Template:Did you know nominations/Osa Maliki
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 22:05, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
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Osa Maliki
... that former Communist Party of Indonesia member Osa Maliki later followed an anti-communist policy at the Indonesian National Party?Source for PKI membership: "Anggota PKI. Pernah dihukum pendjara 4 tahun 2 bulan" - "PKI member, imprisoned for 4 years and 2 months" (p76); Source for anti-communist (or anti-PKI) policy: "...like-minded men as Hardi and Osa Maliki, who had felt it necessary to phrase their opposition to the PKI..." (p188)
- Reviewed: Eifuku
Moved to mainspace by Juxlos (talk). Self-nominated at 09:59, 15 July 2021 (UTC).
- Length, date, sourcing, qpq checks out. However, I find that the wording of the hook doesn't catch the essence here. I'd suggest ALT1: "... that Osa Maliki, a former Communist Party of Indonesia member, cooperated with army commander and religious groups in an anti-communist purge inside the Indonesian National Party?" --Soman (talk) 18:30, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
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New reviewer needed to complete the review including checking proposed ALT1 hook by first reviewer (original hook has been struck). BlueMoonset (talk) 16:17, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
@Juxlos and Soman: Hmmm.. the hook depends of him being a member of the communist party (but the ref won't load) and anti-communist moves which are in the (very long) referenced document (I think) but I cannot (quickly) see where it says anything like "cooperated with army commander and religious groups in an anti-communist purge" in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victuallers (talk • contribs)
- @Victuallers: @Soman: Maybe use the original “anti-communist policy” instead? Juxlos (talk) 03:42, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'm bowing out (or at least I did some time ago). I cannot equate the PKI with communism and I don't know why Maliki objected to the PKI (it may be because they were communist). Too complex. I cannot check the first ref as its in Indonesian. Victuallers (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
- The wording in the article is "By mid-October, army commanders and religious groups have backed and cooperated with Osa's faction in eliminating supposed pro-PKI elements from PNI". I'd say that is very close to ALT1. --Soman (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Soman: would you say it's acceptable? If so, it's best to just push it into DYKA. Juxlos (talk) 04:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't object to ALT1, I presented it. The objection came from other editors. I'd say that the distinction communism/PKI is secondary, in contemporary Indonesian context anti-communist/anti-PKI is basically the same (with the possible exception for Murba Party, but that's a more marginal phenomenon). --Soman (talk) 14:30, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Soman: would you say it's acceptable? If so, it's best to just push it into DYKA. Juxlos (talk) 04:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- The wording in the article is "By mid-October, army commanders and religious groups have backed and cooperated with Osa's faction in eliminating supposed pro-PKI elements from PNI". I'd say that is very close to ALT1. --Soman (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
new reviewer needed to check ALT1 and finish the review. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 01:51, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
I think the objections raised by Soman invalidate the original hook, and the objections raised by Victuallers invalidate the alt hook. The issue here is that both hooks have analyzed the sources being used (perhaps accurately) with what could be perceived as an original analysis or synthesis of the sources. So, we need a usable hook that uses the language found in the sources and not something that extends beyond the language of the sources (i.e. original synthesis/ analysis). Given that this nomination has languished here since July for this very reason, I am putting a time clock of 72 hours to respond with a usable hook or I will recommend that we reject the nomination. I would suggest trying to craft a hook from a single source which can be easily verified to that source that doesn't require a complex analysis to verify.4meter4 (talk) 19:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- I suggest ALT2: "...that Osa Maliki opposed the introduction of the Guided Democracy, and as a result was removed from his position?" Source: Within PNI, however, as Osa was a supporter of the previous parliamentary system abolished and replaced by the new Guided Democracy, he was removed from his position as second chairman of PNI along with first chairman Hardi by Ali Sastroamidjojo. YttriumShrew (talk) 00:05, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
As per Soman, length, date, sourcing (foreign-language sources accepted in good faith), and QPQ checks out. Thanks to an ALT2 proposed by YttriumShrew, this looks good to go. Please note that I am a new reviewer, and would like a second opinion on this. Thanks, Heythereimaguy (talk) 20:54, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
