Template:Did you know nominations/Mick Moloney

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 21:37, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Mick Moloney

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Mick Moloney

~~... that Mick Moloney (pictured) was a social worker in London before establishing the Green Fields of America?~~ Source: The New York Times
- Reviewed: The Massachusetts Gazette
- Comment: Eligible per Rule 1d, because it is only appeared in the "Recent Deaths" section of ITN and not as a bold link.

5x expanded by Bloom6132 (talk). Self-nominated at 14:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC).

This is more of a comment than a review for now, but perhaps something more can be said about Moloney here? The hook is somewhat on the pedestrian side of things given that the connection between "social worker" and "founding a band" isn't clear here. Maybe either a hook about his father being an air traffic controller or the Green Fields being a band that plays Irish music could add interest? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Disagree. The hook should be focused the subject himself, not his family members/what they did. And adding more details to the hook will make it less interesting. I think Moloney bridging two distinct fields transcontinentally makes for a far more interesting hook than what could be said using the suggestions above. Full review needed. —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:15, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

The article meets requirements, the hook facts are cited inline and verified. A QPQ has been done. Earwigs detects significant overlap with this source, so that needs to be resolved before approval. I disagree with the above statement: as far as I can tell, the transcontinental thing is not obvious at first glance and unless additional details are added the reader won't get why him establishing the band is so important. That's not to say the hook fact itself is unsalvageable. It's more of the hook as currently written is rather pedestrian, but it can still be improved to become a decent hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:31, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
I was discussing the nomination with Sammi Brie over on Discord and she said that she had a suggestion for an alternate hook. I'll let her propose it here and I'm asking if you'd be fine with it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that Mick Moloney (pictured) helped Cherish the Ladies in traditional Irish music? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

@Bloom6132: Still with us? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Overlap with LoC source was addressed back on August 6 (though such overlap may actually be permissible since that source is a work of the U.S. government). Whatever overlap remains are mostly proper names that fall under WP:LIMITED. —Bloom6132 (talk) 03:08, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

@Bloom6132: For reasons I've elaborated on above I've struck ALT0. Are you okay with ALT1? If not, some variant of ALT0 could probably be workshopped further but the original hook is unsuitable. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:10, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I am fine with ALT1. I am, however, not fine with you striking ALT0, as it satisfies WP:DYKHOOK (i.e. sourced, neutral, not unduly negative, etc.). Requesting a second look at both ALT0 and ALT1 from an uninvolved editor (who can also confirmed that any WP:CLOP has been removed). —Bloom6132 (talk) 07:36, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I frankly do not think that ALT0 meets the "interesting to a broad audience" criterion here. And "interesting to a broad audience" is also a part of WP:DYKHOOK. I have re-struck ALT0 as nominators generally don't unstrike an already struck hook without some discussion with the reviewer. As I mentioned earlier, I am not against ALT0's hook fact, merely its wording. I am still open to some variation of ALT0 (perhaps with additional context or different wording), just not ALT0 as currently written. If you are not willing to propose alternate versions of ALT0 then I suppose I'll be approving ALT1 instead as a compromise. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:45, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with your subjective assessment (which is not the case with the other criteria in WP:DYKHOOK – they're pretty clear cut and objective). The last time you suggested an alternative hook for one of my noms claiming that it would make a better, more catchy DYK hook (Wayne Cooper (basketball), back in June this year), it drew in just 1,938 views. So there is good reason to (at the very least) question your take on what constitutes "interesting to a broad audience". That's why I've asked for an uninvolved editor to have a look at ALT0 and ALT1. For the new reviewer:

ALT0: ... that Mick Moloney (pictured) was a social worker in London before establishing the Green Fields of America, an Irish traditional music ensemble? Source: The New York Times

Again, for an uninvolved editor to assess. —Bloom6132 (talk) 08:01, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure why you really want ALT0 as written specifically when ALT1 already exists and is a suitable alternative. You already said that you're fine with ALT1, so why not just go with it? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:06, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Is there anything wrong with leaving it to the nom promoter decide? I'm fine if they choose ALT1 over ALT0, but the choice should at least be presented to them. It's not like ALT1 is palpably the superior hook that you're making it out to be. —Bloom6132 (talk) 08:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I like ALT0, but I'd want to see some clarification about what the Green Fields of America is – it wasn't immediately clear to me where the hookiness came from. Other than that, i suppose it's passably interesting. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 19:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I've now specified that it is an Irish traditional music ensemble. —Bloom6132 (talk) 06:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

relying on Narutolovehinata5's original review, I'll give this a tick. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 17:21, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Given that this has stalled for quite some time, I'll approve ALT1 as well – it'd slipped my mind that i could choose both. if a promoter wants either one, they're welcome to pick. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)