Template:Did you know nominations/Sandra Melhem
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Amakuru (talk) 11:43, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
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Sandra Melhem
- ... that in 2015, gay rights activist Sandra Melhem hosted the first drag show in Beirut? Source:
- Aagaard, Thomas (2022-04-05). "For fem år siden forelskede jeg mig i Beiruts første drag queen. Jeg vendte tilbage og så en bevægelse genrejse sig" [Five years ago, I fell in love with Beirut's first drag queen. I returned and saw a movement recover]. Zetland (in Danish). Archived from the original on 2022-04-05. Retrieved 2022-05-31.
- Olea, Andrea (2019-06-07). "Beyrouth : Comment les clubs des élites bourgeoises se sont ouverts à un public populaire et diversifié" [Beirut: How the clubs of the bourgeois elites opened to a popular and diverse public]. Trax Magazine (in French). Archived from the original on 2021-02-28. Retrieved 2022-05-31.
Created by Elias Ziade (talk). Self-nominated at 18:52, 31 May 2022 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: 
- Not done
Overall: 
Interesting hook and an interesting article. Source supports the statement. Good to go! Just noticed that you have not done a QPQ. Please do so. — Golden call me maybe? 21:56, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Golden: I donated a qpq for this one. BuySomeApples (talk) 01:57, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! Passing. — Golden call me maybe? 05:34, 11 June 2022 (UTC)- Thank you both sooooo much, I am so overwhelmed that I forgot about this one :( el.ziade (talkallam) 17:55, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Elias ZiadeGolden The article says, "Beirut's first drag show in 2015." which isn't the same thing as all of Lebanon. SL93 (talk) 18:40, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Article has been pulled per WP:ERRORS discussion: [1] Please check out and fix issues with the hook in a fresh review. Ping @Elias Ziade, Golden, and SL93: —Kusma (talk) 10:06, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- That was fast! So it was claimed here that drag shows were held before Evita Kedavra and Anya Kneez made their debut; can anyone please provide a source to support this claim? Drags shows as defined in the western context were never held in Lebanon before. Maybe you should have given me more time to challenge this claim, and the sources are all there.el.ziade (talkallam) 17:15, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- The source was found and mentioned by Fram in the discussion I linked above (where I also query another statement). By pulling the nom, I have made resolving this something that is not time critical. There is now time to get it right and then the hook can be promoted again. —Kusma (talk) 17:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- theleekycauldron So the sources didn't back up the hook... SL93 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for your patience. I gave contacted three second generation drag artists, one of which is from the House of Kedavra to verify the information and to ask them to provide me with reference material should they have any. To the best of my knowledge, cross dressing males in comedy programs did not identify as drag queens, and the concept of drag entertainment in its current format was not present before the mid 2010s. I will add this detail, if confirmed by local drag artists, and references, in order to give a better picture of the local drag scene and it’s development. And actually this motivates me to delve deeper and start an article about the history of drag in Lebanon.el.ziade (talkallam) 06:35, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- Sounds like there may be more interesting content in this direction! In the meantime, do you have a different idea for a hook that doesn't involve "first drag show"? Firsts are a bit dangerous because sources like to wrongly claim them. —Kusma (talk) 07:54, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- I understand your concern, and I do not want to give undue credit here or elsewhere. I just got a reply from two of the most active drag artists, and their narrative is consistent with what I said earlier. Before the mid 2010s, the concept, and drag terminology was foreign to the Lebanese environment, and drag shows, as generally defined, did not exist. A few exceptions existed prior to the mid 2010s, but the cross-dressing artists did not identify as drag artists. A major hurdle is the lack of documentation and scholarly work in this area, and of the cited material, only one journalist highlighted the sociopolitical issues related to cross-dressing and drag entertainment in Lebanon. Most of the other articles merely brush the surface. I am going to tone down passages that may be contested, and get back to you with a new hook if I can find something else that might be interesting. In the meanwhile, I will also review the sources I cited because I am very sure that the statements in this article are well-sourced, but possibly mis-arranged. el.ziade (talkallam) 10:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Elias Ziade: The "Queer Beirut" book mentioned by Fram at ERRORS is available at ProQuest: [2]. I can confirm that Chapter 4, "Queer Performances and the Politics of Place: The Art of Drag and the Routine of Sectarianism" talks about drag shows in Rue Monnot before 2015. If you have no access through your institution (WP:TWL only has reviews of the book, not the book itself) you can send me a wikimail and I can send you a PDF of this chapter. We will need a new hook. —Kusma (talk) 10:59, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Kusma:, @Fram: thank you for the throwback! I got ahold of the thesis, it brought back very vivid memories of post-war Beirut. Merabet's chapter does not contradict the information in the article. I'll explain: (1) It is not claimed that there weren't individuals who identified as drag queens before 2015. (2) Concerning shows, Bassem Feghali, a cross-dressing comedian of the late 90s and who was still active until recently, did not identify as a drag queen, rather as a comedian and celebrity impersonator. Feghali however is undoubtably a TV and theater phenomenon, a queer icon, and an inspiration for individuals who would give drag shows its own stage (Kedavra in Agaard, 2022) Despite being touted as a reltively liberal country, Lebanese society still largely rejects LGBT and queer individuals and culture. Feghali's rise to mainstreem stardom in comedy would not have been possible had he identified as a queer individual or a drag queen. (3) Merabet's Ziad, the “Queen from Sassine” was an “underground queen” who performed in privately held events, bachelorette parties, and as an intermission between 2 club musical acts. Ziad's segments do not qualify as a “Drag show” where people actually pay to watch a drag artist(s) performance exclusively. Drag shows, among other queer manifestations are a form of political defiance and resistance against an unwelcoming environment and oppressrive authorities. Comedy shows featuring cross-dressing males aren't, and the readers should know this nurance which I believe shuold be elaborated in depth in a separate article. It became very clear to me, and to the people I have contacted today, how important it is to keep a record of Lebanese drag and cross-dressing history. I will actively pursue this with local LGBT-oriented organizations in Lebanon. Another note: Just yesterday Gay pride events were cancelled by the interior minister, pressured by religious authorities. That same afternoon, a radical christian "Soliders of the cross" group destroyed a rainbow covered billboard and protested against the pride events. Gay-rights activism and breakthroughs in middle eastern countries deserve a spotlight. Giving someone undue credit is not acceptable, so is attributing current successes to people who preferred to stay in the closet to maintain profit. Please let me know if this resolves the above and if you still believe I should change the hook. el.ziade (talkallam) 22:18, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Elias Ziade: The discussion on p. 94–95 of Merabet's work doesn't contradict the hook as it is about drag performances north of Jounieh, about 20km from Beirut. But p. 97 talks about Ramzi, who "continued to perform alone whenever he was hired for a gig at any nightclub on Rue Monot or elsewhere." and then clearly describes a "[show] at clubs considered trendy at the time" that is later called a "drag performance". I find it difficult not to see this as saying there were drag shows in Beirut before 2015, no matter what Aagaard says (this btw is the BBC article he refers to, where someone says in 2018 "Three years ago, the scene hardly existed" which is in line with everything the article says about Melhem except that there was absolutely no drag show before 2015). Melhem seems to be an interesting person, and worthy of the attention of a DYK spot, but I find it difficult to follow your argument that all the pre-2015 drag performances were not drag shows. The Ola article has Melhem as "one of the principal promoters of drag culture in Lebanon". I'm terrible at writing hooks, but I think
- ... that Sandra Melhem, one of the foremost promoters of drag culture in Beirut, won a prize for her humanitarian work after the 2020 Beirut explosion?
- is covered by the sources. I was saddened to learn that the explosion had such a devastating impact on the local gay community; perhaps that could be included as well, maybe...
- ... that drag show organiser Sandra Melhem organized relief for queer people after the 2020 Beirut explosion destroyed a gay-friendly neighbourhood?
- I apologise if I did not understand the nuanced differences between a drag show and a drag performance, but the hook should be factually accurate and not depend on a particular interpretation of the word "drag show". Can you please make up a different hook that has more convincing sources than Aagaard's personal observation? —Kusma (talk) 23:34, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- sure el.ziade (talkallam) 23:50, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hello everyone please check the below hook and let me know if this one will do.
- ALT1: ... that Lebanese LGBT rights activist Sandra Melhem and her associates founded the gay-friendly EGO Beirut club without any previous experience in club management? Source: Olea 2019el.ziade (talkallam) 13:43, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Kusma: I am sorry I must have missed your hook proposals which I really appreciate. I would rephrase them thus and leave it to you and the other reviewers to choose from:
- ALT2: that Lebanese LGBT rights activist Sandra Melhem, one of the foremost promoters of drag culture in Beirut, was awarded for her humanitarian relief work after the 2020 Beirut explosion?Source: Ville de Paris
- ALT3: ... that Lebanese LGBT activist and entrepreneur Sandra Melhem organized relief efforts for queer people after the 2020 Beirut explosion destroyed a gay-friendly neighbourhood? Source: Gough 2020 Gubash 2020mykali mag Hage 2020
- ALT4: that Lebanese LGBT rights activist Sandra Melhem, one of the foremost promoters of drag culture in Lebanon, was awarded for her health promotion work with the vulnerable LGBT community? el.ziade (talkallam) Source: LebMash twitter 14:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hello everyone please check the below hook and let me know if this one will do.
- sure el.ziade (talkallam) 23:50, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Elias Ziade: The discussion on p. 94–95 of Merabet's work doesn't contradict the hook as it is about drag performances north of Jounieh, about 20km from Beirut. But p. 97 talks about Ramzi, who "continued to perform alone whenever he was hired for a gig at any nightclub on Rue Monot or elsewhere." and then clearly describes a "[show] at clubs considered trendy at the time" that is later called a "drag performance". I find it difficult not to see this as saying there were drag shows in Beirut before 2015, no matter what Aagaard says (this btw is the BBC article he refers to, where someone says in 2018 "Three years ago, the scene hardly existed" which is in line with everything the article says about Melhem except that there was absolutely no drag show before 2015). Melhem seems to be an interesting person, and worthy of the attention of a DYK spot, but I find it difficult to follow your argument that all the pre-2015 drag performances were not drag shows. The Ola article has Melhem as "one of the principal promoters of drag culture in Lebanon". I'm terrible at writing hooks, but I think
- @Kusma:, @Fram: thank you for the throwback! I got ahold of the thesis, it brought back very vivid memories of post-war Beirut. Merabet's chapter does not contradict the information in the article. I'll explain: (1) It is not claimed that there weren't individuals who identified as drag queens before 2015. (2) Concerning shows, Bassem Feghali, a cross-dressing comedian of the late 90s and who was still active until recently, did not identify as a drag queen, rather as a comedian and celebrity impersonator. Feghali however is undoubtably a TV and theater phenomenon, a queer icon, and an inspiration for individuals who would give drag shows its own stage (Kedavra in Agaard, 2022) Despite being touted as a reltively liberal country, Lebanese society still largely rejects LGBT and queer individuals and culture. Feghali's rise to mainstreem stardom in comedy would not have been possible had he identified as a queer individual or a drag queen. (3) Merabet's Ziad, the “Queen from Sassine” was an “underground queen” who performed in privately held events, bachelorette parties, and as an intermission between 2 club musical acts. Ziad's segments do not qualify as a “Drag show” where people actually pay to watch a drag artist(s) performance exclusively. Drag shows, among other queer manifestations are a form of political defiance and resistance against an unwelcoming environment and oppressrive authorities. Comedy shows featuring cross-dressing males aren't, and the readers should know this nurance which I believe shuold be elaborated in depth in a separate article. It became very clear to me, and to the people I have contacted today, how important it is to keep a record of Lebanese drag and cross-dressing history. I will actively pursue this with local LGBT-oriented organizations in Lebanon. Another note: Just yesterday Gay pride events were cancelled by the interior minister, pressured by religious authorities. That same afternoon, a radical christian "Soliders of the cross" group destroyed a rainbow covered billboard and protested against the pride events. Gay-rights activism and breakthroughs in middle eastern countries deserve a spotlight. Giving someone undue credit is not acceptable, so is attributing current successes to people who preferred to stay in the closet to maintain profit. Please let me know if this resolves the above and if you still believe I should change the hook. el.ziade (talkallam) 22:18, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Elias Ziade: The "Queer Beirut" book mentioned by Fram at ERRORS is available at ProQuest: [2]. I can confirm that Chapter 4, "Queer Performances and the Politics of Place: The Art of Drag and the Routine of Sectarianism" talks about drag shows in Rue Monnot before 2015. If you have no access through your institution (WP:TWL only has reviews of the book, not the book itself) you can send me a wikimail and I can send you a PDF of this chapter. We will need a new hook. —Kusma (talk) 10:59, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- I understand your concern, and I do not want to give undue credit here or elsewhere. I just got a reply from two of the most active drag artists, and their narrative is consistent with what I said earlier. Before the mid 2010s, the concept, and drag terminology was foreign to the Lebanese environment, and drag shows, as generally defined, did not exist. A few exceptions existed prior to the mid 2010s, but the cross-dressing artists did not identify as drag artists. A major hurdle is the lack of documentation and scholarly work in this area, and of the cited material, only one journalist highlighted the sociopolitical issues related to cross-dressing and drag entertainment in Lebanon. Most of the other articles merely brush the surface. I am going to tone down passages that may be contested, and get back to you with a new hook if I can find something else that might be interesting. In the meanwhile, I will also review the sources I cited because I am very sure that the statements in this article are well-sourced, but possibly mis-arranged. el.ziade (talkallam) 10:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- Sounds like there may be more interesting content in this direction! In the meantime, do you have a different idea for a hook that doesn't involve "first drag show"? Firsts are a bit dangerous because sources like to wrongly claim them. —Kusma (talk) 07:54, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for your patience. I gave contacted three second generation drag artists, one of which is from the House of Kedavra to verify the information and to ask them to provide me with reference material should they have any. To the best of my knowledge, cross dressing males in comedy programs did not identify as drag queens, and the concept of drag entertainment in its current format was not present before the mid 2010s. I will add this detail, if confirmed by local drag artists, and references, in order to give a better picture of the local drag scene and it’s development. And actually this motivates me to delve deeper and start an article about the history of drag in Lebanon.el.ziade (talkallam) 06:35, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
I think the new proposals look better (certainly there's no overstated "first" anymore), but I did suggest some of these so let's involve the previous reviewers/promoters to re-check the new hooks: @Golden, Theleekycauldron, and SL93: —Kusma (talk) 15:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
- I can tick ALTs 1 and 2 – but we'd need an admin to put Melhem into June's last set. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)