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Template:Did you know nominations/PEF Survey of Palestine

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:50, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

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PEF Survey of Palestine

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The PEF Survey of Western Palestine
The PEF Survey of Western Palestine
  • ... that all the Survey of Palestine's (composite map pictured) leaders had roles in later British history: one "want[ed] you", one was too late to save Gordon of Khartoum and two were linked to Jack the Ripper as police chief and suspect? Source: "...the party at various times being commanded by Capt. C.W. Wilson (later Col. Sir Charles); Capt. C. Warren (later General Sir Charles); Lt. C.R. Conder (later Col.); and Lt. H.H. Kitchener (later General Lord Kitchener of Khartoum).”)

Created by Onceinawhile (talk). Self-nominated at 00:40, 5 January 2020 (UTC).

  • A really interesting topic, but it falls rather short of the minimum length criteria. Not only is it shorter than 'at least 1,500 characters of readable prose', the body of the article is really of stub-length. I also note that the article is almost entirely unreferenced as well, including the information proposed for inclusion in the DYK hook. This still has some way to go, but the problems are not unfix-able, so I will give the creator some time to address them. Constantine ✍ 15:55, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: thank you for your comments. I believe these have all been resolved now. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:12, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Onceinawhile: Indeed. Well done on this expansion. You still need to reference Kitchener's presence (as it is in the hook, it needs an explicit citation). And it still isn't quite clear, from the hook and the article, who was too late to save Gordon. Only by clicking through did I find out that it was Charles William Wilson. You need to link him explicitly in the hook, and also in the article (currently he is linked only in the infobox). You also need to link Charles Warren in the article as well.
Upon re-reading, I am also worried that this type of hook, i.e. with material that is actually not in the article, is not permitted. The DYK rules state "The hook fact(s) must be stated in the article", and while the leaders of the expedition are named, the rest of the hook facts aren't. Kitchener is (or should be) well known enough to let this pass, but for the others, perhaps a note (or even a footnote) in the article might help (e.g. "later to become famous as being involved in the Jack the Ripper murders...").
Cheers, Constantine ✍ 09:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: thank you for this. I have added an extra section to the article, which incorporates this information. Best regards, Onceinawhile (talk) 12:47, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Onceinawhile: You still need to explicitly reference the participation of Konder and Kitchener in the text. I've added 'citation needed' tags to the spots, and tweaked the hook a bit to make the connections to the people mentioned more explicit, and reference the map. Constantine ✍ 13:46, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: thank you for this. I have now added the required references. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:51, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Great, good to go then. QPQ done, article is now more than log enough, new enough, well written and referenced. Hook meets criteria; the map is appropriately licensed and used in the article. Constantine ✍ 14:02, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Onceinawhile, Constantine, the hook is unfortunately too long at 209 characters; the absolute ceiling is 200 (and this is excluding the "(composite map pictured)" from the count). Please supply an ALT hook that is shorter. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:47, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset: thanks for pointing this out. See two alternatives below:
*ALT1...that of the four leaders of the Survey of Palestine (composite map pictured) one "want[ed] you", one was too late to save Gordon of Khartoum and two were linked to Jack the Ripper as police chief and suspect?
Onceinawhile (talk) 10:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
I have struck ALT1 as ALT2 seems smoother. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:21, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset: sorry, I somehow missed that. @Onceinawhile: ALT2 with 186 chars (excluding the image note) looks fine to me. Constantine ✍ 11:04, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Constantine, not a problem. Can I ask you to please add a new tick below to formalize your approval? The bot and promoters always go by the bottom icon, and at the moment it's my slash. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:03, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Sure, good to go! Constantine ✍ 07:51, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
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