Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Yuanhua

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:08, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
There has been no response to the ping here on June 18, or to talk-page ping from a month ago and a last call there in late July. Marking for closure as unsuccessful.

Sun Yuanhua

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• Article history

)

Sun Yuanhua's 1632 diagrams illustrating simple star fort designs

• ... that Ignatius Sun advocated for Ming China's adoption of "red-barbarian cannon" and fortifications to defend itself from the Manchu invasion that produced the Qing Dynasty?
  • ALT1:... that the Christian governor Ignatius Sun’s clemency towards two mutinous subordinates prompted the Ming to execute him?
  • ALT2:... that, of all Europe's military developments during the Renaissance, the Chinese military theorist Ignatius Sun was most impressed by the angled bastions of its star forts?
  • ALT3:... that Portuguese artillerists defended Dengzhou, China, to the death in 1632 but its Chinese governor Ignatius Sun not only surrendered but was freed by his captors for his earlier kindnesses?
  • ALT4:... that the Chinese military theorist Sun Yuanhua was a protégé of Matteo Ricci's convert and friend Paul Xu, who instructed him on the military applications of trigonometry?
  • ALT5:... that Ignatius Sun, the Christian governor of northern Shandong, played a part in the introduction of western science, technology, and culture into Joseon Korea?
  • ALT6:... that the Jiading estate of Chinese military theorist Sun Yuanhua was the site of an important meeting of Jesuit missionaries and converts dealing with the China rites controversy?
  • ALT7:... that Chinese scholar Ignatius Sun failed his imperial exam but nonetheless attracted support from the highest levels of government for his detailed and well-reasoned defense proposals?
  • ALT8:... that Sun Yuanhua’s niece married the grandson of his mentor Xu Guangqi?

• Reviewed: Will do Lazy Afternoon
• Comment: @Reviewers: Don't worry. You only need to review the hook(s) most interesting to you.

Created by LlywelynII (talk). Self-nominated at 04:45, 25 May 2017 (UTC).

• ALT1 looks like the best of these. I shortened it slightly, to focus on the main point. —Patrug (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

• Undone. The length is fine and the Christianity, besides being the main focus of Western treatment of Sun, is also the main point of that particular hook. If that's confusing, you might need to read up on it. Further, people generally expect medieval China to be somewhat inhumane/strict in their justice. Their "ministry of justice" was the Ministry of Punishments. The hooky part of ALT1 is that Christian converts under the Ming even included provincial governors.
  
  As always, your input is welcome but it's up to the reviewer to choose the hook most interesting to him or her. Additionally, if you're not very well informed on the topic at hand (which seems to be the case in several of the hooks I've noticed you 'correcting' recently), you really should limit your edits to necessary ones: correcting misinformation; correcting misspellings and grammatical mistakes; avoiding BLP violations; and bringing the word count under 200 characters. As far as preferences, the creators', reviewers', and promoters' all outrank random passers'-by, and the creators already expressed their preference by writing the hook the way they did. — LlywelynII 23:55, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

• You can spare me the lecture. If you think about it for a moment, you'll realize that what's interesting for the general readership of the Main Page is not at all the same as what's important for experts on the topic, or for the article itself (which I'm certainly not touching). Fortunately, most reviewers realize the difference, and most hook creators eventually realize they can improve with edits & feedback from the non-expert readers they're supposedly trying to attract. Live & learn... Good luck. Patrug (talk) 02:24, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

• Thanks! =) And sorry that your misinformation and poor hook formatting meant that I couldn't spare you a paragraph of what you took as a 'lecture'. If you do have any improvements, they are welcome and let us know. Still better, find something you're interested in and throw in a review. — LlywelynII 05:24, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

• Decent article, well written and interesting. New enough, long enough. Free of obvious copyvios. Appropriately cited to reliable sourced. Structure is a little odd; the "life" section is monstrously long, and could use some form of division. Also some terms that are likely to be unknown to outsiders should be linked or explained (this is not a DYK requirement, but would be very helpful). I've struck a few of the hooks as not being mentioned directly in the article; please do not unstrike them before making certain that the article supports them. The others seem okay: AGF on sources I cannot access. QPQ complete. Image is public domain, but I don't think it's a good idea to use it: it does not show up well at a small size, and is of an item that is difficult to work into a hook in any case. Is there a particular reason the hooks all link to a redirect? Otherwise, the links should all be changed. Vanamonde (talk) 17:56, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

• There has been no response to the to talk-page ping from over a month ago and a last call there in late July. Marking for closure as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:37, 11 August 2017 (UTC)