Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph Vallot
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 11:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
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Joseph Vallot
Joseph Vallot (right)
- ... that in 1887, after spending three nights on the summit of Mont Blanc, scientist Joseph Vallot and his party (pictured) were greeted with flowers by the mayor and all the inhabitants of Chamonix? Source: Washington Post newspaper stated" ..at 7pm, Chamounix was reached, and the whole population of the town, headed by the maire (mayor), received the successful climbers with gifts of flowers and congratulations at having been the first to accomplish such an expedition" Washington Star see also: Annuaire du Club Alpin Français
Created by Nick Moyes (talk). Self-nominated at 00:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC).
New enough and easily long enough. QPQ done. Earwig found only proper noun phrases and properly marked quotes, no problematic copying. Image is PD, although not very legible at the tiny DYK size. Hook is interesting enough. Most content is adequately sourced, but the hook claims must have a citation on the sentence in the article making those claims, and they currently don't. Additionally, an entire paragraph (beginning "Vallot put his knowledge") is unsourced and marked as needing a source, and some of the entries in selected publications have neither a source nor a link through which we can verify that these publications actually existed. These sourcing issues need to be fixed before this can be accepted for DYK. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:43, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: Thank you. I have now addressed the valid concerns you raised.The image originally supplied is certainly small, but represents a momentous achievement for 1887 in proving that living at altitude is possible. However, a more detailed image of the man himself is offered here as an alternative. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- You addressed some but not all of the sourcing concerns. Where, for instance, can I verify the claim that he published a map of the Mont Blanc massif? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: The image of the Mont Blanc map included in the article clearly shows both his and Henri Vallot's names upon it, and it would have been inappropriate for me to have said (see image). However, there were also three inline citations which supported the statement (see here and here), all unfortunately in French, but easily translated with Google translate viz: 1)
"Faced with the need to have precise maps, Joseph Vallot ... launched an ambitious project at its own expense cartography of the Mont Blanc massif. He associates Henri with it who, to the question "must we improve existing maps or make a completely original card? », chooses ... a new map at 1/20,000. In 1891 [it] began....The two cousins share the task: to Joseph, a very good mountaineer, work in the high mountains; to Henry... observations at accessible altitudes"
- and 2)
"Only one map, from Chamonix, was published during their lifetime and it was finally Charles, Henri's son, who made the others with the help of Étienne de Larminat. on a real estate map of the Mont-Blanc massif on 1/20,000 and from entirely new surveys. This business occupied them for more than thirty years, Joseph doing the surveys in the high mountains and Henri in the valley."
If you feel I've missed other citations to support key statements, I'll be happy to address them. I know what it's like when you think you've got your head around every fact and every source, only to have missed something obvious, and I do appreciate that sources not in English can be an extra challenge to verify. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 02:28, 23 January 2022 (UTC)- So could you maybe choose one of those footnotes and reuse it to source the corresponding entry in the "Selected publications" section? Same for the other two that have no link. DYK rules require that all content (all sections and all paragraphs within sections) have sources. The fact that one can read the article and find the same information sourced elsewhere within it does not satisfy this requirement. —David Eppstein (talk) 02:34, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: I believe I've now correctly addressed your concerns over giving inline citations to each of the selected publications. Thanks. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:45, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: The image of the Mont Blanc map included in the article clearly shows both his and Henri Vallot's names upon it, and it would have been inappropriate for me to have said (see image). However, there were also three inline citations which supported the statement (see here and here), all unfortunately in French, but easily translated with Google translate viz: 1)
- You addressed some but not all of the sourcing concerns. Where, for instance, can I verify the claim that he published a map of the Mont Blanc massif? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- @David Eppstein: Thank you. I have now addressed the valid concerns you raised.The image originally supplied is certainly small, but represents a momentous achievement for 1887 in proving that living at altitude is possible. However, a more detailed image of the man himself is offered here as an alternative. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
All citation issues addressed; good to go with either image. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:20, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
To T:DYK/P6 without image