Template:Did you know nominations/Moon-eyed people
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Challenged accuracy
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Moon-eyed people
[edit]- ... that the moon-eyed people could only came out at night as sunlight blinded them?
Created by Doug Coldwell (talk). Self nominated at 12:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC).
- Reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Maria de Wilde--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:29, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Being a legend, you can't report its contents as if they were facts. If the "moon-eyed people" really existed, they were human beings like anyone else, and sunlight can not blind them. They may have preferred to be nocturnal for some reason, and the folklore added this fantastic feature, but it's just that, folklore fantasy. Cambalachero (talk) 13:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- First line I said: ...according to Cherokee folklore, which story matches up with the Prince Madoc legend. All the other sentences have an inline reference where I obtained the information. Its all referenced material that OTHERS have said.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:36, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- The reference concerning the hook can be found here at the bottom of the page.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:42, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was talking about the hook, the question that will appear at the main page. It has no such clarifications, it plainly says as a fact that these people could get blinded by mere sunlight. Cambalachero (talk) 13:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- ALT1 "... that according to Cherokee folklore, moon-eyed people could only come out at night as sunlight blinded them?"♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 14:02, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- What Cherokee folklore? We can't claim this is Cherokee folklore without reliable sources and there aren't any. Note that this article is really a fork from Madoc and most of its content is not about these Mooneye people. Dougweller (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've fixed a lot of that, removing non-RS sources & adding one academic source. Actually, these seem to be another name for the Adena culture [1] so this might end up as a redirect (the culture the Cherokee met when they came to Ohio). They are referred to in Cherokee folklore but the sources were poor. I'll try to work on it more tomorrow. Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- Some more research turns up what must be the original source of this story, a conversation in 1797 between one Colonel Leonard Marbury and Benjamin Smith Barton. "The Cheerake tell us, that when they first arrived in the country which they inhabit, they found it possessed by certain 'moon-eyed people,' who could not see in the day-time. These wretches they expelled." Barton considered them to be albinos. Since there is nothing in the report about skin color (although I can find 'fabricated' forms of this quote that mention skin color) he may have thought this because albinos are often sensitive to bright light. From there it seems to have grown wings. Can we call this Cherokee folklore on the basis of this statement by Barton? I don't think we can call this either folklore or tradition. Dougweller (talk) 11:07, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've fixed a lot of that, removing non-RS sources & adding one academic source. Actually, these seem to be another name for the Adena culture [1] so this might end up as a redirect (the culture the Cherokee met when they came to Ohio). They are referred to in Cherokee folklore but the sources were poor. I'll try to work on it more tomorrow. Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- What Cherokee folklore? We can't claim this is Cherokee folklore without reliable sources and there aren't any. Note that this article is really a fork from Madoc and most of its content is not about these Mooneye people. Dougweller (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I am familiar with the Mooney work (which actually dates from 1898, not 1902) and was quite surprised to see a single anecdote from that text developed into a full article, complete with a racialist "white people" interpretation and a tie-in to the pseudohistory associated with Fort Mountain State Park. I'm not surprised that this is a spin-off from Prince Madoc. I am opposed to exposing this half-baked article on the main page. Incidentally, we risk insulting Cherokee users who actually belong to the culture this article pretends to represent. There is no evidence that the "moon-eyed people" are anything but an accidentally preserved rumor, distorted in transmission to an ethnologist. The only American Indian source referred to is a self-styled member of the "Ohio Bear Clan Seneca," a group that seems to consist of her alone. The 19th-century historians and letter writers mentioned in the article are of dubious authority when it comes to "Cheerake" (Cherokee) history. This article needs a lot of work. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 00:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
- On rereading, my own comment may sound harsher than I intended. I do believe the article can be improved and that editors have worked on it with the best of intentions. Please see the discussion of the recent AFD for concerns shared by several editors, most of whom voted to keep the article. I would add that WP:UNDUE also applies here, but I'll reserve further discussion for the article talk page. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 19:35, 26 May 2013 (UTC)