Template talk:F1 Drivers Standings

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2016

14	Nico Hülkenberg	7	15	15	Ret	Ret	6

Maxjaja (talk) 16:37, 29 May 2016 (UTC) Please change Rank of Nico Hulkenberg from 7 to 6 for Monaco Grand Prix

 Done DH85868993 (talk) 20:21, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Proposed change

I added a section to the talk page of the 2016 season related to this table Talk:2016_Formula_One_season#Results_and_standings. I don't want to create parallel discussions, so I am adding just a link to it here. Rks13 (talk) 15:59, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Edit request

The standings read 1-2-3-5-4. Vettel and Kimi are correctly visually placed at 4th and 5th in the standings, respectively, but Vettel's position is still listed as "5" with Kimi's as "4". These numbers should be swapped.

Current

5	Sebastian Vettel	3	DNS	2	Ret	3	4	2	2	Ret	9	4	5	6									128
4	Kimi Räikkönen	Ret	2	5	3	2	Ret	6	4	3	5	6	6	9									124

Proposed change

4	Sebastian Vettel	3	DNS	2	Ret	3	4	2	2	Ret	9	4	5	6									128
5	Kimi Räikkönen	Ret	2	5	3	2	Ret	6	4	3	5	6	6	9									124

71.212.127.93 (talk) 01:55, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 02:07, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Wrong total

Ricciardo's total points should be 161, not 151. 118.209.15.7 (talk) 00:16, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, his total had not been updated after Sunday. I have fixed it. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:35, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2018

Danniel ricciardo standing should be 6th and not 5th there is two 5th and no one in 6th place 62.28.72.93 (talk) 08:29, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

 Done Fixed. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 09:18, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Fastest lap

it would be nice to mark the driver that has the fastest lap. A way to do this is to add an "asterisk" next to the points received by the driver and add a note at the bottom that indicates its meaning. Otherwise there is no information on the table on why some drivers have more points than others with the same results. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.69.190.94 (talk) 18:52, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

The driver who set fastest lap is already indicated by their result being in italics. DH85868993 (talk) 19:56, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Fastest Lap Indicator

Any interest in changing the fastest lap indicator to something besides italic? Italic numbers are quite hard to differentiate. Perhaps underlining would be better? Krea (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Pos. Driver AUS BHR CHN AZE ESP MON CAN FRA AUT GBR GER HUN BEL ITA SIN RUS JPN MEX USA BRA ABU Points 0 Driver_C 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1† 2† 3† 4† 1 1 1 1 1 1* 1 1 1 $\infty$ 1 Driver_X 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1† 2† 3† 4† 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 Driver_Y 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1† 2† 3† 4† 3 3 3 3* 3 3 3 3 3 2 3 Driver_Z 1* 2* 3* 4* 1* 2* 3* 4* 1*† 2*† 3*† 4*† 4 4 4 4 4 4* 4 4 4 1

Above compares italic, asterisk and underlining for displaying fastest lap. AUS to GER (first 12 races) is a straight comparison, BEL to SIN (next 3 races) has 3 random drivers given the fastest lap using italics, RUS to MEX (next 3 races) has 3 random drivers given the fastest lap using asterisks, USA to ABU (final 3 races) has 3 random drivers given the fastest lap using underlining.

For me, italics is far too difficult to spot (BEL to SIN), and underlining is also not as clear as I hoped (USA to ABU). Using asterisks is the clearest, but it would look more ungainly where a dagger is also present; however, since it's pretty unlikely the two would ever be present together, and even if it did it wouldn't be the end of the world, then I think it should be the identifier used. Krea (talk) 00:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Alternative ideas:

1. using an overdot (<math>\dot{N}</math>): ${\dot {1}}$ ${\dot {5}}$ ${\dot {10}}$
2. using an overbar (<math>\bar{N}</math>): ${\bar {1}}$ ${\bar {5}}$ ${\bar {10}}$
3. formatting of the box (colour or border)

These alternatives are probably not a good idea. Alternatives 1 and 2 will need <math>...</math> tags. Alternative 3: if using a background colour, it would confuse the currently very nice colour usage. Colouring the numbers (especially with the coloured backgrounds) would probably not be very clear. If changing the border, it would be inconsistent with the current styling and would probably look really ugly. Krea (talk) 01:17, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Pos. Driver AUS BHR CHN AZE ESP MON CAN FRA AUT GBR GER HUN BEL ITA SIN RUS JPN MEX USA BRA ABU Points 1 Driver_A 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1† 2† 3† 4† 1 1 1 1+ 1 1 1 1• 1 400 2 Driver_B 1* 2* 3* 4* 1* 2* 3* 4* 1*† 2*† 3*† 4*† 2 2* 2 2 2 2 2• 2 2 300 3 Driver_C 1+ 2+ 3+ 4+ 1+ 2+ 3+ 4+ 1+† 2+† 3+† 4+† 3* 3 3 3 3 3+ 3 3 3• 200 4 Driver_D 1• 2• 3• 4• 1• 2• 3• 4• 1•† 2•† 3•† 4•† 4 4 4* 4 4+ 4 4 4 4 100

Comparison with italics (Driver_A), asterisk (Driver_B), addition symbol (Driver_C), and bullet (Driver_D). Comparing asterisk and the addition symbol, actually I think the latter is clearer. Likewise for using an addition symbol over a bullet. (There's also a nice consonance between the use of an addition symbol to mark the addition of a bonus point for fastest lap.) I will change the table to use the addition symbol on Monza qualifying Saturday (4 days' time). No doubt it will be reverted by someone, so I welcome objections, comments or suggestions below. Krea (talk) 20:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2019

update the template P1909 (talk) 20:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Edit requests are requests to make specific, precise edits, not general pleas for improvement. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 21:17, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done but @P1909: you are welcome to be bold and do it yourself.
SSSB (talk) 11:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2019

Hello,

I have noticed that for the 2019 F1 drivers and constructors standings tables that poles and fastest laps are displayed using letters next to the position that the driver finished the race in. In my opinion the F1 2019 standings should revert to the old format of bold for pole position and italics for Fastest lap. It was a neat and simple way of displaying pole positions and fastest laps. There was no clutter in the small boxes given for finishing positions. It is like how the IndyCar standings are done which I have always disliked for the same reason as here. The normal format is simple, clean, easy to see (have had no issues seeing on computer or tablet) And do not see why it should change. This is just my opinion and I hope that F1 drivers and constructors standing can be kept to the way normally used.

Thanks,

Passionate F1 fan. 2407:7000:8747:6724:8109:41F7:77F5:86D0 (talk) 11:14, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi,
These changes were made after a long discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Fastest Lap Indicator (and Table Key) - to cut a long story short, this change has been made to imporve accessability. You are of course welcome to discuss these changes at the afore linked centralised discussion if you think they can be imporved or to otherwise throw your opinion in to the ring. Thanks,
SSSB (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Remove semi-protection

Is anyone able to do that?--95.251.49.173 (talk) 15:50, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

You can place a request at WP:RPP.
SSSB (talk) 16:00, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

In which section do I have to ask correctly it? Thanks @SSSB:--95.251.49.173 (talk) 11:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:RPP#Current requests for reduction in protection level. But as that section suggests you should first ask the admin who added the protection User:HJ Mitchell.
SSSB (talk) 11:37, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. I've changed my mind. I will not do that.--95.251.49.173 (talk) 11:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2020

Hello, I am an established Formula 1 fan and started editing the pages and driver stats after the most recent Grand Prix and I believe I earned the right to be able to edit this but if you feel otherwise, That is completely fine with me. Farrisd (talk) 23:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

You will be able to edit this template and other protected pages when you become autoconfirmed.
5225_C (talk • contributions) 23:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Jack Frost (talk) 01:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Change

Pérez Withdrawn from the 2020 British Grand Prix Formula Uuno (talk) 19:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done
SSSB (talk) 19:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2020: Change WD for Sergio Perez

For the British Grand Prix, Sergio Perez' result should be changed from WD (Withdrawn) to DNP (Did not participate) as he was entered into the weekend but did not take part in any session. Withdrawn (WD) is used for drivers who were entered for the race, but were replaced before qualifying and after taking part in practice (an example would be Felipe Massa in the 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix). Mark John Mallia (talk) 10:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

He shouldn't have anything at all next to his name for this race, as he was replaced prior to the first session, with a new entry list being drawn up, voiding the previous entry list. Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Good point, I'll keep this unanswered until someone changes the result to a blank cell then. Mark John Mallia (talk) 13:35, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Mark John Mallia: this is currently being discussed at Talk:2020 Formula One World Championship where you are welcome to contribute. Until then it would be undue to make this blank.
SSSB (talk) 08:52, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Your description does not match with how use the WD code in the past. That has simply been applied to entrants who appeared on a entry list and later officially withdrew their entry without having qualified (otherwise it would be DNS), regardless of whether they actually drove in a session.Tvx1 21:12, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Qualifying classification link

It might be convenient for the readers to have the pole position ("P") indicator in the table linked to the corresponding GP qualifying classification. Now that classification is hidden behind the "Report" link, and you have to dig further to figure out how the session went. Ximaera (talk) 22:39, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Adding such a link would only save readers one click and frankly it wouldn't be easy to insert. It don't think the benefit would be that great. Also how the session "went" isn't really relevant to the standings.
SSSB (talk) 07:49, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree with SSSB. I don't see how this link would be useful.
5225_C (talk • contributions) 08:13, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Stroll as Did Not Practice: Eifel Grand Prix

I think Lance Stroll should be DNP on the standings For EIF JamesVilla44 (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Based on other keys (e.g. {{Template:Motorsport driver results legend}}, I believe DNP is meant to stand for "Did Not Participate" (as in, the competitor was present at the track and chose not to be involved) rather than "Did Not Practice" (Hülkenberg could be DNP then). Regardless, because Stroll was replaced on the entry list, withdrawn is the most appropriate result to record.
5225_C (talk • contributions) 23:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Sainz Broke

Sainz is showing results for the three GPs that haven't happened, but it looks like they aren't included in the total. This should leave a notification for whoever can edit, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MJCato (talk • contribs) 03:16, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

This was vandalism of {{F1R2020}} and has been reverted.
5225_C (talk • contributions) 03:54, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Sprint Qualifying at the British Grand Prix

Since Sprint Qualifying has been confirmed for the British GP, shouldn't we add a second column below the British Grand Prix? It would look like this:

Pos. Driver BHR EMI POR ESP MON AZE FRA STY AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA RUS JPN USA MXC SAP AUS SAU ABU Points 1 Max Verstappen 2P 1 2 2F 1 105 2 Lewis Hamilton 1 2PF 1 1P 7F 101 3 Lando Norris 4 3 5 8 3 56 4 Valtteri Bottas 3F Ret 3PF 3 Ret 47 5 Sergio Pérez 5 11 4 5 4 44 6 Charles Leclerc 6 4 6 4 DNSP P 40 7 Carlos Sainz Jr. 8 5 11 7 2 38 8 Daniel Ricciardo 7 6 9 6 12 24 9 Pierre Gasly 17† 7 10 10 6 16 10 Esteban Ocon 13 9 7 9 9 12 11 Sebastian Vettel 15 15† 13 13 5 10 12 Lance Stroll 10 8 14 11 8 9 13 Fernando Alonso Ret 10 8 17 13 5 14 Yuki Tsunoda 9 12 15 Ret 16 2 15 Antonio Giovinazzi 12 14 12 15 10 1 16 Kimi Räikkönen 11 13 Ret 12 11 0 17 George Russell 14 Ret 16 14 14 0 18 Nicholas Latifi 18† Ret 18 16 15 0 19 Mick Schumacher 16 16 17 18 18 0 20 Nikita Mazepin Ret 17 19 19 17 0 Pos. Driver BHR EMI POR ESP MON AZE FRA STY AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA RUS JPN USA MXC SAP AUS SAU ABU Points Source:

Key Colour Result Gold Winner Silver Second place Bronze Third place Green Other points position Blue Other classified position Not classified, finished (NC) Purple Not classified, retired (Ret) Red Did not qualify (DNQ) Did not pre-qualify (DNPQ) Black Disqualified (DSQ) White Did not start (DNS) Race cancelled (C) Blank Did not practice (DNP) Excluded (EX) Did not arrive (DNA) Withdrawn (WD) Did not enter (empty cell) Annotation Meaning P Pole position F Fastest lap

Notes:

• † – Driver did not finish the Grand Prix, but was classified as he completed more than 90% of the race distance.

Poklane 23:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Poklane: Please see the discussion at Talk:2021_Formula_One_World_Championship#Splitting_British_GP_Column_on_Race_results_for_SR. DH85868993 (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

No, we shouldn’t. Sprint qualifying positions do not count towards the championship. There are only some bonus points for the top three. Adding all positions would be confusing in case drivers are tied on points.Tvx1 17:41, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Use of Template:F1R2021 for 2021 season?

I'm just curious: why aren't we using Template:F1R2021 for this year's season? It's currently the data source for the Constructor's Championship template and the results on individual driver's pages. Would the community be open to changing this template to use Template:F1R2021 ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cin316 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

We tried to do that but we hit the WP:transclusion limit for 2021 Formula One World Championship.
SSSB (talk) 19:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Ahhh, that makes sense. I'm taking a stab at converting Template:F1R2021 to a Lua module. You can see my progress here. I'll certainly bring this up to the community for feedback if my experimentation makes it look like we should switch.
– Cin316 (talk) 03:52, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cin316: Thanks for having a go at converting Template:F1R2021 to a Lua module. Something to consider when designing the module is that on rare occasions, we need the background colour to not "match" the result, e.g. where a driver finishes in the top 10 but no points are awarded (see the McLaren row of 2007_Formula_One_World_Championship#World_Constructors'_Championship_standings as an example). So (on the assumption that we'll eventually adopt your module, and that it will be used as a model for future years) if you're tossing up between two ways of doing something and one would make non-standard background colours harder and one would make them easier, then I'd suggest going for the one that makes them easier. But it's not something we definitely need for 2021 so don't worry about it too much. (Off the top of my head, I can imagine something like the module supporting an optional extra parameter which lets the caller specify the background colour - for the majority of cases, the caller would not specify the parameter and the module would determine the colour, but the caller could specify the parameter and hence override the default colour if required, e.g. the 2007 WCC table). DH85868993 (talk) 05:10, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@Tvx1: pinging Tvx1, who I seem to recall suggested this in the past.
SSSB (talk) 10:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Cin316. I'm very happy to read that you are willing to create a lua module for us. I had indeed suggested that our wikiproject started using lua modules some time ago. I'm not familiar enough with lua myself though to create an entire module myself. However, I think we would be more helped with a general module for creating our results tables rather than a module that is only intended for one specific season.Tvx1 16:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Cin316: just curious, has this been frozen for now? cherkash (talk) 22:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Cherkash: Yeah, unfortunately I haven't had time to work on it lately. It shouldn't be too difficult, but I'm busy at the moment. If anyone else wants to take a stab at it, the code is on that template page for anyone to edit. Cin316 (talk) 03:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Google sheets to automate standings tables

(Also cross-posted to Constructors as an example, and to the wikiproject talk page)

I've put together a google sheets to fill in the race results which will automatically generate this table: 2023 Formula 1-2-3-E wiki tables. It's currently set to comment-only to avoid disruptive editing, might be worth a discussion as to how editing permissions on this should work going forward.

In lieu of having any actual results to load into it for now, I've put in some sample data (mostly the first few races of 2022, including a sprint) to test:

1 Charles Leclerc 1P F 2F 1P F 62 86 2 Max Verstappen 19† 1 Ret 1P 1 58 3 Sergio Pérez 18† 4P 2 23 54 4 George Russell 4 5 3 4 49 5 Carlos Sainz 2 3 Ret Ret4 38 6 Lando Norris 15 7 5 35 35 7 Lewis Hamilton 3 10 4 13 28 8 Valtteri Bottas 6 Ret 8 57 24 9 Esteban Ocon 7 6 7 14 20 10 Kevin Magnussen 5 9 14 98 15 11 Oscar Piastri 14 Ret 6 186 11 12 Yuki Tsunoda 8 DNS 15 7 10 13 Pierre Gasly Ret 8 9 12 6 14 Nyck de Vries Ret 8 4 15 Fernando Alonso 9 Ret 17 Ret 2 16 Zhou Guanyu 10 11 11 15 1 16 Alexander Albon 13 14† 10 11 1 18 Lance Stroll 12 13 12 10 1 19 Nico Hülkenberg 11 WD 13 17 0 20 Logan Sargeant 16 Ret 16 16F 0

Things the sheet CAN do:

• Fill in the correct background colour for the position
• Add superscript pole / sprint position / fastest lap
• Calculate points for the race, sprint, and fastest lap (and if you get a point for fastest lap at all)
• Sort the table, including up to two iterations of countback
• Generate and sort the Constructors' table as well

Things I'll have to do manually:

• Deal with mid-season driver changes (e.g. if Lance Stroll can't drive in Bahrain, or if Red Bull swaps their second driver, etc.)
• Remake the table for 2024

Things the sheet CAN'T do:

• Handle unexpected formatting, e.g. in 2007 when McLaren were disqualified mid-season so all their results from then on were technically non-points-scoring positions (i.e. blue)
• Apply countback more than twice (see P16 in the example)
• Put a single P in pole position in the one day between qualifying and the race

How the sheet will be used:

Race positions are added into the top-left table (F3:AH22). Pole position and fastest lap are added as driver numbers in rows 24 and 25.

Columns DG-EG on rows 3-22 produce the sorted Drivers' Championship table. You copy/paste the cells into a simple text editor (I use Notepad++) and replace all instances of a tab with a new line (in Notepad++ this is \t → \n with "Extended" search mode on). Then, just copy/paste that into the main body of the table here.

If something strange happens track-side (e.g. McLaren's 2007 DSQ), manual adjustment may be needed. I'll aim to hardcode any one-off weirdness into the sheet by the next race.

Please let me know what you think! AsmodeanUnderscore (talk) 15:00, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Please make any comments at the WP:CENTRALised discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Google sheets to automate standings tables. SSSB (talk) 16:35, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Adding "Team" to Driver Standings table

I tried to add a team column to this table and BryOn2205U reverted it. I think this is a useful addition to the chart. The fact that team information has been missing from the chart has always bothered me. Confirming a driver's team requires checking their page, a time-consuming process.

This was a good-faith edit that improves the table without, to my knowledge, exceeding the transclusion limit, and it is in line with F1's practices. I also noticed that BryOn2205U has been warned about unnecessary reversion before.

I am reverting BryOn2205U's reversion and would remind them that an edit war is against Wiki policy: Revert Only When Necessary. Please change or edit the additions to improve them, but please do not just destroy them wholesale. Wikipedia belongs to everyone. Knowledgeispow333r (talk) 22:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

• This is the drivers' standings, so teams aren't relevant here. We've discussed this before, and consensus has never developed for them to be included. It's not the purpose of the WDC table to show the WCC as well, nor is it the purpose of the WCC table to show the WDC results. It gets unwieldy and overcomplicated the second a driver changes team mid-season. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 02:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  Changes midseason are simple: Team listed is current team. It certainly works for the F1's official standings, which I linked to above.

  How do we determine consensus?

  Wikipedia is supposed to be nimble and open to all. A Knowledgeispow333r (talk) 04:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  • • Those aren't the official standings. These are. You will note the conspicuous lack of teams in the WDC table, and likewise the lack of drivers in the WCC table. Your suggestion to only list current team would be misleading, since it was misattribute results. It would also undermine the supposed reason for this proposed change. If you'd like to propose a change to these tables, please start a discussion at WT:F1. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 04:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

    @Knowledgeispow333r: consensus was determ8ned after previous discussions. Wikipedia is open, and consensus can change, but please respect the exisiting consensus until it does. I also second 5225C's argument SSSB (talk) 13:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

point remaining row

How about adding a row to this table with maxiumum remaining points in the championship at the start of each race. I.e. at the start of seasons this would be 620 (for this year) as there are 25 points (max) + 1 point max for win an fastest lap for 23 races and an additional 6*8 max point for sprint races. Such a row would allow readers to get a grasp when championship can be secured, and who can still win at what time in the season. (ie any driver tailing more than the max remaining can no longer overtake the no 1 ranked at that race) Arnoutf (talk) 20:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

E.g for this year this might be a bottom row like (zooming in at 26 (25+fasterst lap) left in the last race:

BHR

SAU AUS AZE MIA MON ESP CAN AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA SIN JPN QAT USA MXC SAP LVG ABU

620

594 568 534 508 482 456 430 396 370 344 310 284 258 232 206 172 138 112 78 52 26

• This isn't a bad idea, but the problem is we don't show points cumulatively after each race, we only show the points total. So the use case you've described isn't possible. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 03:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

World Champion border

Pos. Driver BHR SAU AUS AZE MIA MON ESP CAN AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA SIN JPN QAT USA MXC SAP LVG ABU Points 1 Max Verstappen 1P 2F 1P 23 1F 1P 1PF 1P 1P 1 F 1PF 1F 11 1P 1 5 1PF 1P 2 F 11 466 2 Sergio Pérez 2 1P 5F 11 2P 16 4 6F 32 6 3 2 4 2 8 Ret 10 45 240 3 Lewis Hamilton 5 5 2 67 6 4F 2 3 8 3 4P 47 F 6 6 3F 5 Ret5 DSQ2 201 Pos. Driver BHR SAU AUS AZE MIA MON ESP CAN AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA SIN JPN QAT USA MXC SAP LVG ABU Points Source:

Pos. Constructor BHR SAU AUS AZE MIA MON ESP CAN AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA SIN JPN QAT USA MXC SAP LVG ABU Points 1 Red Bull Racing-Honda RBPT 1P 1P 1P 11 1F 1P 1PF 1P 1P 1 F 1PF 1F 11 1P 1 5 1PF 1P 2 F 11 1 1P 1 1 1PF 860 2 2F 5F 23 2P 16 4 6F 32 6 3 2 4 2 8 Ret 10 45 Ret 43 3 4 2 Mercedes 5 4 2 67 4 4F 2 3 78 3 4P 47 F 6 5 3F 5 44 58 6 Ret4 8 3 409 7 5 Ret 84 F 6 5 3 Ret 8 5 6 68 17 6 16† 7 Ret5 DSQ2 2F 87 7 9 Pos. Constructor BHR SAU AUS AZE MIA MON ESP CAN AUT GBR HUN BEL NED ITA SIN JPN QAT USA MXC SAP LVG ABU Points Source:

References

I am proposing we add a simple gold border to the race in which someone secured the Drivers' Championship. My proposed formatting is included above. We could easily include this in the Constructor's as well (shown also) if people found this a positive addition. Cerebral726 (talk) 14:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - the World Championship is not secured until the FIA Prize Giving Ceremony in Baku in December. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:45, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Not according to Formula 1 or several other reliable sources: [1][2][3][4]. Consensus, backed up by numerous articles (2023 Qatar Grand Prix, 2023 Japanese Grand Prix, and the posting to WP:ITN) is that once it is mathematically secured, it's secured. Cerebral726 (talk) 16:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Is it? Says who? I was under the impression that this was just when the trophy is given out... SSSB (talk) 22:34, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

It has always been my understanding that because of the possibility of protests and whatnot, an F1 champion isn't formally crowned until the gala in December. I would suggest this article by Jonathan Noble of Motor Sport pretty much nails it:

Its regulations have long stipulated that the champions are only crowned at the FIA Prize Gala which takes place at the end of the season.

-- Scjessey (talk) 13:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

From the article you linked F1's booming audience and desire to attract new fans has prompted some calls for a change of approach – and that the trophy gets given out to the driver on the night when the title is secured. My proposal is in regarding to that exact situation: when the title is secured, which Jonathan Noble agrees was on Saturday during the Qatar Grand Prix Cerebral726 (talk) 13:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

It's important that you understand that the title is not secured. While Verstappen is the de facto winner, the reason the official award is left until December is that there may be protests that lead to Verstappen losing points. Points penalties are one of the many tools stewards have for dealing with infractions:

For major technical violations that call into question the legality of a team’s full season performance, the FIA can disqualify them from the constructor’s and driver’s championships altogether. This penalty strips all points earned over the entire season. It is the ultimate last resort for breaches like illegally circumventing fuel flow meters or using banned traction control systems. The massive cost of losing all championship bonuses and prize money serves as a deterrent to major technical cheating.

Of course, this is extremely unlikely and once Verstappen has received his official award it is my understanding that it is a done deal (although Massa wants to believe otherwise). -- Scjessey (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I won’t support this. This is just undue for this table. This information is generally already present in the article’s lead and prose. We discussed these things before and consensus was always against.Tvx1 13:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Why do you feel it is undue? To me, a driver securing the title is one of (if not the) most important points of the season. Also, would you mind linking to any previous discussions? Cerebral726 (talk) 13:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

No it’s not the most important information in that table. The most import information is WHO won the title and who finished in which other position. The information you request is already in these articles in two are places. Tvx1 17:03, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

To be clear, I don't think it's the most important information in the table, what I said was just that it's a critical moment in the season. While I agree it is well-represented in the article's prose, I think this table (along with the Constructors' table) is an extremely helpful, oft-cited visual summary of the entire season at a glance. Having that crucial moment subtly highlighted in a non-intrusive way seems like a net benefit for readers. (Also let me know if you can find any prior discussion on this topic, I wasn't able to from my searching. Thanks!) Cerebral726 (talk) 17:14, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I think you are making more of it than it is in reality. In a case like this season when it was clear for a long time who would win it, where it was won eventually was of little importance. Tvx1 21:20, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not a critical moment in the season. Sometimes, it might be. But it definetly wasn't critical this season. Whether Verstappen secured it in Japan, Qatar or USA is largely irrelevant when considering the season's results. The primary purpose of this table is to display the results, so that we don't have to list the results in running prose. Where the title was secured (pending any challeneges) isn't directly relevant to the season's results. So I would say any argument that suggests this info is essential to these tables is plucking at straws. SSSB (talk) 06:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

No. Completely unnecessary. You are trying to convey information in a table unrelated. The table is of the results, not of the progression of the championship. Tables should not be forced to convey information beyond simplistic scope or before to long there will shadings for weather at the race, a different shading as to weather the race was a awarded half-points for insufficient distance and so on. Then a silver box for when second place was wrapped up. Bronze box for third. Purple box for fourth maybe? When the championship was "secured" is information to be carried as prose in the race report and the season article, not in the table. --Falcadore (talk) 06:47, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Propose Making Driver Name Sticky

I'd like to propose that the driver name should always appear on the left hand side of the table, even if a user scrolls the table to the right. At present the points scored sticks to the right hand side of the table, which is very helpful. In my opinion keeping the driver name visible at all times would be an improvement, especially when browsing mid-table. Cashew.wheel (talk) 12:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Keeping the points sticky was easy because they are in the last column and so can be stuck to the right, but you can't do that with the driver names because there is a column between them and the left side of the table that makes sticking them to the left awkward. I'll give it some thought though. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

"Completed more than 90% of the race distance." note

Can the note about 'completed more than 90% of the race distance.' be moved to the annotations in the legend? 85.148.134.154 (talk) 08:21, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

It probably would make more sense there... SSSB (talk) 13:23, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Dark mode error: points column numbers not visible

User bug report copied over from dark mode bug reports

Issue Description Black numbers and text on dark grey background in the "points" columns of the charts which show the standings for the drivers and constructor's championships. Low contrast, poor readability. JScherer-WMF (talk) 16:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Can someone change the colours of the points column for dark mode compatibility? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:4b00:e809:a00:6898:64d7:7707:aec4 (talk) 15:15, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Please let me know if the issue persists. Kovcszaln6 (talk) 13:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2024

Please change Kevin Magnussen’s AZE from blank to “EX” since the FIA excluded him from participating in that round due to penalty points. Thanks.

Source: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/magnussen-rues-big-consequence-for-haas-as-he-reflects-on-italian-gp-penalty.1pCxVO5EIZ65NDkmJOents 184.15.9.5 (talk) 15:14, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

No. He was never entered for the round because of his ban. --Marbe166 (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Precisely why he was not entered. He wasn't entered because he was excluded from entering. 184.15.9.5 (talk) 19:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

To be excluded from a round, you need to be entered for it. Magnussen was not permitted to enter. That's the difference. --Marbe166 (talk) 19:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

He wasn't excluded from entering. He was banned. That's not the same thing. SSSB (talk) 20:56, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

F1 driver standings template

I think we should return to the old system of FL = italics and Pole = bold since every other wiki still uses that (I know they aren't affiliated with the English wiki but I still like the old presentation better). Some of the old seasons still haven't been changed to the new presentation after years.

You should also consider changing the template to show sprint races as a separate column since there are six of them and they reward a significant amount of points. Especially since they are now stand alone races. If you are going to decide to show the best manufacturer result in one column and the worst in another column (which again hasn't been fixed for seasons before 2014) then you shouldn't display poles or FL (my reasoning is that they don't appear in the WCC section from 1958-1978 when they only counted the best result from a manufacturer to the WCC and FL didn't count for WCC points in 1958-1959) or put them in a separate section like the H2H section on some other wiki projects. DownwardSpiral1000 (talk) 16:06, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

The "new" presentation (use of P and F) was implemented on the basis of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility. Namely, for the visually impaired who can't differentiate bold and italics when using a screen reader. Accessibility trumps Wikipedia:ILIKEIT every day of the week (by the way, I like P and F). No, this has not been implemented consistently across old seasons. This is something that needs to be done. Feel free to contribute.

We have a very strong and clear consensus against having a seperate column for sprints. That is because sprint results and Grand Prix results do not have the same weight. Formula One and most other sources would credit Oscar Piastri with 2 wins (2024 Hungarian Grand Prix and 2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix, they do not count 2023 Qatar Grand Prix's sprint among his win total. Likewise, spint results are not used as part of the countback system in the event that 2 drivers end the season on equal points. On both these counts, F1 is very different to series such as 2024 Formula 2 Championship. And much more closely aligned to 2024 MotoGP World Championship, who follow a similar approach to us. Having sprints as their own column would imply that sprints results are worth as much as a regular race result in the aforementioned aspects (race win count (likewise podiums, fastest laps and poles) and countback).

It hasn't been fixed for season before 2014, because they operate on one row per car (not driver as some people incorrectly claim). Back then cars could easily be identified by the car number, as drivers did not have career numbers. Since 2014, drivers have a career number and it was no longer practical to have one row per car (how would you distinish the rows, when in 2023 one car ran with three different numbers, and in 2020 Racing Point ran number 27 on both cars at various points in the season; to give you but two examples of why this is impracticle).

More to the point, why are you only advocating removing FL and Poles if we retain best result first, but not if we return to one row per car? Regardless of how we lay out the table, poles and FL carry the same amount of weight towards the championship. There is therefore no justifiable reason to advocate removing them only if we retain the current presentation style. And we must show FL, because FL points are awarded. Finally, a H2H (head to head?) section would be a clear Wikipedia:NOSTAT violation. SSSB (talk) 18:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, literally every other wiki that I am aware of uses the old system; French, Spanish, German, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, etc. so why it is only a problem here? There are already other things that probably break Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility but no one has changed [the results pages] because they are holdovers [from decades ago]. You could apply the same logic to the individual drivers' results since those use italics and bold and apparently can't be read by a screen reader. Someone else edited the results page on the Felipe Massa article because the font size is apparently too small and breaks Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility and no one is changing any of that even though they've been like that for a decade. Actually, it's been cited several times in arguments here even outside of WikiProject:Formula1 and is mostly ignored or reverted.

I know the German wiki marks the sprint race and feature race separately from 2022 and the NASCAR 2017 NCS season still shows the Daytona Twin 125s as separate columns (which is when they started awarding 10 points for a win in either split compared to 46 for a win (???)). You are right that F1 or MotoGP don't count sprint races for countback but F2 prioritises feature races over sprint races in countback (Article 7.3) I saw people claiming that Piastri "won" half jokingly immediately after the sprint race. It's still good information to see how someone scored in the sprint race or you could just add how many points someone scored on a race week.

This feels like a fallacious argument since

1. The vast majority of drivers will see out a full season with one team though midseason swaps aren't unheard of.

2. Again, this isn't an issue for literally any other wiki I know since they put the driver's number or drivers name next to their results for their constructors.

Like I said, look at the old results from when they only counted the best finisher per constructor in the WCC and they don't display FLs or Poles (only bold for X finishes counting for the championship which is redundant). If you want to go with best finisher per manufacturer then it's incongruent that we are displaying other achievements scored by the "worse" finisher or the "worse" finisher can technically score more points in a weekend with sprint races. It could easily be it's own column or separate table. DownwardSpiral1000 (talk) 19:51, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

In fact, who is even a fan of F1 (audiovisual media) who is visually impaired or would need a screenreader. Maybe there are some people who need it for research but there are other databases that do that. WP:Accessibility is not being followed anyways since the tables and infobox already use downsized fonts and WP:Accessibility is barely enforced as is. I don't feel like using the superscript P F letters is an improvement for accessibility unless you are literally legally blind and need a screenreader but then that circles around to why are you following F1 at all? DownwardSpiral1000 (talk) 20:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

This is a meritless argument. Cerebral726 (talk) 21:27, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. Your rebuttal to the accessibility issue is: "there are other accessibility issues, what's one more" and "a blind person couldn't watch an F1 race, so why we would accomdate them here". I agree with Cerebral, these arguements are meritless. The only correct response to what you've pointed out is to fix the accessibility issues in other places. Secondly, this is not an F1 fansite, it is an encylopedia. There will be many readers of our articles who do not follow F1, and blind people can and do follow Formula One. Have you never heard of radio commentary.

We are not the French, Spanish, German, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, etc wikipedias. Nor are we wikiproject NASCAR. We are independent. We have decided that the "old" way doesn't work for us, they have stuck to the "old" way. We have adopted our method after discussion and consensus. You are welcome to change that consensus, but I should warn you, the arguments you have made so far are not convincing. In fact, the only food for thought you have provided is that I don't think we considered the "German method" of one row per car. SSSB (talk) 21:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll join the pile-on and state that our current system is the work of many editors who have contributed to many discussions and debates, it has not been arbitrarily plucked out of thin air. If you want to overturn what has become a longstanding consensus you will have an awful lot of people to convince, myself included. WT:F1 is the place to go if you'd like to start the process of forming a new consensus on results presentation. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 02:13, 1 November 2024 (UTC)