Template:Did you know nominations/Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram

The following is an archived discussion of Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you know (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC).

Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram, Pancha Rathas, Dharmaraja Ratha, Arjuna Ratha, Bhima Ratha, Draupadi Ratha, Nakula Sahadeva Ratha, Ganesha Ratha, Cave Temples of Mahabalipuram, Varaha Cave Temple, Krishna Cave Temple, Mahishasuramardini mandapa, Panchapandava Cave Temple, Olakkannesvara Temple, Shore Temple, Descent of the Ganges (Mahabalipuram)

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... that the UNESCO-inscribed Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram of the Pallava Period, include: Ganesha Ratha; the Pancha Rathas of Dharmaraja, Arjuna, Bhima, Draupadi, and Nakula Sahadeva; several cave temples, such as Varaha, Krishna, Mahishasuramardini, and Panchapandava; the structural temples of Olakkannesvara and Shore; as well as the Descent of the Ganges (pictured), which is one of the largest open-air bas-reliefs in the world?

Created/expanded by Nvvchar (talk), Rosiestep (talk), Dr. Blofeld (talk), and Bonkers The Clown (talk). Nominated by Rosiestep (talk) at 03:12, 21 March 2013 (UTC).

QPQ list (16 needed)

1 Template:Did you know nominations/Seokjeon

2,3 Template:Did you know nominations/Marohita mouse lemur & Anosy mouse lemur

4 Template:Did you know nominations/Marj al-Sultan

5 Template:Did you know nominations/Ambrosio (horse)

6 Template:Did you know nominations/Perophora viridis, Amathia vidovici

7 Template:Did you know nominations/Kokis

8 Template:Did you know nominations/Godfrey Haggard

9, 10,11 Template:Did you know nominations/Hicksbeachia Hicksbeachia, Carnarvonia, Cardwellia

12,13 Template:Did you know nominations/Cass Peak

14,15 Template:Did you know nominations/Poverty in Austrian Galicia

16 Template:Did you know nominations/Ebor (horse)

Reviews

For convenience sake, let's list each article so that different reviewers can weigh in on them:

Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram ~~- slightly shorter than it was in February - how does this qualify? Johnbod (talk) 15:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)~~

New enough, long enough, well-referenced. Hook ref verified. I just have a few questions on the text:
Under History, first paragraph: the second sentence is not complete, and the third sentence contradicts the second sentence. Third paragraph: the description of the three temples in the Shore Temple is lifted straight out of footnote 6. Fourth paragraph: Do you have a source for all this information about what the tourists saw before the tsunami struck?
Under Architecture, the last 2 sentences are rather close paraphrasing of the sources.
The Conservation section also follows the source rather closely. The text should not be written with an open-ended "has begun", but mention specific years in the progress of the project.
Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:48, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for tidying up the text. I also did a little editing to distance the text further from the source. Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram good to go. Yoninah (talk) 10:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Pancha Rathas New enough, long enough, well-referenced. Hook ref verified. However, the paragraph under Notable Landmarks follows the style and wording of the source in footnote 14 very closely. Perhaps you could modify using information from other ratha articles?

Source text:
Dharmaraja Ratha resembled a three-stepped pyramid with a square ground-plan. Its base is richly adorned with depictions of Harihara, Brahma, Skanda, Ardhanarishvara and Narasimhavarman I, who commissioned it. Arjuna Ratha, with its richly ornamated façade, resembles Dharmaraja Ratha; on its eastern side is a very fine depiction of the Vedic god Indra riding on his white elephant Airavata. Next to this ratha is a monolithic Nandi. The rectangular Bhima Ratha has a gallery on its long side flanked by four lion columns on either side. The small, plain building with empty apses on the façade is Nakula Sahadeva Ratha, beside which is a monolithic elephant. The square Draupadi Ratha, which houses a depiction of the mother goddess Durga, looks more like a straw-covered hut than a temple.
Your text:
The Dharmaraja Ratha appears like three stepped pyramid and is one of the complex structures seen here. It is carved over square ground plan. It has many embellishments of Hindu gods like Harihara, Brahma, Skanda, Ardhanarishvara and also of the builder King Narasimhavarman I. The next in order is the Arjuna Ratha, which is well decorated with an elegant frontage façade and is akin to the Dharmaraja Ratha. A fresco of demi-god Indra mounted on a White Elephant known as Airavata is an impressive depiction on the east side of the ratha. There is also an independent monolithic stone sculpture of Nandi, adjoining this ratha; the next in order is the Bhima Ratha, which has a rectangular lay out with galleries on either of the long sides of the rectangle which depict four lion mounted columns. The next ratha is the Nakula Sahadeva Ratha which has simple design and it has no decorations on the façade and has vacant apses. There is stone monolithic sculpture elephant fixed next to this ratha; the last of the rathas is the Draupadi Ratha which has a square plan and appears like a village hut covered with thatch roof. The fresco inside this shrine is of mother goddess Durga. Yoninah (talk) 21:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I have now modified the text and I hope it is ok.--Nvvchar. 01:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. The writing also reads more elegantly. Pancha Rathas good to go. Yoninah (talk) 10:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dharmaraja Ratha - Well referenced (and checks out), expanded 5x and long enough _ Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 17:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Arjuna Ratha - Long enough and well referenced and written but expansion began on January 9, 2013 - which would fall outside of the time-frame needed Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle}

Arjuna Ratha was also transferred from User:Rosiestep/sandbox/Arjuna Ratha page on 15th March 2013, with all the history, as clarified above by user Gilderien.--Nvvchar. 09:51, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

. User:Panyd, the original article on the main page was started by Dr. Blofeld on 1 January 2013 (ch 280 only) but it was imported to user page created by Rosiestep on 3 January for expansion. It was transferred back to main space again at our request by Materialscientist with full history of contributors retained in the main article. I hope this clarifies the position of its 5x expansion. Thanks --Nvvchar. 05:04, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

It's clear from the history that the article was moved from Rosiestep's sandbox into userspace on March 15. Article is new enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Hook ref verified. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 19:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Bhima Ratha New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Hook ref verified. However, the link for footnote 4 has been deleted. Yoninah (talk) 21:41, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:Dead links not much of a problem. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 09:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not a dead link exactly; the reference was a file on Wikipedia that was deleted. Could you provide another link, perhaps from a website? Yoninah (talk) 10:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Yoninah. Sorry about the confusion caused due to deletion of the image of the plaque. I was not aware of it. I have now uploaded a new freely licensed image and changed the url in the reference. As the image may not be very clear I have posted a verbatim text inscribed on the plaque in the talk page of the article. I have made similar changes in the other three articles connected with the ratha. Flickr has a number of free imgs of the Five Rathas. However, I may mention that other references given in the article also allude to the text of plaque in a different way. I hope the change meets your observation--Nvvchar. 02:15, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Bhima Ratha good to go. Yoninah (talk) 11:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Draupadi Ratha - New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Hook ref verified. However, a citation is needed for the second paragraph under Geography. Yoninah (talk) 09:39, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Yoninah. I was away for two days and hence could not respond. I have fixeed the reference now. I hope it is OK.--Nvvchar. 12:37, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Draupadi Ratha good to go. Yoninah (talk) 13:03, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Nakula Sahadeva Ratha - New start in userspace, moved just before nom. All checks out. Johnbod (talk) 15:28, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Ganesha Ratha - New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Hook ref verified. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 09:44, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Cave Temples of Mahabalipuram - - Long enough, expanded enough within the given time and well referenced - Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 22:18, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The hook fact is not cited in the article. Yoninah (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I have now provided the citation.--Nvvchar. 02:15, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Good to go now! Transparency note: While I am involved with some of the nominated articles, I did not assist in the expansion of this particular article and am thus not breaking any DYK rules (I think). Feel free to leave me a babble note if what I've done does not conform to policy. Cheers, ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 14:22, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I'll second that for the record. Hook ref verified. Cave Temples of Mahabalipuram good to go. Yoninah (talk) 09:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Varaha Cave Temple — Expanded enough, long enough, well sourced, hook referenced. Amazing work !! Hillbillyholiday ^talk 08:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Krishna Cave Temple New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Hook ref verified. There is just one word missing in the first paragraph under Architecture, where I added a "clarification needed" tag. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Yoninah. The words after "facade" in the architecture section are superfluous. Hence deleted. I hope it is OK now.--Nvvchar. 23:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It is. Krishna Cave Temple good to go. Yoninah (talk) 10:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Mahishasuramardini mandapa - New enough, long enough, well-referenced. Hook ref verified. A few notes:

The paragraph under Layout closely follows the source line by line.
The paragraphs under Architecture also follow the sources line by line, with a bit of close paraphrasing in the descriptions.
Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:11, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Yoninah for your continued interest in reviewing most of these articles. I have addressed your concerns in respect of both sections. I hope you will now find them in order.--Nvvchar. 18:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. Mahishasuramardini mandapa good to go. Yoninah (talk) 20:14, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Panchapandava Cave Temple Unsure of this "nice columns" bit. I checked the ref and there may be a misquote of this from page 591 (not 589 as per ref): "Krishna Mandapa with nice depictions from Krishna's life and with Pancha Pandava Mandapa lion columns" - Also, UNESCO ref needed. Hillbillyholiday ^talk 09:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Words after "facade were superfluous. Hence deleted. I hope it is OK now,--Nvvchar. 23:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks,Hillbillyholiday. The book refrence was wrongly fixed. I have now fixed a reference (6) of the British Library and deleted the book reference as it does not provide any additional information. Unesco reference with a little text has been added to provide link with other 15 articles. I hope you will find it in order now.--Nvvchar. 13:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Kool & the Gang! Good to go! Hillbillyholiday ^talk 13:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Shore Temple ~~- again, expansion was mainly in February. Johnbod (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)~~

The history shows this page was moved from Rosiestep's sandbox to userspace on March 16. New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Hook ref verified. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 19:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Olakkannesvara Temple - New enough, long enough, well referenced. No close paraphrasing seen in sources. However, it is my understanding that the hook fact must appear in each article, with a citation next to it. I don't see any mention of "UNESCO-inscribed Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram of the Pallava Period" in this article. Perhaps this sentence, found in the lead of Descent of the Ganges, is in order? It is one of the Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram that were designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 1984. Yoninah (talk) 19:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Re comment about Olakkannesvara Temple: I added the UNESCO sentence. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:13, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Hook ref verified. Olakkannesvara Temple good to go. Yoninah (talk) 11:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Descent of the Ganges (Mahabalipuram) - New enough, long enough, well-referenced, no close paraphrasing seen in sources. Image is public domain. Hook ref is verified. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Also note: There are 16 nominations, so 16 QPQs are in order. Yoninah (talk) 19:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

The first 2 sampled clearly don't meet DYK rules. There are clearly big problems here. Johnbod (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello, the articles were moved to my Sandbox for expansion on 1/1/13; here's the project page, User:Rosiestep/sandbox/Mahabalipuram monuments project. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:59, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Both had existed since 2007/08 & been edited by many people; they have not been 5x expanded that I can see. I'm not sure what you've done but I'm fairly sure these two don't qualify for DYK. Others may, but you need to explain the nom far better. With 16 articles, don't ask the reviewer to do detective work. Of course it's great to see improvements to the area of Indian art, where we are very weak. Johnbod (talk) 21:04, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

According to the DYKcheck tool they are eligible - from what I can tell it has been history-merged - the expansion since January from ~2000 bytes to ~20000 bytes was undertaken in userspace but then to preserve attribution merged back in with the history intact so it appears like it is ineligible unless you look at the logs.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 01:18, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I did look at the logs, but I don't use the check tool. This is asking a hell of a lot of work from a reviewer, & I won't be taking it further. Johnbod (talk) 03:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Nobody asked you to do so anyway...If you aren't willing to check them all out and review them, in future avoid such big multiple noms, I agree there's a lot to look at and probably needs several editors to split the workload. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 07:09, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Not only is the nomination a tad too big, it becomes confusing for the readers who will lose track of the sentence's structure if the enumeration runs on too long. Let me propose an ALT1 with only the currently approved articles left, so that this nomination is not such a gargantuan task to review anymore, nor discredits the reviewing work already done by the faithful editors.

ALT1... that the UNESCO-inscribed Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram of the Pallava Period, include: Ganesha Ratha; Draupadi, and Nakula Sahadeva; several cave temples, such as Varaha, and Panchapandava; the structural temple of Olakkannesvara; as well as the Descent of the Ganges (pictured), which is one of the largest open-air bas-reliefs in the world?

How about that? —♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 13:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. All the nominated articles are on the same subject, and the page creators have ample precedent to create multi-hooks. There are only 2 nominations left to review; why don't you work on some instead?

IMO there are a few too many commas in the original. Here's how I would do it:

ALT2: ... that the UNESCO-inscribed Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram of the Pallava Period include: Ganesha Ratha; the Pancha Rathas of Dharmaraja, Arjuna, Bhima, Draupadi, and Nakula Sahadeva; several cave temples such as Varaha, Krishna, Mahishasuramardini, and Panchapandava; the structural temples of Olakkannesvara and Shore; and the Descent of the Ganges (pictured), one of the largest open-air bas-reliefs in the world? Yoninah (talk) 18:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting the original Hook with the above alternative. We will comply with review observations of the remaining three artciles as well.--Nvvchar. 23:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Final tally on DYK reviews (Please add icons as each is approved)

Group of Monuments at Mahabalipuram

Nakula Sahadeva Ratha

Ganesha Ratha

Cave Temples of Mahabalipuram

Varaha Cave Temple

Krishna Cave Temple

Mahishasuramardini mandapa

Panchapandava Cave Temple

Shore Temple

Olakkannesvara Temple

Descent of the Ganges (Mahabalipuram)

-- Yoninah (talk) 18:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

One article still has issues (note the lack of a tick). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

All is in order now. Hook ref verified and found in all 16 articles. 16 QPQs done. This important UNESCO World Heritage Site deserves the top spot in the queue. ALT2 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 10:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)