Template talk:Albanians

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Kosovo

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Ethnic groups

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Kosovo War

It's ridiculous not to include the Kosovo War as an incident involving persecution of Albanians. Also, regarding the old "is Kosovo part of Serbia question", yes it is, Noah, get used to it; this has been debated again and again; you cannot present a province of Serbia as a separate entity from Serbia (see Talk:Albanians). WP:NPOV#Undue weight - any Atlas will tell you that Kosovo is a province of Serbia. //Dirak 22:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

see template:Serbs. They use Kosovo since the headline points that the list includes both regions and countries.

Haha, I created Template:Serbs. The only reason I did that is because there is no article about Serbs in Serbia. Kosovo is an internationally recognised part of Serbia, and you haven't opposed the other edits, so back it goes until you have something of substance to say. And sign your posts please. --Еstavisti 01:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dirak, even if we accept that Albanians were persecuted in the Kosovo War, we still shouldn't link to it in that rubric. Let me put it like this - is the Holocaust the same as WW2? If it is insisted upon, the best place for it is the history rubric. --Еstavisti 01:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Illyrians

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-42640/Albania

The origins of the Albanian people are not definitely known, but data drawn from history and from linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological studies have led to the conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants of the ancient Illyrians and that the latter were natives of the lands they inhabited. Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian apparently occurring between the 4th and 6th centuries AD.

http://www.ce-review.org/99/18/vaknin18.html

There is very little dispute among serious (that is, non-Greek, non-Macedonian and non-Serb) scholars that the Albanians are an ancient people, the descendants of the Illyrians or, as a small minority insists, of the Thracians. The Albanian language is a rather newer development (less than 1500 years old) - but it can also be traced back either to Thracian or to Illyrian. In a region obsessed with history, real and (especially) invented, these 4000-year-old facts are of enormous and practical import. --Noah30 22:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The CE-review source by Sam Vanik is not a reliable source to ascertain the origin of the Albanians, check his credentials [1]; he's no historian or expert in the field. Britannica is another matter, so I won't be deleting the Illyrians, however, don't forget that it still says "[t]he origins of the Albanian people are not definitely known".--Domitius 22:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image

@Vif12vf Can you please stop edit warring/ deleting my constructive contributions? The symbol I am adding is still in use, and is more inclusive of Albanians of Kosovo, Greece, Italy, Croatia, Arbereshe, and Arvanite, plus the diaspora community not just the citizens of the moden Republic of Albania (most albanians have never lived in the republic of albania and are not from there). that symbol is non inclusive and is actually inaccurate considering this is a template for the ethnicity, not the country. There is a separate template for the republic of albania where the coat of arms is included. Brikcity (talk) 06:08, 6 July 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock:Brikcity.[reply]

I think the question here essentially is - is there any evidence of that flag being widely used by Albanian diaspora and communities in countries bordering Albania? If so, ok. If not, better stick with the current one. --Soman (talk) 11:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yep, I believe it has more precedent to be used as its the flag most common among all the different albanians, most notably the arvanite, and arbereshe, who are not part of the diaspora from the modern republic of albania, but are native to greece and italy, respectively (this is also reflected in the template itself). the coat of arms of modern albania isn't really representative of anyone outside of that state. I think i'll go back to using this flag for the sake of inclusion, but I'm happy to continue this conversation, especially with any Albanians who feel otherwise Brikcity (talk) 00:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock:Brikcity.[reply]

I agree with @Brikcity: the current image is the best representative one. – Βατο (talk) 08:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what editors personally think or prefer; are there any reliable sources that indicate that this flag is widely used by Albanians around the world? The file description of File:Albania Flag.png calls it "the flag Skanderbeg rose" and provides primary sources depicting the family crest design in the flag, but not the actual flag itself. It seems to me that this file was a modern recreation of a 15th-century flag as described in written sources. Neither the file description nor the comments in this discussion have indicated that the flag is widely used by Albanians beyond "just trust me". Yue🌙 02:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The symbol of ethnic Albanians is the symbol of their national hero, Skanderbeg, and this is his flag, which has been historically reproduced by all Albanian flags in Albania, Kosovo, Italy, etc. If an image is to be added to this template, this flag is the most representative one. – Βατο (talk) 07:07, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source other than your word? If the use of Skanderbeg's symbols is so widespread these days, then it should be quite easy to provide at least one reliable source (in any language, particularly Albanian) that backs up that claim, no? Yue🌙 23:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone familiar with the culture of the Albanians would know that my words are not WP:OR. Anyway, here is a WP:RS, Cultural Heritage of East Central Europe: A Historical Outline: "Given a growing pressure of the Ottoman Empire, the Albanian Christians sought support in the Italian principalities but it was only under Skanderbeg (Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeu, 1405—1468) that a temporarily successful Albanian principality was formed to resist this pressure. Skanderbeg later became a legendary national hero of the Albanians. He raised the red flag with a double-headed black eagle, a national symbol until this day2."

But above all, this is a template, and the image to use for it needs no citaton, as it should be agreed among editors, choosing the most representative symbol for the Albanians. Between the File:Flag of Albania.svg, File:Flag of Dardania.svg (of the Albanians of Kosovo), File:Flag of the Republic Ilirida.svg (of the Albanians of North Macedonia), File:Flag of Piana degli Albanesi.svg (of the Albanians of Sicily), etc., all derived from Skanderbeg's flag, the original is the most representative one as already pointed out by other editors. – Βατο (talk) 15:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

agree with @Βατο, it's most representative of the ethnic group as opposed to citizens of the country. the flag of the republic of albania was changed very recently Aferditaa (talk) 13:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock:Brikcity.[reply]

This is silly and absurd. Albanians use the flag of Albania as a national symbol, even if it was standardised two decades ago. One hardly if at all sees this "mediaeval" variant of the Albanian flag flown anywhere in a modern context, not by states, not at sporting matches by people etc. Its got a star which the post-communist Albanian state removed (the irony is the communist variant of the Albanian flag with the communist star was closer to the medieval banner). Its not a thing. We should revert back to the previous image of the flag. Or we should not have a flag at all. If there is no responses in coming days i will place back the previous contemporary flag, or remove it completely.Resnjari (talk) 10:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored the previous image, as it appears it was the work of a disruptive sock account. Frankly proposed changes of this sort should be brought here first as it has wide-ranging effects on Albanian topics and consensus would need to be achieved with proper sourced material outlining the case before moving forward. If agreement can't be reached, no image would also be ok.Resnjari (talk) 10:54, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]