Template:Did you know nominations/Eugen Szenkar

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Eugen Szenkar

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Eugen Szenkar in 1939

• ... that conductor Eugen Szenkar (pictured), who promoted works by Béla Bartók and Gustav Mahler early in Germany, Russia and Brazil, caused a scandal with the world premiere of The Miraculous Mandarin? Source: several

• Reviewed: Glass Pieces
• Comment: So much we could say ... fled the Nazis, was purged from Moscow by Stalin, was held in Brazil because War broke out, stayed for 10 years but returned to Germany after all ... - but he loved music above all, so more music than politics. The image is pale, but he'd deserve some extra attention.

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 16:20, 25 September 2020 (UTC).

• Hi, Gerda and User:LouisAlain, great work! Review follows: I added some links to the article. What does He remained faithful to his intentions for life, mean? Same for who was not generally accepted. AGF on offline sources and foreign languages. His brother Alexander was also a conductor who does he refer to? Szenkar or his son? Per MOS:ORDER, 'Further reading' should go after 'references' and before 'external links' QPQ is good. Article is well written (enough, we can never be perfect), no evident copyvio/close paraphrasing. Character count is barely fine. Image looks good, licencing seems correct. I'm struggling to find where the 'scandal' is described in the article, it was removed from the program on instructions by the mayor doesn't really establish it as a bona fide scandal to me. Best, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 02:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

  "'Further reading' should go after 'references' and before 'external links'". Thanks, I didn't know. LouisAlain (talk) 04:34, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

  Thank you for a thorough review, Eddie. If we place further reading below refs, we can't source the book, but perhaps we should use it as a ref anyway. - I don't believe we need to link World War II in the lead ;) - Thank you for the other links. - I clarified brotherhood, and wrote a bit more about the Mandarin thing. "Furore" and "near riot" were mentioned, and the piece banned, - if you have a better summary than "scandal", great! The Vratz source says "Sensation und Theaterskandal" (I think I don't have to translate.) - The summary would also profit from rephrasing. The source says "Seinen Lebensweg ... hat­te er als den eines Aus­län­ders, eines Juden und eines Linken emp­fun­den - ein Unangepasster, der sich und seinen kün­st­lerischen Überzeu­gun­gen stets treu geblieben ist." (translation program: "... he had experienced his life as that of a foreigner, a Jew and a leftist - a non-conformist who always remained true to himself and his artistic convictions.") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, I've verified the hook in provided source, seems reliable. Scandal works for me, see how this source and this one describes it as well (you could probably add some more detail from those books).

Minor things that won't hold up a DYK review: The books can source themselves (you don't need to cite them separately.I think I was tripped up by reading faithful to his intentions for life because it isn't clear to me what his intentions for life were. I'm not positive what 'artistic convictions' would refer to, if you cannot clarify, it's not a huge deal. Similarly it isn't clear to a reader who isn't familiar with the subject area why Mahler would have been a composer who was not generally accepted, is it possible to add anything on that? Cheers, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:19, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Eddie. The book stands for itself, sure, but to have two excellent book reviews as well - I thought that was worth indicating. Will think about it, also about his "musical faith", - part of it being "live, not recorded". Like Celibidache. Mahler has a good bio, - it would be too much for this already longish bio to add that he was "liked/accepted/taken serious" only from the 1960s but then very much so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

• I'm promoting this, but the sources do not indicate it was a "scandal"; rather, it was a "furore" or a "near riot". Going with the latter. Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 7 October 2020 (UTC)