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Template:Did you know nominations/El Eternauta: tercera parte

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 23:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

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El Eternauta: tercera parte

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  • Source: Daniel Riera (April 27, 2022). "El Eternauta: la inmortal historieta de Héctor Oesterheld, el guionista desaparecido" [The Eternaut: the immortal comic of Héctor Oesterheld, the disappeared writer] (in Spanish). Big Bang News. Retrieved August 29, 2024.
Moved to mainspace by Cambalachero (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 125 past nominations.

Cambalachero (talk) 18:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC).

  • Looking over this now. Will return with a review shortly... —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 19:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - See below.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article is new and long enough. No problems with Earwig. A few small issues, however. Some of the material in the article lack citations. For example, the lead contains two statements that are missing citations to confirm (they're not confirmed anywhere in the article body). The entire "Plot" section is unsourced. The proposed hook itself is interesting, but needs to be rewritten. It states that Héctor Germán Oesterheld himself was a character in his own comic, who was retained after he died. In fact, the cited source states that the character of Germán was "Oesterheld's character" ("el personaje de Oesterheld"), but does not explicitly state that it is him. (Native Spanish speaker here, by the way.) The source makes clear that the character is certainly based on him; the hook needs to be reworded accordingly. Another detail that needs to be ironed out is that the hook unequivocally states that Oesterheld is dead. However, all sources I've read state that he is presumed dead. Even if his death is certain, I'm not sure that it could've been declared official at the time this third part of the comic was published in 1981, while the Dirty War was still ongoing. Otherwise, this is a very interesting article about a subject I previously had zero knowledge of! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

    • I have rewritten the lead. Plot sections of articles about works of fiction do not require citations; it is accepted that the book itself is the source. That Oesterheld included himself as a character within the first two stories he wrote does not need to be referenced either, for similar reasons (he's not even the first author who uses that trick, see here). The hook, however, focuses on the real-life stuff about the character. As for his death, it is correct that his death had never been officially confirmed by the military, but his kidnapping was denounced by the family and other organizations shortly after April 1977, and informed by Cadena Informativa on September 1977. It's all in reference 1. A bit off-topic for this article (better suited for HGO's biography, or the second part), but clearly not a situation that Ediciones Record didn't know. They may be in the dark about the details, but not about their star writer being missing and reported kidnapped by the military. Cambalachero (talk) 01:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
  • @CurryTime7-24: Does the above address your concerns? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 14:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
*Just a moment, please. Looking over the changes now... —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks for everybody's patience. The lead has been improved. No problems with the plot! The ALT still needs to be tweaked. Again, he was, in all likelihood, dead by the time the comic was published. However, he seems never to have been officially declared dead, only presumed dead. It seems like splitting hairs, but it's the kind of thing other editors may potentially bring up once the hook goes live. So best to address it now by modifying the ALT with the qualifier "probably". —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 00:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  • How about ALT1: ... that El Eternauta: tercera parte kept its creator Héctor Germán Oesterheld as a viewpoint character, even though he was disappeared? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cambalachero (talk • contribs) 17:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
    • CurryTime7-24, does ALT1 satisfy your concerns? Is this ready for you to approve it, or is there more to be done? Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
      • Let me look this over right now. Just a moment... —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 19:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC) ALT1 looks good! Thank you everyone for your patience with me. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
        • I'm not entirely sure this hook works. Per the article, Héctor Germán Oesterheld isn't the viewpoint character, his self-insert "Germán" is, so the hook isn't quite accurate to the text. On top of that, the comic is science fiction, not an autobiography or memoir, so it doesn't seem to be that unusual that the character would be kept despite the author being vanished. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
          • In-story, it's abundantly clear that "German" is indeed meant to be Oesterheld himself, not just a character with traits of Oesterheld. See here. Characters may still be used in ongoing series after the creator dies, right, but not author-as-character ones. Compare for example with Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in Marvel Comics, they used to add themselves to the stories quite often (for example, when they tried to get to the private reception of the Fantastic Four wedding, and Nick Fury took them to the street). They rarely did so when other authors took the helm of the comics, and almost never (if at all) after their deaths. Similarily, the cameos of Stan Lee were a tradition of all Marvel films regardless of studios, but that tradition stopped in its tracks when Stan Lee died, even if the current technology would allow to make fake cameos if so desired. Not even Deadpool crossed that line. And that, considering that they died of old age, and not in the controversial (to say the least) circumstances in which Oesteheld died. Cambalachero (talk) 14:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
The hook requires an inline citation for his disappearance, and given that this is well past two months I am timing this out. Sorry.--Launchballer 20:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
@Launchballer and Cambalachero: The source for ALT1 is the same cited for ALT0. It states in the article, as well as in the headline itself that Oesterheld was disappeared. Considering that this review was taken out of my hands, may I submit one last try for a hook? If so, I can have it ready within a few hours. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
I guess. You could just add an end-of-sentence citation to the sentence ending "National Reorganisation Process".--Launchballer 21:10, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
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