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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:52, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

HKmap.live

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Created by Feminist (talk). Self-nominated at 19:09, 10 October 2019 (UTC).

  • Created same day as nomination, so new enough. Article is 5k in length, exceeding the 1.5k requirement. Article presents viewpoints from several angles without taking sides, although it will need to be watched because this is not-distantly related to a hot, sensitive, current issue. Every sentence of every paragraph is referenced to a reliable source for the context presented. Earwig's copyvio check only found direct quotes or long official titles. I find no close paraphrasing, organizational similarities, or other copyvio problems. Both hooks are within format guidelines and interesting to a broad audience. I have a very slight preference with ALT1, but either hook works. Both hooks are directly attributable to content within the article that is directly sourced, and sources directly support the claims presented. Hooks are presented in a neutral manner. QPQ complete. No image to check against. Article is ready for main page exposure. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:53, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but there is close paraphrasing of phrases from The Guardian article:
  • Source: China's state media has accused Apple of endorsing and protecting "rioters"
  • Article: accused Apple of endorsing and protecting "rioters"
  • Source: appears to be China’s latest move to pressure foreign companies to toe the line
  • Article: The Guardian described this condemnation as an attempt by China to pressure foreign companies to toe its line
  • Please rephrase in your own words, or put the copied words in quotes.
  • It's also not clear from the hook that this app is meant to track protests and police presence. I think a hook along those lines would be more hooky than the current wording. Yoninah (talk) 21:32, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
How odd, Earwig didn't pick this up when I checked it. Or I plain missed it. Couldn't possibly be user error, nah. There's also the phrase "It also criticised Apple for allowing "Glory to Hong Kong"," which is a direct copy, and needs to be re-done. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 03:43, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
@78.26 and Yoninah: fixed. ALT2: ... that Apple removed HKmap.live, an app tracking protests and police presence in Hong Kong, from its App Store after a People's Daily editorial condemned it for approving the app? feminist (talk) 03:39, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
@Feminist: Thank you! I profusely apologize because I know it's a pain, but there's two minor things that may not cross the originality threshold The first is too close to the New York Times article, the offending phrase being "with the negative public image of capitulating". There's also "Apple’s approval of the app made it an “accomplice” in the protests" from the Guardian, which is a bit harder to re-write but perhaps something can be done. If it makes you feel any better, these articles from different sources copy each other in phraseology far more what what was originally written here. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:38, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
  • ALT2 is rather long and windy. Is there any reason for including the People's Daily reasoning? I think the hook should be shortened and punched up for more effect. Yoninah (talk) 14:44, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
  • @78.26: I've added quotation marks to the NYT phrase, and paraphrased from the original (Chinese-language) People's Daily article so that I am not reliant on the Guardian's translation. @Yoninah: Yeah, it's quite long, but Apple taking down the app was widely seen as it capitulating to the demands of the PRC. Quoting the cited NYT article, All the firms are balancing the enormous economic opportunity in China, with its 1.4 billion consumers, with the negative public image of capitulating to an authoritarian government. Most sources noted the timing between the People's Daily article and Apple removing the app from the app store, suggesting a causal link between the two. If most sources consider this connection to be important, we probably should as well. feminist (talk) 02:04, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
  • You know, I'm reading the article for the first time in order to suggest a new alt, and it seems to me that the page is giving too much weight to the approval and disapproval controversy. The only material written about the app itself is in the lead. It certainly seems in order to add a section about the development and operation of the app.
  • Regarding the new alt, if you tell the whole story in the hook, there's no reason to click on the link. Instead of bringing in The People's Daily, can't you just say that the app has faced criticism for this-and-this reason? Surely this could be written in a hooky way. Yoninah (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately I'm having a hard time finding much information about the app's development in RS. The vast majority of coverage centers on the Apple approval/disapproval controversy (try searching for the topic). Adding a section on operation/functionality etc. is possible, but most sources only mention it in passing within the Apple controversy. I'll try. feminist (talk) 03:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Done: I've added a section on the app's development and operation. Unfortunately I was unable to find any non-primary sources for its launch in August 2019. feminist (talk) 03:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I am comfortable with the copyvio aspects of this, now. I also note that the app almost certainly wouldn't meet notability standards if it weren't for the Apple removal controversy, and therefore independent coverage of the app outside this controversy is nonexistent. Just throwing harebrained ideas around, would a more appropriate title for the article be "HKmap.live removal controversy"? 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, but now that I've added a section on the app's development and operation, I don't think a page move is necessary.
ALT3: ... that Apple removed HKmap.live, an app tracking protests and police presence in Hong Kong, from its App Store? feminist (talk) 02:46, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah: your thoughts on ALT3? feminist (talk) 18:24, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
  • @Feminist: Yes, ALT3 works. Would you consider adding a timeline, like:
  • ALT3a: ... that Apple removed HKmap.live, an app tracking protests and police presence in Hong Kong, from its App Store less than a week after approving it? Yoninah (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Sure, that works. feminist (talk) 07:23, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Alt 3 or Alt 3a look good to me as well. --evrik (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
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