Template talk:Members of the European Council

can anyone fix sorting of votes, percentage and date of election? it didn't work properly

Name of Irish Parties

Party names in Irish are (almost) ever translated in English-language media. Adding an English translation adds no new information to the user or reader of Wikipedia. I am a member of Fine Gael, but I'd say the same of Fianna Fáil or Sinn Féin. None of these have a single accepted translation either. They are among a small number of political words in Ireland, like Taoiseach or Dáil, that are in Irish, but are used in general conversation as if they were English. Within an Irish context, they are now effectively loan words. It is simply misleading to include the name in a general table of this sort for general use; that's not to say that there isn't room on the Fine Gael page itself for such discussion or information. Translating them in a general table just look odd.

To substantiate this, take the London-based Economist, which last week had an article on Ireland [1], which referred to the "poll ratings of the two ruling parties (Fine Gael and Labour)" and on German politics, [2], which referred to "her own Christian Democratic Union (CDU) with its Bavarian sister party on the centre-right, and the Social Democratic Party (SPD) on the centre-left". --William Quill (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I think that translating name of fine gael just like any other party which could create a government should be accepted. Irish people also use Irish names and surnames as secondary name but then there is no objection for example names of Ó Coinnigh (Kenny) or Ó Comhain (Cowen)

That's an occasion when both are actually used though. He's always called Enda Kenny, but in certain very formal settings, both are used, such as on the first day of the government, Irish names are also used, see [3]. The translation "Tribe of the Irish" is never used by anyone ever. Except if someone asked, "What does Fine Gael actually mean?", and someone would say, "It could be translated to Tribe, or maybe Family, of the Irish". It has no official translation. It's actually even more so than the example of Taoiseach, which might in some non-Irish media be translated to prime minister. When an Irish person says Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil, when speaking Irish, we're not at all conscious of it being anything other than a party name. It's only meaning is as a party name. --William Quill (talk) 21:47, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

You're Irish so could you tell me what about party name on voting card? it is only "fine gael" typed? Labour party has it's name only in english? it's a difference on voting card in gaeltacht? Because in Denmark parties has it's own sign which is assigned by state electoral comission and I was conscious that it's something like that in Ireland. And if you could answer I wonder if party is established in Ireland it can always seek seats in NI so the UK election.

You asked on a fortuitously appropriate day, nominations closed this afternoon for our European and local elections! On the page from the Dublin Returning Officer site, with the candidates nominated for Dublin in the European election, we have the names of the parties as they will appear on the ballot later this month. You'll see variants here: Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, and Fís Nua are in Irish alone, and would only ever be referred to as such; Labour Party, People Before Profit Alliance, Direct Democracy Ireland, and Stop the Water Tax - Socialist Party, which might be translated to Irish in Irish-language media, but only there; and Green Party/Comhaontas Glas appears in both forms on the ballot, but speaking in English is still only ever referred to as the Green Party, other than by returning officer. You might also be interested in checking the Register of Political Parties.

As to Northern Ireland elections, that's an entirely separate system. You can find these through the UK Electoral Commission database. Of the parties registered in the Republic of Ireland, Sinn Féin, the Green Party and Fianna Fáil are also registered in Northern Ireland.

Hope all that helps! --William Quill (talk) 21:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for rensponse, best wishes from Poland. Aight_2009

Klaus Iohannis and the EPP

There is no source that proves that Klaus Iohannis remains affiliated to the EPP after having become President. As such, I would like to ask that Klaus Iohannis is marked as an independent, the same way Dalia Gribauskaite is. Cipika (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Please wait, he was a leader of PNL, EPP member party. On EPP website Basescu is still included but I think source would be discovered soon. Aight 2009 (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, he was, he isn't anymore. Now he is an independent politician, as is constitutionally required. Cipika (talk) 10:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

We should be patient and looking at "Leaders" subpage on EPP website. If Basescu will be removed only, Iohannis should be marked independent. Maybe there will be a press statement earlier about Iohannis membership. Aight 2009 (talk) 12:41, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Iohannis is included to EPP family. http://www.epp.eu/party-leader-klaus-iohannis Aight 2009 (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Macron

I have made changes to the table, and splitted the Macron's "party column" in two parts, also added comment to the party affiliation under his name. I think that is the most accurate way to present actual politicial balance in the EUCO. Macron is different in comparision to other Independent members of the EUCO, since he regulary votes with liberals and has publicly expressed his views, that were always liberal or the same to that of ALDE. In fact, ALDE party is kinda influenced by him and his policy, altough he is not member of ALDE, he is de-facto ALDE ledaer in the EUCO.Sredina (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Is that your own view or do you actually have a reference saying this? It is a bit strange to say that he regularly votes with liberals, as votes are very uncommon in the European Council. It normally decides by consensus, except in certain cases. --Glentamara (talk) 16:39, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

I wont take your comment seriously, since you do not know what is actually happening in the EUCO and what Macron's position in the EUCO actually is.Sredina (talk) 16:40, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Do you have a reference or not? Stop using silly arguments to not answer my questions.

Except where the Treaties provide otherwise, decisions of the European Council shall be taken by consensus.

That's article 15(4) TEU. It gives the wrong impression to say that person A tends to vote as group B in the European Council, as most things are adopted by consensus where EVERYONE agrees. --Glentamara (talk) 16:42, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

There is a thing called negotiations, where each side takes their position, macron sides with liberals. And EUCO does vote using qualified majority, for example Juncker was nominated using QMV in 2014. In general EUCO mostly works on political declarations, not decisions, but when it does, it uses, not that rarely, QMV.Sredina (talk) 16:46, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

The European Council adopts some decisions with QMV, for instance when it nominates the Commission President, the High representative, appoints the Commission, members of the ECB etc. But in general, it uses consensus. That's the default, you can read the treaty text yourself above. And again, Wikipedia is based on statements that can be verified. Not your own views. So, once again, can you provide us with a reference that confirms your claims? --Glentamara (talk) 16:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

For instance, can you give one single example of a vote in the European Council where Macron has voted with ALDE representatives and against EPP and Socialist representatives? I doubt such a vote has ever taken place in the European Council. --Glentamara (talk) 16:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Sessions of EUCO are closed, so if there is a vote, the result will not be announced, only decision. Its just the reality, why not present accurate information.Sredina (talk) 16:54, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Well that goes against article 6(1) of the Rules of Procedures of the European Council. It says Except where the Treaties provide otherwise, decisions of the European Council shall be taken by consensus. Even if your statement was true, how could you then know that Macron was voting as the ALDE representatives? Again, anything you say is meaningless for the Wikipedia article if you cannot provide a reference that verifies it. That's one of the most basic rules of Wikipedia. --Glentamara (talk) 17:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Macron's party joined ALDE group in the EP (RE), they didn't do so, because Macron would have conservatrive or social democratic views.Sredina (talk) 17:06, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. No doubt that Macron's party is part of the RE group. But it is a political group of the European Parliament, an internal organization that has nothing to do with the European Council. But in any case, I would definitely prefer that argument rather than saying that he tends to vote more often with ALDE members of the European Council. --Glentamara (talk) 17:08, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Elections and Memberships

Information about elections is absolutely irrelevant as well as information about the membership of each candidate (Member since...), also mentioning that EUCO president or EU Commission president were Prime ministers and therefore members of EUCO is irrelevant as well, so in my opinion these dates and informations about elections should be deleted.Sredina (talk) 20:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

I recently revrted the edit that deleted names of countries in their official languages, these names should stay in my opinion, since within European Council and Council of the EU not english names are used, but names in state's official language (Polska and not Poland, Hrvatska and not Croatia).

Brexit

Shares of popupalion needed to be update after brexit. Now, there is an obsolete info. Cheers.Kacir 05:22, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Order of Precedence

According to this official source, the order of precedence in the European Council is given by the order of the rotating presidency, not by the date of assumption of office.

It could be corrected, but I think this (collapsed) section isn't very helpful here and I propose to remove it from the template. Brainiac242 (talk) 15:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC) modified by Brainiac242 (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

OK, I'm removing it because it has been three months and no one has corrected it or commented. It can be brought back (corrected) if you disagree with me about its usefulness here. Brainiac242 (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Simplifying the template

I think this template is too large and has too much information. The share of population used for qualified majority voting and previous and future elections, would be, in my opinion, more useful in a sortable list (like List of members of the European Council). The note about Michel's previous membership is not very relevant here. And the European Council logo is completely unnecessary given that it already is at the top of the article. Removing this would make the table smaller and the article European Council easier to navigate. Brainiac242 (talk) 22:25, 1 October 2022 (UTC) modified by Brainiac242 (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

OK, it’s been a month and no one has commented. I’ll start editing and we’ll see. Brainiac242 (talk) 16:49, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the “Short names used within EU institutions” don’t provide any useful information here and they are just cluttering the table, especially in states with multiple names such as Belgium and Luxembourg. Does anyone oppose removing them? Brainiac242 (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)