Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Eyre Macklin

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 10:41, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Thomas Eyre Macklin

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Thomas Eyre Macklin

... that artist Thomas Eyre Macklin (pictured) spent three months on a drawing for entrance to the Royal Academy, lost it, drew another in two weeks with one hour to spare, and was accepted? Source: "Literature, art and the drama", Newcastle Chronicle, 15 May 1891, p.8. "He had spent some three months on a special drawing to be submitted to the examiners of the Academy, but it mysteriously disappeared, and apparently Mr Macklin's chance of admission that year was hopeless. Rather than spend valuable time in what appeared to be unavailing search, he resolutely set to work, and after labouring at the same subject for fourteen days, he finished it with one hour to spare ... this was the drawing that secured his admission".

"Dirty Angel" by T. E. Macklin

ALT1 ... ~~that the bronze statue atop Thomas Eyre Macklin's 24 m tall (79 ft) 1907 South African War Memorial in Newcastle (pictured) became known as the "Dirty Angel"?~~
ALT2 ... that the bronze statue atop Thomas Eyre Macklin's 1907 South African War Memorial in Newcastle (pictured) became known as the "Dirty Angel"?
- Reviewed: Paul Bargehr
- Comment: (1) Edwardx is the creator, Storye book is the nominator and 5x expander. Please credit both. (2) My first edit on the article was on 10 May 2022, when the 5x expansion was started. The expansion is now complete, ~~numbers-wise, but there is still some work to be done on it. I shall update this comment and possibly improve the hook when this nom is ready for review (I am just grabbing the date for now).~~

5x expanded by Storye book (talk) and Edwardx (talk). Nominated by Storye book (talk) at 21:02, 15 May 2022 (UTC). Thank you, Edwardx for ALT1. Here is an image for ALT1, which I prefer to ALT0. I picked this one because this view is more arresting and less static that the other images of it on Commons - but (anyone) please replace it if necessary. Storye book (talk) 15:43, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I formatted the image, and will review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:48, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Substantial bio, on pplenty of good-looking sources, subscription sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I like ALT1 better, as mentioning and showing a substantial work. The other image, is that even a sketch he did himself? I can't tell (and rather doubt) by the description. In ALT1, I believe we don't need the measurements as long as it's pictured, which would make it flow better. I gave "Dirty Angel" quotation marks, as not the real title. - Some ideas for the article (not needed for approval): I think the lead has too much detail about his family and too little about why his major works are on the other "end" of the globe. I don't like the long list of works which have no articles in the infobox. The galleries could be a tad larger. - I can't approve as long as there's a tag on the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda Arendt for kindly reviewing this. Unfortunately, you must have missed my comment above - I have bolded it now, in the hope that others will not miss it. I have found another set of good sources that I am in the process of using, but they may affect the existing information, so that is one reason why the article is not finished. Another reason is that I cannot rearrange and adjust content until we have all the available information, and then we can see how it all fits together, and create a logical narrative.

~~For your information, the woodcut sketch of Macklin is anonymous, although he did do engravings. It's the only identification picture that we have, of him.~~

There are only two lines in the lead about ancestors. These are important, because although we cannot say in the article (no citation for something that isn't there), the birth certificates for Macklin, his father, his mother and his wife are missing. This is unusual. It has led to most secondary and tertiary records of him copying each other and being downright wrong (the census, Maklin's death certificate, and numerous news reports prove them wrong - he was born in 1863, not 1867). The uncited reason for this, which I cannot put in the article for obvious reasons, is that his family probably hid their Irish birth and pretended to have been born in Newcastle due to the racism against the 1840s Irish refugees in the 19th century. Macklin relied on being seen as a "local" Newcastle artist to join that group and get work, and to get reviews in the papers. I only have access to England and Wales birth certificates, so I cannot track the Macklins down in Northern Ireland, or Alys's death which was probably in Paris. Anyway, many Irish birth certificates were destroyed during the Troubles. So although we cannot explain why they have no birth certificates, we can at least say what we can prove as facts - that his family had Irish names and they said they were born in Newcastle. There is another anomaly: I have not yet found any evidence that Macklin was conscripted for World War II or served in it in any way. Being Irish-born may explain that, but we don't know (so it's not in the article).

~~But I still have more sources to consult before I can remove the construction tag, so we may find some answers.~~

Re the "other side of the world" - as far as I can work out (no citation for that), Macklin only had one commission for a war memorial in New Zealand, and he sent the designs and sculptures by ship. We have no evidence that he ever went there. He just entered the design competition by post, had the sculptures cast in Paris, and posted them. But I can't say that without a citation.

~~I'll put a message on this template when I've completed the article. I hope it will be soon.~~ Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt:. I hope you had a restful weekend. The article is now ready for review. Regarding your preliminary review comments:

The portrait of Macklin has now been replaced by a photo (I found one at last - whoopee!).
The measurements have been removed from the hook in ALT2.
I have explained above, why Macklin's Irish ancestry is mentioned in the lead, no need for repetition here.
There is now a note in the article to explain that there is no evidence that Macklin ever travelled to New Zealand, and that he presumably shipped the design and the bronzes there.
I have removed mention of specific works from the infobox, and replaced them with general terms for the types of work that he did.
The construction tags have been removed from the article.
I have added a few items to some of the galleries. Sadly, we have a contingent on WP, who say they don't like images and/or don't like galleries, so I have tried not to include too many images, so as not to provoke them.

I hope that's OK now. Please let me know if there are any remaining problems. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the update. Good to have a photo, but it's not top quality, so for the Main page purpose I'd prefer the one of his work. Both images are licensed. I never suggested that he was in NZ, but his works, and some hint at that he was English might make that more surprising. For now, two hooks are approved, and I prefer the ALT. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 23 May 2022 (UTC)