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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:48, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

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Il Postino (opera)

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After a double-check, the part was written for Plácido Domingo, with Domingo's input--forgot that last part. Domingo truly excelled at the role...

NewMexMike (talk) 01:07, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Created by NewMexMike (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 22:49, 3 September 2016 (UTC).

  • Some issues found.
    • ✓ This article is new and was created on 21:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
    • ✓ This article meets the DYK criteria at 6351 characters
    • ✗ Paragraphs [2] (In ... postman.),[4] (The ... nature.),[6] (Mario ... time.),[8] (At ... others.),[10] (During ... ("Metaphors").),[12] (The ... name.),[14] (Pablo ... payment.),[18] (Beatrice ... room.),[20] (Di ... Cosimo.),[22] (Mario ... advances.),[24] (In ... re-printed.),[26] (Distressed, ... Beatrice.),[28] (Mario ... away.),[30] (Pablo ... Understand").),[32] (Donna ... leaves.),[34] (Alone, ... unsuccessfully.),[36] (Mario ... celebrate.) in this article lack a citation.
    • ✓ This article has no outstanding maintenance tags
    • ✓ A copyright violation is unlikely according to automated metrics (11.5% confidence; confirm)
      • Note to reviewers: There is low confidence in this automated metric, please manually verify that there is no copyright infringement or close paraphrasing. Note that this number may be inflated due to cited quotes and titles which do not constitute a copyright violation.
  • No overall issues detected

Automatically reviewed by DYKReviewBot. This is not a substitute for a human review. Please report any issues with the bot. --DYKReviewBot (report bugs) 00:08, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

  • Hey bot, that is a plot, no citations needed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Article (New): Green tickY
  • Article (Long enough): Green tickY
  • Article (Within policy): Green tickY The article is essentially a very long plot. I would like some more information on the production and reception to prove notability and provide context.
  • Hook (Format): Green tickY
  • Hook (Content): Nominator seems to contradict their own hook in the following line. Please make your hook clear and concise. In addition, make sure the information in the hook is also in the article and properly sourced.
  • QPQ: Green tickY
  • Images: Green tickY One fair use image.

Overall: The article needs to be more than just one long plot. Need more sources to prove notability and show larger context. And the hook's assertion needs to be clearly in the article and properly sourced.--Coin945 (talk) 16:39, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

"Creating a role" in opera means to perform it in the premiere, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
I think the term you're thinking of is "originated the role". Still, please make sure that content in the hook is properly sourced in the article, and make it more than one long string of plot threads. What historical circumstances led to the play being written? What critical commentary has been written about it? Etc.--Coin945 (talk) 04:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
The term on Wikipedia is "created the role", you can ask on project opera. - We are not here for a GA review. I am only the nominator who found this interesting, after having seen the film. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:07, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
NewMexMike, Gerda Arendt, I think it would make a much better hook if it (and the article) said that the role was written specifically for and created/originated by Domingo. (While "created by" is the term of art, that a role was "created" by the first person to perform it, "originated" has the advantage of being understood by more people as being the first person to perform it.) I think Coin945 has a point that this is almost entirely plot, and more is needed about the actual work and its production and casting—under 570 of the 8000+ prose characters in the article are about something other than the plot, and that just isn't enough; per WP:DYKSG#D7, Articles that fail to deal adequately with the topic are also likely to be rejected. There's so much that could be here: how long it took to compose, whether it was a commission (likely with a three-theater co-production), what was its critical reception, what motivated the composer, and so on. I hope to see further expansion, plus more explicit hook support. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:44, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
NewMexMike, Gerda Arendt, and BlueMoonset, I'd be happy to help expand this with more background etc.. I can start tomorrow. I have an idea about the hook too, but note that Catán conceived the opera before he knew that Domingo would sing the title role. More tomorrow, it's dinner time :-) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:38, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
BlueMoonset and Coin945 (I'm not sure which of you is the actual reviewer here), this is a slightly different wording of the original hook. I am aware that while it is standard when discussing an opera to call the person who was the first to sing a particular role the role's "creator", this confuses people unfamiliar with the topic. Hence the rewording. This hook is now the last sentence of the lede Daniel Catán wrote the role of Pablo Neruda for Plácido Domingo, who sang it at the Los Angeles premiere and in subsequent performances in Vienna and Paris. The supporting reference is the first one following that sentence (Swed, Mark (24 September 2010). "Opera review: L.A. Opera premieres 'Il Postino'". Los Angeles Times). It is a review of the world premiere performance which states "The opera was written for two star tenors: Plácido Domingo as the Chilean poet Pablo Neruda and Rolando Villazón as Mario, the young postman who befriends him." I have also expanded the article to include background and performance history. I will add a "Critical reception" section and more details about the libretto itself shortly. Voceditenore (talk) 16:14, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Voceditenore, please let us know when you've completed the expansion of the article; I don't think it makes sense to resume the review until that's ready, since the review will need to cover the new material. Coin945 is the official reviewer, but if there is no desire to continue the review, we can call for a new reviewer once your work is done. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:31, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Hi BlueMoonset. The expansion of an article is never "complete", but I feel I have now addressed the criticism that the creator's original version was basically all plot summary. I have added referenced sections on the opera's background and performance history, the libretto, and its critical reception. So if Coin945 doesn't want to do a further review, then perhaps another reviewer could be found? In any case, at this point I do not intend to significantly expand it beyond this. This is a DYK nomination not an FA nomination. Voceditenore (talk) 07:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed to do a complete recheck of the criteria now that the article has been expanded; previous reviewer has not returned. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:57, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
  • This article is long enough and was new enough at the time of nomination. Voceditenore has dealt with the problems mentioned above and ALT1 is acceptable. The article is neutral, Earwig brought up nothing of concern and this is good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:36, 23 October 2016 (UTC).
  • As a complete novice, I find the ALT1 hook straightforward rather than hooky. He wrote the opera for Placido Domingo, who sang it ... so what? Excuse my ignorance, please. Yoninah (talk) 23:18, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
  • OK, Yoninah, BlueMoonset, Cwmhiraeth, et al., here are two more possibilities and if neither of those are any good, I'm bowing out of this. I didn't create or nominate this article. I was just trying to help out when it got rejected. Both its creator and the nominator seem to have abandoned it, and I really cannot spend any more time on this. Voceditenore (talk) 08:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
  • ALT2 ... that a Nobel Prize-winning poet was a character in an opera about a postman?
The Nobel Prize is supported in the second paragraph of the libretto section (Neruda's entry in the Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary) and the fact that he is a character is blindingly obvious, but if you need a reference, see the references at the end of the penultimate sentence in the lead.
  • ALT3 ... that Daniel Catán's opera Il Postino is set in Italy but sung in Spanish?
The relevant claim is in several sentences of the last paragraph of the libretto section. The last sentence and the attendant reference is a direct quote from the source. "The critic for the British magazine Opera wrote, "The only real problem is that Catán, for some inexplicable reason, keeps the story set in Italy-despite writing the opera in Spanish. [...]"
I like ALT2 especially. We must explain Neruda and Domingo, people will not know the poet and one of The Three Tenors ;) - I abandoned Wikipedia for private matters (of a joyful kind), but am back. Thank you for helping this article to what it is, Voce! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Approving ALT3, which has inline citations. Not approving ALT2, because it seems to muddle fact and fiction. Real life Pablo Neruda won a Nobel prize, and I am unclear as to the status of the Neruda in the opera. So lets just go with ALT3, as Voceditenore has expressed a wish to finalise this nomination. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:51, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Hopefully it doesn't matter which hook attracts to reading the opera. We might say that Le nozze di Figaro is sung in Italian although it is set in Spain, - would that say the slightest bit about Mozart's work? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
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