Template:Did you know nominations/Minerva Armored Car

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Esemono (talk) 14:02, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Minerva Armored Car

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... that Lieutenant Charles Henkart, creator of the Belgian Minerva Armored Car (pictured), one of the first armoured cars in WWI, was ambushed by the Germans and killed in one of his cars?

Reviewed: Wallace Chan

Created/expanded by Esemono (talk). Self nominated at 08:30, 5 December 2014 (UTC).

Hook is interesting and length is fine. Hook is cited to offline source, so good faith is assumed. However:
- Article is long enough now and has been expanded five times by the nominator, but a substantial part of the article, the first two sections, is about armoured cars generally with only one sentence on the Minerva. The two general sections are longer than the third section and the article would not meet the 5x expansion limit requirement if they were omitted.
- It would be useful to know when and where Lieutenant Henkart was killed as this is not given in the article. It would also be useful to know when the armoured car was first manufactured. At the moment, the article states just that Henkart arranged the conversion in 1914 and that they were in use by August 1914. It would also be interesting to know where construction continued after Antwerp was captured by the German Army in October 1914 and how many of the armoured cars were built?
- The source and copyright status of the image is unclear. The Wikimedia Commons page assumes that it was published more than 70 years ago (which may be true), but gives no proof of publication before 1944, the source being a Flickr page.--DavidCane (talk) 23:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Would love to add that information but couldn't find it anywhere. Although I was able to find when he died. Can this pass without that info? -- Esemono (talk) 23:07, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- It's an improvement that we have a date for his death, but I think we still have a problem with the expansion and the image. Second opinion anyone?--DavidCane (talk) 01:17, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

While the article pre-expansion was 512 prose characters, which would normally require a minimum of 2560 prose characters to qualify under a 5x expansion, the new text comes primarily from the Armored car (military) article; indeed, when I use Duplication detector, it shows phrases and sentences copying at least 1323 characters from that article. (These are also not properly attributed per WP:COPYWITHIN, and must be, but that's a side issue.) With 1323 characters copied, per WP:DYKSG#A5, they must be 5x expanded, which puts the required expansion of the article up to 6615. With 3192 prose characters at present, I can't see how that is feasible. I also agree with DavidCane that the amount of prose on the armored car in general is disproportionate to that on the Minerva, and is an issue for DYK. I'd want to check with Crisco 1492 on whether the image is adequately licensed for use at DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Image is not sufficiently free; there is no evidence that it was published at a time that would make it public domain in the US. Also, I agree with Blue about the copyvio: it needs to be removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:21, 2 January 2015 (UTC)