Template:Did you know nominations/English invasion of Scotland (1650)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 08:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
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English invasion of Scotland (1650)
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A medal issued to English soldiers who fought at the Battle of Dunbar (1650)
... that during the English invasion of Scotland in 1650, Charles II of Scotland felt his only options were to invade England or surrender?Source: Page 91. Reid, Stuart (2008) [2004]. Dunbar 1650: Cromwell's Most Famous Victory. Oxford: Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-84176-774-1.
Improved to Good Article status by Gog the Mild (talk) and Girth Summit (talk). Nominated by BuySomeApples (talk) at 17:24, 23 August 2021 (UTC).
Interesting story well told, GA, on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I am not happy with the hook, formally because while it's in the lead as a summary, it's not in the prose with the ref right behind it, and also because I'm not sure that it is the most attractive thing to say. If we want to connect to something that happened in August, perhaps, we should do it fast. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- As one of the authors, I'm also unhappy with the hook. '...of Scotland' is somewhat problematic, since the Scots proclaimed him 'King of Britain', which was part of the problem the English had with the situation. I'm also a bit concerned that people working on concurrent DYK and FAC processes may fall over each other in copy editing - this nomination isn't out-of-process, and I thank the nom for the ping here, but I'm not sure I'm over the moon about it. Girth Summit (blether) 21:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- How about you word an ALT with a precise fact, possibly an image. - I recently nominated for a new user (an opera), trying to help, and got that DYK is a perversion of their ambitions. - I'll go to bed soon, so you have a few hours ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, I'm also on my way to bed, but I'll see if I can think of anything for tomorrow. Girth Summit (blether) 21:47, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, how about this:
- ALT1: ... that Thomas Fairfax, lord general of the New Model Army, resigned his commission rather than invade Scotland in 1650?
- ALT2: ... that Oliver Cromwell superseded Thomas Fairfax as lord general of the New Model Army because Fairfax refused to launch a pre-emptive invasion of Scotland in 1650? Source: It's the Austin Woolrych source cited extensively in the article; this fact is also mentioned in many of the other sources. Girth Summit (blether) 17:26, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
- Add - image-wise, there's a nice picture of Cromwell used in the article, which could illustrate the second hook. There are a few possibilities at Thomas Fairfax that might illustrate the first one - I like the second one in the article, a line drawing of him riding a fat horse. Girth Summit (blether) 17:31, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the offers. I formatted them for the ease of the prep builder, hope that's ok. I like ALT1 for brevity, but believe that Cromwell is better known, so worth getting into play. Approving both. I'm not too keen on an image of an individual person when not a biography, but if someone brings one here, I'll look, also at ALTs. An image suggested - no guarantee it will appear - must also be in the article where I see Cromwell but not Fairfax at present. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)- Thanks for the formatting corrections Gerda Arendt - don't know what I was thinking there! I think you're right that Cromwell is by far the better-known figure, and likely to attract more clicks, so Alt2 will most probably be the more successful hook. Take your point about images - would the image linked above, showing a medal given to English soldiers who fought at the battle of Dunbar (with a bust of Cromwell) fit the bill? Girth Summit (blether) 20:12, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
- Fine, noting that ALT2 is preferred. I wouldn't know how to connect the medal to the hooks. Perhaps let this pass without an iimage, - some other editor will be happy. (Half of the noms come with an image, and only 1 in 8 can be taken.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:37, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
- Noting that I'm happy for the image to be ignored - coming up with an image to illustrate an entire military campaign, rather than a portrait of a general or a depiction of a particular battle, is challenging. Thanks for your input Gerda, as always. Girth Summit (blether) 20:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
- How about you word an ALT with a precise fact, possibly an image. - I recently nominated for a new user (an opera), trying to help, and got that DYK is a perversion of their ambitions. - I'll go to bed soon, so you have a few hours ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
- As one of the authors, I'm also unhappy with the hook. '...of Scotland' is somewhat problematic, since the Scots proclaimed him 'King of Britain', which was part of the problem the English had with the situation. I'm also a bit concerned that people working on concurrent DYK and FAC processes may fall over each other in copy editing - this nomination isn't out-of-process, and I thank the nom for the ping here, but I'm not sure I'm over the moon about it. Girth Summit (blether) 21:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
