Template talk:Country data New Caledonia

Requested edit

{{editprotected}}

This template is protected, and should be tagged with {{protected template}}, or another suitable protection template. Thanks – Qxz 20:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Tagged on talk page. Neil (not Proto ►) 22:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Use the local flag for basketball alias. See this. --Howard the Duck 04:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That's done by adding the local parameter - {{flag|New Caledonia|local}} or {{flagicon|New Caledonia|local}} - at the appropriate article. No change needed here. Angus McLellan (Talk)

 Done Actually, a change is useful here, and I have made it. These templates are also used by national sport team templates such as {{bk}} and {{bkw}} (for basketball, in this case) and sport-specific flags are intended to be automatically chosen by default. See Template:Country data Martinique and Template:Country data Chinese Taipei for some other precedents. Andrwsc 16:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit request from , 6 November 2011

Change the flag to the French one for the football template, as they still use the tricolour according to FIFA [1]. The Oceania Football Confederation site [2] doesn't have flags so I don't know their stance. Seems too much effort changing 'New Caledonia' to '{{fb|NCL|1853}}' if they don't use their local flag for the sport. VEO^onefive 14:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Done If FIFA changes their mind, please let us know by filing a new request. Anomie⚔ 23:40, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 June 2013

Hope this is the right form. Anyway, As above, FIFA now use the local flag for the football team so it needs reverting. [3] VEO^onefive 23:15, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 10:39, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 23 June 2016

Hello. Could somebody please change the default flag for New Caledonia that is File:Flags of New Caledonia.svg with File:Flag of FLNKS.svg? The former is not the actual flag of the French territory but an artificial and unofficial stitching of the two official flags on the islands. Thank-you. --Neve–selbert 03:07, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

According to Flag of New Caledonia, the 2010 motion is to fly the new flag "alongside the French tricolor". According to this, New Caledonia has "2 official national flags". Perhaps someone else can look into this and mark it done/not done. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 16:23, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Indeed. But stitching up the two flags as if the two flags were united in one single flag is misleading at best and a blatant fabrication at worst.--Neve–selbert 23:52, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Disabling this request as I think more discussion is needed. Please reactivate when there is a consensus for this change — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:35, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Note that it did use the single flag until two days ago, when File:Flag of New Caledonia.svg was retargeted at Commons by Bouette. SiBr₄ (talk) 19:05, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Well, that new default look of the template is very ugly.

If it is essential that both flags be displayed, I think they'd better be displayed separately, something like that:

New Caledonia

The stitching could be mistaken for being a single flag with an especially large width-to-height ratio. As Neve-selbert said it, it's "misleading at best and a blatant fabrication at worst", and I'd add it raises WP:NOR issues. And even if it stays, it probably needs some other default size. The current width restriction makes it too tiny.

The template must at least be enabled to produce the Kanak flag alone (bolded because this is the actual request). Now it can produce either the French tricolour alone or the stitching of the two, but not the Kanak flag only. I think this is sufficiently uncontroversial so I'm reactivating the {{edit template-protected}}.

And it's a good idea to discuss when to use either flag or both flags of New Caledonia. For Northern Ireland, the Ulster Banner is displayed in sports contexts, even though Northern Ireland has no official flag on its own, the only official flag there being UK's Union Jack. There are also a number of sports flags for Taiwan (Chinese Taipei). And so on. --Theurgist (talk) 05:03, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Changed the file here, though maybe the edit at Commons should be reverted as well. SiBr₄ (talk) 13:56, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to a reversion and notification at Commons. I think the edit there shouldn't have been marked as minor, as it affected thousands of pages. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 14:38, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@SiBr₄: Now it can produce the Kanak flag (by default) or the French tricolour (by specification of a parameter), but not the stitching of the two. As much as I dislike the stitching, I guess it was made for a reason and probably should be enabled too. --Theurgist (talk) 16:28, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Done: {{flag|New Caledonia|both}} → New Caledonia. I also added a french variant for the Tricolore, because of the semantic difference with the 1853 variant. SiBr₄ (talk) 19:31, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Can this one please be made the default one, as to reflect the current legal situation? To portray the pro independence flag as the default sole New Caledonia flag simply isn't true. Worse, considering how polemical the matter is, it make wikipedia appear non neutral on the issue.--Aréat (talk) 07:25, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 23 March 2018

Update the template from the sandbox so the flag used by FIFA (confirmed here) is included in the template. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 17:34, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done Primefac (talk) 17:09, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 June 2018

File:Flag of France (1794–1815).svg was moved to File:Flag of France (1794–1958).svg, needs to be updated in template. Phanto1999 (talk) 15:33, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done StevenJ81 (talk) 16:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 3 September 2018

The 1853 variant is not displaying.

Does

| flag alias-1853 = Flag of France (1794–1958).svg

need changing to

| flag alias-1853 = File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1958).svg ? TheBigJagielka (talk) 09:32, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:38, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Both flags

Can this one New Caledonia please be made the default one, as to reflect the current legal situation? To portray the FLNKS flag as the default sole New Caledonia flag simply isn't true. Worse, considering how polemical the matter is, it make wikipedia appear non neutral on the issue. Both flags are in use.--Aréat (talk) 00:53, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I would not support that per the previous discussion about this very subject:

If it is essential that both flags be displayed, I think they'd better be displayed separately, something like that:

New Caledonia

The "both" parameter works, but stitching them together is seldom better for the reader. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree that it would be better, but is there any ways to make such a template appear when typing the basic template name format?--Aréat (talk) 01:21, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Because this template uses {{Country showdata}}, I'm not sure how easy it would be for the template editors to do that. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I would also prefer for the Neo caldonian assembly to do what they were told to more than twenty years ago and make one damn common flag for the two communities, but halas currently we're still stuck with both being in equal use. As mentioned in the flag talk page, this is a very touchy matter. Until there's a common flag, we should use both. Quite the exceptional situation we got here.--Aréat (talk) 01:44, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Condisering the change of the main page on Flags of New Caledonia, can someone edit the template here so that New Caledonia show what is currently "both". Thanks.--Aréat (talk) 15:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Default setting

The consensus is that the default setting of this template should be the "both" setting to be consistent with the consensus at Flags of New Caledonia that both flags are displayed side-by-side.

Cunard (talk) 04:34, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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In order to be consistent with the consensus at Flags of New Caledonia that both flags are displayed side-by-side, should the default setting of this template be the "both" setting? RfC relisted by Cunard (talk) at 23:46, 21 April 2019 (UTC). Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 15:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

As the user that initiated this RFC my !vote should not be counted redundantly, I support being consistent with the consensus at Flags of New Caledonia despite personally pursuing a different outcome at the relevant article's RFC. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 15:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I support being consistent as well. As one can read on the main page, displaying only the FLNKS flag isn't neutral for Wikipedia, as it is a controversial issue on the island. Every official building display the french tricolour, but not all of them display the FLNKS one, which isn't mandatory and is still considered by many in the south as the "flag of the independentists" (not my opinion here). It is unusual for a territory to have two flags, but that's the reality there as long as both sides in the local government doesn't agree on a common flag, as they should be following the Matignon treaty. --Aréat (talk) 15:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: A procedural note: it is customary to style your !vote in boldface, and appearing first on a bullet-item line. See next !vote. Mathglot (talk) 04:40, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose for cosmetic reasons; the dual-flag is small and confusing at the default size. Someone confronted with it in a table column, where all the other icons are single flags, may easily be confused. The default should be one of the single-flag options. This can, of course, be overridden by selecting both, but it should not be the default. Consistency should not trump clarity. WP:Consistency is a failed 2008 proposal for good reason. Mathglot (talk) 04:40, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

• Perhaps the template could instead contain a note recommending that editors use {{flagicon|France}}{{flag|New Caledonia}} to produce New Caledonia? This is an unusual situation where there are two co-official flags, and due to technical obstacles (such as the both parameter resulting in a very small icon) it's not easy to determine the best course of action. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 15:44, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

• Support The icon is annoyingly small, but it's consistent with the consensus elsewhere and the only way to really be neutral on this issue. I think that in this case, neutrality trumps aesthetics. I voted in the previous discussion at Flags of New Caledonia, but arrived to this discussion as a result of being summoned by a bot _signed, Rosguill ^talk 05:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
• Support (via FRS) - I think that consistency here is important, if there is a circumstance where displaying both flags is problematic, the setting can be overriden. StudiesWorld (talk) 10:27, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template-protected edit request on 20 October 2019

Please implement the consensus of the above RfC:

The consensus is that the default setting of this template should be the "both" setting to be consistent with the consensus at Flags of New Caledonia that both flags are displayed side-by-side.

Aréat (talk · contribs) asked me here to help implement the RfC result. Thanks, Cunard (talk) 00:58, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done for now: the default can be changed easily, but should there should be an alias to obtain the FLNKS flag after this change has been made? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 06:47, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

A "FLNKS" variant should be added, yes. Is it difficult?--Aréat (talk) 16:26, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Aréat, now  Done, and I've added a "FLNKS" variant. I've also manually increased the size when displaying both flags, so it appears as instead of . S.A. Julio (talk) 19:18, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! And it look better indeed. Have a great day. --Aréat (talk) 19:34, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:flaglist and New Caledonia link text overlapping flags

Template:flaglist

{{flaglist|New Caledonia (France)}}

Please see:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate&oldid=927094380

Is there any way to move the link text to the right of the 2 flags? Right now the link text is overlapping the flags.

I have posted this also at Template talk:Flaglist. -- Timeshifter (talk) 09:33, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

This is bc S.A. Julio increased the size when displaying both flags a month ago.

@Timeshifter: Is there any way to move the link text to the right of the 2 flags?

{{flaglist}} aligns the country names on a list in spite of varying flag widths. Apparently it has a maximum width New Caledonia's new combined flag exceeds. The flag has either to be scaled back to this max width, or all country names moved rightward on {{flaglist}}. This is also probably why FIFA adopted instead. I see no problem in doing the same here. Guarapiranga (talk) 23:10, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree. Keep it within the max width as per the flag in Guarapiranga's post. -- Ham105 (talk) 00:09, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

The default size of the flag is too small (), so it needed to be increased. A simple solution is to use the local flag when displaying New Caledonia through {{Flaglist}}. S.A. Julio (talk) 00:44, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

People on Wikipedia will start wars over flags. :) I like the FIFA idea: -- Timeshifter (talk) 03:02, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

While certainly a more convenient size, the FIFA flag holds no official status outside of football. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:31, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

That leads to the question of whether there is any official source for this stitched together flag? Does this composition with the FLNKS design on the right and tricolour on the left come from a congressional decision? -- Ham105 (talk) 16:57, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

New Caledonia. There needs to be a default flag that fits the width used by {{flaglist}} that doesn't require adding a parameter. {{flaglist|New Caledonia (France)}} versus {{flaglist|New Caledonia (France)|local}} I don't see any official flag in the New Caledonia articles. So let's use the FIFA flag: . If it is good enough for crazy soccer fans, it's good enough for our compromise for now. -- Timeshifter (talk) 09:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Technical question about Template:Flaglist

{{flaglist|New Caledonia (France)}}

Is there a technical reason this can't be corrected in the {{flaglist}} template so that both flags are shown at full size side by side with the text to the right of both flags? Without the text overlapping the flags.

The recent consensus higher up was that both flags must be shown. See this section higher up: #Default setting

We don't need perfection in {{flaglist}} lists. It is OK if one item is not perfectly vertically aligned. -- Timeshifter (talk) 04:47, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

Can somebody add |flag alias-basketball = Flag of FLNKS.svg? FIBA uses that flag [4]. DenSportgladeSkåningen (talk) 11:19, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@DenSportgladeSkåningen:  Done S.A. Julio (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio: Thanks. I forgot one, can you add |flag alias-baseball = Flag of FLNKS.svg? WBSC also uses the local flag [5][6]. DenSportgladeSkåningen (talk) 08:18, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done S.A. Julio (talk) 15:11, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Edit request 2

Can somebody add |flag alias-handball = Flag of FLNKS.svg? IHF uses that flag [7] (click on OCHF). DenSportgladeSkåningen (talk) 13:49, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Seem like it also use both to me [8]--Aréat (talk) 02:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

The left box is for logos, the right box is for the flag used by IHF, compare with other members, Brazil, Faroe Islands, Greenland DenSportgladeSkåningen (talk) 14:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)