring Device for Bowling

Hi Doug,

This is the first time I have accessed this page with your article on the invention of automatic scoring device for bowling.

I have to say it is incorrect and ignores the actaul inventors who developed the device before Brunswik bought it from them as a complete system. Brunswik did very little to it other than repackage it.

Doban, a partnership in Sunnyvale, Calif owned by brothers Don and Dan Miller created the technology, tested it and installed it in bowling alleys in several locations before Brunswik came into the picture. The Miller's where both early high tech engineers who studied at Berkely and Harvard. Thier resume includes work at Fairchild, Rheem and Raytheon. As well as work later with the same technology in other applications.

I can say this with certainty because I was there and can provide proof such as copies of patients, as well as photos of the early devices with the Millers next to it with thier company name on it.

Frankly, your article looks like it was written by a Brunswik marketing employee. I have copied family and friends of the Millers on this and I hope you will be open to the real history of this intersting device.50.198.166.81 (talk) 23:41, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

David Miller btzstudio@earthlink.net

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gosei (Japanese diaspora)

It appears that you have copy-pasted a response to this AFD from the other AFDs on articles by the same user under the concern that other pages were suggested to be deleted as they are dictionary definitions. This is not the case for this particular article. I would implore you to properly assess this article instead of just disagreeing because you saw a pattern of edits.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:17, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

As a courtesy, I have mentioned your name while raising this issue at WP:ANI under the title "AFDs not being properly considered due to assumption of bad faith".—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Gwennan Gorn etc

Hello Doug. I got your email. I took a look at Gwennan Gorn and made a few tweaks in the intro. It's a very interesting topic, but your biggest problem is that since it is a legend and completely unsubstantiated as fact, you need to keep saying "supposedly" or "folklore says" all the way through. You can't at any point talk about it all as if it actually happened, especially because Madoc himself may actually be no more than a legend, even though his putative father was a real historical person.

The artice Madoc seems to be OK on a quick reading.

Caldey Island also seems OK on a quick once through, I can't see any problems there.

I don't use a watch list, but I will try to keep an eye on your articles. If I have more time I will attempt to tweak the Gwennon Gorn some more. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2013 (UTC) Invertzoo (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I also got your e-mail and tried to reduce the repetition in the article. I suggest more changes in the message that I left on the article's talk page. Good luck with the article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:15, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Caldey Island:

Please see if you can find the monthly rain fall data. I have added wind data in the table but it is not showing on the article page. I don't know how to fix it. I have checked the char size of expansion and it is now more than 5x.--Nvvchar. 23:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I would except I am going to a family reunion for a few days. This reunion has been scheduled for a year. When I get back after June 11 I can work again on the article. DYK? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Caldey Island

Gatoclass 00:03, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Reuben T. Durrett

The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Project Loon

Hello! Your submission of Project Loon at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Rushton2010 (talk) 13:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Project Loon

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:02, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for The Long Short Cut

The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Louis Duret

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:03, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

IDT Megabite Café

Hi. I reverted your additions of links to IDT Megabite Café to New York City and Internet café. In both cases, allowing this one link to a particular cafe, even if it was the first Kosher joint in the world (which is not established, and unlikely – what about in Israel?), would be to give it way too much weight. Especially in the NYC article, to mention just one of tens of thousands of businesses? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 01:53, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of IDT Megabite Café

Hello! Your submission of IDT Megabite Café at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! czar · · 21:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for William M. Brish

Gatoclass (talk) 18:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Washington County Closed-Circuit Educational Television Project

Gatoclass (talk) 18:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

re: Template:Did you know nominations/IDT Megabite Café

Hello. You have a response at Czar's talk page. czar · · 20:03, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for IDT Megabite Cafe

Gatoclass (talk) 10:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)