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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 15:17, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Soviet Strike

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Created/expanded by Bridies (talk). Self nom at 13:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

  • Just one outstanding issue - the final line of Development (relating to Nuclear Strike) needs a citation. Miyagawa (talk) 22:12, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I would say that is an uncontroversial fact and not likely to be challenged; the Nuclear Strike article has many sources if someone wanted to add one. bridies (talk) 01:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
  • For example: GameSpot, IGN, Edge, GameFan and Next Generation (all cited in the Nuclear Strike article) all give that info; I'd say it's common knowledge and not necessary if even proper to attribute it to a particular source. bridies (talk) 10:20, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

My take:

The hook must include Sega Saturn. --George Ho (talk) 05:07, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Prefer just "...first released on PlayStation"; although I'm not particularly opposed to noting the Saturn version, I just think it's cumbersome and redundant. It was developed for the PS and the Saturn version was a port released several months later. The point is to note it was intended for the 3DO and released for something other than that. bridies (talk) 06:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
There's no need for the Saturn to be included if it stops the article from being suitably catchy. However, I think that the Alt2-a flows better as a sentence out of the two alt2 options - however I think both the original hooks also work. Anyway, the article meets creation and size requirements and is good to go for DYK. Miyagawa (talk) 18:27, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Ultimately, none of these hooks have inline source citations for all key facts at the end of the sentences they're in, or the key facts simply do not appear. I don't see a citation for "ill-fated 3DO console", or even a direct citation that the game was a PlayStation one. It's not common knowledge, except perhaps among gamers: DYK is for people who don't know gaming, or sports, or whatever. (I agree with Miyagawa that, contra George Ho, the Sega Saturn does not need to appear. In fact, it dilutes the hook, and was released the following year to boot.) Finally, while Boris Yeltsin's name does appear in the article, there is nothing to connect him and the Moscow Kremlin, and that connection needs to be made explicitly and cited that way in the article for Alt1 to be usable. (I think it's odd to have a parenthetical remark be the basis of a hook.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
The expression "declining viability of the 3DO" (which I've now changed to "end of the 3DO's viability"; the source calls the console "abandoned") is used in the article and is sourced: everything between cites 5 and 6 (a couple of sentences or so) comes from reference 6. I've now added another cite to number 6 at the end of the relevant sentence (this also takes care of there not being a cite putting it on the PlayStation). I've no problem with "ill-fated" being changed to "unsuccessful" or "abandoned" or whatever if need be. Regarding Yeltsin, I guess just "rescuing Boris Yeltsin" and not mentioning the Kremlin should be fine. I put the mention of Yeltsin in brackets to conveniently group it with other rescue missions (the source says "even saving Boris Yeltsin", not in parenthesis). I don't think context or prominence in the article should matter; I just felt this was perhaps the most amusing factoid for "people who don't know gaming, or sports, or whatever". For the record, personally I prefer the Alt hook about Yeltsin, I just worried it would be rejected for being about a fictional aspect (to which I would tentatively counter that the reference to a real world figure makes it "involve the real world in some way"; as well as that it ties into the Soviet theme of the subject). bridies (talk) 13:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Perhaps with slightly stronger grounding in reality, the Yeltsin hook can fly. How's this:
Sounds good to me. bridies (talk) 01:40, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Isn't this good to go, with either the original or last alt hook? It's already been green ticked and I addressed the other objections. bridies (talk) 12:30, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Nope. The green tick was canceled out for good reason, and once canceled a new review is needed for a new tick. In particular, ALT3 needs to be approved by an independent reviewer (I can't approve my own version of the hook); that person can also specifically approve other hooks based on your subsequent changes. I've got feelers out, and am still hoping someone will stop by soon. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:45, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
But "your" version is essentially the same (alt) hook that I proposed, and Miyagawa vetted; it just has some very common knowledge qualifiers which have no bearing on the article content one way or another. And if a DKY volunteer (or whatever they're called) sees fit, the original hook should be good to go also. The only objection was that I duplicate the same cite for consecutive sentences, which I did. I don't mean to bitch, but I really don't see why this is being (and has been) held up for weeks on end over trivialities. The citation placement (as with the info on the sequel and the fact it was released on PS) wouldn't have been an issue at GAN or FAC (indeed, if I were reviewing this in either of those venues, I'd have it removed for redundancy). DKY has very specific requirements for citation placement, fair enough, but I addressed that and don't see why we need yet another reviewer to verify I copy pasted a citation to the end of another sentence (or to verify that Yeltsin really was the President of Russia; or whatever it is that's supposedly holding that up, Miyagawa already approved it, fundamentally); it should be enough, as with FAC, for me to say I fixed it and for the objector to strike his oppose (especially when whoever promotes it has to give a once over nevertheless). bridies (talk) 06:37, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Going with ALT3 hook, verified AGF offline print source. Article ready, 5x expansion confirmed by DYKcheck! Rcej (Robert) – talk 10:30, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
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