Template:Did you know nominations/Generación del 13

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 ^talk 10:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Generación del 13

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... that Fernando Álvarez de Sotomayor was so influential on the Chilean artist group Generación del 13 (pictured) that "Generation Alvarez de Sotomayor" has been suggested as a nickname?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Miriam Battista

Created by Rosiestep (talk). Self nominated at 19:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC).

Date and length fine; no appearance of plagiarism/paraphrasing. But! the hook is not supported by reference given (correct page?). While it may be inferred it is not stated. Can you come up with something more concrete since article is weakly referenced in general? QPQ pending. Djflem (talk) 18:57, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that many of the Chilean artists known as Generación del 13 (pictured) were trained by the Spaniard, Fernando Álvarez de Sotomayor? --Rosiestep (talk) 03:49, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

The article would need be fixed, too! Djflem (talk) 23:13, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I have expanded and further referenced the article. Please let me know if there are any other needed fixes. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:03, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

New review needed to see whether issues have been addressed. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:09, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

I regret to report that I discovered that much of this content cannot be treated as new to English Wikipedia (although the article creator probably was unaware of this). I discovered that the topic is already covered at Chilean art#The 13 Generation, in far more detail than in this article. Both this article and the section in Chilean art may have started out as translations from the Spanish Wikipedia article es:Generación del 13 (this provenance is documented in the Generación del 13 page history, but Spanish Wikipedia is not acknowledged as a source for the Chilean art article), but the Chilean art translation is more artful.

The content about Álvarez de Sotomayor in the Generación del 13 page does seem to be original (and it is more extensive than what's in the Chilean art article) and the article is better sourced than either Chilean art or the Spanish Wikipedia article. However, because Álvarez de Sotomayor was a Spaniard who was not actually a member of this Chilean group, the focus on him (rather than on the artists who were actually in this group) creates a somewhat unbalanced presentation here. Based on what I found, I have reservations about using this article at DYK -- at least until it stops looking like a poor copy of the other article.

There is some potential good news in my discovery, though. The good news is that this article could be substantially expanded and improved by bringing in content and wording from the Chilean art article -- assuming, of course, that references can be found for the imported content that is not currently supported by citations.

Rosiestep, what are your reactions to this information? --Orlady (talk) 16:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Orlady - My initial reaction was, "What??" I was unaware of Chilean art#The 13 Generation. If I had been aware of it, I would have incorporated some of its content (referenced bulleted list) in the early hours of creating Generación del 13. The [Sala generacion del trece.JPG] image of the Generación del 13 room at the Casa del Arte was the catalyst for starting the Gen13 article; my contribution history shows that I was working on the Casa del Arte article previously.

I think the bulleted list in Chilean art#The 13 Generation could be incorporated into Generación del 13. As there aren't any references in any of the prose paragraphs in Chilean art#The 13 Generation, the content is currently unusable. I'll google again for English language refs, though I had done an exhaustive search previously; perhaps there's an English language textbook out there... after all, someone used something to write up Chilean art#The 13 Generation. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I was pretty sure that you hadn't been aware of that other article. I found it when I Googled "Generation of 13". I didn't investigate very closely, but I had the impression that the content in the Chilean art article might have been translated from the Spanish Wikipedia article about this group. --Orlady (talk) 04:21, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I am glad you found it! Yes, it might have been translated... and they did a much better job than my attempt. I'm going to contact the Chilean art author, User:Teamdulwich (apparently a husband/wife Chilean/British team), to ask if they remember what resources they used for the Gen13 section. I did find the article in their sandbox. --Rosiestep (talk) 05:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I plan to work on some of the editing changes described above on Saturday. It would be nice if I hear back from User:Teamdulwich before then; we'll see. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Too bad you haven't heard from the "team" yet. They have done a bit of editing in the last couple of days -- including adding a new citation to the 13 Generation section of Chilean art. Regardless, there's no deadline here. --Orlady (talk) 02:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Teamdulwich responded on my talkpage today, providing 4 es lang ELs (1 to a book description, and 3 websites) used in creating the Gen13 section of the Chilean art article. I thanked Teamdulwich for its response and indicated the changes I intended to make to both articles, along with why I thought it would improve both. Thereafter, I edited both articles with appropriate attributions, etc. I'll postpone converting the website ELs into inline citations until tomorrow or the weekend. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:20, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I think I've worked through all the deficiencies. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:51, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that Generación del 13 (pictured) derives its name from a joint exhibition held in 1912 at the Salon of the Chilean newspaper El Mercurio"?

ALT3: ... that one of the largest collections of works by Generación del 13 (pictured) is held by the University of Chile? --Rosiestep (talk) 20:11, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Per User:Ucucha/HarvErrors , there are multiple errors on Harvrefs — Maile (talk) 14:30, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Confirming all were fixed — Maile (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Issues with the article are reasonably well resolved. Hooks are in the article and are supported by sources. To make the hooks more interesting, I suggest adding some clarifying words:

ALT2A: ... that the artists' group Generación del 13 (pictured) derives its name from a joint exhibition held in 1912 at the Salon of the Chilean newspaper El Mercurio"?

ALT3A: ... that one of the largest collections of works by the artists known as Generación del 13 (pictured) is held by the University of Chile? --Orlady (talk) 20:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Both hooks are good to go -- mentioning in the hooks that that these are artists is not something that should require an additional reviewer. --Orlady (talk) 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)