Template:Did you know nominations/Five Flower Songs
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 22:49, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
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Five Flower Songs
Dartingon Hall and gardens
- ... that Five Flower Songs, a set of five part songs to poems mentioning flowers that Benjamin Britten composed for the 25th wedding anniversary of Leonard and Dorothy Elmhirst, premiered in their gardens at Dartington Hall (pictured)? Source: several
- Reviewed:
to come
- Reviewed:
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 10:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC).
- To draw clearer focus to the featured article, with fewer links to other articles, and to avoid trying to tell the full story in the hook, I suggest alt1 ... that Five Flower Songs was composed by Benjamin Britten for the 25th wedding anniversary of botanists and premiered in their gardens (pictured)? Cbl62 (talk)
- To say what these songs are, we need part songs at least, or readers would think normal songs, and the pretty high class of the dedicaties and their property doesn't show in just "botanists" and "gardens". Sadly, we don't have a more flowery image of the gardens. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
QPQ still pending, but otherwise the rest of the article checks out (new enough, long enough, no close paraphrasing, hook facts are cited inline and AGF on the sourcing). As Cbl62 said, ALT1 is probably the better option here due to its more focused writing. Ready to go once a QPQ is done. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, both. I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/WSNS-TV. You didn't yet mention the image, - I fear it is not good enough, so the grandeur of the place will be in the words only. Trying to please:
- ALT0a: ... that Five Flower Songs, a set of five part songs that Benjamin Britten composed for a 25th wedding anniversary, premiered in the couple's gardens at Dartington Hall (pictured)?
- ALT0b: ... that Five Flower Songs, a set of five part songs that Benjamin Britten composed for the 25th wedding anniversary of Leonard and Dorothy Elmhirst, premiered in their gardens (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- I like ALT0a's direction but I find the wording rather off. I'm not a fan of "in the couple's gardens" since it sounds too vague. Perhaps you'll be fine with this wording instead?
- ALT0c: ... that Benjamin Britten's Five Flower Songs, composed for a couple's 25th wedding anniversary, premiered in their gardens at Dartington Hall (pictured)?
- It might be a better idea to limit the links in the article to just one or two in the hook in this case. "Five part songs" also seems redundant since the article title already implies it's five songs, and if readers want to know it's a part song, they could always read the article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:45, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the consideration. You are right that five is redundant, sorry about that. Part song, however, is the key word, because it's unexpected. They are not the normal songs. In ALT0c, I think a couple's is redundant, because a wedding anniversary is always of a couple, no? If you don't want "part songs", how is this:
- ALT1: ... that Five Flower Songs, composed by Benjamin Britten for a 25th wedding anniversary in 1950, was premiered in the gardens at Dartington Hall (pictured) by a student choir conducted by Imogen Holst? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- That's just adding too many details to a hook. I really don't think the mention of Holst is necessary. Also, I think ALT1 loses very important context, the fact that the couple in question was the owner of the gardens. I suggest not going with ALT1. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:33, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Nothing in a hook is necessary. Holst is a woman, a featured article, a woman who would play a great role in Britten's life, so she is in a way more worthy to be mentioned than the dedicatees. Saying student choir seemed a good a way to avoid the (a bit technical) part song, but as you wish. Variant of your c:
- ALT0d: ... that Britten's Five Flower Songs, part songs composed for a couple's 25th wedding anniversary, premiered in their gardens at Dartington Hall (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:57, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, I think we can go with ALT0d. The last remaining issue here is that the "it premiered at their gardens" part is only mentioned in the lede, unreferenced. For the hook to pass, the relevant sentence needs a footnote. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- I added the fact to the text. The main source says "outdoor event" - given flowers and the circumstances, I hope we can imagine "garden" rather than "street". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- We still need a direct mention and citation for the "premiered in their gardens" part, as right now the only thing that has a reference is Holst's conducting. I see that it's mentioned in the lede, so one option would be to add a footnote there. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:18, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- I added another ref, from a book, but none of them says "garden".
- ALT0e: ... that Britten's Five Flower Songs, part songs composed for a couple's 25th wedding anniversary, premiered in the open air at their estate Dartington Hall (pictured)?
- I found this, with more detail about the Elmhirsts, but also not saying "garden". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:40, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps just say "premiered at their estate"? The important part here seems to be that the songs premiered at their property, the fact that it took place at their gardens is just happenstance. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:35, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- I believe that not not show enough the "open air" aspect" which the composer took into account. I rather tend to turn to the Imogen Holst aspect, with a solid book source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:42, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps just say "premiered at their estate"? The important part here seems to be that the songs premiered at their property, the fact that it took place at their gardens is just happenstance. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:35, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- We still need a direct mention and citation for the "premiered in their gardens" part, as right now the only thing that has a reference is Holst's conducting. I see that it's mentioned in the lede, so one option would be to add a footnote there. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:18, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- I added the fact to the text. The main source says "outdoor event" - given flowers and the circumstances, I hope we can imagine "garden" rather than "street". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, I think we can go with ALT0d. The last remaining issue here is that the "it premiered at their gardens" part is only mentioned in the lede, unreferenced. For the hook to pass, the relevant sentence needs a footnote. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- That's just adding too many details to a hook. I really don't think the mention of Holst is necessary. Also, I think ALT1 loses very important context, the fact that the couple in question was the owner of the gardens. I suggest not going with ALT1. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:33, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- I like ALT0a's direction but I find the wording rather off. I'm not a fan of "in the couple's gardens" since it sounds too vague. Perhaps you'll be fine with this wording instead?
Anyway, to move this forward, I am approving a slight revision of ALT0e here:
- ALT0f: ... that Britten's Five Flower Songs, part songs composed for a couple's 25th wedding anniversary, premiered at their estate Dartington Hall (pictured)?
- Everything else is now good to go. ALT0f is approved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:12, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- prep builder, I'd prefer mentioning the unusual open air aspect as explained just above, ALT1e (unless I misunderstand "at their property" which is possible). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 13 September 2022 (UTC)