Template:Did you know nominations/Matthias Goethe

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Matthias Goethe

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... that Matthias Goethe, born in Prussia in 1827 and trained to become a Catholic priest, became a Lutheran pastor and established congregations in Australia, the United States and Mexico? Sources: "Matthias Goethe was born on 29 March 1827 at Neuendorf, Rhine Province, Prusia." (Mees p. 42); "He [Goethe] was brought up as a Roman Catholic and was being trained to become a priest..." (Hebart p. 81); "Pastor Goethe was inducted as the first Lutheran pastor in Victoria by..." (Mees p. 37); "Goethe thus became the first Lutheran minister and founder of the Lutheran congregation in Victoria." (ADB); "[Goethe] founded the first Lutheran congregation in Sacramento" (ADB); "[Goethe] helped establish a lasting Protestant German congregation in Mexico City and received its first call" (Mees p. 91)

Created by Johnuniq (talk). Self-nominated at 09:50, 12 May 2019 (UTC).

Re QPQ: This is my third DYK (see second). Johnuniq (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I edited the hook following a discussion here. Johnuniq (talk) 05:47, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

:* The online source given doesn't say he established a congregation in Mexico, it only says he preached there. I am assuming therefore that the source that backs this claim is the offline one? It would be better if the hook was cited in its entirety somewhere in the article, Can I suggest you change the sentence "...survived by his wife and four children, after founding Lutheran congregations in two continents" (in the Personal life section) to "...survived by his wife and four children, after founding Lutheran congregations in the Australia, Mexico and the United States" (or similar). Then adding the appropriate citation/s. Although I am happy to piece it all together, it might save problems further along the line.--Ykraps (talk) 08:54, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

@Ykraps: Thanks for taking this on. You have seen Talk:Matthias Goethe#Three continents where a mistake in the otherwise reliable book by Mees was pointed out by Verbcatcher. The book said "His subsequent founding of three Lutheran congregations on three continents suggests..." but as noted, while it's three countries it is only two continents. Incredibly, I left "three continents" in the article and you had to change that. Finding correct and sourced wording is difficult. As you saw, the online source ADB clearly says Goethe founded Lutheran congregations in Australia and the US, but merely says "he moved to Mexico City where he preached in Spanish and translated the Lutheran catechism into that language." Page 91 of Mees says "he advertised, met German-speakers ... helped establish a lasting Protestant German congregation in Mexico City and received its first call." In that sentence, it does not mention Lutheranism. I'll need some time to ponder this. Johnuniq (talk) 11:15, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

You can either change the hook to say, "...founded Lutheran congregations in two continents" and use the ADB source, or omit 'Lutheran' from your original hook and use both sources to reference. I am confident that is acceptable WP:Synth because you are not combining A and B to "...imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources" (emphasis mine).--Ykraps (talk) 15:34, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks I'll do something like that but as luck would have it I only have a short time at my computer today. Soon. Johnuniq (talk) 00:39, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
@Ykraps: Thanks, that is very helpful—I was blocked from working out what to do. I used your second suggestion and have updated the article and the hook. Johnuniq (talk) 04:47, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Article created on 10 May. Prose is 4,000 plus characters. Meets core policies and guidelines. Copyright/plagiarism from online sources unlikely, offline AGF.[[1]] Hook close to 200 character limit but not over (counted 3 times), is correctly formatted and cited in article. One of the sources is offline. QPQ exempt. Seems GTG now.--Ykraps (talk) 06:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)