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Template:Did you know nominations/William Francis (civil engineer)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 12:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

William Francis (civil engineer)

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Created/expanded by Dumelow (talk). Self nom at 21:51, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Currently reviewing this nomination, though one query does spring to mind immediately. A source should really be provided for the 'Sir' used in both the article and the hook, and a more interesting hook would be nice. If the 'Sir' is from a knighthood (i.e. not a hereditary baronet, for example), then saying what he was knighted for might be a better hook. Also, is his full name "H. W. A. Francis"? That's not clear from the article at the moment (not required for DYK, but clearing that up would be nice). Carcharoth (talk) 23:08, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
    OK, I've now looked him up in Who's Who (which can usually be accessed by anyone with a UK library subscription), and from that we can get the following additional information:
    • Full name is (Horace) William (Alexander) Francis
    • Knighted in 1989, CBE in 1976
    • Born 31 August 1926 (this contradicted what was in the article, until I removed it)
    • Name of parents and wife, year of marriage and details of children also in the Who's Who entry
    • Director of the British Railways Board between 1994 and 1997 (dates not in article)
    • Year of his fellowships and honorary degrees also in the Who's Who entry
      Citation is: 'FRANCIS, Sir (Horace) William (Alexander)', Who's Who 2013, A & C Black, an imprint of Bloomsbury Publishing plc, 2013; online edn, Oxford University Press, Dec 2012; online edn, Nov 2012 accessed 31 Dec 2012.
    Suggest creating redirects from H. W. A. Francis and Horace William Alexander Francis and adding birth year category (once it is clear which source is giving the correct birth year). I can add the information and citations from Who's Who if you want. None of these are strict requirements for DYK, but this basic sourcing of name and birth details is what should be expected of biographies of living people. As I said before, would also suggest looking up what he was knighted for (search online at the website of The London Gazette) and doing a hook based on that. Other than that, the article looks OK, with a few minor quibbles (the bit about a golfing trophy doesn't seem necessary). Am now going to review for the basic DYK requirements (with apologies for going off-track a bit there). Carcharoth (talk) 01:02, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • The article (this version) was moved from user space to article space on 23 December 2012 (so it is new enough). The changes since the nomination are here. The possibly incorrect birth year was added by an IP editor with this edit. I've reverted that until we know what the right birth year is. The article at the time of nomination was around 2200 characters, which is long enough. Carcharoth (talk) 01:40, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Have now checked the sources used, and all checks out. Some of the wording used is similar to the sources, but that is unavoidable here where the sources are mostly a listing of his career and achievements. Article is balanced enough, though there is room for expansion obviously, both on what I provided above and some other information that can be found, but that can be added as needed (some of the information pointed out above, specifically the name and birth date, should be added before the nomination is passed). First hook is OK, second hook is not interesting enough and the source said "some 30 years" back in 2008, what the situation is now in 2012 is not clear (i.e. more precise to say that he has/had provided advice for some 30 years prior to 2008). But I suggest doing a new hook based on what he was knighted for. Review now done, will ping the nominator on their talk page for some follow up here. Carcharoth (talk) 02:10, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Hello Carcharoth, thanks for your in-depth review of this article. I have expanded it with information you have provided from Who's Who above and that from the Gazette for his knighthood (I was having trouble locating him before as I didn't have his full name, thanks for that) and also service in the rather unusual Engineer and Railway Staff Corps. There was no mention of what he was knighted for unfortunately, so I think we shall have to stay with the first hook. We could possibly elaborate on it and mention that he spent 25 years with the company (which is quite unusual for board members nowdays, I think) Let me know what you think - Dumelow (talk) 09:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Doh, caught out again! Looks like the army rewrote that leaflet since I last used it. I have resourced it to their website and updated the E&RSC article as well. Thanks - Dumelow (talk) 15:34, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • All looks good to go now. Carcharoth (talk) 15:04, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
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